Tribute Kyle Dubas discussion

[axman15]

Given the recent run of GMs that we've had (Lou, Burke, Nonis, JFJ) I'm amazed at how much hate Dubas gets. Save for the backup goalie issue (which I fully expect to get resolved some time soon), he's pretty much done everything fans have asked for. The only thing he hasn't done is make the team more physical, but that's because it doesn't fit his vision for the team. Seeing as that vision brought us a playoff birth last year, I don't have a problem with how he has constructed the team.

In a year and a half, he has: signed Tavares, signed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all while staying under the cap (these deals will all look better as the cap goes up), brought in Muzzin and Barrie to shore up the back end (while the Barrie move didn't work out immediately, he's certainly playing better of late & nobody could have predicted the rough start he got off to), cleaned up Lou's mess (got rid of Marleau and Zaitsev), and fired Babcock (a move that not all GMs would have the guts to do midseason). That's a pretty successful year and a half, IMO.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Given the recent run of GMs that we've had (Lou, Burke, Nonis, JFJ) I'm amazed at how much hate Dubas gets. Save for the backup goalie issue (which I fully expect to get resolved some time soon), he's pretty much done everything fans have asked for. The only thing he hasn't done is make the team more physical, but that's because it doesn't fit his vision for the team. Seeing as that vision brought us a playoff birth last year, I don't have a problem with how he has constructed the team.

In a year and a half, he's: signed Tavares, signed Matthews, Marner, and Nylander all while staying under the cap (these deals will all look better as the cap goes up), brought in Muzzin and Barrie to shore up the back end (while the Barrie move didn't work out immediately, he's certainly playing better of late & nobody could have predicted the rough start he got off to), cleaned up Lou's mess (got rid of Marleau and Zaitsev), and fired Babcock (a move that not all GMs would have the guts to do midseason). That's a pretty successful year and a half, IMO.

It is odd the hate he gets, and some of it is because he;s young. The toughness thing, not easy to find a guy with jam that can also take a regular shift. The backup thing - they must be looking for a longer term option that just a hope-and-pray rental

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

It is odd the hate he gets, and some of it is because he;s young. The toughness thing, not easy to find a guy with jam that can also take a regular shift. The backup thing - they must be looking for a longer term option that just a hope-and-pray rental

Seems like for some it is because he is young and for others because he looks at the world a little differently while many folks ascribe to the "there's a formula" thinking. Make no bones, he ain't perfect but I like that he's thinking a little differently and am interested to see where it goes. Lord knows "same old" hasn't gotten us anywhere. As long as he keeps filling the pipeline as he has, I'm good with riding it out a while.

 

[zeke]

The only thing he hasn't done is make the team more physical, but that's because it doesn't fit his vision for the team.
.

This is a funny thing, though.

Here's how dubas' roster compares to the one he inherited from the previous' playoffs:

Matthews --> Matthews
Marner -----> Marner
Nylander ---> Nylander

Kadri ---------> Tavares
Hyman ------> Hyman
Marleau ----> Johnsson

Bozak --------> Kerfoot
JVR ------------> Mikheyev
Brown -------> Kapanen

Plekanec -----> Gauthier
Johnsson -----> Spezza
Kapanen -----> Engvall

Komorov ----> Timashov
Moore --------> Petan



Rielly --------> Rielly
Gardiner ---> Barrie

Hainsey -----> Muzzin
Zaitsev ------> Ceci

Polak ---------> Holl
Dermott -----> Dermott

Carrick ------> Marincin




Why do people think he's made the team smaller or softer? Looks like the opposite to me.

 

[Mess]

Sounds rather vague.
Anything tangible that can be measured?
Perhaps pick one of these.
Cup win? Multiple Playoff round wins? 1st round defeat? Foresight to lottery protect the 1st?

I think we all want to see team progress.

We had a GM and Coach that delivered a record setting regular season and then a 1st round loss to Boston.

Last year under Dubas we declined in points, but still faced the same Boston Bruins and lost in round #1 again.

Anything short of advancing to the 2nd round, will be viewed as similar at best, with another 1st round loss viewed as disappointing, no progress made in 2 years.

Oddly Dubas is not being graded against the GM he replaced Lou Lam who inherited a non playoff team that was last in goals against and lead them to a 4 game sweep of the 2 X recent Stanley Cup champ Pens and into the 2nd round in his 1st season. Now he has them 2nd in the NHL overall with a .727 points%.

Leaf fans should expect Dubas to at least outperform Lou Lam before we declare genius.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think we all want to see team progress.

We had a GM and Coach that delivered a record setting regular season and then a 1st round loss to Boston.

Last year under Dubas we declined in points, but still faced the same Boston Bruins and lost in round #1 again.

Anything short of advancing to the 2nd round, will be viewed as similar at best, with another 1st round loss viewed as disappointing, no progress made in 2 years.

Oddly Dubas is not being graded against the GM he replaced Lou Lam who inherited a non playoff team that was last in goals against and lead them to a 4 game sweep of the 2 X recent Stanley Cup champ Pens and into the 2nd round in his 1st season. Now he has them 2nd in the NHL overall with a .727 points%.

