Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[AllDay28]

Excited for Dubas to leave and Burke to return and the Leafs never make the playoffs again. Can't wait!

 

[Antropovsky]

We all would have liked to see more playoff success. No argument there. But some people have completely lost perspective and are taking for granted how good the Leafs have been the last 5 years. Blah blah inherited 105 point blah.

After the 2017-2018 another gm inherited (from himself) a 114 point team with 4 young stars up front, 2 great blossoming defenders, and one of the premier goalies in the game. They're an up and down bubble team that missed the playoffs last year

Your missing some facts.

1) Laine, Trouba and Kane didn't want to play in Winnipeg. A gm can't change the city. I don't blame them, I lived in Winnipeg.
2) Connor, Schiefele, Ehlers,Morrissey are on 7 and 8 year contracts at reasonable prices.
3) Wheeler was 5 years younger in 2018 and now is 36
4) the Dubois trade was excellent but Dubois doesn't want to play on Winnipeg
5) No free agent wants to play in Winnipeg

Now Leafs Dubas
-Inherited Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Rielly
- Brodie wanted to come to Toronto because of family
- Giordano apparently wanted to come to only Toronto
- Tavares was only picking Toronto
- Oreilly apparently requested Toronto

Dubas is the GM of Canadas "hockey mecca" as McDavid put it and so he doesn't have much problems luring free agent or keeping his players. However, he still apparently needed to sign Marner and Matthews to two of the most incredible contracts where he didn't get either of them to sign 8 or 7 year contracts, likely overpaid both AND paid most of the money to them up front.

Dubas seems to have done well with drafting and his latest trading but he essentially inherited Brodie, Giordano, Tavares, Nylander, Woll, Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Holl, Liljegren because they were already in the organization or because he's the GM of the leafs...

Let's pump the breaks on giving him too much credit.

Here's his additions to the roster he inherited:

Offense: Jarnkrok, Bunting, Acciari, Aston-Reese, Lafferty, Kerfoot

Defense: McCabe, Gustaffsson, Timmins

Goaltending: Samsonov, Murray

Not all that impressive in the least and I'm a Dubas fan.

 

[Gabriel426]

It’s not about being a better choice, I don’t think that matters at all to Kyle. What makes the leafs a better choice? Last time I’ve checked this core hasn’t won shit all. While both the pens and blues cores have won cups and know how to win. And I also don’t think the Blues and Pens jobs will be the only jobs available. Ottawa could be up for grabs, same with Calgary. We could see quite a few vacancies in the next few months.

Having good players isn’t everything. Especially if they can’t win no matter who you put around them. That would be enough to drive any GM a way. If you listen to a lot of interviews with executives and even head coaches, after a while they want new challenges. Even if they have good teams. For an executive being able to build is what they live for, so it doesn’t matter if the team is shit. They are going to do their job and try and build a winner.

Lastly like I mentioned before, if the leafs lose in the first round again and MLSE offers an extension, if I’m Kyle I’m not signing that right away. I’m going to explore my options now and decide whether I really want my legacy as a GM to be attached to a core group who cannot win playoff rounds.

The goalie who won for the last two Cups for the Pens play for the Leafs.
The Blues core who won the Cup pretty much left the team in Pietra and ROR.
All the current Leafs are either drafted, signed as UFA, extended as RFA or UFA, traded by Dubas, plus the Coach is hand picked by Dubas. So if the Leafs can’t get out of the 1st round, we can all
say it is players not rising their game-which I agree, but also it shows Dubas betted on the wrong horses. To me if Dubas choose to leave, it is on him because he knows he betted on the wrong players and couldn’t get out. Instead of facing the challenge of trading out the core and bring in new core piece to built a winner.

Anyhow, I do think Dubas got choices but so do the Leafs. If the paid is the same plus the position is the same, Leafs is the prefer choice based on familiarity and the fact that his young family are already in Toronto.

 

[Menzinger]

Your missing some facts.

