Rumor: Kyper: Dermott and Holl available for a trade

[ACC1224]

Something not talked about very much in this thread - I wonder how much Matthews' telling off Holl repeatedly in the game a few weeks back had an impact on all of this. For all we know, Matthews may have approached Dubas about Holl. That game where Holl was yelled at was Holl's last game.

Not a chance.

 

[Stigma]

Not a chance.

Not saying it was the direct cause of Holl sitting, but possibly a factor.

 

[The Podium]

How is swapping out Holl for Liljegren "changing half our D core"?

Your arguments are just falling flat. The signs of Holl's decline were already in motion and the Leafs should have protected the better player. They had (cheap) internal fill-in options.

Lilly and Sandin in for Holl and Bogo, moving Dermott into the top 4 is changing 3 of the 4 D, either by name or by responsibility.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

This heavy shopping of Holl and Dermott annoys me.

Feels excessive.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If handled correctly at the negotiating table, Holl goes from $2M liability in the press box to $950K safety net.

Holl was handled correctly at the negotiating table, and he's not a liability. He was never being signed for 950k. He provided great value for us last year at his cap hit, and he still holds solid value as an asset. We've just seen big steps taken by Liljegren, opening up more possibilities.

 

[Havoc]

Lilly and Sandin in for Holl and Bogo, moving Dermott into the top 4 is changing 3 of the 4 D, either by name or by responsibility.

This shouldn't be an issue because those players are all developed by us. They know the team and they know their vision. Dermott himself was in the top 4 before.

It's a done deal by today that protecting Holl was a mistake. We can make all the excuses we want but can't change the facts any more. Time to just fix it and move on. It's not a hard fix or anything we should worry about. The glue in all of this is the McCann trade was cheap. There's no drama here. Just witnessing a very unique form of player turn over. Asset management wise we break even in the worst case so again nothing to make drama about from either ends.

 

[kb]

This shouldn't be an issue because those players are all developed by us. They know the team and they know their vision.

It's a done deal by today that protecting Holl was a mistake. We can make all the excuses we want but can't change the facts any more. Time to just fix it and move on. It's not a hard fix or anything we should worry about. The glue in all of this is the McCann trade was cheap. There's no drama here. Just witnessing a very unique form of player turn over. Asset management wise we break even in the worst case so again nothing to make drama about from either ends.

It wasn't a mistake. Then or now.

It was the right move. Then and now.

 

[ACC1224]

This shouldn't be an issue because those players are all developed by us. They know the team and they know their vision. Dermott himself was in the top 4 before.

It's a done deal by today that protecting Holl was a mistake. We can make all the excuses we want but can't change the facts any more. Time to just fix it and move on. It's not a hard fix or anything we should worry about. The glue in all of this is the McCann trade was cheap. There's no drama here. Just witnessing a very unique form of player turn over. Asset management wise we break even in the worst case so again nothing to make drama about from either ends.

Good post.
A mistake for sure, most if not all would agree, but not the end of the world.

 

[Havoc]

It wasn't a mistake. Then or now.

It was the right move. Then and now.

That's an opinion. Factually it was wrong. The guy didn't even last 10 games. I think you're confusing sound justification with something being right. As of right now it was a flop move. That's not my opinion it's fact. His trade value is even lower today than it was in the off season. It would be nice if the final result was correct too, not just the reasoning behind it.

Like I said it's not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things. Not going to go on a management sucks spree. It's just an unfortunate ending. That should be enough to satisfy you.

 

[geo25]

Something not talked about very much in this thread - I wonder how much Matthews' telling off Holl repeatedly in the game a few weeks back had an impact on all of this. For all we know, Matthews may have approached Dubas about Holl. That game where Holl was yelled at was Holl's last game.

Very astute!

 

[TheShape]

People want this killer instinct team but shy away from actual killer instinct decisions.

Yup. This management group has been far too reactive.

 

[Legion34]

This heavy shopping of Holl and Dermott annoys me.

Feels excessive.

By who? The media or the fans? Or the leafs?

 

[Shooter2x]

It wasn't a mistake. Then or now.

It was the right move. Then and now.

Matthews thinks it was a mistake.

Dubas thinks it's a mistake indirectly through his actions. Trade block right away....that's pretty damn harsh man.

Don't know about you but I'll stick with Matthews opinion since he actually plays for the team.

 

[bossram]

Lilly and Sandin in for Holl and Bogo, moving Dermott into the top 4 is changing 3 of the 4 D, either by name or by responsibility.

Sandin was already playing games for the Leafs (in the playoffs too) and Bogo was gone any way you slice it.

I would swap the entire D corps out if the incoming players were better overall.

 

[zeke]

This heavy shopping of Holl and Dermott annoys me.

