Rumor: Kypreos says Matthews will be 13.5M (Haggling over term)

[The Winter Soldier]

You know Matthews outscored Nylander in the playoffs almost every year, including this season, right?

"The only Leafs player who do something during the playoffs" was 4th on the Leafs in playoff scoring this year. HfBoards, you got to love it.

Matthews measuring stick is not Nylander though. It should be the players below, If he gets paid at 13.5M+ per for anything less than a max term based partly on his playoff record. Getting 13.5M+ would be bending over to him and his agent again. He would have milked the Leafs every last cent a second consecutive negotiations. For a caphit of 13.5M+ 8 years is at minimum the acceptable term. Otherwise the optics are he is just playing hockey for the money, and regular season stats, and not when it counts the most, the playoffs.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, and wins a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points
Matthews, 50GP, 44 points

 

[Alienblood]

He is such an unlikable player

3 year term at that AAV is disgusting.

trade him

 

[hamzarocks]

Matthews measuring stick is not Nylander though. It should be the players below, If he gets paid at 13.5M+ per for anything less than a max term based partly on his playoff record. Getting 13.5M+ would be bending over to him and his agent again. He would have milked the Leafs every last cent a second consecutive negotiations. For a caphit of 13.5M+ 8 years is at minimum the acceptable term. Otherwise the optics are he is just playing hockey for the money, and regular season stats, and not when it counts the most, the playoffs.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, and wins a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points
Matthews, 50GP, 44 points

Matthews so far isn't a playoff performer he will need a strong back half to his career to shake that notion

He isn't worth 13.5M on the term noted but he will get it b/c MLSE/Shanny are determined to make this core work some how.

Reg season is entertaining at least but playoffs things have fallen apart.

 

[zimmy61]

What bothers me (aside from the Leafs history of bending over for this core) is that if this rumor is correct, the AAV is set in stone and the years are still being negotiated. I always assumed that one is a product of the other. How can any credible GM agree to a fixed annual salary while the term has yet to be determined?

 

[Rob Brown]

Matthews measuring stick is not Nylander though. It should be the players below, If he gets paid at 13.5M+ per for anything less than a max term based partly on his playoff record. Getting 13.5M+ would be bending over to him and his agent again. He would have milked the Leafs every last cent a second consecutive negotiations. For a caphit of 13.5M+ 8 years is at minimum the acceptable term. Otherwise the optics are he is just playing hockey for the money, and regular season stats, and not when it counts the most, the playoffs.

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, and wins a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points
Matthews, 50GP, 44 points

You're the kinda guy that would rip on Leafs fans for comparing Matthews to Draisaitl or MacKinnon, yet here you are comparing them since it's convenient.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I think some people in this thread will be shocked how much some stars in the near future will be asking. LEAFS really are in a tough pickle.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

You're the kinda guy that would rip on Leafs fans for comparing Matthews to Draisaitl or MacKinnon, yet here you are comparing them since it's convenient.

Since Matthews is asking for the highest AAV in the league.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

You're the kinda guy that would rip on Leafs fans for comparing Matthews to Draisaitl or MacKinnon, yet here you are comparing them since it's convenient.

Interesting you choose to ignore the facts of the post, but rather focus on distraction. Most notably focusing on posters or playing the poor me picking on the Leafs victim card. Something I notice you do in almost every thread. Back to my point, was there anything not accurate in my post?

 

[AuraSphere]

What bothers me (aside from the Leafs history of bending over for this core) is that if this rumor is correct, the AAV is set in stone and the years are still being negotiated. I always assumed that one is a product of the other. How can any credible GM agree to a fixed annual salary while the term has yet to be determined?

Leafs prob offered 13.5M x 5-8 years, Maatthews wants 13.5M x 3 years

not that hard to comprehend

 

[Boxscore]

Eichel first playoffs, 22 GP, 26 points, and wins a Stanley Cup.
McDavid 49GP, 75 points.
Mackinnon 77GP, 100 points, Stanley Cup
Draisaitl 49GP, 77 points
Matthews, 50GP, 44 points

This cannot be overlooked, yet it is often ignored.

In addition to that, his ho-hum reaction after playoff loss after playoff loss is nauseating.

In no reality does Matthews deserve to make a dollar more than Nate MacKinnon who just signed last summer for 12.6 x 8.

