Kyle Dubas - - Horrible Asset Mismanagement

[Dekes For Days]

Sidney Crosby had his highest point totals when he was 19, 2nd best season at 22 and 3rd best at 26.
Ovechkin had his highest point totals when he was 22, 2nd best at 23 and 3rd best at 24.
Stamkos has his highest point totals when he was 28, 2nd best at 19 and 3rd best at 20.

That's because you chose players that came up in the league through the early cap era, when PP time was much higher, and you're only looking at raw production, so your perception of their "peaks" is incorrectly skewed towards their earlier years.

 

[koyvoo]

Lol

 

[TDotMassive]

I'm so sick of the excuse that these kids are young, we shouldn't expect too much of them (despite being among the highest paid players in the world), as they're "not in their prime yet" and they will eventually "figure it out". Just for fun, I looked up the stats for some of the biggest stars in the league over the last decade at NHL Stats, History, Scores, & Records | Hockey-Reference.com and here's what I found:

Sidney Crosby had his highest point totals when he was 19, 2nd best season at 22 and 3rd best at 26.

Ovechkin had his highest point totals when he was 22, 2nd best at 23 and 3rd best at 24.

Stamkos has his highest point totals when he was 28, 2nd best at 19 and 3rd best at 20.

According to NHL Stats, History, Scores, & Records | Hockey-Reference.com, this was the age 23 season for both Marner and Matthews. If they're too young to figure it out, I guess they're not the elite players they were thought to be when they were paid like they were the best in the world. Other elite players "figured it out" at a younger age, time to stop making excuses for these guys.

One of these days the apologists are going to wake up and wonder whatever happened to the "prime years". Time goes by fast ...

BRUH... are you serious right now?

They were both TOP-5 (!) players in the league last season and Matthews won the Rocket on pace for like 65 goals in arguably the best offensive season in Leafs post-expansion history, winning the first major trophy in generations. When was the last time the Leafs had TWO of the TOP-5 players in league scoring? Probably never? Not in my 43 year life time at least... ya it was disappointing in the playoffs, its a team dynamic and we probably sweep the Habs if JT doesn't get knocked out in the first period of the series.

Look what happened to McDavid this year after posting up the best offensive season since the Gretzky/Lemieux era. Does McDavid suck now? Oilers should trade him for draft picks??

 

[Donnie740]

Aside from the poor performances individually we also have a coaching problem with the leafs. Keefe and Co. are inexperienced and fail to adapt to opposition tactics especially in the playoffs. Even if Marner and Matthews suddenly find their games in the post season they likely won't be utilized properly by the coaching staff.

Keefe force-fed Marner 25mins per game in the playoffs this year.

I expect his playoff “adjustment” next year will be giving Marner 30mins per game.

Assuming the Leafs can make the playoffs next year.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Keefe force-fed Marner 25mins per game in the playoffs this year.

I expect his playoff “adjustment” next year will be giving Marner 30mins per game.

Assuming the Leafs can make the playoffs next year.

Of course the obvious solution for a struggling player is to give him more ice time and responsibilities while expecting a better outcome.

After game 5 in the playoffs there was this growing disconnect with reality for leafs management and the coaching staff.

Unfortunately that has continued into the off season.

 

[Donnie740]

That's because you chose players that came up in the league through the early cap era, when PP time was much higher, and you're only looking at raw production, so your perception of their "peaks" is incorrectly skewed towards their earlier years.

When do your spreadsheets expect Marner and Matthews to reach their “peak” performance?

Or was that seven game series against Montreal as good as its going to get for them?

 

[TDotMassive]

There’s not a chance in hell of the Oilers losing McDavid as you foolishly proclaimed because they can’t afford him due to the extra $400k Hyman gets.

The only way the Oilers lose McDavid is if he decides he wants out.

And I can absolutely 100% assure you McDavid isn’t going to suddenly demand a trade because Hyman is making $5.5m instead of $5.1m.

That's true for sure... he will ask out because management keeps wasting his prime, not because of Hyman. Then he will rejoin his hometown Leafs and win multiple cups with a McDavid-Matthews 1-2

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Too little too late.

Maybe he should've taken a greater stand against our three $11 million players who keep busting every year in the playoffs instead of going after the low-hanging fruit.

I have criticized Dubas for being soft in negotiations too. The Marner contract was and still is a shocker.

But what's the point of complaining if we can't appreciate a subtle change in his approach? It's good he's showing improvement in negotiations and willing to stick to his ask even if it's a small deal like this one.

A lot of GMs never change and continue to make the same mistakes.

 

[frog]

Dubas loves the soft skilled guys to death, guys like hyman arent his cup of tea

 

[Gary Nylund]

BRUH... are you serious right now?

They were both TOP-5 (!) players in the league last season and Matthews won the Rocket on pace for like 65 goals in arguably the best offensive season in Leafs post-expansion history, winning the first major trophy in generations. When was the last time the Leafs had TWO of the TOP-5 players in league scoring? Probably never? Not in my 43 year life time at least... ya it was disappointing in the playoffs, its a team dynamic and we probably sweep the Habs if JT doesn't get knocked out in the first period of the series.