Leaf fans should expect Dubas to at least outperform Lou Lam before we declare genius.

It's not every day you have the only job opening and the top coach walking away from winning the Cup.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Last year under Dubas we declined in points

Last year we didn't win as many shootouts***

 

[Nithoniniel]

Dubas has made two moves with bad results so far. Sparks over McElhinney is one I understand. The Marner overpayment I don't, but I don't put nearly as much weight on overpayments for star players as many others do.

It's very odd to me that Dubas gets criticized for the team struggling this season. For one, the team has looked strong on paper but weak on the ice. That's exactly the job of the coach, to get the most out of the player material he's given. But the main thing is that we've talked for two years about how this season was going to be an obvious down year if we were able to keep our big names at all. Somehow Dubas manage to get it done while arguably strengthening the roster, and now he's criticized because he lost a first along the way.

As for Lou, I do appreciate him for a few things. But the Zaitsev and Marleau deals were way worse than any that Dubas has signed, just for one. People talk about him leaving Dubas a strong team to take over, but Lou's only major addition to that roster was Andersen, and he added two anchors along the way.

Dubas has added two of our top four d-men, been a huge proponent of a third, and added a superstar center and one of our best additions to our forwards in Mikheyev. He's had a tremendous, positive impact on this roster so far.

 

[BertCorbeau]

I think we all want to see team progress.

We had a GM and Coach that delivered a record setting regular season and then a 1st round loss to Boston.

Last year under Dubas we declined in points, but still faced the same Boston Bruins and lost in round #1 again.

Anything short of advancing to the 2nd round, will be viewed as similar at best, with another 1st round loss viewed as disappointing, no progress made in 2 years.

Oddly Dubas is not being graded against the GM he replaced Lou Lam who inherited a non playoff team that was last in goals against and lead them to a 4 game sweep of the 2 X recent Stanley Cup champ Pens and into the 2nd round in his 1st season. Now he has them 2nd in the NHL overall with a .727 points%.

Leaf fans should expect Dubas to at least outperform Lou Lam before we declare genius.

Worth pointing out that while the Leafs declined in overall point totals last season from the year prior, last season's team did had 4 more ROW's than the year prior (46 compared to 42). A big difference in point totals was shootout wins.

If the Leafs win their two shootouts last season, that would be 104 points which is close to the season before.

In essence, the notion that the team severely declined in his first year as GM has been a bit exaggerated IMO.

 

[Mess]

Worth pointing out that while the Leafs declined in overall point totals last season from the year prior, last season's team did had 4 more ROW's than the year prior (46 compared to 42). A big difference in point totals was shootout wins.

If the Leafs win their two shootouts last season, that would be 104 points which is close to the season before.

In essence, the notion that the team severely declined in his first year as GM has been a bit exaggerated IMO.

I think the biggest reason for the decline was down grading the backup goalie from McElhinney to Sparks, which we all know now was a big mistake in judgment, and the results confirmed.

We have another well documented backup goalie issue again this season with the position posting 0-7-1 numbers on the season.

 

[The Podium]

Dubas has made two moves with bad results so far. Sparks over McElhinney is one I understand. The Marner overpayment I don't, but I don't put nearly as much weight on overpayments for star players as many others do.

It's very odd to me that Dubas gets criticized for the team struggling this season. For one, the team has looked strong on paper but weak on the ice. That's exactly the job of the coach, to get the most out of the player material he's given. But the main thing is that we've talked for two years about how this season was going to be an obvious down year if we were able to keep our big names at all. Somehow Dubas manage to get it done while arguably strengthening the roster, and now he's criticized because he lost a first along the way.

As for Lou, I do appreciate him for a few things. But the Zaitsev and Marleau deals were way worse than any that Dubas has signed, just for one. People talk about him leaving Dubas a strong team to take over, but Lou's only major addition to that roster was Andersen, and he added two anchors along the way.

Dubas has added two of our top four d-men, been a huge proponent of a third, and added a superstar center and one of our best additions to our forwards in Mikheyev. He's had a tremendous, positive impact on this roster so far.

Lou always seems to become enamoured and give out/acquire bad contracts for mediocre players. Yes, the NYI have turned around with him at the helm, but the Anders Lee, Jordan Eberle, Josh Bailey and Leo Komarov deals are terrible... And those are the ones he is responsible for, add Ladd and Boychuk as bad deals on the roster and NYI is in big trouble soon which will likely a similar offseason to ours this year.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I think the biggest reason for the decline was down grading the backup goalie from McElhinney to Sparks, which we all know now was a big mistake in judgment, and the results confirmed.

We have another well documented backup goalie issue again this season with the position posting 0-7-1 numbers on the season.

3 more wins instead of 3 losses

just 3 w

22-11-4-48 points
Huge difference in every way

 

[Gabriel426]

All GMs have their own share of problems. Lou is no perfect and I hate it when people said Lou would have gotten better contracts than Dubas.... Esp since Lou had a yr to sign Willie but he either didn’t or couldn’t.

 

[genk]

Wow, so it’s almost like Dubas kind of knew what he was doing all along, but Babcuck was holding back the team. What a shocker.