 

[Rob Brown]

Interesting you choose to ignore the facts of the post, but rather focus on distraction. Most notably focusing on posters or playing the poor me picking on the Leafs victim card. Something I notice you do in almost every thread. Back to my point, was there anything not accurate in my post?

Everyone wants to tell us that comparing Matthews to McDavid or Draisaitl is disingenuous, so why are you doing it? It's a valid point. If you think he's in a tier below then compare him to the tier below.

 

[zimmy61]

Leafs prob offered 13.5M x 5-8 years, Maatthews wants 13.5M x 3 years

not that hard to comprehend

But unlike your hypothetical, the Kypreos rumour isn't saying they're both offering different terms for the same AAV, he's saying that they've already agreed to the salary terms and are now negotiating the number of years. That's the part that I find "hard to comprehend".

You don't ideally come to an agreement on annual salary and then go into part two of the negotiation to determine the number of years since one is typically dependant on the other (ie. locking in more years equals higher AAV and vice versa).

 

[AuraSphere]

But unlike your hypothetical, the Kypreos rumour isn't saying they're both offering different terms for the same AAV, he's saying that they've already agreed to the salary terms and are now negotiating the number of years. That's the part that I find "hard to comprehend".

You don't ideally come to an agreement on annual salary and then go into part two of the negotiation to determine the number of years since one is typically dependant on the other (ie. locking in more years equals higher AAV and vice versa).

Think you're thinking too much into it, the Leafs are fine with the AAV Matthews wants, but not the term. They've agreed 13.5M is fine but he needs to give more term for that to happen.

AAV isn't really agreed to before term - if he's hard stuck on 3 years, im sure Leafs will ask for lower AAV

 

[Mr Positive]

But unlike your hypothetical, the Kypreos rumour isn't saying they're both offering different terms for the same AAV, he's saying that they've already agreed to the salary terms and are now negotiating the number of years. That's the part that I find "hard to comprehend".

You don't ideally come to an agreement on annual salary and then go into part two of the negotiation to determine the number of years since one is typically dependant on the other (ie. locking in more years equals higher AAV and vice versa).

I'd guess that in that situation they are close on term as well, so it's just one year difference either way.

Settling on AAV is very GM focused, in that Treliving likely has a long term plan for how things have to align. Term is always good to push for of course because the cap percentage goes down every year. Also in Toronto's case they likely will make a run for McDavid in 3 years so maybe they want that Matthews deal to overlap a bit, at least to 4 years, so they don't have to re-sign Matthews at the same time as they have to give an offer to McDavid.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Everyone wants to tell us that comparing Matthews to McDavid or Draisaitl is disingenuous, so why are you doing it? It's a valid point. If you think he's in a tier below then compare him to the tier below.

On the flip side, a lot of Leaf fans want to insist Matthews is on par (or better) than guys like Draisaitl and MacKinnon. So, why do Leaf fans then get upset when their salaries and their playoff productions are held as a benchmark for Matthews?

 

[McVespa99]

So you are saying McDavid is not worth that price tag?

cool man.

Lol worst take ever. So McDavid at 4th all time playoff PPG doesnt get it done? hahahaha

 

[PainForShane]

I'd guess that in that situation they are close on term as well, so it's just one year difference either way.

Settling on AAV is very GM focused, in that Treliving likely has a long term plan for how things have to align. Term is always good to push for of course because the cap percentage goes down every year. Also in Toronto's case they likely will make a run for McDavid in 3 years so maybe they want that Matthews deal to overlap a bit, at least to 4 years, so they don't have to re-sign Matthews at the same time as they have to give an offer to McDavid.

As a neutral I would be very surprised if Edm doesn't lock up McDavid to some absurd contract the first day they're allowed to. McDavid is the best player in the world, he plays exciting hockey, elevates in the playoffs, puts butts in seats, you don't let those players go.

***

Also as an aside, most ppl here are forgetting that Matthews has all the leverage. Full NMC that has already kicked in, UFA next summer, you can't trade him unless he agrees to it (doubtful). I'm sure he's also thinking (probably correctly) that he'll get more than 13.5m next summer when the cap goes up, so from his perspective he's leaving money on the table just by considering an extension now. In other words if for whatever reason he doesn't like the deal Leafs are offering, why not just wait a year he'll almost certainly get multiple better deals from everyone including the Leafs.

