LA KINGS 2023/4 Regular season discussion

[Omni Owl]

TMac was the coach for SJ when we came back 0-3 in 2014 correct? I really feel like we need a coaching change, ala Oilers.

I knew we were f***ed last night when I saw that brutal lineup.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Wow looking back at that 2019 draft - besides the top 15 picks, nothing really panned out for anyone.

Newhook and Krebs aren't exactly world beaters and they were 16 and 17.

 

[funky]

For the third time--it's not about this. It's about depreciating a first rounder into a waiver and getting nothing back for it simply because you suck ass at development and deployment. And overly focusing on Toby here is missing the forest for the trees--that this keeps happening and the reason I and some others are so annoyed about it is this is the conversation each time. "well, walker didn't fit here. Well, Durzi didn't fit here. Well, Faber didn't fit here. Well, Iafallo didn't fit here. Well, Vilardi didn't fit here." Like, how many times do you need to say it before realizing where the problem is?

They're not all going to make it and they're not all going to have spots on this team. But it would be nice to not consistently give other teams--especially conference opponents--free, strong middle roster options for their competitive teams for free. Especially when the net result is those teams get better and we stay the same.

So you are upset with the Vilardi trade and possibly the Faber trade? Just wait, you said free players so they don’t qualify.

Who have we given up that has hurt us so bad. Jones and Cernak were DL’s give aways. Jones hurts us ever time.

There is Durzi, but he was traded for a second and most of us wanted him shot into the sun ten times a game.

Grans was traded to get rid of Peterson. If you want to be pissed that contract extension is something that would qualify. But again traded pick, not waived, not in NHl yet.

So I go all the way back to the 15 draft - pre Blake GM and there is Amadio ? And McKeown?

Who am I missing that we gave away that is hurting us?

Over that time he has also pillaged away Moore, Grundstrum and Gavrikov which took major roles in the team and signed Danault to a great contract then re-signed Kempe, Mikey and Moore to what look like sweetheart deals.

He gambled on Fiala but he is being paid fairly.

I get your pissed at the PLD trade and extension and I hated the Peterson extension but that’s a different topic.

Just wondering who I am missing that we drafted high, gave away for free and is a strong middle option on a conference foe? Amadio? It is very late here so I must be missing someone else? Help me out.

 

[tny760]

Cernak

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So you are upset with the Vilardi trade and possibly the Faber trade? Just wait, you said free players so they don’t qualify.

Who have we given up that has hurt us so bad. Jones and Cernak were DL’s give aways. Jones hurts us ever time.

There is Durzi, but he was traded for a second and most of us wanted him shot into the sun ten times a game.

Grans was traded to get rid of Peterson. If you want to be pissed that contract extension is something that would qualify. But again traded pick, not waived, not in NHl yet.

So I go all the way back to the 15 draft - pre Blake GM and there is Amadio ? And McKeown?

Who am I missing that we gave away that is hurting us?

Over that time he has also pillaged away Moore, Grundstrum and Gavrikov which took major roles in the team and signed Danault to a great contract then re-signed Kempe, Mikey and Moore to what look like sweetheart deals.

He gambled on Fiala but he is being paid fairly.

I get your pissed at the PLD trade and extension and I hated the Peterson extension but that’s a different topic.

Just wondering who I am missing that we drafted high, gave away for free and is a strong middle option on a conference foe? Amadio? It is very late here so I must be missing someone else? Help me out.

I'm not going to say it for a fourth time. You can just re-read my last post.

Or don't, because you seem much more interested in excusing every one of Blake's moves instead of seeing what I'm saying.

Edit: actually to address something else you say so I don't look like I'm just being a hater--I've said also several times that I generally have zero issue with their pro scouting--they seem mostly great at identifying players in lesser roles on other teams and using them appropriately here. That's why PLD is a rare misjudge there and much more surprising. But they're so, so good at doing it when scouting other teams--why are they so godawful at doing it on ours? It's maddening.

 

[kingsfan28]

For the third time--it's not about this. It's about depreciating a first rounder into a waiver and getting nothing back for it simply because you suck ass at development and deployment. And overly focusing on Toby here is missing the forest for the trees--that this keeps happening and the reason I and some others are so annoyed about it is this is the conversation each time. "well, walker didn't fit here. Well, Durzi didn't fit here. Well, Faber didn't fit here. Well, Iafallo didn't fit here. Well, Vilardi didn't fit here." Like, how many times do you need to say it before realizing where the problem is? Literally everyone not named Petersen is off playing a major role on a competitive team and they were all moved for less than their value.

