Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

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Your level of satisfaction with Kyle Dubas' performance to date

  • Happy

    Votes: 213 39.2%
  • Adequate

    Votes: 161 29.7%
  • Concerned

    Votes: 169 31.1%

  • Total voters
    543
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1. Johnson is better then Brown, and Brown was being played on the fourth line under Babs. Absolutely a spot you have to shed salary from when youre that tight to the ceiling. He made the right choice. See #3.

2. Tyson Barrie is a 3rd pairing defender? I'm not big on this trade either, but let's not get carried away here and pretend that Barrie isn't a #2/3 defender in today's NHL. Kerfoot is the kind of center you need to have when you have JT/AM sucking up 22 million combined as #1/2. See the Penguins with Jordan Stall, and how they had to ship him out. Leaf's were far weaker on D then up the middle, makes perfect sense in theory but we're really missing Kadri's compete right now.

3. Nylander is not overpaid, but I do agree that he could have saved 2-3 million on both AM/MM deals combined and been in a spot to keep Brown and get a goalie.

4. You think a hypothetical late first is worth as much as our 2nd line wing depth? That first should have been irrelevant this year based on our spot last year, and this team can't be put together with Marleau's 6 mil on the books.

1) Debatable. The fact that its debateable means that there probably isn't a 1.6 M difference between the two players (which is what Dubas paid).

2) #2/#3 defensmen that score about 0.35ish P/GP, typically aren't a liability defensively like Barrie is/has been. I'm not hating Kerfoot at all, just think 3.5 mil is a big much to pay for a player of his caliber.

3) Nylander was overpaid, but he might play up to the contract....

4) A hypothetical late first is easily worth more than a 3rd line winger (which Johnsson is). Johnsson is already being surpassed by guys like Engvall in our depth chart.
 
That was last game( actually 85 percent) and it’s trending this way of late. For instance 68 game prior, 73 game before that, he’s trusting him less in our end. So keep lol.

Gm1: 7ozs, 3nzs, 3dzs
Gm2: 5ozs, 2nzs, 1dzs
Gm3: 4ozs, 3nzs, 0dzs
Gm4: 1ozs, 5nzs, 3dzs
Gm5: 6ozs, 2nzs, 3dzs
Gm6: 1ozs, 2nzs, 1dzs
Gm7: 6ozs, 3nzs, 2dzs
Gm8: 3ozs, 4nzs, 0dzs
 
Gm1: 7ozs, 3nzs, 3dzs
Gm2: 5ozs, 2nzs, 1dzs
Gm3: 4ozs, 3nzs, 0dzs
Gm4: 1ozs, 5nzs, 3dzs
Gm5: 6ozs, 2nzs, 3dzs
Gm6: 1ozs, 2nzs, 1dzs
Gm7: 6ozs, 3nzs, 2dzs
Gm8: 3ozs, 4nzs, 0dzs
So he’s had 3 dzs starts his last three games, thanks for verifying my point.
 
Definitely concerned that he has refused to address the glaring issues with the backup, grit, and team defense, despite having a plethora of assets to do so with. At least Babcock, Marleau & Zaitsev are gone.
 
I think a lot of people are too hung up on winning the cup as the be all and end all of management success. On average you can do this once every 32 years now. Every team has smart people working there, every scout knows who the very best kids are. I think a better way of evaluating management is grading the quality of the assets they manage to keep. If I owned the Leafs I would be looking for management to field a team that had a chance to win, and hope like hell it happened each year. If I was grading Dubas this year and the Leafs missed the playoffs, I wouldn't be ready to fire him as long as he sold off the expiring assets for good value and shuffled the deck for next year. On the other hand If he went nuts expending good assets on deadline acquisitions, plus kept the expiring UFAs and didn't have playoff success I would be looking at replacing him. I think its a mistake to say that you're only happy if they win cup. You should be happy with continual playoff appearances, really happy if your team frequently makes it past the 1st round and thrilled if they win it all.

Leafs were a last place overall team when Lou Lam drafted franchise centre Auston Matthews with the #1OA pick. The very next there was a +26 point improvement in the standings and a playoff birth against Washington which resulted in a 1st round loss.. Team improvement was significant and impactful so all of Leaf Nation would have been thrilled or "happy" with those results particularly after going nearly a decade with no playoffs. While it was a loss the improvement and jump in competitiveness from last to playoffs would earn that grade as a good start.

The following year under Lou Lam the Leafs organization set an All-time franchise best 105 points and all time wins in a season.. Unfortunately it resulted in a hard fought but 1st round exit again. Nobody after having the previous year mark of #1 round loss matched would be happy and at best it would be "adaquate" as his high mark, but with disappointment.

