LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Schmooley]

If the players arent playing the system that means they arent bought in... ie its a leadership problem. Either way to me it screams of coach that has grown stale and the team isnt responding.

Yea it doesnt make sense. Either you got the wrong players or the wrong coach.
Saying the players cant or dont want to play the system is a big deal and is something they can change instead of forcing losses to act smart.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I might have phrased that wrong....it's not that they aren't playing the system, they are, the issue is they are being lazy within the system and losing that attention to detail, coasting when an extra stride is needed, head on a swivel instead of watching the puck, hard on the stick in the corners/boards etc,

It's something coaches absolutely 100% have to clamp down on, but it's also a fine line, if you harp it on day after day after day after day, it will get tuned out, it's gotta be a message of, let's get back to the fundamentals of our system, fresh start, pay attention to the little things, and then work towards a players pride of perfection, pride of play etc, at least that's how I would be doing it....

OK I got you - and maybe thats the issue. But dont you think its possible the system doesnt fit the personnel? much like their 1-1-2 didnt work for 2 seasons and they finally went to a diamond and had much better success? I think they are too passive for a team that doesn have heavier players. They need to play a speed game not sit back in a 1-3-1.

 

[King'sPawn]

Sure start one.. then when Waste Mgt trades away this years 1st, you can just lock the thread for futher updates

You have no idea the bitterness I've gone through the past few years researching, watching, and analyzing various players from the past couple drafts only to have high picks turned away.

This doesn't even include the countless pre-draft articles I've written in anticipation.

Speaking of which, it's approaching that time of year where I should start with some draft preview articles.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

OK I got you - and maybe thats the issue. But dont you think its possible the system doesnt fit the personnel? much like their 1-1-2 didnt work for 2 seasons and they finally went to a diamond and had much better success? I think they are too passive for a team that doesn have heavier players. They need to play a speed game not sit back in a 1-3-1.

How many times do you think they sit back in a 1-3-1, and WHEN? Those are key issues....

 

[kinghock]

The things said that was interesting to me as objective as I heard them:

TMac:
-He thinks he is playing Kopi less and his minutes are down over 2 minutes last he checked during the road trip and he isn't playing 100% right now injury-wise.
-His conversations with Blake: they try to take emotion out because they are both frustrated, they go over analytics and line combinations, and they believe they can't make many moves player-wise and need to try to get the most out of the player group they already have.
-It's hard to take Spence and Clarke in and out of the lineup as they try to "develop" two young defensemen, he doesn't know if he will continue to swap them over and over, but we re-evaluate it before each game.

Blake:
-Arvy = 2-3 weeks; Lizzo = similar timeline, sometime after all-star break
-Todd is safe for now, thinks he has the buy-in from the team and the system is in place.
-Believes the issue is adhering stricter to the defensive system, and execution of a quality shot once the system gets the puck in the offensive zone.
-Not much going on as far as negotiations with UFA's during the season, he doesn't like messing with contracts during the season as a philosophy.
-Thinks it is important to get the younger players experience and into the rotation, but is limited to roster space but will try to get kids in when he thinks he can.
-PLD thinks he is doing good things when he has the puck, but pivoted issue is the team/system getting the puck on his stick more and it is a team possession thing and being on their game. Pointed to his 5 on 5 production.
-Thinks the first powerplay unit has been good and taking up big minutes.
-Will not consider Byfield at center during the season, will consider it in the future if space is available for that.
-He wants more from Kaliyev and for him to fit in better, he is a work in progress.
-Quick returning to LA should just be him being remembered as the best goalie from the Kings' organization.
-Bill Ranford is less hands-on and adapting to working both with the goaltending coaching staff and scouting staff.
-Funny finish with Helene Elliott roasting Blake a little for answering her question about Kopitar's health that he's not on the injury report.

If he thinks the first powerplay unit has been good he is beyond delusional…

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You have no idea the bitterness I've gone through the past few years researching, watching, and analyzing various players from the past couple drafts only to have high picks turned away.

This doesn't even include the countless pre-draft articles I've written in anticipation.

Speaking of which, it's approaching that time of year where I should start with some draft preview articles.