Look what happened to McDavid this year after posting up the best offensive season since the Gretzky/Lemieux era. Does McDavid suck now? Oilers should trade him for draft picks??

Are you serious? I guess you haven't clued in to the fact that we're talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. I'm not even that down on Matthews but Marner has sucked for three years in a row now.

The fact that the Leafs have been terrible during your lifetime is irrelevant. People keep saying shit like that as if the fact that previous teams have been so bad means that we should be happy that this team is (supposedly) better. If you want to assess this team, compare it to other teams around the league today, that makes a helluva lot more sense than comparing it to teams from the 80's. Do that and you'll see the truth - the Leafs are a good regular season team, not elite but in the 6-10 range but the minute the playoffs start, everything changes and they're just an average, mediocre team and the bigger the stakes, the worse they play.

One last thing - blaming playoff disappointments on the "team dynamic" is one of the worst excuses ever. Ask yourself who's supposed to be setting the tone and leading this team in the playoffs. Is it not the highest priced players who should be doing that and if not, then who?

 

[TDotMassive]

Are you serious? I guess you haven't clued in to the fact that we're talking about the playoffs, not the regular season. I'm not even that down on Matthews but Marner has sucked for three years in a row now.

The fact that the Leafs have been terrible during your lifetime is irrelevant. People keep saying shit like that as if the fact that previous teams have been so bad means that we should be happy that this team is (supposedly) better. If you want to assess this team, compare it to other teams around the league today, that makes a helluva lot more sense than comparing it to teams from the 80's. Do that and you'll see the truth - the Leafs are a good regular season team, not elite but in the 6-10 range but the minute the playoffs start, everything changes and they're just an average, mediocre team and the bigger the stakes, the worse they play.

One last thing - blaming playoff disappointments on the "team dynamic" is one of the worst excuses ever. Ask yourself who's supposed to be setting the tone and leading this team in the playoffs. Is it not the highest priced players who should be doing that and if not, then who?

So by your same assessment McDavid is also a failure and should be traded for picks, his bloated salary is obviously keeping the Oilers from producing a well-balanced winner. He makes even more than Matthews!

I agree M&M needed to take a bigger step up in this year's playoffs, but they're hardly failures... we can still win with them as our core. They're still just entering their real primes here, you act like they're 34 years old and the window is closed.

 

[AvroArrow]

Too little too late.

Maybe he should've taken a greater stand against our three $11 million players who keep busting every year in the playoffs instead of going after the low-hanging fruit.

Agreed he should have, and that topic has been beaten to death. But him not bending over here for Edmonton is a good thing. A 6th rounder to save them 500k in cap is a joke of an offer.

He's made a shit ton of stupid decisions and mistakes, but this right here is not one of them.

 

[BertCorbeau]

His asset management has been fine ... The cost of competing is being ok with letting UFA's walk. They can't all be recaptured for assets while trying to contend.

Dubas has moved draft picks but also done a good job regaining picks as well. So there's been a balance. 30 picks in 4 drafts.

His biggest mistakes were subpar contracts for Matthews' and especially Marner. And signing Tavares magnified the impact of any poor contract. But despite that, there have been some good value and fair contracts elsewhere in the line up.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

You guys are grilling him for not picking up a low end draft pick that would have 80% change or greater or evolving into a nothing burger.

Wow..............

Dubas has done a great job with everything except for Marner and Tavares.

 

[Leaf Fans]

The Dubas Fan Boi apologists will never acknowledge their hero is a total failure who in way over his head trying to be an NHL GM.

They’ll just change their screen names and get new accounts here.

Is that what the Dubas anti fan whiners have done?

 

[Morbo]

Dubas loves the soft skilled guys to death, guys like hyman arent his cup of tea

he offered Hyman an 8 year deal. sure he got outbid, but you don't even offer 8 years for a player who "isn't your cup of tea".

 

[PromisedLand]

it boils down to what do you value more?

500K in cap space or 6th rounder?

valuing 500K in capspace is a signal that the team's cap structure and planning is GARBAGE. 500K is so much lower than a league minimum contract and still 500K is talked about like it is really valuable.

6th round picks are not that valuable either BUT with a 6th round pick you could get lucky with a Datstyuk, Zetterberg or even draft serviceable players like Connor Brown, Johnsson etc....

It is amazing that people are not seeing the big picture. This hell hole is orchestrated by none other than dubas himself

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

Dubas should finally sign Jeremy Bracco, out of the blue to a 6 year/9M per season deal. Just to bolster his image as a tough hombre who gets things done on his schedule.

 

[Gary Nylund]

So by your same assessment McDavid is also a failure and should be traded for picks, his bloated salary is obviously keeping the Oilers from producing a well-balanced winner. He makes even more than Matthews!

I agree M&M needed to take a bigger step up in this year's playoffs, but they're hardly failures... we can still win with them as our core. They're still just entering their real primes here, you act like they're 34 years old and the window is closed.

That's a big leap you just made to McDavid, I hope you didn't hurt yourself with the strain.