So this is ground zero as it resulted in a GM change in hopes that it would produce results >> 1st round loss. The goal is the Cup and falling short could and did result in change.

That is Dubas starting point by which we would start grading his body of work and team success upon what he inherited and where he takes the team going forward.

In his 1st year Dubas produced a 100 point team and played the same opponent Boston and produced the identical 1st round loss, that got the last GM replaced.. At best that could only be viewed as breakeven or using the terms here as "adequate".. Making a GM change and producing the same results could not be viewed as "happy" results nor GM performance. We already had those results before the GM change.

Now we're in year #2 post GM change when evaluating Dubas and Leafs currently sit #23 out of 31 teams on points% and out of a playoff spot and projected/pacing for 84 points and missed playoffs .. .As of today the only realistic way to grade that would be "concerned" should the Leafs miss the playoffs, and if they do sneak in and again lose in round #1 for the 2nd time then the best grade one could give this is season is "adequate" at best.

The only way to achieve a "happy" grade with team improvement at its core on this current year would be playing into round #2 or beyond.

Dubas is not being graded on trades nor signings nor daily transactions as they're only subset transactions of the greater goal of advancing the team closer to the Stanley Cup.. Nobody will care if a player is overpaid or if a trade was good or bad individually, if the TEAM succeeds as that is the only measure by which ultimately the GM job will be evaluated on job performance. His livelihood and job security is based on that.
 
1) Debatable. The fact that its debateable means that there probably isn't a 1.6 M difference between the two players (which is what Dubas paid).

2) #2/#3 defensmen that score about 0.35ish P/GP, typically aren't a liability defensively like Barrie is/has been. I'm not hating Kerfoot at all, just think 3.5 mil is a big much to pay for a player of his caliber.

3) Nylander was overpaid, but he might play up to the contract....

4) A hypothetical late first is easily worth more than a 3rd line winger (which Johnsson is). Johnsson is already being surpassed by guys like Engvall in our depth chart.

You're right, what was Dubas thinking trading for Barrie. It's like he didn't even look at his October 2019 stats!
 
and 4 in his first 3 games.
If you can’t see Keefe is using Barrie Reilly offensively, protecting them defensively, I don’t know what to tell you? I was applauding Keefe playing to our strengths, limiting our weaknesses, using the players he has to best effect. Barrie is a liability defensively, always has been, deal. To argue otherwise...
 
If you can’t see Keefe is using Barrie Reilly offensively, protecting them defensively, I don’t know what to tell you? I was applauding Keefe playing to our strengths, limiting our weaknesses, using the players he has to best effect. Barrie is a liability defensively, always has been, deal. To argue otherwise...

I posted the numbers.
 
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You're right, what was Dubas thinking trading for Barrie. It's like he didn't even look at his October 2019 stats!

You're enjoying putting words in my mouth, eh?

Let me rephrase the question(s).

Is Barrie a different defensmen for Toronto than he was for Colorado? No, probably not.

If not, is it not fair to see how poorly Barrie has played for the Leafs, and assume he was equally an inpet defensmen for Colorado? Yes, he is skilled and has historically produced points... but that is mostly because Nathan MacKinnon carried him, and it doesn't mean squat if he can't help keep the puck out of his own net. The kid is a career -71, and is almost always among the bottom 3 or 4 players on his team in that statistic. This is not just a one-off instance... its a regular patern with him....

And to think that he thinks he is worth 7 or 8 million!?! That is completely laughable!
 
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How about losing a trade for a backup goalie that's going to dramatically increase the chances of making the playoffs?
If the only difference between us making and missing the playoffs is our backup goalie, then we won't win in the playoffs.

I do think this team is good enough to win, and I have very little doubt that we will make the playoffs even if we stick with Hutchinson. If the right trade is out there to get a solid backup, then do it. But don't make a trade that we clearly lose only for a backup.
 
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You're enjoying putting words in my mouth, eh?

Let me rephrase the question(s).

Is Barrie a different defensmen for Toronto than he was for Colorado? No, probably not.

If not, is it not fair to see how poorly Barrie has played for the Leafs, and assume he was equally an inpet defensmen for Colorado? Yes, he is skilled and has historically produced points... but that is mostly because Nathan MacKinnon carried him, and it doesn't mean squat if he can't help keep the puck out of his own net. The kid is a career -71, and is almost always among the bottom 3 or 4 players on his team in that statistic. This is not just a one-off instance... its a regular patern with him....

And to think that he thinks he is worth 7 or 8 million!?! That is completely laughable!

