Kyle Dubas will not be back as GM

[Adele Dazeem]

Interesting. Also interesting that Spezza was a Senators legend. Dubas and Spezza to Sens confirmed

He's a disgraceful legend who left the team like a coward. He won't be coming back. Dubas can also kick rocks.
Ottawa should stay away from the Leafs garbage.

 

[Nico Cauzuki]

I think that was a mistake he was a good gm imo

Hire Bergevin hes available

 

[hockeykicker]

 

[Vegeta]

I don't think he was bad at all. He surrounded the top players with some good talent and depth players. The problem is the core. Plain and simple. You can surround them with everything you need but if they aren't going to show up when it matters no GM can help. And that's a fact.

This.

Honestly, what do you change?

I was critical of the Tavares move when it happened, but it was understandable. It only became super awful when the pandemic screwed over everything.

Everything else is not really his fault. In this league, when you tank, you develop your core, and you run with them for as long as you can.

Matthews/Marner/Rielly/Nylander was what he had to build around, and I'd say he did it admirably. A GM's most important job is giving his superstars the depth they need to succeed.

The Leafs' issue has never been the depth, it's been the stars not performing. The depth almost always showed up for them in the Dubas era. No one can say that his teams were not solid on paper.

If Leaf fans think next year will be better, they'll be sorely mistaken. My guess would be that we're likely moving towards a new Dark Age in Leaf fandom.

 

[Woodrow]

Treliving may be the least worst of all the other terrible GMs that are available but that's only because it's hard to tell how much Flames ownership was meddling..

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Didn't Kyle say that he didn't want to be gm of any other team? What is the problem with him expressing that he needs to take some time and have some conversations with this family, when he was without contract? When he was installed as a lame duck gm for the last year with a team that clearly expressed that they, too, were unsure if the relationship was tenable until the dust settled after playoffs?

From an outside perspective, it seems that Dubas is coming across as the bad guy here for wearing his heart on his sleeve a little, but he made it clear that he didn't want to work for any other org. If this was a player having these discussions, it would be par for the course, no? I feel like Shanahan and the leafs are pulling the wool over the eyes of everyone and it's gotten all of the media and fanbase to pile on Dubas unfairly.

That press conference was not that big of a deal in my opinion, and is being leveraged for something that it wasn't.

 

[vildurson]

Now it will be interesting if he is open to discuss with Pens given latest developments.

Leafs full explosion incoming in 1... 2... 3... go!

Good hockey and Leafs destruction is nice entertainment(sad but probably necessary) for this time of year.

I wonder if Shanahan's position is safe too. He has to be the next one to go.

 

[Eco]

This.

Honestly, what do you change?

I was critical of the Tavares move when it happened, but it was understandable. It only became super awful when the pandemic screwed over everything.

Everything else is not really his fault. In this league, when you tank, you develop your core, and you run with them for as long as you can.

Matthews/Marner/Rielly/Nylander was what he had to build around, and I'd say he did it admirably. A GM's most important job is giving his superstars the depth they need to succeed.

The Leafs' issue has never been the depth, it's been the stars not performing. The depth almost always showed up for them in the Dubas era. No one can say that his teams were not solid on paper.

If Leaf fans think next year will be better, they'll be sorely mistaken. My guess would be that we're likely moving towards a new Dark Age in Leaf fandom.

I agree with most of this.

I think what really got Dubas was his loyalty to Keefe. I thought that was the weak spot in that organization, as while their depth isn't great, their defense played a lot better than people gave them credit for.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Leafs took a few steps back, and now with news of Spezza leaving and players being very unhappy, it might be the beginning of the end for this era of Leaf hockey.

 

[barkovcanfinnish]

Well this went from 0 to 100 really fast.

I thought it was simply Dubas wasn’t coming back but now it sounds like there’s a bunch of internal drama about it

Yikes

 

[Some Other Flame]

Shanahan seems wildly in over his head

 

[CrazyJoeDavola]

Also, if what we're hearing is true about autonomy being demanded from Dubas, is this not indicative of the fact that Shanahan was behind a lot of the decisions and roster moves and, ultimately, is more to blame than Dubas? Perhaps there's another person that should be without a job, too.

 

[Vegeta]

Also, if what we're hearing is true about autonomy being demanded from Dubas, is this not indicative of the fact that Shanahan was behind a lot of the decisions and roster moves and, ultimately, is more to blame than Dubas? Perhaps there's another person that should be without a job, too.

