LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[chris kontos]

How about a drouin for kaliyev deal?

 

[Nasti]

To have a better mix of offensive and defensive defensemen, the Kings should trade Roy and slot Clarke in his place. But we all know that’ll never happen.

 

[dman3474]

So they waived Toby and called up Clarke, they still have one more roster spot open once toby clears or gets claimed. Who else comes up for the road trip? Fagemo? Moverare? Turc, or is he still injured?

I do hope the D pairs shake out as Gavrikov-Clarke & Spence-Roy, and that it isn't a complete trainwreck!

 

[funky]

To have a better mix of offensive and defensive defensemen, the Kings should trade Roy and slot Clarke in his place. But we all know that’ll never happen.

I would be okay with that if we could be guaranteed that the PK wouldn’t suffer.

 

[dman3474]

I would be okay with that if we could be guaranteed that the PK wouldn’t suffer.

Agreed! Spence and Clarke don't PK so we would be looking at a Gavrikov-Englund 2nd PK pair

 

[funky]

Agreed! Spence and Clarke don't PK so we would be looking at a Gavrikov-Englund 2nd PK pair

And that worries me.

 

[theMajor]

To have a better mix of offensive and defensive defensemen, the Kings should trade Roy and slot Clarke in his place. But we all know that’ll never happen.

no way, Roy has been outstanding

 

[Schrute farms]

looking at the whole we don't develop prospects properly narrative. Teams miss on picks, even 1st rounders. Some drafts are deeper then others. Lets look at the 2019 draft and who was picked in the range Bjornfot was available in:

View attachment 795217

Games played is the second column Hoglander, Kaliyev, and Tomiasino lead the way in games played followed by Bjornfot then McMicheal. Kaliyev is the leading point getter at 70 and he is currently sitting on the sidelines.

I'm going to pat myself on the back because i was 100% pounding the table for them to take Tomasino at #22.

Granted, the ONLY scouting/knowledge of the guy (for which made me so desire him as our selection) was his Italian sounding last name. I'm still taking the W on that one though

 

[Johnny Utah]

The Lizotte experiment is bothering me - he is so small and against bigger or faster teams pretty invisible.

I am biding my time until my boy Helenius takes over the 4C - he has been hot recently and had a decent fight at the end of the game vs Henderson on NYE. He took on Geertsen.

I would love to see players like Englund and Helenius against Edmonton in the playoffs and see if Nurse, Kane and Desharnais still try and bully us.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Jesus Christ, I honestly don't know how some of you people aren't multi millionaires the forecasting you guys have got going on, people would pay MILLIONS for that type of knowledge.......

nepotism my friend, nepotism

 

[lumbergh]

if you suggest it's good drafting, then it's terrible development and asset management, given you're repeatedly benching these guys and/or dicking them around and losing them for nothing, even an equivalent pick is better than waivers, especially if the guy is clearly not in your plans.

Or, if it's bad drafting, you'll have to admit that. But you've just shown me it's good drafting and I've long agreed with that, just terrible development and deployment.

And you can't suggest it's awesome management given the team is essentially in the exact same spot they were last year only with fewer assets and less cap flexibility and the players we gave away are having massive success with their new teams, including one who has vaulted into leading the conference largely due to our former players.

Maybe you should just lower your expectations that every 1st and 2nd round pick should make it to the NHL and excel if handled in just the right way. These are human beings with capabilities and foibles, not just assets. No team will ever meet all these expectations for long stretches of time. You can only hope that some fraction of these prospects will become difference-makers at the NHL level at the same time.

I do hope the D pairs shake out as Gavrikov-Clarke & Spence-Roy, and that it isn't a complete trainwreck!

I like Clarke-Roy and Gavrikov-Spence myself, but either way, fingers crossed.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Maybe you should just lower your expectations that every 1st and 2nd round pick should make it to the NHL and excel if handled in just the right way. These are human beings with capabilities and foibles, not just assets. No team will ever meet all these expectations for long stretches of time. You can only hope that some fraction of these prospects will become difference-makers at the NHL level at the same time.