They're not all going to make it and they're not all going to have spots on this team. But it would be nice to not consistently give other teams--especially conference opponents--free, strong middle roster options for their competitive teams for free. Especially when the net result is those teams get better and we stay the same.

All in all it's just a masterclass in asset depreciation via bad deployment and development. It's finding a 100 dollar bill and instead of buying a candybar for a buck spending 50 on it just because you can.

I don't dig the waiving thing either, but some point you have to look past the development side and place it on the player for his own depreciation, especially 1st rounders . This is the same for any sport. The NFL is litered who high drafted QB's who busted out. You can't squarely put it on the org when the guy you're trying to get better, either doesn't have it in him [drive] or was never as good as his draft ranking said he was. I think this is where TB falls, and they held on to him hoping to get better, even in the AHL ,then nothing happened. TB btw, was also developed by the same guys as Anderson, Roy, Spence Mov, Clarke and others. All have gotten better since their draft, you can at least admit to that.

 

[kingsfan28]

So you are upset with the Vilardi trade and possibly the Faber trade? Just wait, you said free players so they don’t qualify.

Who have we given up that has hurt us so bad. Jones and Cernak were DL’s give aways. Jones hurts us ever time.

There is Durzi, but he was traded for a second and most of us wanted him shot into the sun ten times a game.

Grans was traded to get rid of Peterson. If you want to be pissed that contract extension is something that would qualify. But again traded pick, not waived, not in NHl yet.

So I go all the way back to the 15 draft - pre Blake GM and there is Amadio ? And McKeown?

Who am I missing that we gave away that is hurting us?

Over that time he has also pillaged away Moore, Grundstrum and Gavrikov which took major roles in the team and signed Danault to a great contract then re-signed Kempe, Mikey and Moore to what look like sweetheart deals.

He gambled on Fiala but he is being paid fairly.

I get your pissed at the PLD trade and extension and I hated the Peterson extension but that’s a different topic.

Just wondering who I am missing that we drafted high, gave away for free and is a strong middle option on a conference foe? Amadio? It is very late here so I must be missing someone else? Help me out.

For reference, Amidio was waived by the Kings , Leafs and Sens who were so bad he couldn't land a spot there either. Vegas took a gamble and found a niche spot on the 4th line, and had some success in the playoffs. Now some are like " why'd we give him away, blah blah blah" He was not that player here or anywhere else, and lost his job in LA to lizzo. Lizzo has still had a better career and in fewer games. Only adv is he's 3" taller.

 

[Seattle King]

I do think it bears mentioning that Bustfield has 10 goals and the player all Senators fans have been telling us ad nauseum is vastly superior in every way, Tim Stuztle, has 7 goals.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I don't dig the waiving thing either, but some point you have to look past the development side and place it on the player for his own depreciation, especially 1st rounders . This is the same for any sport. The NFL is litered who high drafted QB's who busted out. You can't squarely put it on the org when the guy you're trying to get better, either doesn't have it in him [drive] or was never as good as his draft ranking said he was. I think this is where TB falls, and they held on to him hoping to get better, even in the AHL ,then nothing happened. TB btw, was also developed by the same guys as Anderson, Roy, Spence Mov, Clarke and others. All have gotten better since their draft, you can at least admit to that.

The problem RJ has....is he only sees this as a LA King thing, not a whole damn sports thing...its why he put me on ignore, he couldn't stand being called out on his BS rhetoric....

Everyone is bitcing about "bad asset management" without recognizing that it is a sport issue, not a King issue, it's absolutely maddening at how narrow minded their focus is because they hate Luc, or Blake, or TM, it's complete blinders.

 

[lumbergh]

For the third time--it's not about this. It's about depreciating a first rounder into a waiver and getting nothing back for it simply because you suck ass at development and deployment. ... All in all it's just a masterclass in asset depreciation via bad deployment and development. It's finding a 100 dollar bill and instead of buying a candybar for a buck spending 50 on it just because you can.

RJ, you keep assigning a definite, known value to a draft pick, as if every kid drafted should hit their highest projection if given the right conditions. Most of those projections are optimistic and most late first and second round draft picks will not be impact players at the NHL level. You will drive yourself less crazy if you look at these draftees as $5 lottery tickets, not $100 bills. As soon as you scratch that lottery ticket, you are taking the chance that you might lose value. Sometimes you scratch off a ticket only to find out you can trade it in for a $1 lottery ticket. Sometimes you scratch off a 4th rounder and get a Jordan Spence, or a 7th rounder and get a Matt Roy.