That's fools gold bud, what I mean by that is you have to consider that the percentage of players that get drafted that make it more than a cup of coffee, is so miniscule, I'd think better energy would be put into other endeavors, keep in mind, this is from a guy, who as a kid, played the old Nintendo Ice Hockey games, 3 on 3, and created box scores....because you can't have a game without a box score, and I don't remember it know, but this was back in 21 team days, they had a board game/trivia game, spent hours playing that as well lol.....so I get the fascination with doing something within the game...but bitterness to me, is saved for....greater feats of betrayal lol.

 

[AbsentMojo]

How many times do you think they sit back in a 1-3-1, and WHEN? Those are key issues....

Whatever they are doing its not working and instead of just focusing on the players maybe the system should be reviewed. I never once heard that as a possibility. Is Todd's system above reproach? Clearly he is very slow to adapt suffering through 2 entire seasons of bottom third special teams heading into the playoffs. PP in 21-22, PK in 22-23

 

[AbsentMojo]

You have no idea the bitterness I've gone through the past few years researching, watching, and analyzing various players from the past couple drafts only to have high picks turned away.

This doesn't even include the countless pre-draft articles I've written in anticipation.

Speaking of which, it's approaching that time of year where I should start with some draft preview articles.

With Blake in desperation mode, you may be in for quite a few more disappointments... but im sure everyone here appreciates the work you put in

 

[LAKings88]

I've tried to remain positive with this team and specific players. They are in the middle of dogfight now. I want to believe they can get in but they have the feel of black hole team. RV will help but he is two weeks out and hasn't played a real game in months. They obviously can't keep having prolonged slumps and losing streaks.

They have never really had elite offensive players since maybe Palffy. Fiala is still a huge necessity in my mind but the rest of the team needs to find their scoring touches. No McDavid's on this team to will them to victory and pull a win out of his ass.

 

[Telos]

If he thinks the first powerplay unit has been good he is beyond delusional…

Yeah, he didn't talk about it much but was using it as a deflection of PLD in that he agreed that they want to see more from him but said he likes what he does when he has the puck, he dodged the negatives about him completely, and said that his 5 on 5 production has remained similar to his previous years but he hinted that he has had less powerplay production and time because the 1st unit has been good and taking up a majority of the powerplay time.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Whatever they are doing its not working and instead of just focusing on the players maybe the system should be reviewed. I never once heard that as a possibility. Is Todd's system above reproach? Clearly he is very slow to adapt suffering through 2 entire seasons of bottom third special teams heading into the playoffs. PP in 21-22, PK in 22-23

But it is working, they shot out to a 16-4 start....so CLEARLY it works, IF they all pay attention to detail, that's kind of the point, if you ignore fundamentals, and are lazy even half step lazy, and you get fixated on the puck, it doesn't matter WHAT kind of system you run, you will lose.

 

[AbsentMojo]

But it is working, they shot out to a 16-4 start....so CLEARLY it works, IF they all pay attention to detail, that's kind of the point, if you ignore fundamentals, and are lazy even half step lazy, and you get fixated on the puck, it doesn't matter WHAT kind of system you run, you will lose.

I think you need to include the possibility that system has been defeated and needs to at least be tweaked. You arent including that in your analysis.. it may be both issues at play.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I think you need to include the possibility that system has been defeated and needs to at least be tweaked. You arent including that in your analysis.. it may be both issues at play.

That's fair, it's hard to tell honestly because how can you tell if it needs to be tweaked, if there's such lack of detail, etc going on, I think they need a stretch where they are tightening that up, and then if they are still getting massively outplayed, you can make that argument for sure,

I just don't see them into a 1-3-1 as much as you guys do, they do it right after line changes on the fly when both teams are changing and they give up that puck, or it's such a clear cut giveway in the offensive zone, etc, it's not like they don't forecheck "normally" or pressure the other team...

 

[funky]

But it is working, they shot out to a 16-4 start....so CLEARLY it works, IF they all pay attention to detail, that's kind of the point, if you ignore fundamentals, and are lazy even half step lazy, and you get fixated on the puck, it doesn't matter WHAT kind of system you run, you will lose.

