Kyle Dubas will not be back as GM

[Vegeta]

He didn’t do a bad job necessarily. But he wasn’t a really good GM who needed to be kept around. Had some good and some bad moments.

He had his core stars but then just kept surrounding them with depth and role players for the most part. The best GM’s are able to continuously find new talent in different ways and improve the team. He stalled the team and kept it where it was and tried 30 different depth players and veterans.
But never really did anything to make the team notably better IMO.

Above average GM but wasn’t a difference maker. However there’s a lot of bad GM’s around so the leafs could be worse off if they make a bad hire.

I disagree with that statement.

Ryan O'Reilly is a game changer.

Brodie/Muzzin/Schenn were all massive improvements over what they had in the past. I'd say Muzzin was a difference maker for the Leafs, unfortunately his career is done.

Tavares should be a difference maker, but has disappointed.

Dubas wasn't afraid of adding big pieces to the team.

His depth was great, but he did bring in skill too.

 

[Channelcat]

How does Shanahan still have a job? This looks bad right now.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Dubas was not the problem, he literally did everything possible to put a winning team in Toronto.

He built a great organization, losing him is a massive blow, no matter how they spin this.

This firing is 100% because of the players underdelivering

LOL

 

[Channelcat]

So Shanny says he offered a deal to Dubas, Dubas hesitated then said yes a week later, at which point Shanny says they've decided to go a different direction. Do I have this correct?

 

[Captain3rdLine]

I disagree with that statement.

Ryan O'Reilly is a game changer.

Brodie/Muzzin/Schenn were all massive improvements over what they had in the past. I'd say Muzzin was a difference maker for the Leafs, unfortunately his career is done.

Tavares should be a difference maker, but has disappointed.

Dubas wasn't afraid of adding big pieces to the team.

His depth was great, but he did bring in skill too.

Clearly not that much of a game changer. Didn’t say he was afraid of making big moves or adding big pieces nor do I think he was a bad GM. Also was gifted Tavares by the way. And Schenn is not good whatsoever although he did alright for the leafs.

At the end of the day he was given a very good team with elite talent. He did well enough to keep them where they were at but didn’t improve them much or bring them any playoff success. He didn’t do a bad job or mess things up but also didn’t do a great job. Was there any/many deals where Dubas fleeced another team or made some under the radar move for somebody who ended up being very impactful. The ones you mentioned are what he did a lot of. Dump assets for solid often veteran players (often at the deadline). And then hope that’s enough to support the core.

 

[Shane Diesel]

He made six moves at the deadline lol:

ROR + Acciari deal
Lafferty + Mccabe Deal
Schenn Deal
Moved out Engvall for a 3rd
Sandin for a 1st and Gustafsson
Hunt for Zahorna

As a leafs fan, I thought he did everything he could to make this team a contender. Sad to see him go.

And now he doesn't have to be accountable for mortgaging the Leafs' future. Sweet gig.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Dubas handled his contract like he handled player contracts: like a newbie.

 

[BTP]

Some other team is going to get blessed. TML lost a great GM.

 

[ShelbyZ]

The uncharitable way of reading it is that Dubas, knowing he had an offer, went into the press conference and tried to show uncertainty of signing to try and get more money.

The most charitable way of reading it is that he wore his heart on his sleeve and was really uncertain because of family reasons. However, you can't really waver in terms of your commitment to being the GM publicly like that, I get it.

I think there's probably a bit of both parts in it, but who really knows except Dubas, we just all speculating.

All I know is that this guy is being excoriated for asking for more money lol, and it reminds me of Nick Lidstrom when he was publicly thinking of going back to Sweden for family reasons during contract negotiations, but ended up signing a rich contract.

Now Lidstrom was well deserving of that contract, and I don't really get into much of the armchair GM stuff here nor follow the Leafs enough to know if Dubas is deserving or not of whatever money was on the table, but at the end of the day, I'm never going to hate a guy for trying to get all he can, from such a lucrative business as professional sports, even if it is just pro hockey lol

To be fair, the Wings from that era were notably cheap and sometimes slimy when it came to negotiating contracts prior to Lidstrom's big extension (see Vernon, Fedorov, Kozlov, Fetisov, etc.) so his agent's play of planting that "wanting to raise the kids in Sweden" seed YEARS AHEAD of his contract expiring was brilliant. Ended up where they didn't have to hold out, sign an offer sheet with the Hurricanes to get what you're worth or retire and get more money as an assistant coach than what Holland offered to play hockey.

More to your earlier point, I would imagine that whatever Dubas does next could answer your quandry of charitable vs. uncharitable:

Probably trends toward the uncharitable if within the next few weeks he sweeps everything he said in his presser under the rug and we see a him taking a GM(or more) role with the Pens or Flames.

Or the charitable side if he truly does take a year off before considering other NHL roles. Maybe ends up on TNT/TBS or whatever.

Could also be somewhere in the middle where maybe Dubas wants more money/responsibility or a new challenge somewhere else.