Sometimes you draft a Bjornfot, or a Grans, or a Tambellini and call it a loss.

 

[YP44]

Wow looking back at that 2019 draft - besides the top 15 picks, nothing really panned out for anyone.

Newhook and Krebs aren't exactly world beaters and they were 16 and 17.

2018 was way worse for LA. 2019 looked like such a good draft for the kings. That is changing now.

 

[Kudelski37]

RJ, you keep assigning a definite, known value to a draft pick, as if every kid drafted should hit their highest projection if given the right conditions. Most of those projections are optimistic and most late first and second round draft picks will not be impact players at the NHL level. You will drive yourself less crazy if you look at these draftees as $5 lottery tickets, not $100 bills. As soon as you scratch that lottery ticket, you are taking the chance that you might lose value. Sometimes you scratch off a ticket only to find out you can trade it in for a $1 lottery ticket. Sometimes you scratch off a 4th rounder and get a Jordan Spence, or a 7th rounder and get a Matt Roy.

Sometimes you draft a Bjornfot, or a Grans, or a Tambellini and call it a loss.

I think RJ doesn't like that the Kings have intentionally sat Toby for the last 1.5 seasons while doing everything to replace him during that time. They could have traded him in the summer of 2022 through the summer of 2023 for something to get some value when they had tired of him. It could be a late round pick or another guy that didn't fit/advance.

Similar issues have been happening for years. It is poor planning. Players they keep take longer to develop and earn trust. Players they get rid of have less/no value. Both hurt the team now and in the future.

 

[LAKings88]

Faber 36GP 2G 14A 16P +10

Spence 33GP 0G 12A 12P +7

I still think Spence's history and track record show that he is a very good player.

 

[funky]

I think RJ doesn't like that the Kings have intentionally sat Toby for the last 1.5 seasons while doing everything to replace him during that time. They could have traded him in the summer of 2022 through the summer of 2023 for something to get some value when they had tired of him. It could be a late round pick or another guy that didn't fit/advance.

Similar issues have been happening for years. It is poor planning. Players they keep take longer to develop and earn trust. Players they get rid of have less/no value. Both hurt the team now and in the future.

I can see this line of thought and completely understand that line of thought. If thats how it did play out then its on the Kings.

Playing devils advocate, maybe Blake really liked Bjornfot, thought some time in the AHL would help take him to the next level and Bjornfot just didn't or couldn't take advantage causing the team to bypass him. Maybe there was no trade value last year? He is a pretty basic, vanilla guy that every team seems to have already.

I always ask myself is it a Yannetti and co draft miss or is it an Emerson and co Development f-up. I have now realized there was a third party that I was neglecting to put fault on and that is the player. Maybe at times, and I am not saying this is what happened with Toby, it is the players fault they don't take that next step.

I seem to recall an article last year that I will try and find that addressed what Bjornfot needed to do or what was expected of him. Maybe he just didn't do the work. We can give numerous examples of defenseman that did strive and grow in our system such as Durzi, Roy, Anderson, Clarke, Walker, and Spence.

Like I said with Fagemo, I hope he Bjornfot is a King tomorrow, if he is not I wish him well. It sucks loosing prospects and I to wish we could have recovered something even if its a later pick but it is what it is and we don't know whats going on behind the scenes.

 

[funky]

Faber 36GP 2G 14A 16P +10

Spence 33GP 0G 12A 12P +7

I still think Spence's history and track record show that he is a very good player.

Kings definitely have made some awesome picks and development with defenseman in the past. I loved the Faber pick but having guys like Spence and Clarke sure help cover that loss. I really do hope that we have something in Dvorak and he takes off playing in Canada.

I hear a ton about Faber up here in Canada but no one knows who Spence is. I didn't realize the production numbers were that close. I am thinking Spenny is a little underrated in these parts. If he had a Leaf on his chest he probably would already be hailed the next Bobby Orr.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

RJ, you keep assigning a definite, known value to a draft pick, as if every kid drafted should hit their highest projection if given the right conditions. Most of those projections are optimistic and most late first and second round draft picks will not be impact players at the NHL level. You will drive yourself less crazy if you look at these draftees as $5 lottery tickets, not $100 bills. As soon as you scratch that lottery ticket, you are taking the chance that you might lose value. Sometimes you scratch off a ticket only to find out you can trade it in for a $1 lottery ticket. Sometimes you scratch off a 4th rounder and get a Jordan Spence, or a 7th rounder and get a Matt Roy.

