Kyle Dubas becomes quickest Leafs GM to 100 Wins

[hotpaws]

“It’s odd how people tear down Lou to prop up Dubas. Now excuse me as I go into every Dubas related thread and praise Lou to tear down Dubas.”




Love giving credit to a teams turnaround to a man who didn’t bring in 80% of the roster responsible for the rise.

how does believing Lou did an overall good job ''tear down Dubas'' ?

yea why should we give any credit to the GM who was in place when the team left the toilet ?

but maybe your right and that's why i keep reading how Gilliam is responsible for any of the success the team is having this year , lol

 

[Martin Skoula]

and what does this have to do with my post ?

Lou dumped Dion without any retention or long term cap dumps coming back , made Robidas and Lupes disappear easy peasy , signed Rielly/Kads/Andy to team friendly deals as well as being behind the wheel while the team went from dead last to a quality team yet he's portrayed by some as the worst GM in the history of the Leafs , lol .

the thing i don't understand is why some believe they have to shit on Lou because lub lub lub Dubie

He had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where the 3 best players on his team are making ELC money. They were objectively the best points-per-dollar trio in the league for 2 years, this should have been the easiest slam dunk of any GM's life. All you have to do is sign/trade for some defense and cheap vet forwards.

Instead we got Hainsey, Zaitsev, Marleau, and Martin. Lou won the lottery and immediately spent the winnings on rapidly depreciating unnecessary assets while you try to give him credit for winning the lottery. If we just didn't have a GM for two years, the team would be better off long-term.

 

[zeke]

I didn't realize M&M are as good as Sid and Geno or they hit the ground running in the NHL as fast as the 2 Pens did , learn something new every day.

and i'm still waiting for you to list the ''number of teams'' that won the cup that were in the same situation that Lou came into

Keep making excuses for Lou's epic mismanagement.

The best core of elite ELC talent in the league and his idea of big adds were Marleau, Hainsey, and Zaitsev.

What a disaster.

 

[hotpaws]

He had a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity where the 3 best players on his team are making ELC money. They were objectively the best points-per-dollar trio in the league for 2 years, this should have been the easiest slam dunk of any GM's life. All you have to do is sign/trade for some defense and cheap vet forwards.

Instead we got Hainsey, Zaitsev, Marleau, and Martin. Lou won the lottery and immediately spent the winnings on rapidly depreciating unnecessary assets while you try to give him credit for winning the lottery. If we just didn't have a GM for two years, the team would be better off long-term.

maybe you can link some posts where you were advocating the team trade picks and whatever prospects we had at that time when we just finished dead last to get these pieces that would land us the cup

and maybe you can tell me which players and which teams were just going hand us there quality players for shits and giggles

 

[hotpaws]

Keep making excuses for Lou's epic mismanagement.

The best core of elite ELC talent in the league and his idea of big adds were Marleau, Hainsey, and Zaitsev.

What a disaster.

hopefully you don't hurt your back shifting the goal posts

but i won't get side tracked and i'll keep waiting for the ''number of teams'' you said won the cup that were in our same situation like you kept insisting

 

[zeke]

and maybe you can tell me which players and which teams were just going hand us there quality players for shits and giggles

I know dubas could tell you.

 

[zeke]

hopefully you don't hurt your back shifting the goal posts

but i won't get side tracked and i'll keep waiting for the ''number of teams'' you said won the cup that were in our same situation like you kept insisting

We all know the teams I am talking about

You are busily trying to make up over-specific definitions and descriptions on to those teams in order to make it seem like Lou wasn't handed a similar situation, when he was. That's you making up goalposts.