1) Laine, Trouba and Kane didn't want to play in Winnipeg. A gm can't change the city. I don't blame them, I lived in Winnipeg.
2) Connor, Schiefele, Ehlers,Morrissey are on 7 and 8 year contracts at reasonable prices.
3) Wheeler was 5 years younger in 2018 and now is 36
4) the Dubois trade was excellent but Dubois doesn't want to play on Winnipeg
5) No free agent wants to play in Winnipeg

Now Leafs Dubas
-Inherited Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Rielly
- Brodie wanted to come to Toronto because of family
- Giordano apparently wanted to come to only Toronto
- Tavares was only picking Toronto
- Oreilly apparently requested Toronto

Dubas is the GM of Canadas "hockey mecca" as McDavid put it and so he doesn't have much problems luring free agent or keeping his players. .

Though at the same.time, it's not as if the Leafs historically have a track record of recruiting guys who wanted to "come home" or even high profile free agents (who signed as a free agent l between 2003-2018 even remotely comes close to being a guy at Tavares' level? Hell, even a Brodie level guy?). I'd say for the vast majority of the salary cap era NHL the Leafs have NOT been a sought after destination for guys

Even Tavares didn't just come as soon as he was able. He listened to several teams multi hour pitches before making his decision. He may have had personal connections to the city, but you won't find anything in the media suggesting he was a lock to come.

 

[TML Dynasty]

Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

 

[ToneDog]

Though at the same.time, it's not as if the Leafs historically have a track record of recruiting guys who wanted to "come home" or even high profile free agents (who signed as a free agent l between 2003-2018 even remotely clowe comes close to being a guy at Tavares' level? Hell, even a Brodie level guy?). I'd say for the vast majority of the salary cap era NHL the Leafs have NOT been a sought after destination for guys

Even Tavares didn't just come as soon as he was able. He listened to several teams multi hour pitches before making his decision. He may have had personal connections to the city, but you won't find anything in the media suggesting he was a lock to come.

Have we lost anybody on the level of Laine, Trouba and Kane that did not want to be in Toronto ?? We lost Hyman and Kadri who bled blue and white though.

View attachment 689479

Said it before, Shanny seems to have distanced himself from Dubas. Can't remember the last time there were seen together in the press box. Given the choice, I keep Shanny.

 

[notbias]

View attachment 689479
Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

If this is true and I am Dubas, I am leaving regardless.

 

[Ciao]

Your missing some facts.

1) Laine, Trouba and Kane didn't want to play in Winnipeg. A gm can't change the city. I don't blame them, I lived in Winnipeg.
2) Connor, Schiefele, Ehlers,Morrissey are on 7 and 8 year contracts at reasonable prices.
3) Wheeler was 5 years younger in 2018 and now is 36
4) the Dubois trade was excellent but Dubois doesn't want to play on Winnipeg
5) No free agent wants to play in Winnipeg

Now Leafs Dubas
-Inherited Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Rielly
- Brodie wanted to come to Toronto because of family
- Giordano apparently wanted to come to only Toronto
- Tavares was only picking Toronto
- Oreilly apparently requested Toronto

Dubas is the GM of Canadas "hockey mecca" as McDavid put it and so he doesn't have much problems luring free agent or keeping his players. However, he still apparently needed to sign Marner and Matthews to two of the most incredible contracts where he didn't get either of them to sign 8 or 7 year contracts, likely overpaid both AND paid most of the money to them up front.

Dubas seems to have done well with drafting and his latest trading but he essentially inherited Brodie, Giordano, Tavares, Nylander, Woll, Matthews, Marner, Rielly, Holl, Liljegren because they were already in the organization or because he's the GM of the leafs...

Let's pump the breaks on giving him too much credit.

Here's his additions to the roster he inherited:

Offense: Jarnkrok, Bunting, Acciari, Aston-Reese, Lafferty, Kerfoot

Defense: McCabe, Gustaffsson, Timmins

Goaltending: Samsonov, Murray

Not all that impressive in the least and I'm a Dubas fan.

You haven't mentioned that before the Tavares signing, players from the GTA generally didn't want to come home to Toronto.

Tavares was followed by Spezza, Brodie, Giordano and O'Reilly. That was a sea change that I think was attributable to the change in management. Before Dubas arrived, that just wasn't happening.

If this is true and I am Dubas, I am leaving regardless.

Kyle Dubas has been hung out to dry, and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he walks.

