LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[AbsentMojo]

Only the posters that make no sense.....and even then, don't really like it, or dislike it, it just....is.

You realize i never would or expect anyone to ask those questions in reality - we are just goofing around putting out questions we would ask if we could get a straight answer. But back to more reality. I do think its strange that Bergovin is there.. If I was RB id be a little miffed having a former GM just floating around the org and wondering if maybe he'll take my job. I think that would be a normal response... esp since it seems there is a very French Canadian theme to Luc's recent hires Bergovin, Rheume, PLD

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

You realize i never would or expect anyone to ask those questions in reality - we are just goofing around putting out questions we would ask if we could get a straight answer. But back to more reality. I do think its strange that Bergovin is there.. If I was RB id be a little miffed having a former GM just floating around the org and wondering if maybe he'll take my job. I think that would be a normal response... esp since it seems there is a very French Canadian theme to Luc's recent hires Bergovin, Rheume, PLD

Rheaume has been around the organization for decades....I remember when I lived back there, she was around....maybe not in any official capacity, but that's 20 years in the making there,

Bergerivin is a strange hire no doubt, be interesting to get more information on his role etc.

As far as realize/expect questions, yea, but that wasn't what I was referencing, I was referencing the genius who apparently thought I was telling everyone to shut up and not ask questions....like I told him, reading comprehension for the win,

 

[tny760]

i'll take that as a no on the self-reflection

not surprised

 

[bland]

With Bjornfot, Vilardi, Kupari and the firsts traded in the Fiala and Gavrikov deals, the Kings have an even ratio of lost first rounders (5) to playoff wins (5) since McLellan was hired.

That's shocking ineptitude.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

With Bjornfot, Vilardi, Kupari and the firsts traded in the Fiala and Gavrikov deals, the Kings have an even ratio of lost first rounders (5) to playoff wins (5) since McLellan was hired.

That's shocking ineptitude.

Well if you are going to count Vilardi, Kupari and Bjornfoot, as losing 1sts, then you have to include Fiala and PLD as adding 1sts, which....I know....doesn't make your point NEARYL as well......

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Negative first round picks lost to playoff game wins ratio is my new favorite LA Kings stat.

 

[King'sPawn]

The problem is, even if they do answer these questions, you guys won't believe what they say...it's a moot point.

There are still good reasons. I can't imagine management is happy with the current state. They have stakeholders to answer to, and calling them on it is important.

Moreover, even if we/they don't believe them, it's also important to gauge how they answer.

It's like the combine, or a job interview. It's not about the answer but how they think and how they respond.

 

[Bandit]

Possibly some good news:



Literally anything would be better than the absolute nightmare that is Bally Sports' streaming service. Absolutely the worst service by every measure. Should not exist.

Yeah great. We can watch games on Amazon and for only and extra $15 bucks a month you can watch them without ads covering 80% of the screen.

Greedy f***s.

 

[kilowatt]

Yeah great. We can watch games on Amazon and for only and extra $15 bucks a month you can watch them without ads covering 80% of the screen.

Greedy f***s.

That this even is potentially good news just speaks volumes about how truly terrible the current state of hockey broadcasting is.

 

[Sol]

Wasn’t there a conference today…

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Wasn’t there a conference today…

Thursday

 

[bland]

Negative first round picks lost to playoff game wins ratio is my new favorite LA Kings stat.

The 2011-12 Cup winning roster only cost the Kings 2 first rounders, for Penner and Carter. Hell, even Gaborik didn't cost a first two years later. Then Sekera and Lucic... Deano spent 4 total to win two Cups and is STILL blasted for the last 2.

And Blake has spent 5 on two first round losses.

 

[All The Kings Men]

The 2011-12 Cup winning roster only cost the Kings 2 first rounders, for Penner and Carter. Hell, even Gaborik didn't cost a first two years later. Then Sekera and Lucic... Deano spent 4 total to win two Cups and is STILL blasted for the last 2.

And Blake has spent 5 on two first round losses.

This post made me go back and look at the trade record and I'm just now realizing that the Sekera trade was the 2016 1st rounder.

Which means when they traded

Martin Jones (who could have been traded for a 1st)
Colin Miller (a RHD who has had himself a pretty decent 9 year career since the trade)
the 2015 1st rounder

They did so knowing they had no first round pick in 2016.

It's neither here not there it just makes the trade a little bit worse in my eyes.

 

[Maynard]

Wasn’t there a conference today…

It’s tomorrow and it’s gonna be fun in here.

 

[bland]

This post made me go back and look at the trade record and I'm just now realizing that the Sekera trade was the 2016 1st rounder.

