Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[Trapper]

Yeah.

The 4 out 5 was just an exaggeration for the short term situation. Things are dark around here so Keefe needs a huge winning streak to get his doubters off his back. Otherwise as noted, .600-.650 would have been fine.

What if 2 of Buffalo/Montreal/Tampa/Florida play at a .600 pace. I mean, why is it only assumed we can do something? Especially when history has shown this team rarely does the something it needs.

Right now it seems that there are 2 playoff spots for 5 teams. At present, it looks like the Metro holding wildcards are stronger.

In terms of point percentage, We are like a car going 60. Up ahead the cars are going 70. We are probably going to need to do 80 for a time to overtake. On one goalie poised to play 70+ games.

Yes it’s possible, but I still haven’t seen consistency yet even under Keefe.

The next stage is seeing how the core responds. Forget the backup, the depth players, it’s on the core now. It’s time for night after night consistency. Not some spewed great stats in the middle of losing.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

You're enjoying putting words in my mouth, eh?

Let me rephrase the question(s).

Is Barrie a different defensmen for Toronto than he was for Colorado? No, probably not.

If not, is it not fair to see how poorly Barrie has played for the Leafs, and assume he was equally an inpet defensmen for Colorado? Yes, he is skilled and has historically produced points... but that is mostly because Nathan MacKinnon carried him, and it doesn't mean squat if he can't help keep the puck out of his own net. The kid is a career -71, and is almost always among the bottom 3 or 4 players on his team in that statistic. This is not just a one-off instance... its a regular patern with him....

And to think that he thinks he is worth 7 or 8 million!?! That is completely laughable!

I think he is going to be very unhappy with the offers coming his way next summer unless he goes on a total heater (which I don't see happening)...GM's saw what he looks like at his worst and it's probably a lot worse than they imagined before seeing it happen this year. He has ZERO clue how to play D...and it shows. He might not get the Jake Gardiner treatment...but it won't be much above $5.5 if he wants term.

 

[The Shrike]

The way I see it, Dubas didn't gain control of this team until Babcock was let go. That should have happened shortly after the playoffs ended last season. I hold Shanahan responsible for that oversight.

 

[Pookie]

The way I see it, Dubas didn't gain control of this team until Babcock was let go. That should have happened shortly after the playoffs ended last season. I hold Shanahan responsible for that oversight.

So Dubas has control?

There is no Shanaplan? It’s a Dubaplan?

If so, what the hell does Shanahan do here?

 

[Stephen]

The way I see it, Dubas didn't gain control of this team until Babcock was let go. That should have happened shortly after the playoffs ended last season. I hold Shanahan responsible for that oversight.

It's hard to see it that way. Dubas has had full control of the draft, full control of offseason acqusitions and control of the cap structure. He signed all of the Big 4 contracts. If anything, it feels like Babcock was the one being erased from the program.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

Mark me down as concerned. In the last year and a half the team’s performance has regressed and the cap situation has made it difficult to improve going forward.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

It's hard to see it that way. Dubas has had full control of the draft, full control of offseason acqusitions and control of the cap structure. He signed all of the Big 4 contracts. If anything, it feels like Babcock was the one being erased from the program.

It's kinda easy to see it though. You may have heard this saying at some point in the past month but: It's useless to buy a Ferrari for a race if you have zero idea how to use a Ferrari and refuse to drive past the speeding limits.

I blame Dubas and Shanny for that. They both must have known Babcock was never going to work with how this roster was designed to play. It was wishful thinking to think it would work.

 

[Stephen]

It's kinda easy to see it though. You may have heard this saying at some point in the past month but: It's useless to buy a Ferrari for a race if you have zero idea how to use a Ferrari and refuse to drive past the speeding limits.

I blame Dubas and Shanny for that. They both must have known Babcock was never going to work with how this roster was designed to play. It was wishful thinking to think it would work.

I like the car analogy, but I think it's more like Dubas purposely built a Ferrari for Babcock to drive in the Dakar Rally. And now with Keefe on board they have to get back onto a good road to make this work.

Babcock was clearly not the right man for the job, but at the same time I have my concerns that Dubas' Leafs are designed and built properly.

 

[Pi]

Yeah.

The 4 out 5 was just an exaggeration for the short term situation. Things are dark around here so Keefe needs a huge winning streak to get his doubters off his back. Otherwise as noted, .600-.650 would have been fine.

What doubters? It takes like a month to implement a system. I'm just glad they look like a hockey team while changes are being made.

5-3 isnt bad but you are right. We need to string together some good point streaks if not wins.

 

[Madap]

With Andersen - 106 point pace (SC contender level)

With backup - 6 pt pace

So 62 gms with Andersen and 20 with BU based on current paces equals about 82 points

The BUG could easily be the difference in missing the playoffs

Sure, but I find it extremely unlikely that Hutchinson is this bad for the rest of the season. I doubt the team in front of him will be as bad as well now that we have Keefe as a head coach.

We could also squeeze in a couple extra games out of Andersen if it comes down to the wire.

 

[BertCorbeau]

What doubters? It takes like a month to implement a system. I'm just glad they look like a hockey team while changes are being made.

5-3 isnt bad but you are right. We need to string together some good point streaks if not wins.

It's simple - at this point the Leafs need to play like a solid, if not good, playoff team to make the playoffs .. They can't ride a hot start like they did last year and coast into the dance.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

I like the car analogy, but I think it's more like Dubas purposely built a Ferrari for Babcock to drive in the Dakar Rally. And now with Keefe on board they have to get back onto a good road to make this work.