Maybe Matthews and Nylander would follow him?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Though at the same.time, it's not as if the Leafs historically have a track record of recruiting guys who wanted to "come home" or even high profile free agents (who signed as a free agent l between 2003-2018 even remotely comes close to being a guy at Tavares' level? Hell, even a Brodie level guy?). I'd say for the vast majority of the salary cap era NHL the Leafs have NOT been a sought after destination for guys

Even Tavares didn't just come as soon as he was able. He listened to several teams multi hour pitches before making his decision. He may have had personal connections to the city, but you won't find anything in the media suggesting he was a lock to come.

Do you think it was Tavares just being open to hearing all his options or lighten the blow to the NYI? He did take the quickest route after his ELC, an extension right to UFA.

 

[Stephen]

Pittsburgh isn’t the only job that could be available to him. I could see Dubas being courted by Ottawa with new ownership. And it really depends on his goals really. If one of his goals is to become a president then I can see that job being attractive to him. Dubas is a really good GM who knows how to acquire picks. Not only that he’s good at drafting with limited resources. So I don’t think Pittsburgh is all that unattractive.

Sure, yep. He could be attracted to the big city, bright lights of Ottawa too.

 

[TMLegend]

Great post!

I'm sure someone will come back with "yeah but they've one more playoff rounds" but bit whoop. Compare the jobs that those 2 GM's have done and it's no contest, Dubas wins in a landslide.

Lol

Excited for Dubas to leave and Burke to return and the Leafs never make the playoffs again. Can't wait!

Hyperbole rarely works in getting your point across.

 

[Stephen]

You haven't mentioned that before the Tavares signing, players from the GTA generally didn't want to come home to Toronto.

Tavares was followed by Spezza, Brodie, Giordano and O'Reilly. That was a sea change that I think was attributable to the change in management. Before Dubas arrived, that just wasn't happening.

Toronto and Ontario guys routinely came back to the Toronto Maple Leafs before John Tavares. They just weren't necessarily effective or at the superstar level anymore or were a lower level of player to begin with: Jason Allison, Eric Lindros, Jeff O'Neill, Mike Peca, Daniel Winnik, David Clarkson, Paul Ranger, Brad Boyes, Shawn Matthias, Jay McClement, Zach Hyman, Rich Clune.

 

[TMLegend]

View attachment 689479
Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

That would be the 2nd person Dubas has had a power struggle with if true. First Babcock, now Shanahan?

 

[Menzinger]

Do you think it was Tavares just being open to hearing all his options or lighten the blow to the NYI? He did take the quickest route after his ELC, an extension right to UFA.

I think the simplest explanation for him listening to all those pitches was he was still making his mind up

 

[nuck]

Said it before, Shanny seems to have distanced himself from Dubas. Can't remember the last time there were seen together in the press box. Given the choice, I keep Shanny.

If so it makes sense. I believe he spent a lot of his personal capital keeping Dubas' job after the playoff results and maybe just doesn't want to follow him out the door. I have a hard time believing Shanny had much to do with the trades and signings though. He doesn't have the knowledge to be instructing the GM. Having said that, I wonder if the absence of spending last year wasn't the Prez getting cold feet about bleeding more assets like the Foligno deal and this year he backs off because he knows the lineup was a bit light. So his direction to Kyle goes from don't spend, to okay go ahead. I could see that level of intrusion. I doubt it was Shanny that said don't include Kerf in the O'Rielly trade to free up more cap space.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That would be the 2nd person Dubas has had a power struggle with if true. First Babcock, now Shanahan?

Seravelli has actually been pretty mediocre as an insider since the expansion draft.

I think the simplest explanation for him listening to all those pitches was he was still making his mind up

Probably, I have heard things like it was always going to be Toronto but at the same time, I had people I trusted a lot telling me Stamkos was a slam dunk.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

View attachment 689479
Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

Seravalli is a know nothing mook. He’s just stirring the pot because he’s still sore about being blindsided by the Leafs trading for O’Reilly.

