Confirmed with Link: Kyle Dubas named President of Hockey Operations

[AuroraBorealis]

The most important aspect of bringing in Dubas was how he'll contribute to the rebuild/re-tool...how he'll rebuild the prospect pool to set us up for the future. Even in this position, his fingerprints will be all over that. That is clear from his presser.

People should be very happy with this. Dude was a scout at 17 in the AHL. GM at 25. He values development and the minors more than anyone else you'd hire.
The farm is no longer gonna be neglected. It won't be in the pitiful state it is now when the core are toast.

If you need evidence, look at where the Marlies finished this year. 6th in the league. Wilkes 29th. Look at the man-games for Marlies players in Toronto's rosters the last few years.
The Leafs traded high picks to contend just like we did, and yet one AHL affiliate is thriving and one is a wasteland.

 

[Empoleon8771]

50 slide power points are like undergrad final presentation level, man.

It's also a presentation level of someone who hasn't learned how to concisely portray information

And again, I don’t know how you square the circle of Sullivan going out and advocating for players like Rodrigues and then claim he didn’t get the roster he wanted.

By all accounts Sullivan had lots of input on the roster the last few years of JR’s tenure and into Hextall’s. I’ll give him a pass on Granlund though. That was not his fault.

I think the distinction I'd make here is that Sullivan did get the rosters he wanted before 2022-2023 but didn't get the roster he wanted in 2022-2023.

I've made this point a couple of times about Hextall but 2022-2023 was really the year where it all went to shit for him. The team had really good depth in 2020-2021 and 2021-2022 with Hextall as GM, he just absolutely bungled the 2022 off-season.

 

[HandshakeLine]

The goaltending sucked, and we had Jack Johnson? I mean that's just to start without going back through those rosters.

Who Sullivan played at every opportunity, lest we forget. Like I don’t want to lay every bad player at his feet, but dude got what he wanted. If anything those horrible post-2019 rosters have more of his input than the 2018 one.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The saddest reality of all is that Evan Rodrigues is a much better player than anybody in Hextall's bottom-6. Hopefully that embarrassingly low bar to clear changes with the FO (and hopefully scouting dept) assembled this summer.

 

[Power Surge]

The goaltending sucked, and we had Jack Johnson? I mean that's just to start without going back through those rosters.

Yeah, CDS and Injarry should be the first to pack their bags. Adios

 

[Empoleon8771]

The saddest reality of all is that Evan Rodrigues is a much better player than anybody in Hextall's bottom-6. Hopefully that embarrassingly low bar to clear changes with the FO (and hopefully scouting dept) assembled this summer.

They should have kept ERod to begin with. Letting him walk was just stupid by Hextall.

 

[Pens1566]

50 slide power points are like undergrad final presentation level, man.

Saw a 384 slide behemoth the other day. Good times.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Who Sullivan played at every opportunity, lest we forget. Like I don’t want to lay every bad player at his feet, but dude got what he wanted. If anything those horrible post-2019 rosters have more of his input than the 2018 one.

I mean he played in Colorado's top-6 this year too. He was a versatile depth guy. Look, I'm not here to advocate for Sullivan's job. I'm just saying that was an odd choice given I'd probably take Rodrigues back right now given what we are currently icing.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

D... didn't you guys all really LIKE the 2022 offseason? Kapanen aside?

 

[Empoleon8771]

D... didn't you guys all really LIKE the 2022 offseason? Kapanen aside?

I liked it at the time but can confidently say that it was an absolute mess in hindsight.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

dubas with a great answer on the marriage between data and traditional scouting imo. all about using combo of both to support better decision making and will add more resources if they are required

My new corporate-speak AI app could’ve told you that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The only appreciable difference I see in the SC rosters and recent rosters is age.

If anything this past year's team was one of the best they had on paper for a while and they missed. Whoops.