It clearly worked at that time.

Now I ask is it all on the players regressing

Or

Has the NHL opposition found a way to defeat the system?

 

[Schmooley]

That's fair, it's hard to tell honestly because how can you tell if it needs to be tweaked, if there's such lack of detail, etc going on, I think they need a stretch where they are tightening that up, and then if they are still getting massively outplayed, you can make that argument for sure,

I just don't see them into a 1-3-1 as much as you guys do, they do it right after line changes on the fly when both teams are changing and they give up that puck, or it's such a clear cut giveway in the offensive zone, etc, it's not like they don't forecheck "normally" or pressure the other team...

Yea they do it on line changes and giveaways. But youll notice with a lead they are happy to dump it for a line change and sit back with the lead. Game management with things like short shifts in Todds system make them revert to it more.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

It clearly worked at that time.

Now I ask is it all on the players regressing

Or

Has the NHL opposition found a way to defeat the system?

I'm saying 90% on the players, because I go to again, they do not play 1-3-1 even 50% of the game, it's maybe, 25-30% maybe....they only do it in specific situations.

 

[AbsentMojo]

That's fair, it's hard to tell honestly because how can you tell if it needs to be tweaked, if there's such lack of detail, etc going on, I think they need a stretch where they are tightening that up, and then if they are still getting massively outplayed, you can make that argument for sure,

The reason I have a hunch its the system is because the same personnel had so much success early, and so little recently. I just dont see how all the players have regressed at the same time... and this started before the very dense schedule last 2.5 weeks.

I just don't see them into a 1-3-1 as much as you guys do, they do it right after line changes on the fly when both teams are changing and they give up that puck, or it's such a clear cut giveway in the offensive zone, etc, it's not like they don't forecheck "normally" or pressure the other team...

Well something isnt working there. Even if they do it just 1/3 of the time, that 1/3 of the time they are being passive.. I would at least try to do it less to see if there are some results being more aggressive... its quite possible they will end up back into the high scoring games that they had early - but then you find out what works best for this roster.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yea they do it on line changes and giveaways. But youll notice with a lead they are happy to dump it for a line change and sit back with the lead. Game management with things like short shifts in Todds system make them revert to it more.

Agreed, that's something that they need to change, they do it more often than not, in the 3rd with a lead for sure, I think it's rather do that, then try to force something and give it away, which I get, but can't just sit back the entire time either.

The reason I have a hunch its the system is because the same personnel had so much success early, and so little recently. I just dont see how all the players have regressed at the same time... and this started before the very dense schedule last 2.5 weeks.


Well something isnt working there. Even if they do it just 1/3 of the time, that 1/3 of the time they are being passive.. I would at least try to do it less to see if there are some results being more aggressive... its quite possible they will end up back into the high scoring games that they had early - but then you find out what works best for this roster.

It started when the games became harder for them, and that could be a combination of other teams noticing tendencies etc, for sure....I just think the attention to detail hasn't been there and they've paid for it tremendously, I don't think the roster is broken like half the guys think on here because they hate Blake for something he did 40 years ago.....etc.

 

[AbsentMojo]

It started when the games became harder for them, and that could be a combination of other teams noticing tendencies etc, for sure....I just think the attention to detail hasn't been there and they've paid for it tremendously, I don't think the roster is broken like half the guys think on here because they hate Blake for something he did 40 years ago.....etc.

They seem to struggle in tight checking games like vs Caps, NYI, WPG that come to mind. They also arent good at changing momentum because they dont play the body, or dont know how to shift into a hard checking mode to shift momentum. The 4th line is an energy line not a checking line. To me thats a roster problem.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They seem to struggle in tight checking games like vs Caps, NYI, WPG that come to mind. They also arent good at changing momentum because they dont play the body, or dont know how to shift into a hard checking mode to shift momentum. The 4th line is an energy line not a checking line. To me thats a roster problem.

Yea, I get that, your "checkers" for the most part consist of Grundstrom, Lizotte as good as that does, and when pissed off Kempe.....other than that there's not a lot of bodies thrown....I agree, that might be a roster issue I didn't see.....