 

[Antropovsky]

Though at the same.time, it's not as if the Leafs historically have a track record of recruiting guys who wanted to "come home" or even high profile free agents (who signed as a free agent l between 2003-2018 even remotely comes close to being a guy at Tavares' level? Hell, even a Brodie level guy?). I'd say for the vast majority of the salary cap era NHL the Leafs have NOT been a sought after destination for guys

Even Tavares didn't just come as soon as he was able. He listened to several teams multi hour pitches before making his decision. He may have had personal connections to the city, but you won't find anything in the media suggesting he was a lock to come.

It's been reported that Tavares turned down a couple million more per year. By San Jose to sign in Toronto. Of course he's going to give others a chance, but the fact that he turned down significantly more money, from a desirable city (San Jose) with a competitive roster tells you that his mind was set on Toronto. As reported his wife also is from Toronto area. Who knows, maybe he was just trying to get the best offer possible from Toronto and as a result played the field. Which also males a lot of sense. I recall a poster on HFBoards posting that he knew the family and that Tavares would be signing in Toronto.

In addition to wanting to be near home, and play for a historic franchise with boatloads of cash contributing to amenity perks, players reported that they wanted to come to the Leafs because they also saw that the leafs had the talent to win (as did everyone else). Those players were Nylander, Matthews, Marner and Rielly, at the time Andersen was also known to be pretty good. All of which were here before Dubas took over. Tavares, Oreilly, Brodie didn't come to play with Kerfoot, Campbell, Engvall, Holl etc.

 

[garce]

Seravalli is a no nothing mook. He’s just stirring the pot because he’s still sore about being blindsided by the Leafs trading for O’Reilly.

He’s been grinding the Leafs since he left TSN for whatever the reason.

 

[Antropovsky]

Seravalli is a know nothing mook. He’s just stirring the pot because he’s still sore about being blindsided by the Leafs trading for O’Reilly.

Maybe Shanahan wanted Dubas to make the roster tougher? It was reported that Shanahan wanted Matthees to be Captaon, while Dubas wanted Tavares. On hindsight I think Matthews was the better choice myself. Tavares is great, but I don't think he has the personality to lead, he would've been a better assistant captain. I also think Matthews would've raised to the occasion and would've taken the captaincy role seriously and pushed his teammates a little more with the authority given to him.

 

[Stephen]

View attachment 689479
Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

If hypothetically this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs is the product of Brendan Shanahan being a meddlesome boss, forcing Kyle Dubas into trading for ROR, Acciari, Schenn, McCabe, Lafferty when he didn't want to... I'm comfortable this franchise is in the right hands.

 

[JKG33]

Excited for Dubas to leave and Burke to return and the Leafs never make the playoffs again. Can't wait!

Hey, thus far the Leafs won the same amount of playoff series under Burke and Dubas

 

[Leafsfan74]

Maybe Shanahan wanted Dubas to make the roster tougher? It was reported that Shanahan wanted Matthees to be Captaon, while Dubas wanted Tavares. On hindsight I think Matthews was the better choice myself. Tavares is great, but I don't think he has the personality to lead, he would've been a better assistant captain. I also think Matthews would've raised to the occasion and would've taken the captaincy role seriously and pushed his teammates a little more with the authority given to him.

I thought Matthews should have been captain as well. The only benefit to not being captain is that he didn't have to be committed to the duties early and he knows if he re-signs he is next in line.

 

[JKG33]

If hypothetically this version of the Toronto Maple Leafs is the product of Brendan Shanahan being a meddlesome boss, forcing Kyle Dubas into trading for ROR, Acciari, Schenn, McCabe, Lafferty when he didn't want to... I'm comfortable this franchise is in the right hands.

My thoughts exactly. Those moves have been very unlike Dubas. ROR and Schenn specifically, and getting rid of softies like Engvall and Sandin. If there's a power struggle I'm all for it.

View attachment 689479
Concerning if true. Not sure Sevaralli is an insider though?

I wouldn't hate if Shanahan "demotes" himself to GM

 

[DarkKnight]

“Speed and skill had once been emphasized over size and grit. Six consecutive first-round playoff losses changed that.”​

Dave Poulin: Kyle Dubas shifted his Leafs game plan to try and beat the Lightning. And it just might work

Speed and skill had once been emphasized over size and grit. Six consecutive first-round playoff losses changed that.

www.thestar.com

Amen!