Kyle Dubas Discussion (continued) the 2021 edition

[Pookie]

robertson

nice find. My bad

 

[Pookie]

I never said our pool is better than anyone else's, so I don't know where you're getting that from. You tried to make a sarcastic remark about hunter/ Lou emptying the cupboards which is a fact as I and others already pointed out.

Where have all these guys gone in the last 5 years?

Korshkov
Rasanen
Middleton
Grundstrom
Gordeev
Walker
Deroschers
Bobylev
Chebykin
Bracco
Brooks
Timashov
Kara
McGregor
O'Connell
Greenway
Mattinen
Nielsen
Dzierkals
Lindgren

Again. Lou traded away picks for rental players and the picks we did have have been a total waste.

Our last 3 drafts under Dubas/Lilley have many players having noteworthy seasons and are comparing well to NHL players' post draft seasons.

I’m not playing the clairvoyant game with you.

if this is important, bookmark it and look me up in 5 years. If I’m not dead, stoned or living in a van by the river... I’ll reply.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I never said our pool is better than anyone else's, so I don't know where you're getting that from. You tried to make a sarcastic remark about hunter/ Lou emptying the cupboards which is a fact as I and others already pointed out.

Where have all these guys gone in the last 5 years?

Korshkov
Rasanen
Middleton
Grundstrom
Gordeev
Walker
Deroschers
Bobylev
Chebykin
Bracco
Brooks
Timashov
Kara
McGregor
O'Connell
Greenway
Mattinen
Nielsen
Dzierkals
Lindgren

Again. Lou traded away picks for rental players and the picks we did have have been a total waste.

Our last 3 drafts under Dubas/Lilley have many players having noteworthy seasons and are comparing well to NHL players' post draft seasons.

Hunter selecting Korshkov still makes me upset. Since Toronto had the 31st pick of the 2nd round and it being the first selection they had their choice of anyone who was still available and personally I was hoping he went with Alex DeBrincat. So it was a shock to select Korshkov that early when he could have went in the 5th round, along with the fact he was undrafted in 2014 and 2015. If Dubas was the GM at that time I think he goes with DeBrincat.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Hunter selecting Korshkov still makes me upset. Since Toronto had the 31st pick of the 2nd round and it being the first selection they had their choice of anyone who was still available and personally I was hoping he went with Alex DeBrincat. So it was a shock to select Korshkov that early when he could have went in the 5th round, along with the fact he was undrafted in 2014 and 2015. If Dubas was the GM at that time I think he goes with DeBrincat.

I wanted Hart. I like Korshkov and think he will still make it as a 4th liner but that was a terrible pick.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I wanted Hart. I like Korshkov and think he will still make it as a 4th liner but that was a terrible pick.

Hart would have also been a great selection or any of the other prospects expected to go in the 2nd round.

So I wonder why did some Leafs fans want Hunter to be the GM instead of Dubas, especially when you look at his draft record in Toronto.

 

[Antropovsky]

Hart would have also been a great selection or any of the other prospects expected to go in the 2nd round.

So I wonder why did some Leafs fans want Hunter to be the GM instead of Dubas, especially when you look at his draft record in Toronto.

Did anyone want Hunter?

 

[LeafsNation75]

Did anyone want Hunter?

Here was a poll originally posted on February 19, 2020 asking Dubas or Hunter with hindsight.

Hunter got 54 votes which was 18.1% of Leafs fans on here who thought he should have been named the GM instead of Dubas.

Hindsight - Dubas or Hunter? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Of course. Our pool is obviously better than anyone else’s pool..... because.... well.... it’s our pool.

It’s way too premature to give him a drafting trophy when only 1 player has played in the NHL.

At the same time, it's OK to acknowledge how they are trending versus their peers or to note that in re-draft scenarios, we tend to have some pretty good risers.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Here was a poll originally posted on February 19, 2020 asking Dubas or Hunter with hindsight.

Hunter got 54 votes which was 18.1% of Leafs fans on here who thought he should have been named the GM instead of Dubas.