I like Clarke-Roy and Gavrikov-Spence myself, but either way, fingers crossed.

That should be the motto of this organization.

I don't think I'm asking too much, and over the years I've proven to be extremely forgiving of this org as a whole, but now there's a mountain of evidence that the drafting is good-to-great but the development and deployment is dog shit. I don't think they're going to handle everyone in 'just the right way' and of course there's a major human element at play, but now there are patterns that are not good. I'm not going to do it again, but this front office has a long history of guys excelling elsewhere (relative to role of course) after being mishandled here. You can search my post history if you don't believe it. This year's are the icing on the cake.

Edit: hell the entire 2019 draft for this org is like a case in point, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Spence, Parik...

 

[Nasti]

no way, Roy has been outstanding

I never said he’s been bad.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

On the silver lining side, I don't think Clarke ever goes back down, unless they're allergic to winning.

 

[Nasti]

On the silver lining side, I don't think Clarke ever goes back down, unless they're allergic to winning.

He’ll go back down and you will like it.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings trying to turn Kaliyev et. al. into good little checkers are like Mr. Burns with Mattingly's sideburns

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

But again, this is all a sidenote. Clarke callup is immense for a lot of reasons. It's exciting, and he's doing things no dman has done before. Shot in the arm.

But it's a distraction from the main problem, Kings players getting to the net vs. opponents who actually dig in and check. you don't go shake up arguably the best D in the league because the guys you're paying high prices for--assets AND money--are unable to score more than 2 goals unless it's a pond hockey lottery team.

Clarke will help the D and PP score, sure. But seems like empty calories when the main issues are still there. I will say Blake is absolutely f***in excellent at putting pretty new wallpaper up when someone puts a hole in the drywall instead of fixing it.

 

[AbsentMojo]

On the silver lining side, I don't think Clarke ever goes back down, unless they're allergic to winning.

Do u think this is going to be a platoon with Spence? Englund seems to be needed at least for his pugilistic capabilities

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Do u think this is going to be a platoon with Spence? Englund seems to be needed at least for his pugilistic capabilities

I have no clue what they're going to do but TM quotes suggest there will be 4RD at one point or another

again, gonna go trash the whole thing instead of addressing the main issue and elephant in the room

They'd rather put on a f***ing puppet show by showing off clarke

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

That should be the motto of this organization.

I don't think I'm asking too much, and over the years I've proven to be extremely forgiving of this org as a whole, but now there's a mountain of evidence that the drafting is good-to-great but the development and deployment is dog shit. I don't think they're going to handle everyone in 'just the right way' and of course there's a major human element at play, but now there are patterns that are not good. I'm not going to do it again, but this front office has a long history of guys excelling elsewhere (relative to role of course) after being mishandled here. You can search my post history if you don't believe it. This year's are the icing on the cake.

Edit: hell the entire 2019 draft for this org is like a case in point, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Spence, Parik...

Sure, let's use 2019

Let's just do Western Teams, because time is short, for me at least

Anaheim - Zegras, Tracey, LaCombe, Thrun, Janice, Francis, Hill rounds it out - 254 total NHL games played 4 players totaled that
Calgary - Pelletier, Nikolaev, Fuek, Nodler, Wolf, - 33 NHL games played - 2 players totaled that
Chicago - Dach, Vlasic, Teply, Saarela, Basse, Moberg - 264 games played - 2 players totaled that
Colorado - Byram, Newhook, Helleson, Steinburg, Beaucage, Mutala, Burzen, Miner - 324 games played - 3 players totaled that
Dallas - Harley, Sjolund, Porco, Brinkman - 73 games played - 1 player
Edmonton - Broberg, Lavoie, Konovalov, Bjumel, Mazura, Denezhkin - 92 games played - 3 players
Los Angeles - Turcotte, Bjornfoot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Parik, Spence, Nouisanen, Doyle, Lee - 376 games played - 5 players totaled that
Minnesota - Boldy, Firstov, Jones, Beckman, Guskov, Warren, Nesterenko, Lindburg - 178 games played - 3 players
Nashville - Tomasino, Afaneyev, Cambell, Del Gazio, Chystakov, Haider, Walter, Parssinen - 240 games played - 4 players
Phoenix - Soderstom, Fairanucci, Maccelli, Daryin, Raty, Savunov, Romano, Berkvist, Nussbauer - 173 games played - 2 players
San Jose - Kniayez, Hamaliuk, Spiridonov, Ibragimov, Hataka - 10 games played - 2 players
St. Louis - Alexandrov, Ellis, Washkurak, Zhevenko, Michel - 38 games played - 1 player
Vegas - Krebs, Korzack, Dorofeyev, Ahac, Donovan, Saville, Kallionkelli, Primeau - 235 games played - 3 players
Vancouver - Podkolozin, Hoglander, Keppen Focht, Silovs, Plasec, Malone, Mcdonough, Costmar - 305 games played - 4 players
Winnipeg - Heinola, Lundmark, Nikkanen, Blaisdell, Neaton - 35 games played, 1 player