 

[The Butcher]

Blake and the beach boys have bet the farm on McClellan. If the results don't change over the next month the situation becomes a straightforward case of poor investment and even AEG can’t ignore the numbers for long. The strategy of spending more than the salary cap with the most expensive coach in the league when you're not winning is the fast track to disaster. It’s a crunch moment for Blake and the team to deliver results or face the pitchforks.

 

[BaileyFan]

Blake and the beach boys have bet the farm on McClellan. If the results don't change over the next month the situation becomes a straightforward case of poor investment and even AEG can’t ignore the numbers for long. The strategy of spending more than the salary cap with the most expensive coach in the league when you're not winning is the fast track to disaster. It’s a crunch moment for Blake and the team to deliver results or face the pitchforks.

Idk, I can easily see a scenario where Blake gets to make another coaching hire after the season and Luc spins some BS like “well Stevens doesn’t count because we needed continuity from the previous coach, and Desjardins was just there to help our players get through a difficult season, so we see this as Blakey’s 2nd REAL hire.”

 

[Herby]

Agreed, that's something that they need to change, they do it more often than not, in the 3rd with a lead for sure, I think it's rather do that, then try to force something and give it away, which I get, but can't just sit back the entire time either.



It started when the games became harder for them, and that could be a combination of other teams noticing tendencies etc, for sure....I just think the attention to detail hasn't been there and they've paid for it tremendously, I don't think the roster is broken like half the guys think on here because they hate Blake for something he did 40 years ago.....etc.

This is ridiculous, people can separate the two. People would be able to give Blake credit if he did even a passable job as an executive.

He has been GM of this team for 7 seasons. What are the positives?

Here I'll go with the misses.

0 playoff series victories
0 division titles
0 division runner-ups
3 disappointing coaching hires
no definitive franchise cornerstone drafted, yet still ended the rebuild
traded arguably the best player he's drafted
results wise probably the most disappointing draft pick in team history
results and cap wise probably the most disappointing trade in decades
no goaltending
up against the cap
traded multiple 1st rounders
lost a 1st rounder to waivers

I've tried to remain positive with this team and specific players. They are in the middle of dogfight now. I want to believe they can get in but they have the feel of black hole team. RV will help but he is two weeks out and hasn't played a real game in months. They obviously can't keep having prolonged slumps and losing streaks.

They have never really had elite offensive players since maybe Palffy. Fiala is still a huge necessity in my mind but the rest of the team needs to find their scoring touches. No McDavid's on this team to will them to victory and pull a win out of his ass.

It's hard to win without stars, the Blues are the only cup winner in recent memory to win without a clear cut top 15 player on their roster.

The Kings had 2 star players and they just got old, any logical thinking manager would realize this, and also realize that none of his high pick centers were going to be franchise cornerstones. Had the Kings continued on their rebuild path they would have had high picks in 2022 and 2023, with 2023 in particular being the year where you may have been able to find your next Kopitar at the top of the draft. Instead we signed Danault and traded a future star defenseman and a 1st for Fiala and a one-way trip back to the black hole of the early 2000's. Nothing against either of those guys, especially Danault who is a great player who seems like he is also a high character guy, he was just not the type of player the Kings should have been targeting at that point.

 

[bland]

I think you need to include the possibility that system has been defeated and needs to at least be tweaked. You arent including that in your analysis.. it may be both issues at play.

The reason the 1-3-1 isn't a prominent system is that you can beat it by commitment to dump ins and by having individual takent break the lines. Edmonton has no trouble with it. Good teams usually don't. Teams with a heavy forecheck who can grind away may not put up sexy numbers against it, but they can establish their tone as the course of action.

The 1-3-1 works against teams that try to play the skill game but don't have puck carriers to back off the line or teams that get frustrated and don't dump and chase efficiently. You just don't see those kinds of teams in the playoffs.

There is a time and a place for it. When you need to kill a game and want to play some low event hockey. Lots of chances for that. But man, just lazily drifting back into it when its scoreless, that's not working.

 

[riznat]

This team is trash