Which means when they traded

Martin Jones (who could have been traded for a 1st)
Colin Miller (a RHD who has had himself a pretty decent 9 year career since the trade)
the 2015 1st rounder

They did so knowing they had no first round pick in 2016.

It's neither here not there it just makes the trade a little bit worse in my eyes.

I didn't really think much about it until I started looking into what it cost to assemble that roster, and man, it was a master class. 2nds for Richards, Gaborik, Williams, Regehr - other drafted assets as well.

Shit, I should have included Schenn, so that's 5 for Dean.

 

[All The Kings Men]

I didn't really think much about it until I started looking into what it cost to assemble that roster, and man, it was a master class. 2nds for Richards, Gaborik, Williams, Regehr - other drafted assets as well.

Shit, I should have included Schenn, so that's 5 for Dean.

I was originally looking because trading away a 1st round pick before you get it isn't the ONLY way to shoot yourself in the foot.

The organization by it's own admission mishandled the Hickey pick and I'm sure we're all well familiar with the Teubert and Forbort lore.

All in all a tidy bit of business by Lombardi to bring the Cup to LA not once but twice.

but man I hate that Martin Jones trade so much

 

[kingsfan28]

Possibly some good news:



Literally anything would be better than the absolute nightmare that is Bally Sports' streaming service. Absolutely the worst service by every measure. Should not exist.

I couldn't even make it through the free trial, using 3 different streaming devices. Same crappy results. Amazon would be great.

 

[kingsfan28]

I was originally looking because trading away a 1st round pick before you get it isn't the ONLY way to shoot yourself in the foot.

The organization by it's own admission mishandled the Hickey pick and I'm sure we're all well familiar with the Teubert and Forbort lore.

All in all a tidy bit of business by Lombardi to bring the Cup to LA not once but twice.

but man I hate that Martin Jones trade so much

The Jones trade and the Cernak trade were the worst. Seriously, DL couldn't have found anyone else to move Jones to without worry about them flipping him back to SJ?

 

[Herby]

I was originally looking because trading away a 1st round pick before you get it isn't the ONLY way to shoot yourself in the foot.

The organization by it's own admission mishandled the Hickey pick and I'm sure we're all well familiar with the Teubert and Forbort lore.

All in all a tidy bit of business by Lombardi to bring the Cup to LA not once but twice.

but man I hate that Martin Jones trade so much

You have room to make mistakes like Teubert, Hickey and Forbort when the organization drafts three Hall of Fame players over a three calendar year period, two in the same draft.

Some of these mistakes that Blake has made with the Kings would be pretty minor in the big picture if we had for example drafted Quinn Hughes, Elias Pettersson and Jake Oetinger between 2017 and 2020.

The biggest difference between that generation and this one was the quality of players they drafted, it's not even close.

 

[All The Kings Men]

The Jones trade and the Cernak trade were the worst. Seriously, DL couldn't have found anyone else to move Jones to without worry about them flipping him back to SJ?

I don't care about the Sekera trade. It wasn't a great trade but bad trades happen.

I care about the opportunity cost of the Jones trade because the impact spirals forward in endless ways.

Jones could have been moved for assets.
Miller could have been moved for assets.
The 1st round pick could have turned into a player or been moved for multiple assets.
Lucic contract meant less flexibility under the cap.

I don't know if it's true but it's been suggested that the Lucic contract meant that there wasn't room for Justin Williams and that is why Williams departed. I don't know if I believe that fully but Lucic was yet another player brought in with the expectation of playing on the top line that never happened further limiting flexibility.

Lucic was perfectly fine as a member of the Kings and if you wanted to argue that it was worth a swing to bring in a player like Lucic to try and win the Cup for a third time in five years... well we all know what bland would say about it but I understand it to a degree.

But the cost wasn't a swing... it was four swings in one and each swing limited flexibility and 3 of the 4 swings had impact on the future.

 

[kingsfan28]

Mock roster without Faber and Vilardi trades?

Byfield-Kopitar-Kempe
Arvidsson-Danault-Moore
Laferriere or Iaffalo (if they couldn't move him)-ROR/Duchene/Bjugstad-Vilardi
Grunstrom-Lizotte-Kupari/Lewis

Doughty (assuming he stayed)-Anderson
Faber-Gravikov
Englund-Spence

Kings could have moved Roy, since Faber is basically Roy 2.0. They would also have about 4 million in Cap space if they moved AI.