Babcock was clearly not the right man for the job, but at the same time I have my concerns that Dubas' Leafs are designed and built properly.

And that's totally fair. I don't think any fan is sure if it's going to work or not.

But as Dubas said, that philosophy has been doubted at every level and it's worked at every level he's done it. Now the NHL is the top league to prove it in, so we'll see how it goes. I just think everyone's overreacting. It's been around 8 games under Keefe now, so let's wait and see how it works. Players don't learn a new system just with the snap of the fingers. I've loved it so far, other than the Philly game, and can't wait for the rest of the season.

 

[Durrr]

Need to play .647 the rest of the way to get to 98 points.

Except we don't need 98 points unless 2 of the 5 teams around us in the Atlantic end up with 97. It's equally tough of a achievement for them as us. It's very likely that 3rd in the Atlantic gets in with around 94 points with the current pace of the division.

 

[Durrr]

It's kinda easy to see it though. You may have heard this saying at some point in the past month but: It's useless to buy a Ferrari for a race if you have zero idea how to use a Ferrari and refuse to drive past the speeding limits.

I blame Dubas and Shanny for that. They both must have known Babcock was never going to work with how this roster was designed to play. It was wishful thinking to think it would work.

The problem is they hired an over rated coach on a monster 8 year deal before they actually knew what this team would look like, then got stuck with said decision because of politics and optics. There isn't a owner/board/company on the planet who would have given the green light to set 40 million on fire after the Leaf's had their most successful seasons in 1.5-2 decades.

Now we even know Tananbaum was involved in his hiring and was friends with Babs. This guy wasn't going anywhere until the results absolutely demanded it.

 

[zeke]

People forget that we were on a 100+ pace before the 6gm losing streak and are at a 100+ pace since.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The problem is they hired an over rated coach on a monster 8 year deal before they actually knew what this team would look like, then got stuck with said decision because of politics and optics. There isn't a owner/board/company on the planet who would have given the green light to set 40 million on fire after the Leaf's had their most successful seasons in 1.5-2 decades.

Now we even know Tananbaum was involved in his hiring and was friends with Babs. This guy wasn't going anywhere until the results absolutely demanded it.

Bingo

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The way I see it, Dubas didn't gain control of this team until Babcock was let go. That should have happened shortly after the playoffs ended last season. I hold Shanahan responsible for that oversight.

This.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

People forget that we were on a 100+ pace before the 6gm losing streak and are at a 100+ pace since.

Quoting you....

Sample size

 

[nuck]

The problem is they hired an over rated coach on a monster 8 year deal before they actually knew what this team would look like, then got stuck with said decision because of politics and optics. There isn't a owner/board/company on the planet who would have given the green light to set 40 million on fire after the Leaf's had their most successful seasons in 1.5-2 decades.

Now we even know Tananbaum was involved in his hiring and was friends with Babs. This guy wasn't going anywhere until the results absolutely demanded it.

The coach wasn't the problem. His salary isn't in the team's cap.The club was one period from taking out last season's Stanley Cup finalist who had finished ahead of the Leafs in the standings. If you want to give Kadri a pass for his a-hole antics fine, but I think they could have taken the Bs out in 6 last year if NK keeps it in his pants. Even if you don't agree you, know that is at least an arguable point. I have no problem with Babcock's firing but they were really close to a very different outcome the last two seasons. It just seems too convenient to pin it on him when they were a game 7 club the last two series.

 

[Menzinger]

I'm not sure it matters much myself, wasted cap space is wasted cap space no matter who you waste it on.

The difference qa I see it (and i folllw the same.thinking as Zeke,) - dont exsctly love all contracts but fine with some being higher than ithers).

Is that you can always replace a depth forward with another player without skipping a beat. Theres nothing that replace star/elite talent. So paying a bit more for top tier assets is less of a negative than essentially losing the asset for pinching pennies

 

[ToneDog]

Except we don't need 98 points unless 2 of the 5 teams around us in the Atlantic end up with 97. It's equally tough of a achievement for them as us. It's very likely that 3rd in the Atlantic gets in with around 94 points with the current pace of the division.

Sure but 98 and 97 points were needed to make the playoffs the last 2 years.

 

[mapleleaf979]

This team isn't close to being ready for the Bruins even if in a playoff spot. All big teams that can cycle the puck , feast on the Leafs whenever they want too. What has Dubas done to get a tough D-man to defend the cycle. Kadri could have gotten them that. Dubas was robbed in the Kadri trade. A soft D-man rental and an undersized 3rd line winger he re-signed for 3.5 million. The team is capped out with no money for back up goalie, Dubas misjudged the backup with Sparks, Hutchinson and then left no money to fix it (3 mistakes) and no first round picks.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's hard to see it that way. Dubas has had full control of the draft, full control of offseason acqusitions and control of the cap structure. He signed all of the Big 4 contracts. If anything, it feels like Babcock was the one being erased from the program.

It's not that hard. Dubas acquired Tyson Barrie and Babcock played him like Roman Polak and told him he had to re-invent himself. That sort of thing kind of de-rails your plans.

 

[horner]

I like the car analogy, but I think it's more like Dubas purposely built a Ferrari for Babcock to drive in the Dakar Rally. And now with Keefe on board they have to get back onto a good road to make this work.

Babcock was clearly not the right man for the job, but at the same time I have my concerns that Dubas' Leafs are designed and built properly.

they are built for the regular season .
not as long playoff run.

 

[horner]

until he fixed the d , we are not going anywhere