11-4

 

[Martin Skoula]

This is a funny thing, though.

Here's how dubas' roster compares to the one he inherited from the previous' playoffs:

Matthews --> Matthews
Marner -----> Marner
Nylander ---> Nylander

Kadri ---------> Tavares
Hyman ------> Hyman
Marleau ----> Johnsson

Bozak --------> Kerfoot
JVR ------------> Mikheyev
Brown -------> Kapanen

Plekanec -----> Gauthier
Johnsson -----> Spezza
Kapanen -----> Engvall

Komorov ----> Timashov
Moore --------> Petan



Rielly --------> Rielly
Gardiner ---> Barrie

Hainsey -----> Muzzin
Zaitsev ------> Ceci

Polak ---------> Holl
Dermott -----> Dermott

Carrick ------> Marincin




Why do people think he's made the team smaller or softer? Looks like the opposite to me.

The Marlies teams he assembled and Keefe coached played much more physical games than Babcock's teams did.

In fact, Babcock has consistently been in the bottom-10 in hits per game his entire career. Guys that come here from other teams saw their hits drop drastically. I don't know where the idea that Dubas = soft hockey and Babcock = physical old school hockey came from, it could not be further from the truth.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Kyle Dubas not looking too bad now eh?

Patience

 

[Mats13]

Given a coach that doesn’t suck and his team suddenly doesn’t look so bad

 

[MyBudJT]

Dubas has made two moves with bad results so far. Sparks over McElhinney is one I understand. The Marner overpayment I don't, but I don't put nearly as much weight on overpayments for star players as many others do.

It's very odd to me that Dubas gets criticized for the team struggling this season. For one, the team has looked strong on paper but weak on the ice. That's exactly the job of the coach, to get the most out of the player material he's given. But the main thing is that we've talked for two years about how this season was going to be an obvious down year if we were able to keep our big names at all. Somehow Dubas manage to get it done while arguably strengthening the roster, and now he's criticized because he lost a first along the way.

As for Lou, I do appreciate him for a few things. But the Zaitsev and Marleau deals were way worse than any that Dubas has signed, just for one. People talk about him leaving Dubas a strong team to take over, but Lou's only major addition to that roster was Andersen, and he added two anchors along the way.

Dubas has added two of our top four d-men, been a huge proponent of a third, and added a superstar center and one of our best additions to our forwards in Mikheyev. He's had a tremendous, positive impact on this roster so far.

If Marner is overpaid, Matthews is probably overpaid even more...

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

can't believe how badly Dubas destroyed Marner's agent on his contract

 

[Menzinger]

can't believe how badly Dubas destroyed Marner's agent on his contract

Ferris looking like quite the fool right now

 

[TheProspector]

If Marner is overpaid, Matthews is probably overpaid even more...

I've got a good idea. Let's criticise the salaries of guys who are putting up 1.13 and 1.3 points per game. The guy that's tied for 2nd in goals really sucks. The other two players we have in the top 31 in even strength goal scoring are also garbage.

Our two top-25 even strength scoring D-men also blow chunks. And can you believe how much our league-leading 19 win goalie sucks?

This team is unredeemable.

Oh, wait, no, that's our fan base.

GO LEAFS GO!!!!! BELEAF!!!!

 

[MyBudJT]

I've got a good idea. Let's criticise the salaries of guys who are putting up 1.13 and 1.3 points per game. The guy that's tied for 2nd in goals really sucks. The other two players we have in the top 31 in even strength goal scoring are also garbage.

Our two top-25 even strength scoring D-men also blow chunks. And can you believe how much our league-leading 19 win goalie sucks?

This team is unredeemable.

Oh, wait, no, that's our fan base.

GO LEAFS GO!!!!! BELEAF!!!!

I wasn’t criticizing the contract... I was just pointing out that if you think Marner is overpaid, you should consider both to be overpaid.

I think both will ultimately be well worth their contracts...

 

[mapleleaf979]

Keefe has made Dubas look good. Especially Holl. Dubas was robbed on the Kadri trade. Kadri should have gotten them a stud d-man with term. Not a rental in Barrie. It would take stones but I wonder if he would consider trading Barrie to the West for a defensive d-man with term who is good defending the cycle.

 

[genk]

Keefe has made Dubas look good. Especially Holl. Dubas was robbed on the Kadri trade. Kadri should have gotten them a stud d-man with term. Not a rental in Barrie. It would take stones but I wonder if he would consider trading Barrie to the West for a defensive d-man with term who is good defending the cycle.

So you’re saying the coach that Dubas brought in to the franchise, then convinced him to stick around to coach the Marlies after having received offers to coach other NHL teams, and then hired him for the Leafs... is doing exactly what Dubas intended him to do?

 

[Peasy]

So you’re saying the coach that Dubas brought in to the franchise, then convinced him to stick around to coach the Marlies after having received offers to coach other NHL teams, and then hired him for the Leafs... is doing exactly what Dubas intended him to do?

The jumping through hoops that some people do here to try and talk bad about a player/person is ridiculous.

There is no way Kadri fetches you a "stud" d-man with term.