If Shanahan is indeed behind decisions like the Tavares deal, or the Marner extension, then he needs the boot.

IIRC, many people were surprised that Dubas would make those moves at the time. Perhaps they were surprising because he didn't actually make them.

 

[Woodrow]

Didn't Kyle say that he didn't want to be gm of any other team? What is the problem with him expressing that he needs to take some time and have some conversations with this family, when he was without contract? When he was installed as a lame duck gm for the last year with a team that clearly expressed that they, too, were unsure if the relationship was tenable until the dust settled after playoffs?

From an outside perspective, it seems that Dubas is coming across as the bad guy here for wearing his heart on his sleeve a little, but he made it clear that he didn't want to work for any other org. If this was a player having these discussions, it would be par for the course, no? I feel like Shanahan and the leafs are pulling the wool over the eyes of everyone and it's gotten all of the media and fanbase to pile on Dubas unfairly.

That press conference was not that big of a deal in my opinion, and is being leveraged for something that it wasn't.

I kind of get the impression that working for the Leafs may just be an unpleasant workplace. Which probably really sucks when you think it's going to be your dream job and it turns out not to be so dreamy.

 

[tabness]

Didn't Kyle say that he didn't want to be gm of any other team? What is the problem with him expressing that he needs to take some time and have some conversations with this family, when he was without contract? When he was installed as a lame duck gm for the last year with a team that clearly expressed that they, too, were unsure if the relationship was tenable until the dust settled after playoffs?

From an outside perspective, it seems that Dubas is coming across as the bad guy here for wearing his heart on his sleeve a little, but he made it clear that he didn't want to work for any other org. If this was a player having these discussions, it would be par for the course, no? I feel like Shanahan and the leafs are pulling the wool over the eyes of everyone and it's gotten all of the media and fanbase to pile on Dubas unfairly.

That press conference was not that big of a deal in my opinion, and is being leveraged for something that it wasn't.

The uncharitable way of reading it is that Dubas, knowing he had an offer, went into the press conference and tried to show uncertainty of signing to try and get more money.

The most charitable way of reading it is that he wore his heart on his sleeve and was really uncertain because of family reasons. However, you can't really waver in terms of your commitment to being the GM publicly like that, I get it.

I think there's probably a bit of both parts in it, but who really knows except Dubas, we just all speculating.

All I know is that this guy is being excoriated for asking for more money lol, and it reminds me of Nick Lidstrom when he was publicly thinking of going back to Sweden for family reasons during contract negotiations, but ended up signing a rich contract.

Now Lidstrom was well deserving of that contract, and I don't really get into much of the armchair GM stuff here nor follow the Leafs enough to know if Dubas is deserving or not of whatever money was on the table, but at the end of the day, I'm never going to hate a guy for trying to get all he can, from such a lucrative business as professional sports, even if it is just pro hockey lol

 

[Walrus26]

So sad, too bad, never mind.

Stat-padding in the regular season and SportsNet wankfests do not win playoff rounds. One second round appearance in his tenure and that was a crushing series defeat.

His star forwards disappear when the big boy pants need to be worn (with the partial exception of Nylander)- at least some of that is on Dubas and his decisions to spunk so much cap on them.

 

[vanarchy]

It’s quite clear Dubas was too close with the players and some of these contracts suggest that.

I agree. If you're trying to give the core players a news flash, getting rid of their buddy is a great first step.

 

[Canadian Finn]

GOOD!
This is the best news of the day.

 

[Vegeta]

The uncharitable way of reading it is that Dubas, knowing he had an offer, went into the press conference and tried to show uncertainty of signing to try and get more money.

The most charitable way of reading it is that he wore his heart on his sleeve and was really uncertain because of family reasons. However, you can't really waver in terms of your commitment to being the GM publicly like that, I get it.

I think there's probably a bit of both parts in it, but who really knows except Dubas, we just all speculating.

All I know is that this guy is being excoriated for asking for more money lol, and it reminds me of Nick Lidstrom when he was publicly thinking of going back to Sweden for family reasons during contract negotiations, but ended up signing a rich contract.