 

[Channelcat]

I have to wonder what the organization thought of the handling of the Matthews deal. Dishing out that much cash and only getting 1 year of UFA status? Ughhh. Or did they even get 1, I can't recall.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

Some other team is going to get blessed. TML lost a great GM.

Pretty good sure but what was great about what he did?

 

[tabness]

To be fair, the Wings from that era were notably cheap and sometimes slimy when it came to negotiating contracts prior to Lidstrom's big extension (see Vernon, Fedorov, Kozlov, Fetisov, etc.) so his agent's play of planting that "wanting to raise the kids in Sweden" seed YEARS AHEAD of his contract expiring was brilliant. Ended up where they didn't have to hold out, sign an offer sheet with the Hurricanes to get what you're worth or retire and get more money as an assistant coach than what Holland offered to play hockey.

More to your earlier point, I would imagine that whatever Dubas does next could answer your quandry of charitable vs. uncharitable:

Probably trends toward the uncharitable if within the next few weeks he sweeps everything he said in his presser under the rug and we see a him taking a GM(or more) role with the Pens or Flames.

Or the charitable side if he truly does take a year off before considering other NHL roles. Maybe ends up on TNT/TBS or whatever.

Could also be somewhere in the middle where maybe Dubas wants more money/responsibility or a new challenge somewhere else.

Off topic but since you seem to be well aware of the Wings dealings of that time, was the Lidstrom contract when the Wings finally got off the supposed internal cap they had? They were really cheap and not player friendly (Bowman director of player personnel lol) in the mid nineties, I think this was due to Ilitch being frustrated with how things were going especially after the loss in 1994, where he publicly wondered if he was too good to his players.

 

[Bartleby]

It all stems back to blowing $11M on Tavares instead of improving defense, when you already had a franchise 1C.

Tavares was good for toronto until only recently, people seem to forget that

That was the death blow and it happened 5 years ago. That they waited this long to cut Dubas loose and went through this much angst over getting rid of him at this point in time is laughable. He has been a disaster.

As for your comment @Canucks LB , you have completely missed the point, as have so many others. Whether Tavares was good (read:productive) or not is irrelevant. He was not the player they needed, full stop. But Dubas, in his ignorance, thought it's all about 'goals for' and with four top tier goal scorers they couldn't lose.

And one last point about Dubas. He's a Millenial with a Millenlial's sense of entitlement. He feels he is owed a SC, not that he had to earn one.

 

[elitepete]

Dubas’s mistake was giving massive contracts to two restricted free agents when they had zero leverage and who are now going to be demanding raises. Stupid move.

This as well as not trading Nylander for a defenseman, and the Kadri for Barrie trade were all really bad moves/non-moves.

Most overrated GM in NHL history.

 

[HofT]

So Shanny says he offered a deal to Dubas, Dubas hesitated then said yes a week later, at which point Shanny says they've decided to go a different direction. Do I have this correct?

I'm assuming Dubas wanted longer term and the board didn't want that.

 

[kylbaz]

He was over rated. When your team has three of top six paid guys in the league and especially all forward, you're in for a bad time.

 

[Michoulicious]

I come back from work and I read that? Not only Dubas is not back, but they basically rescinded their extension offer after seeing his press conference (even if he told them he wanted to be back).

Wow.

Spezza resigns the same day.

That... is not good.

They need to figure out if they trade Matthews or not now. If he doesn't commit to an extension soon, he has a full NMC July 1st.

He will have all the leverage then.

What a day.

 

[Shane Diesel]

Honestly: totally heartbroken.

Should've been GM for life.

 

[Channelcat]

I'm assuming Dubas wanted longer term and the board didn't want that.

Yes. Agreed. You know that's exactly what happened

 

[DaBolts]

 

[Zur En Arrh]

How does Shanahan still have a job? This looks bad right now.

Not on shanny. He looks like he wouldn't allow a game to be run on him. Dubas straight up used his wife and kids to get more money and more power(probably hoping to leverage himself into shannys job and have more political power to snuff out shanny when the time came) and he got caught and made to look like a dumbass.

The only reason shanny laid it all out the way he did was to protect himself. If the kid was willing to do that to the guy who brought him up it had to be important to get the truth out there before it was spun. Dubas was straight up caught.. What a major f***up.

 

[BTP]

Pretty good sure but what was great about what he did?

Trade Deadline this year.
Getting out of certain contracts.
Several great value trades.
Fantastic relationship with players.

 

[Thechozen1]

I hear that Ron Hextall is available.

Match made in heaven!! Maybe bring in Milbury too while they’re at it.

 

[AvroArrow]

Not on shanny. He looks like he wouldn't allow a game to be run on him. Dubas straight up used his wife and kids to get more money and more power(probably hoping to leverage himself into shannys job and have more political power to snuff out shanny when the time came) and he got caught and made to look like a dumbass.

The only reason shanny laid it all out the way he did was to protect himself. If the kid was willing to do that to the guy who brought him up it had to be important to get the truth out there before it was spun. Dubas was straight up caught.. What a major f***up.

Yup, I don't know how people here cannot see this.

 

[66-30-33]

I hear that Ron Hextall is available.

Pens/Leafs swap GMs.