Hindsight - Dubas or Hunter? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

A lot of those are trolls, others are old men who are bitter that Dubas is young and rightly or wrongly hasn't had success points wise thus far. I think a poll amongst impartial Leafs fans would be near unanimous, bc there is no way looking at Hunter's draft record you could pick him objectively.

 

[ACC1224]

Here was a poll originally posted on February 19, 2020 asking Dubas or Hunter with hindsight.

Hunter got 54 votes which was 18.1% of Leafs fans on here who thought he should have been named the GM instead of Dubas.

Hindsight - Dubas or Hunter? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League (mandatory.com)

That doesn’t mean people wanted Hunter just that they preferred him over Dubas. Many didn’t want either Dubas, Hunter or Lou Lam.

 

[rumman]

I’m not playing the clairvoyant game with you.

if this is important, bookmark it and look me up in 5 years. If I’m not dead, stoned or living in a van by the river... I’ll reply.

 

[rumman]

Did anyone want Hunter?

I'm guilty of this crime.

 

[Menzinger]

Weird question to answer considering none of Dubas' picks outside of the top 5 (except for Sandin) have played a single game in the NHL. So, you can't win that argument.

Unless you are invoking paranormal forces to predict the future... which... is.... uh.... dumb.

Do you think drafting in the top rounds is better than trading away draft picks?

Lou traded a 1st and 3 2nds while GM...

The idea that you can't track/evaluate prospect development is nonsensical, even if a guy hasn't made the NHL (for example, a former 2nd round pick like Ransanen immediatelyregressed in his D+1 season).

While its still early days for Dubas' selections Robertson and Sandin alone have undergone rapid progress in their development to the NHL, leapfrogging any of the non top 5 picks in that 2015-17 era. Conversely, its looking pretty grim for many of the Leafs selections taken in those earlier years despite the extra time they've had for development.

 

[Menzinger]

Timashov only played 39 games for Toronto before Detroit claimed him off waivers.

Grundstrom never played any games for the Maple Leafs when Dubas traded him to Los Angeles, so it doesn't matter that he's played 28 games for the Kings.

So I stand by my previous comment about Dermott being the only one who made the NHL full time after he was called up in January 2018.

I'll be surprised if Tima hits 200 career NHL games. Grundstrum will probably end up Hunters 2nd best non 1st round pick for the Leafs though I'm not sure he'll be a major impact player beyond a 3rd liner if he wins a roster spot with the Kings this season

 

[TopChedder]

A lot of those are trolls, others are old men who are bitter that Dubas is young and rightly or wrongly hasn't had success points wise thus far. I think a poll amongst impartial Leafs fans would be near unanimous, bc there is no way looking at Hunter's draft record you could pick him objectively.

Absolutely! It's not even remotely close.

 

[Pookie]

Lou traded a 1st and 3 2nds while GM...

The idea that you can't track/evaluate prospect development is nonsensical, even if a guy hasn't made the NHL (for example, a former 2nd round pick like Ransanen immediatelyregressed in his D+1 season).

While its still early days for Dubas' selections Robertson and Sandin alone have undergone rapid progress in their development to the NHL, leapfrogging any of the non top 5 picks in that 2015-17 era. Conversely, its looking pretty grim for many of the Leafs selections taken in those earlier years despite the extra time they've had for development.

I would expect a website like Hockey’s Future to want to discuss prospects.

That’s all well and good.

I would also expect posters at HF to understand that as tempting as it may be, a player actually has to accomplish something in order to declare their development a success.

If you want to compare their achievements in the minors, have at it. If you want to even muse at ceilings, have at it.

But using musings about the future to try to prove a present point is dumb. Debates involving clairvoyance serve no purpose other than to pad egos of the people offering the opinion.

GM x is better because these players will be better in the future.

???

why will they be better?

because I said so.

I’m not getting sucked into a debate that wouldn’t even be had in grade school.

again, look me up in 5 years.

 

[zeke]

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5. BOS +1400

 

[LeafsNation75]

Lou traded a 1st and 3 2nds while GM...