Now Lidstrom was well deserving of that contract, and I don't really get into much of the armchair GM stuff here nor follow the Leafs enough to know if Dubas is deserving or not of whatever money was on the table, but at the end of the day, I'm never going to hate a guy for trying to get all he can, from such a lucrative business as professional sports, even if it is just pro hockey lol

Also keep in mind, MLSE is the richest ownership in hockey, and is owned by two monopolizing tech companies.

If anyone can pay up, it's them.

 

[chaosrevolver]

I'm a bit surprised as a Habs fan cause as much as I'm taught to hate the Leafs, I've always seen a GM that will do everything he can to put a good team on the ice.

I think he has room to go on the professional aspect (pretty expected given his age) but I do think his best years may be yet to come as a GM. I really feel that way if he ends up in the right spot.

Curious where (assuming he does) he ends up.

Note: Haven't watched Shanahans PC since I'm at work yet but will have to hear some of the details people are discussing.

 

[tmlms13]

Everyone shhh. Let's hear from fan bases who haven't won in forever let us know how bad Dubas was.

Unless it's a Tampa or Colorado fan, pay them no mind since their losers lose just as much

Who cares what any fan base thinks about any GM. That's why they are fans. Everyone can give their opinion here and it has absolutely zero influence on an actual team's decision making.

Being a fan of a recent SC winner doesn't stop them from saying really stupid things and being a fan of a loser team doesn't stop people from have a smart idea.

 

[Canadian Finn]

I kind of get the impression that working for the Leafs may just be an unpleasant workplace. Which probably really sucks when you think it's going to be your dream job and it turns out not to be so dreamy.

little kyle is growing up.

 

[valet]

Dubas was not the problem, he literally did everything possible to put a winning team in Toronto.

He built a great organization, losing him is a massive blow, no matter how they spin this.

This firing is 100% because of the players underdelivering

he didn’t really build the organization though, he just took what lou built then signed tavares. much of his tenure was tweaking the roster to be cap compliant due to the massive spend on 3 players. they lacked the consistency necessary in the bottom half of the lineup to advance in the playoffs.

it’s super rare for teams that constantly rework their bottom 6 to make deep playoff runs. teams with lesser talent that spend more time together will do better almost always. take dallas for instance. they’re not really an elite team on paper, but they know how to win as a group in the playoffs together because they have an understanding that only comes with experience.

the leafs roster looks insane on paper, but something like half of the players have only played one full season together, and have never really been past the first round. there’s something important there that kept getting lost in the cap shuffle.

my two cents

 

[who_me?]

I kind of get the impression that working for the Leafs may just be an unpleasant workplace. Which probably really sucks when you think it's going to be your dream job and it turns out not to be so dreamy.

Not just the Leafs, it's like this in every Canadian front office. Edmonton, Montreal... they are all clown shoes. That's why players don't want to play in Canada. And then you've got the Pejorative Slured Canadian media...

 

[Voight]

I highly doubt they let him walk because of the money, 2 million is like peanuts. They just didn't want to give him complete control like he wanted.

Thats something you gotta earn.

Brad tree living is the only general manager I can see that makes any sense.

Especially if they want to shake up the core

Its a wildcard but IMO Dean Lombardi wouldn't be a bad choice.

 

[Captain3rdLine]

This.

Honestly, what do you change?

I was critical of the Tavares move when it happened, but it was understandable. It only became super awful when the pandemic screwed over everything.

Everything else is not really his fault. In this league, when you tank, you develop your core, and you run with them for as long as you can.

Matthews/Marner/Rielly/Nylander was what he had to build around, and I'd say he did it admirably. A GM's most important job is giving his superstars the depth they need to succeed.

The Leafs' issue has never been the depth, it's been the stars not performing. The depth almost always showed up for them in the Dubas era. No one can say that his teams were not solid on paper.

If Leaf fans think next year will be better, they'll be sorely mistaken. My guess would be that we're likely moving towards a new Dark Age in Leaf fandom.

He didn’t do a bad job necessarily. But he wasn’t a really good GM who needed to be kept around. Had some good and some bad moments.

He had his core stars but then just kept surrounding them with depth and role players for the most part. The best GM’s are able to continuously find new talent in different ways and improve the team. He stalled the team and kept it where it was and tried 30 different depth players and veterans.
But never really did anything to make the team notably better IMO.

Above average GM but wasn’t a difference maker. However there’s a lot of bad GM’s around so the leafs could be worse off if they make a bad hire.