Yea.....most players played in the NHL..most games played in the NHL, most games played by players STILL on the same team that drafted them (see Dach, Krebs, etc)

Draw your own conclusions....but seems like there "development" is on par with the Western Conference.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I have no clue what they're going to do but TM quotes suggest there will be 4RD at one point or another

again, gonna go trash the whole thing instead of addressing the main issue and elephant in the room

They'd rather put on a f***ing puppet show by showing off clarke

Im OK with this lever pull. Its a great excuse to bring in Clarke and get him working with the group in practice and some games. I hope they have the courage to get him onto PP1.. i know thats a pipe dream... but that would add a whole new dimension vs pass w Kopi.

 

[King'sPawn]

Pure speculation on my part, but I figure Clarke will be playing in Spence's spot, and Spence will get some sitting time.

Now, maybe to offset things, they'll play Clarke with Gavrikov (and put him on the powerplay) while putting Roy with Englund (and giving him PK time). That way, defensive responsibilities aren't ever hoisted on Clarke and Englund.

 

[yankeeking]

Agreed! Spence and Clarke don't PK so we would be looking at a Gavrikov-Englund 2nd PK pair

Clatke has been PKing in ontario last few game , not sure how long only been to games lately, and was consistently in posistion and moving pucks very well but with that said doing it at the next level is alot to ask

 

[BigKing]

You don't want to whiff on the Bjornfot pick and, for me, the Kaliyev pick is still a very good one and he has proven that he should have been taken before Bjornfot. Again, Blake was "right" but he never should have risked being wrong: Kaliyev was always the better prospect and this group that claims to not draft based on need did exactly that with Bjornfot. That said, guys taken 20th and later bust all the time and the players taken around Bjornfot aren't world beaters.

So what does that mean? The same as it always has: the Turcotte pick and subsequent handling of him as a prospect and a tradeable asset is the problem with 2019.

He is DL's Hickey pick except that DL also selected Simmonds, Martinez and King in the 2007 draft. We have to hope that Kaliyev puts it together--in LA--and Spence proves to be legit because the rest of the draft doesn't look to have it. I feel good about the latter but not sure about the former: primarily the "in LA" part.

Anyways, "TOP RATED PROSPECT POOL! BLAKE IS A GENIUS". Have to see how it actually shakes out: every prospect pool looks good when you have multiple high picks if all you do is go off of Central Scouting. They are stocks and not all of them should be held until they are pennies. Unfortunately, we have to question if Blake has done a good job of selling and holding the right ones. He completely blew it with Turcotte and now you have the other 1st round pick from that year on waivers. What does he do with Turcotte when he is waiver eligible? Pretty sure the answer is fulfilling his destiny to complete the Hickey comparison.

As for Clarke, you can see him at the NHL level while sitting Spence. If you really like it, you can feel more comfortable moving Roy in a package.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Jesus Christ, I honestly don't know how some of you people aren't multi millionaires the forecasting you guys have got going on, people would pay MILLIONS for that type of knowledge.......

Who said some of us are not?