And then he can decide for himself whether he wants to stay in Toronto or go somewhere like Vegas or Boston who, unlike Toronto actually has a history and culture of winning -- looking a bit further these are both realistic scenarios bc Boston has cap space if they trade one of Zacha / Coyle while not re-signing their 5th defenseman (both doable), Vegas can make something work if they put Stone on LTIR (also doable depending on Stone's back). At this point, it's not too crazy to think both teams (as well as others) would make a pitch for him, if they do it's not too crazy to think maybe Matthews might end up on any number of teams.

***

TLDR -- I'm not saying Matthews will definitely hit UFA, and even if he does, he still very well may re-sign in TOR (see Landy in Colorado). But I am saying that if he's not currently seeing a deal he likes, why not just wait a year, he'll get better deals when he hits UFA.

Leafs have absolutely no leverage with Matthews and to me it seems dumb to pretend otherwise

 

[Boxscore]

On the flip side, a lot of Leaf fans want to insist Matthews is on par (or better) than guys like Draisaitl and MacKinnon. So, why do Leaf fans then get upset when their salaries and their playoff productions are held as a benchmark for Matthews?

No rational Leafs fan truly thinks Matthews is better than Draisaitl or MacKinnon. I think MacKinnon is better than Matthews is every way except goal scoring (which is close). MacKinnon also is far more intense, dedicated, and has proved he can be a force on a Cup winning team. But, I can see the Leafs giving Matthews the same deal MacKinnon was just given because Nate did the Avs a solid and left some decent money on the table.

 

[Boxscore]

most ppl here are forgetting that Matthews has all the leverage.

Agreed. I'm not forgetting it at all though. In fact, one of the reasons I'm indicting Matthews as a player / person right now is because he is leveraging the Leafs into overpaying him and giving him less term than other stars commit to. That shows a very selfish, entitled, spoiled side to Matthews and makes me believe that being a true team player is not in his DNA. That's a massive red flag.

 

[centipede2233]

That’s definitely not ideal.

They’d be constantly paying Matthews top market value.

East has plenty of teams with their versions of Matthews making 8-10M.
Now add Marner+ the rest into the mix and Leafs will keep having depth trouble

Leaf’s are never winning a cup with Matthews always wanting to be at top market caphit. Let the spoiled pentulant child walk, and shanny can gtfo as well

 

[PainForShane]

Agreed. I'm not forgetting it at all though. In fact, one of the reasons I'm indicting Matthews as a player / person right now is because he is leveraging the Leafs into overpaying him and giving him less term than other stars commit to. That shows a very selfish, entitled, spoiled side to Matthews and makes me believe that being a true team player is not in his DNA. That's a massive red flag.

Yeah that's fair. Especially when you consider Nylander has publicly said that he doesn't want to be the only one taking a pay cut, if Matthews decides he wants to get paid, Willie's off the team and imo the team would then be much worse because of it.

I'm a neutral (Zona), but rn I think Leafs kinda have to pay him, and if I'm the Leafs I probably would. To use a poker analogy, at this point you've pot committed to your core, you can't really afford to lose AM34 for nothing, and at this point you can't really trade him bc of his no trade. Not a great situation for mgmt to be in.

It sounds like you're a leafs fan, would you pay him now with his requested term or let him walk to UFA? (or try to trade him knowing the return, if any, will be underwhelming given his NMC)

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Anyone paying attention to other sports should prepare for more of this.

 

[TopG]

13.5 is cheap. That’s a 2.5 mil AAV cut he’s taking

 

[PainForShane]

13.5 is cheap. That’s a 2.5 mil AAV cut he’s taking

I think you're being sarcastic but that actually might be true depending how much the cap goes up next summer (and if he decides to become a UFA). Cap projected to go up by 4-4.5m, if Stone goes on LTIR, Vegas could definitely make an offer in that range.

Either way, even if it ends up not actually being true, if either he or his agent believe it that's all that matters in terms of the current salary negotiation

 

[Seanaconda]

Probably will have a NMC in last year of deal,

He's gonna have nmcs every year , people always joke about how it's the last year but it's the only year he was eligible for a nmc.

He will have full trade protection on his next deal.