Sometimes you draft a Bjornfot, or a Grans, or a Tambellini and call it a loss.

I'm not assigning definite value. If anything, I've done the opposite and given it all time to play out. And what remains--a whole slew of guys doing well on other teams after being dicked around here and a bunch of assets who look to be in the same boat because the Kings didn't know what to do with them (look at all the guys waiver eligible at the end of this year and what almost inevitably will happen with Kaliyev).

Maybe it sounds vague and unfair but I created a whole list of this multiple times and I'm just too exhausted of this bullshit to do it again.

And again, so I don't look just like a hater--I've largelypraised what the Kings have done in rounds 4-7. They are the absolute MASTERS of nailing those guys. Which again, is a credit to the scouting and drafting. So why are they such relative bums in rounds 1-3, and keep churning those guys for cheap to other teams? This is a decade long phenomena, it's not about Bjornfot--i'm just annoyed because Bjornfot is the latest in a long line of guys likely to do much better elsewhere than with the Kings because they suck ad developing, assessing, and deploying high-round talent.

Edit: and to address what @funky said the third-party (really first party i guess) is the actual player. Yeah they're not all going to pan out but when NONE of them are panning out here but are elsewhere I think I'm reaching a fair conclusion.

I think RJ doesn't like that the Kings have intentionally sat Toby for the last 1.5 seasons while doing everything to replace him during that time. They could have traded him in the summer of 2022 through the summer of 2023 for something to get some value when they had tired of him. It could be a late round pick or another guy that didn't fit/advance.

Similar issues have been happening for years. It is poor planning. Players they keep take longer to develop and earn trust. Players they get rid of have less/no value. Both hurt the team now and in the future.

Much more succinct than me. Thank you!

 

[YP44]

Faber 36GP 2G 14A 16P +10

Spence 33GP 0G 12A 12P +7

I still think Spence's history and track record show that he is a very good player.

This is good proof that LA had the pieces available to move Faber in a deal


I wonder who sits for Clarke.

 

[chris kontos]

if the kings didnt want a stay at home d man which is what bjornfot projected as, why did they draft him?
once again the development of bjornfot was abomininable. either they didnt know what they wanted when they drafted him or they couldnt turn him into victor hedman.
i kept asking myself when durzi was being shoehorned into playing his off hand, why not use bjornfot? he's left handed and was good enough on the top pair for an entire season. its because its a popularity contest. obviously they dont know what they want.
i want the kings to succeed. but they sure are going about working to achive success in a strange manner.

 

[King'sPawn]

Faber 36GP 2G 14A 16P +10

Spence 33GP 0G 12A 12P +7

I still think Spence's history and track record show that he is a very good player.

This is good proof that LA had the pieces available to move Faber in a deal


I wonder who sits for Clarke.

Faber's used as the No 1, shutdown role like Doughty would be.

Spence is getting bottom-pairing minutes and deployment. Not to mention that Minnesota's in the lower half of goals scored per game. They aren't comparable.

 

[dman3474]

What time are waiver claims? I thought it used to be 9am pacific?

 

[BringTheReign]

Just going to leave this here and run…

NHL Teams Point Percentage against Top and Bottom Half Teams

 

[YP44]

11 am pacific

Just going to leave this here and run…

NHL Teams Point Percentage against Top and Bottom Half Teams

Got to make hay while the sunshines. No doubt need to be better against good teams.

 

[kingsboy11]

Its not like Bjornfot was a Teubert pick where they knew right away they made a mistake. Bjornfot has played over 117 NHL games, played 70 games 1 season. He showed well early and then all of a sudden the coaching staff just doesn't rate him. I'm not saying he was perfect in all of those games, but I can imagine for a player that played a lot of NHL games one season and then the next season spends the entire year in the AHL would make a player feel really down on his himself.

 

[Schrute farms]

Just going to leave this here and run…

NHL Teams Point Percentage against Top and Bottom Half Teams

Wow, that's eye opening....certainly crystal clear for concern.

 

[YP44]

sounds like no Clarke tonight, and Ritich in net