Feels excessive.

The only thing that should annoy/amuse you is how desperate leafs media is to create negative stories and drama whenever the Leafs play well - because god knows they can never just talk about the leafs playing well.

The Leafs playing well means the media is only allowed to talk about which struggling leafs must be traded and how every leaf doing well will be impossible to re-sign for next year.

 

[zeke]

Sandin was already playing games for the Leafs (in the playoffs too) and Bogo was gone any way you slice it.

I would swap the entire D corps out if the incoming players were better overall.

The Leafs D was very good last year and is very good this year, though.

 

[Ashdown2]

And if Lilly couldn’t handle playing NHL minutes?

this tired narrative of mccan is stupid ...... .. he was never a leaf ...
it as hallander to protect all the players on the roster... in the end that was a fantastic move,

people need to move on with their lives

 

[Shooter2x]

Yup. This management group has been far too reactive.

Message board being confused for the NHL. Here, you get an A+ if you can write something that sounds good. Doesn't matter if you're wrong, you used some good English, proper paragraphs, good supporting evidence, the likes pile up.

In the NHL the final answer is all that matters. Holl gets an F. The guys who can make these hunch decisions on the fly make the big bucks. It's why Lou is still highly coveted today. If you are in dire need for an on the spot answer and have no time to get concerns answered, you call Lou. I like our management overall, we're just missing a "gut" guy and Shanahan needs to add one to the team. You need that in hockey. Our management is even too scared to see what life without Engvall would be like so we lose a Marchment.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Message board being confused for the NHL. Here, you get an A+ if you can write something that sounds good. Doesn't matter if you're wrong, you used some good English, proper paragraphs, good supporting evidence, the likes pile up.

In the NHL the final answer is all that matters. Holl gets an F. The guys who can make these hunch decisions on the fly make the big bucks. It's why Lou is still highly coveted today. If you are in dire need for an on the spot answer and have no time to get concerns answered, you call Lou. I like our management overall, we're just missing a "gut" guy and Shanahan needs to add one to the team. You need that in hockey. Our management is even too scared to see what life without Engvall would be like so we lose a Marchment.

The league would stand no chance if we had the intended Dubas-Lou team. They would keep each other honest and meet somewhere right in the middle. Both are brilliant.

I think I just glitched the board with a post that isn't black or white Lou or Dubas. Expect the server error message soon.

 

[hockeynorth]

Holl contract was good when signed, everyone loved it last year too. Why can’t we just have both a) a surplus of good dmen and b) fairly paid players by their skill set because thats what we have

 

[justashadowof]

Are Leafs' fans of the opinion that Justin Holl has been really bad this season compared to any point last season? If we're in agreement about that then I can hardly expect anyone to have anticipated this level of drop off from Holl. There's usually a specific reason for the sudden drop off (trying to play through an injury, personal problems, health issues, etc.) but ultimately it doesn't matter as this is a results based business.

 

[ToneDog]

Holl contract was good when signed, everyone loved it last year too. Why can’t we just have both a) a surplus of good dmen and b) fairly paid players by their skill set because thats what we have

You need 7 or 8 good dmen for a deep playoff run. IMO Leaf management is looking to make better use of some of Holls' $2m cap hit. If they think Dermott is a fixture on the RS, perhaps they think it is better to trade for a cheaper #6/7 dman and use the cap savings to upgrade elsewhere or they are looking to acquire a cheaper Bogozian type dman to replace Dermott.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The only thing that should annoy/amuse you is how desperate leafs media is to create negative stories and drama whenever the Leafs play well - because god knows they can never just talk about the leafs playing well.

The Leafs playing well means the media is only allowed to talk about which struggling leafs must be traded and how every leaf doing well will be impossible to re-sign for next year.

My only media exposure is here, Reddit (only a little), and The Score App. No cable, Facebook, Twitter or radio.

I rarely find I like the articles from The Score, so I’ve stopped those. I’ve banned myself from The Hockey Writers.

Maybe they aren’t being shopped that bad ?

 

[zeke]

My only media exposure is here, Reddit (only a little), and The Score App. No cable, Facebook, Twitter or radio.

I rarely find I like the articles from The Score, so I’ve stopped those. I’ve banned myself from The Hockey Writers.

Maybe they aren’t being shopped that bad ?

Maybe they aren't being shopped at all?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Teams hopeful to be in the playoffs aren't trying to dump quality and affordable depth, especially on defense...

We're not trying to dump Holl at all. With Liljegren's emergence, we are reportedly looking at the trade market for a possible exchange to a cheaper alternative in the 7th D spot, to return an asset and open up more roster possibilities, because we currently have 7 quality NHL defensemen that should be playing every night.