No, I would not describe taking a 31 game sample size over an 8 season sample size to be "fair". Nathan Mackinnon carried him? Are you forgetting that Mackinnon was a 50 point forward until two years ago?
 
If the only difference between us making and missing the playoffs is our backup goalie, then we won't win in the playoffs.

I do think this team is good enough to win, and I have very little doubt that we will make the playoffs even if we stick with Hutchinson. If the right trade is out there to get a solid backup, then do it. But don't make a trade that we clearly lose only for a backup.

I also believe that we will make the playoffs but it's by no means a slam dunk. What if we have some more injury issues? No team is immune to that and because of our poor start, our margin for error is almost non-existent.

Not sure why there's so much talk about losing a trade. Backups aren't worth their weight in gold or anything and if a team has one to spare and can use it to improve elsewhere, I don't see them holding out for a homerun before making the deal. I also think Dubas has done pretty well with trades so far so I'm not worried about him getting fleeced at all.
 
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You're enjoying putting words in my mouth, eh?

Let me rephrase the question(s).

Is Barrie a different defensmen for Toronto than he was for Colorado? No, probably not.

If not, is it not fair to see how poorly Barrie has played for the Leafs, and assume he was equally an inpet defensmen for Colorado? Yes, he is skilled and has historically produced points... but that is mostly because Nathan MacKinnon carried him, and it doesn't mean squat if he can't help keep the puck out of his own net. The kid is a career -71, and is almost always among the bottom 3 or 4 players on his team in that statistic. This is not just a one-off instance... its a regular patern with him....

And to think that he thinks he is worth 7 or 8 million!?! That is completely laughable!

No, that seems really dumb. Next question.
 
Biggest mistake Dubas made was not firing Babcock in the offseason. But maybe he needed approval to go through with it.

Overall, I'm happy with Dubas. Gotta give him some time.

Yeah. Need to win 1 of the next 2 and we hit the .600 mark per 10 games under Keefe.

If this was beginning of the season we'd be perfectly fine cruising at .600. Literally just need one .700 10 game stretch otherwise to hit 100 points.

Only reason .600 isn't okay right now is because of the huge hole Babcock dug us.

Keefe is at a disadvantage because he needs a huge winning streak to offset Babcock having no idea what to do when Marner got injured. If he doesn't win 4 out of every 5 to get us back into a comfortable spot in the atlantic everyone will call for his head.
 
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Yeah. Need to win 1 of the next 2 and we hit the .600 mark per 10 games under Keefe.

If this was beginning of the season we'd be perfectly fine cruising at .600. Literally just need one .700 10 game stretch otherwise to hit 100 points.

Only reason .600 isn't okay right now is because of the huge hole Babcock dug us.

Keefe is at a disadvantage because he needs a huge winning streak to offset Babcock having no idea what to do when Marner got injured. If he doesn't win 4 out of every 5 to get us back into a comfortable spot in the atlantic everyone will call for his head.

We're 14-7-3 under Andersen. If we had a .400-.500 back up goalie, we'd still be in good shape despite playing like dog shit for 22 games under Babcock.
 
If the only difference between us making and missing the playoffs is our backup goalie, then we won't win in the playoffs

With Andersen - 106 point pace (SC contender level)

With backup - 6 pt pace

So 62 gms with Andersen and 20 with BU based on current paces equals about 82 points

The BUG could easily be the difference in missing the playoffs
 
We're 14-7-3 under Andersen. If we had a .400-.500 back up goalie, we'd still be in good shape despite playing like dog **** for 22 games under Babcock.

That is definitely true. Didn't consider that (Well I mean I have been considering this, but not in the sense that I have been giving Dubas any blame).

You are right. That is on Dubas. Should have addressed this a while ago.
 
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Yeah. Need to win 1 of the next 2 and we hit the .600 mark per 10 games under Keefe.

If this was beginning of the season we'd be perfectly fine cruising at .600. Literally just need one .700 10 game stretch otherwise to hit 100 points.

Only reason .600 isn't okay right now is because of the huge hole Babcock dug us.

Keefe is at a disadvantage because he needs a huge winning streak to offset Babcock having no idea what to do when Marner got injured. If he doesn't win 4 out of every 5 to get us back into a comfortable spot in the atlantic everyone will call for his head.

Need to play .647 the rest of the way to get to 98 points.
 
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Need to play .647 the rest of the way to get to 98 points.

Yeah.

The 4 out 5 was just an exaggeration for the short term situation. Things are dark around here so Keefe needs a huge winning streak to get his doubters off his back. Otherwise as noted, .600-.650 would have been fine.
 
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