I mean the third line sucked ass but according to you guys the third line needs desperate attention every single season so I'm not convinced this fanbase even knows what one SHOULD look like. Just bear in mind that whoever it might be will be getting cratered with like 70+ percent DZ starts so best of luck, there. Maybe throw even MORE money at it?

This goes back to my whole issue with Sullivan.

In a cap world, you're never going to have a perfect roster. Even the best teams will have 2 or 3 "less than ideal" players dressing regularly. It's up to the coach to mitigate that by playing them in a role and with ice time that hides the problem rather than makes it worse.

Last season was a microcosm of this. Was our bottom six good? Not really. Hextall dropped the ball. But it's also on the coach to NOT play Jeff Carter like he's prime Jordan Staal. So instead of minimizing the flaws in the roster, Sullivan exaggerated them.

This upcoming season, Dubas (or whoever is ultimately the GM) can make improvements to the roster. But with the salary cap, there's still going to be a couple of spots filled by meh players. It's up to Sullivan not to use those "meh" players as though they're important cogs in the machine, and I don't think he's shown an ability to do that.

 

[Power Surge]

They should have kept ERod to begin with. Letting him walk was just stupid by Hextall.

When you fail to pray to EGod on your knees bad things tend to happen.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

The saddest reality of all is that Evan Rodrigues is a much better player than anybody in Hextall's bottom-6. Hopefully that embarrassingly low bar to clear changes with the FO (and hopefully scouting dept) assembled this summer.

Oh yeah that dude is a massive upgrade on Carter for the defense alone. Probably like a 80/100 away from the puck.
We woulda made the playoffs with him there easily.

 

[BlankFrank416]

A lot of guys *posting through it* in here huh.

shh… Dubas saying Sullivan could coach forever was in reference to him not retiring soon because of age, because the question was about Crosby and co. hanging it up and what that transition would look like.… don’t tell anyone

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Okay, so that was fun. What's next? GM?

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

They should have kept ERod to begin with. Letting him walk was just stupid by Hextall.

I think a big part of that was E-Rod's agent thinking he could game free agency and land his client a huge deal, which backfired spectacularly, and resulted in E-Rod firing him a couple weeks into FA iirc.

But Hextall's moves were a shitshow, pretty much universally. Landing Carter was a low-risk move that worked out in the immediate, but Hextall hard committing to a guy Carter's age who sucked for a long while in LA before being dealt was, uhhhh, not great.

Pretty much the one singular move Hextall made that hasn't been awful was Rakell.

 

[Icarium]

Yeah, the terrible roster is why this team finished behind a hilariously mediocre Islanders team last season. Nothing to do with coaching or being the most mentally fragile Penguins team I can remember. Nope, it was all due to that dastardly Hextall.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

D... didn't you guys all really LIKE the 2022 offseason? Kapanen aside?

I won't be hunting my post history but I think I was anti the Marino and Matheson trades.

I was anti 2 years for Jeff Carter which was just before the playoffs I guess.

I think a big part of the offseason people were happy about and myself included was Malkin and Letang signing.

Positives though I do think Ty Smith can be kept or traded

Petry and Carter ...

Granlund was a bad move but obviously not the offseason.

Not trying to rewrite my history just sharing thoughts.

 

[centipede2233]

I’ve followed dubas tenure with the leafs closely and I can’t imagine a better person than Kyle dubas to lead your team into the next tanking phase. his trade history is impeccable like top hits kadri for Barrie and kerfoot or his penchant love for small hockey players Marchment for malgin. But that’s not all. Expect 1st rders to be traded for injured nick foligno’s at the deadline or his best song catelogue “I love injury prone goalies and can’t play half a season”.

inherited a matthews, nylander and marner on ELC’s and a taveras landed on his lap and got an amazing 1 playoff round win in 5 years against a depleted blue Line in Tampa.

its a great hire, I promise!

 

[Empoleon8771]

This goes back to my whole issue with Sullivan.

In a cap world, you're never going to have a perfect roster. Even the best teams will have 2 or 3 "less than ideal" players dressing regularly. It's up to the coach to mitigate that by playing them in a role and with ice time that hides the problem rather than makes it worse.