The idea that you can't track/evaluate prospect development is nonsensical, even if a guy hasn't made the NHL (for example, a former 2nd round pick like Ransanen immediatelyregressed in his D+1 season).

While its still early days for Dubas' selections Robertson and Sandin alone have undergone rapid progress in their development to the NHL, leapfrogging any of the non top 5 picks in that 2015-17 era. Conversely, its looking pretty grim for many of the Leafs selections taken in those earlier years despite the extra time they've had for development.

When Dubas traded for Jake Muzzin he gave up the Maple Leafs 2019 1st round pick, Carl Grundstrom, and Sean Durzi.

Last season when Lamoriello traded for Jean-Gabriel Pageau he gave up a 2020 1st round pick and a 2020 2nd round pick. Plus he immediately signed Pageau to a 6 year contract extension worth $5 million AAV along with a NTC in the first two years and a M-NTC in the final four years.

 

[LeafsNation75]

I'll be surprised if Tima hits 200 career NHL games. Grundstrum will probably end up Hunters 2nd best non 1st round pick for the Leafs though I'm not sure he'll be a major impact player beyond a 3rd liner if he wins a roster spot with the Kings this season

No matter what when Dubas made the Muzzin trade my first reaction hearing that news was this. He actually decided to make a good trade and didn't mind giving up a 1st round pick. During the 2017-18 season when Lou was the GM he didn't want to make a similar trade at the deadline for Ryan McDonagh and he got traded to Tampa Bay who were also in the Atlantic Division like Toronto.

 

[zeke]

The funniest thing about "Grit and Defense" Lamoriello is that the best Dman he added here was Ron Hainsey, and the only toughness he added here was Matt Martin who he waived halfway through his deal.

 

[hotpaws]

The funniest thing about "Grit and Defense" Lamoriello is that the best Dman he added here was Ron Hainsey, and the only toughness he added here was Matt Martin who he waived halfway through his deal.

your right he should have should have gone from a complete scorched earth rebuild to a fully built cup favorite in 2 years

 

[zeke]

your right he should have should have gone from a complete scorched earth rebuild to a fully built cup favorite in 2 years

You're right in nearly three years here adding Ron Hainsey as your best Dman addition and Martin as your only toughness add really means he did a great job making the leafs tougher and better defensively.

 

[BertCorbeau]

your right he should have should have gone from a complete scorched earth rebuild to a fully built cup favorite in 2 years

That .. has nothing to do with his point

 

[Menzinger]

I would expect a website like Hockey’s Future to want to discuss prospects.

That’s all well and good.

I would also expect posters at HF to understand that as tempting as it may be, a player actually has to accomplish something in order to declare their development a success.

If you want to compare their achievements in the minors, have at it. If you want to even muse at ceilings, have at it.

But using musings about the future to try to prove a present point is dumb. Debates involving clairvoyance serve no purpose other than to pad egos of the people offering the opinion.

GM x is better because these players will be better in the future.

???

why will they be better?

because I said so.

I’m not getting sucked into a debate that wouldn’t even be had in grade school.

again, look me up in 5 years.

Your earlier post implied Dubas inherited a strong prospect pool (taking issue with another posters suggestion that the cupboards were "bare").

If you'd like to focus on tangible things like like results, you could look at the amount of Leafs prospects (or lack there of) who have graduated from those draft classes outside of the top 5 selections into impact NHLers. So far we have a #5 D man, and that's it.

Edit:typo

 

[hotpaws]

You're right in nearly three years here adding Ron Hainsey as your best Dman addition and Martin as your only toughness add really means he did a great job making the leafs tougher and better defensively.

well he did take us from finishing dead last to the playoffs which i guess isn't anywhere near as impressive as Dubas taking over a club point record team to out of the playoffs in 2 years

anyway , Lou is gone and isn't coming back so i have no idea some believe shitting on him will make the Dube's light shine brighter

Dubas will sink or swim on the moves he makes and not on what past GM's have done