I never said we can't win with them, stop with the nonsense already. But do tell, how do you define "real prime"?

You guys are grilling him for not picking up a low end draft pick that would have 80% change or greater or evolving into a nothing burger.

Wow..............

Dubas has done a great job with everything except for Marner and Tavares.

Yeah I wouldn't quite go that far. I do like most of the trades he's made though.

 

[Ashdown2]

serious we are criticisize dubas for a 6th round pick ?

You guys are grilling him for not picking up a low end draft pick that would have 80% change or greater or evolving into a nothing burger.

Wow..............

Dubas has done a great job with everything except for Marner and Tavares.

another anti dubas "hater" thread.
are we seriously evalutating a 6th round pick ?

did the poster come on these boards and praise dubas for trading down and getting multiple 3rd and 4th rounds during the 2018 to 2020 drafts ?

 

[deprw]

If Dubas assumed that we had a long playoffs ahead then he was obviously dead wrong. When you're the guy in charge and you're dead wrong, expect to take some heat. And the offence as a whole goes cold every spring and completely freezes over in deciding games so yes, there was plenty of reason to think it could happen again.

And others have pointed out, there are plenty of stars around the league who are just as young or even younger who's production doesn't take a huge hit the minute the playoffs start. But if they're too young to be counted on when the going gets tough, then it was a massive mistake to pay them as if they were the best players in the league, you can't have it both ways.

Based on playoff Marner is overpaid, that's for sure. I think Matthews gets bit other treatment, because of his hand injuries and having monster season, but Marner has no excuses. Though I don't see it as problem of not trying, I think he cannot handle that pressure of his contract. It was big mistake from Marner camp to demand that, if he really can't handle that. Well how many teams have that young guys as their sole producers? We probably can look to Point, but Tampa Bay is also easier place to play with Kucherov. Rantanen cooled down in that Vegas series also, same way as MacKinnon. Same thing with McDavid.

After that regular season if your GM don't believe in his team he should have disbanded it. It's stupid to held that against Dubas, when everyone has expectations that we contend. If it was depth or something else, but it was our stars that played great season cooling down completely. I believe that isn't their level and Dubas also, you probably point on previous years. So this debate will go circles eventually.

One problem with trading Marner is that you don't get ready players for contending, you trade him for spare parts and futures. We also get cap space but I don't see any free agents that could help us even trough adding multiple for better depth. I think there is no sense to retool this off season, that is something you do next summer if we get same results. I hope we get proper season with no covid breaks or any other shit.

Have a nice summer. I'm out of here. I think what ever Dubas will do this summer people will be butt sore, so it's pointless to waste my time here. Hopefully can enjoy watching regular season, since like many others it's basicly pointless. I want to see us really playing there, not just getting there.

 

[ACC1224]

Based on playoff Marner is overpaid, that's for sure. I think Matthews gets bit other treatment, because of his hand injuries and having monster season, but Marner has no excuses. Though I don't see it as problem of not trying, I think he cannot handle that pressure of his contract. It was big mistake from Marner camp to demand that, if he really can't handle that. Well how many teams have that young guys as their sole producers? We probably can look to Point, but Tampa Bay is also easier place to play with Kucherov. Rantanen cooled down in that Vegas series also, same way as MacKinnon. Same thing with McDavid.

After that regular season if your GM don't believe in his team he should have disbanded it. It's stupid to held that against Dubas, when everyone has expectations that we contend. If it was depth or something else, but it was our stars that played great season cooling down completely. I believe that isn't their level and Dubas also, you probably point on previous years. So this debate will go circles eventually.

One problem with trading Marner is that you don't get ready players for contending, you trade him for spare parts and futures. We also get cap space but I don't see any free agents that could help us even trough adding multiple for better depth. I think there is no sense to retool this off season, that is something you do next summer if we get same results. I hope we get proper season with no covid breaks or any other shit.

Have a nice summer. I'm out of here. I think what ever Dubas will do this summer people will be butt sore, so it's pointless to waste my time here. Hopefully can enjoy watching regular season, since like many others it's basicly pointless. I want to see us really playing there, not just getting there.

Not an excuse but Marner was hurt as well.

 

[OptimusReim]

If we have the same results next season, strong regular season, 1st round exit, all while sticking with the same core and moving depth pieces along the way, will there still be people preaching patience for Dubas's vision?

Can we safely assume this is the test year for Dubas tenure as GM?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not an excuse but Marner was hurt as well.

Not sure butthurt counts.

 

[TDotMassive]

That's a big leap you just made to McDavid, I hope you didn't hurt yourself with the strain.

I never said we can't win with them, stop with the nonsense already. But do tell, how do you define "real prime"?



Yeah I wouldn't quite go that far. I do like most of the trades he's made though.

Generally speaking (obviously lots of exceptions), most players mid 20s... roughly 23-27/28, which our players are just in now. It's not a huge leap to McDavid... in fact, its the opposite. McD is the greatest player since sliced bread... there should be less excuse for him not to rise up and overcome the mighty Winnipeg Jets (lmao)

What a failure he is... not the team, just him, for not single-handedly defeating the Jets.