Last season was a microcosm of this. Was our bottom six good? Not really. Hextall dropped the ball. But it's also on the coach to NOT play Jeff Carter like he's prime Jordan Staal. So instead of minimizing the flaws in the roster, Sullivan exaggerated them.

This upcoming season, Dubas (or whoever is ultimately the GM) can make improvements to the roster. But with the salary cap, there's still going to be a couple of spots filled by meh players. It's up to Sullivan not to use those "meh" players as though they're important cogs in the machine, and I don't think he's shown an ability to do that.

I agree with you regarding Sullivan's shit job last year but I think last year was also unique in that they had literally no good options for the bottom-6. Sullivan's failures were his complete lack of willingness to try new things even as things weren't going well. But with that being said, I really struggle to see a setup of that bottom-6 from last year that would have yielded a successful, or even passable, bottom-6.

And that's not just on Hextall either. Blueger, McGinn and Kapanen all stunk last year and should have performed substantially better than how they did perform. You can say "it's Hextall's fault for bringing them in" but it's still the player's job to play the games.

 

[Peat]

The only appreciable difference I see in the SC rosters and recent rosters is age.

If anything this past year's team was one of the best they had on paper for a while and they missed. Whoops.

I mean the third line sucked ass but according to you guys the third line needs desperate attention every single season so I'm not convinced this fanbase even knows what one SHOULD look like. Just bear in mind that whoever it might be will be getting cratered with like 70+ percent DZ starts so best of luck, there. Maybe throw even MORE money at it?

Healthy competent goaltending. That is the biggest one. The difference between then and now is the difference between gold and candy foil.

I would rather smear the walls with my own shit than have another long extended conversation about the differences in our rosters from year to year (which is probably a prelude to doing exactly that). Which, in any case, isn't a fantastic way to grade them because you've also got to consider the opposition. I think it's unquestionable that the general quality of the best teams in the east have skyrocketed since the Pens won cups.

But the goaltending thing has to be pointed out. The difference between breakout Murray and the corpse he became as the injuries rolled in, and the rollercoaster that has been Jarry and DeSmith (availability and form) is night and day. And the problem is finding goalies is hard as hell. Once your guy breaks down, good luck fixing that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’ve followed dubas tenure with the leafs closely and I can’t imagine a better person than Kyle dubas to lead your team into the next tanking phase. his trade history is impeccable like top hits kadri for Barrie and kerfoot or his penchant love for small hockey players Marchment for malgin. But that’s not all. Expect 1st rders to be traded for injured nick foligno’s at the deadline or his best song catelogue “I love injury prone goalies and can’t play half a season”.

inherited a matthews, nylander and marner on ELC’s and a taveras landed on his lap and got an amazing 1 playoff round win in 5 years against a depleted blue Line in Tampa.

its a great hire, I promise!

If only the Penguins could have hired Treliving to be their GM!

Go watch you loser franchise waste another year of that "amazing core" and see Matthews leave for an actual winner.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I mean he played in Colorado's top-6 this year too. He was a versatile depth guy. Look, I'm not here to advocate for Sullivan's job. I'm just saying that was an odd choice given I'd probably take Rodrigues back right now given what we are currently icing.

You could have retained Erod and slotted him right in for Rust and saved half the duration and half the cap hit of that terrible deal. We all got to see the results with Erod on a line with Sid for a long cup of coffee, and they were the same or better than with Rust.

You could use analytics or they eye test to argue Erod is the better player, or at worst just as good as the current version of Rust, and he's 2 years younger to boot.

 

[MrBurghundy]

Yeah, the terrible roster is why this team finished behind a hilariously mediocre Islanders team last season. Nothing to do with coaching or being the most mentally fragile Penguins team I can remember. Nope, it was all due to that dastardly Hextall.

If you think this team was the most mentally fragile, I don't think you've been a Pens fan for too long.