Leaving out the fantasy FA centers, not a single guy on that roster [ outside Kopitar and maybe Juice] has put anything close to what Fiala has, mistakes and all. 109 points in 1 1/2 seasons. Valardi [ 41 points last year] is the closest at 61 points, but missed 20 games last year and another 17 this year. For a team that needed scoring in general, where does that 72 points come from? That means a trade, right...which means moving more assets. You can't keep all 3 young RHD, there's no room. It's a pretty big ask to think you could move Roy and AI just for picks, with no salary coming back. Even ARZ, the boneyard of dead contract wouldn't do it.

 

[King'sPawn]

I don't care about the Sekera trade. It wasn't a great trade but bad trades happen.

I care about the opportunity cost of the Jones trade because the impact spirals forward in endless ways.

Jones could have been moved for assets.
Miller could have been moved for assets.
The 1st round pick could have turned into a player or been moved for multiple assets.
Lucic contract meant less flexibility under the cap.

I don't know if it's true but it's been suggested that the Lucic contract meant that there wasn't room for Justin Williams and that is why Williams departed. I don't know if I believe that fully but Lucic was yet another player brought in with the expectation of playing on the top line that never happened further limiting flexibility.

Lucic was perfectly fine as a member of the Kings and if you wanted to argue that it was worth a swing to bring in a player like Lucic to try and win the Cup for a third time in five years... well we all know what bland would say about it but I understand it to a degree.

But the cost wasn't a swing... it was four swings in one and each swing limited flexibility and 3 of the 4 swings had impact on the future.

I remember hearing that Williams was going back home anyway, though now I don't remember the source. Lucic was their "consolation prize" though ultimately you know better.

Wasn't a fan of the Lucic, Cernak, and Sekera trades. I get why they were done, but I thought they were the wrong moves.

 

[kingsfan28]

I don't care about the Sekera trade. It wasn't a great trade but bad trades happen.

I care about the opportunity cost of the Jones trade because the impact spirals forward in endless ways.

Jones could have been moved for assets.
Miller could have been moved for assets.
The 1st round pick could have turned into a player or been moved for multiple assets.
Lucic contract meant less flexibility under the cap.

I don't know if it's true but it's been suggested that the Lucic contract meant that there wasn't room for Justin Williams and that is why Williams departed. I don't know if I believe that fully but Lucic was yet another player brought in with the expectation of playing on the top line that never happened further limiting flexibility.

Lucic was perfectly fine as a member of the Kings and if you wanted to argue that it was worth a swing to bring in a player like Lucic to try and win the Cup for a third time in five years... well we all know what bland would say about it but I understand it to a degree.

But the cost wasn't a swing... it was four swings in one and each swing limited flexibility and 3 of the 4 swings had impact on the future.

Yeah, and in the ultimate dick punch, Jones went 4-0 vs the Kings that year, then knocked them out of the playoffs . Lucic went golfing . It was just horrible asset management.

 

[bland]

I remember hearing that Williams was going back home anyway, though now I don't remember the source. Lucic was their "consolation prize" though ultimately you know better.

Wasn't a fan of the Lucic, Cernak, and Sekera trades. I get why they were done, but I thought they were the wrong moves.

I had heard tell that Williams was willing to stay but required a contract similar to Brown's.

Williams and Frolov are far and away my favorite Kings post-Gretzky era, but I completely understood why they had to be moved on.

 

[bland]

I don't care about the Sekera trade. It wasn't a great trade but bad trades happen.

I care about the opportunity cost of the Jones trade because the impact spirals forward in endless ways.

Jones could have been moved for assets.
Miller could have been moved for assets.
The 1st round pick could have turned into a player or been moved for multiple assets.
Lucic contract meant less flexibility under the cap.

I don't know if it's true but it's been suggested that the Lucic contract meant that there wasn't room for Justin Williams and that is why Williams departed. I don't know if I believe that fully but Lucic was yet another player brought in with the expectation of playing on the top line that never happened further limiting flexibility.

Lucic was perfectly fine as a member of the Kings and if you wanted to argue that it was worth a swing to bring in a player like Lucic to try and win the Cup for a third time in five years... well we all know what bland would say about it but I understand it to a degree.

But the cost wasn't a swing... it was four swings in one and each swing limited flexibility and 3 of the 4 swings had impact on the future.

Sekera was a perfect fit for the Kings style of play, but got hurt early and was never really indoctrinated into the team. The Kings had just won their famous cockroach Cup, and in that case it was a worthwhile risk that didn't pan out, whether the team ultimately had the stamina for another run in them or not.

The Lucic deal, gadzooks what a desperate grab. They didn't have any reasonable chance of fitting him under the cap the following summer. They didn't have the expiring contracts to provide any room, and move would have required losing a quality player off of the already weakened roster.

Taking a desperate swing is always bad business, and that deal proved that adding the right player at the wrong time is worse than doing nothing at all.