 

[Martin Skoula]

maybe you can link some posts where you were advocating the team trade picks and whatever prospects we had at that time when we just finished dead last to get these pieces that would land us the cup

and maybe you can tell me which players and which teams were just going hand us there quality players for shits and giggles

We got Muzzin for the same assets that Lou spent on Boyle, Plekanec, and needing to dump Marleau's 3rd year that they knew he wouldn't play. We got Brodie for 500k more than Zaitsev got. If we were committed to rebuilding, he should have moved JVR, Bozak, Gardiner, Komarov etc. If we were committed to competing, he should have made moves bigger than Plekanec. Instead he wasted assets and ELC years on treading water.

Is your argument seriously "trading players requires assets so it's actually a good thing that the only impact player Lou acquired in two years is Andersen"? How do you explain Dubas rebuilding a full defense in less time for less cap and less assets than Lou's moves for aging 4th liners?

 

[hotpaws]

We all know the teams I am talking about

You are busily trying to make up over-specific definitions and descriptions on to those teams in order to make it seem like Lou wasn't handed a similar situation, when he was. That's you making up goalposts.

i don't know what teams so that's why i need you to name them

 

[hotpaws]

We got Muzzin for the same assets that Lou spent on Boyle, Plekanec, and needing to dump Marleau's 3rd year that they knew he wouldn't play. We got Brodie for 500k more than Zaitsev got.

Is your argument seriously "trading players requires assets so it's actually a good thing that the only impact player Lou acquired in two years is Andersen"? How do you explain Dubas rebuilding a full defense in less time for less cap and less assets than Lou's moves for aging 4th liners?

Lou dumped much worse contracts -Lupul-Robisas-Phaneuf than Marleau's and it didn't cost us any assets unlike Dubie who got bent over and let Marleau dictate his departure which cost us a high 1st .

and Dubie didn't rebuild anything , everybody knows it's the GM of the Marlies that really runs the organization . lol , so lets all praise Gilliam

and i'm still waiting for the links and the players you believe we should have got

 

[Martin Skoula]

Lou dumped much worse contracts -Lupul-Robisas-Phaneuf than Marleau's and it didn't cost us any assets unlike Dubie who got bent over and let Marleau dictate his departure which cost us a high 1st . lol what a weak bitch

and Dubie didn't rebuild anything , everybody knows it's the GM of the Marlies that really runs the organization . lol , so lets all praise Gilliam

and i'm still waiting for the links and the players you believe we should have got

Lupul and Robidas got hurt, man Lou is really a genius for that. Same with taking on more cash than Phaneuf was owed to dump him, almost like his core players were on ELCs and he had a ton of short term cap space to use. Not having them on 35+ contracts with NMCs that are literally unburiable unless the player consents to move was also nice.

I just gave you players we actually got with less cap space and less cheap assets available after Lou spent them on nothing.

No need to lash out, friend. We can revisit this conversation when you get your emotions under control.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Lou and Kyle inherited the very same core, though Lou got it for free and Kyle had to pay for it.

Lou completely wasted that core, while Kyle has locked it in and built a juggernaut around it.

What a pleasant difference.

Dubas's team under Babcock was mediocre at best. Dubas gets a "pass" on those years because of "Babcock".

Pray tell... why doesn't Lou get that free pass as well? He also inherited Babcock, and was in no position to replace him in the first couple of years on such a long contract.

That same coach had just told the entire fanbase to "prepare for pain" a mere couple months before Lou was hired, as they were still in full rebuild mode. And Lou was dressing SEVEN rookies in key positions that first year. Still, one mere seasons later, Lou put a team together that got the teams franchise record in points.

 

[hotpaws]

Lupul and Robidas got hurt, man Lou is really a genius for that. Same with taking on more cash than Phaneuf was owed to dump him, almost like his core players were on ELCs and he had a ton of short term cap space to use. Not having them on 35+ contracts with NMCs that are literally unburiable unless the player consents to move was also nice.

I just gave you players we actually got with less cap space and less cheap assets available after Lou spent them on nothing.

No need to lash out, friend. We can revisit this conversation when you get your emotions under control.

you said it was a slam dunk we should have won the cup right after drafting Mathews yet can't give me any names of the players you believe we could have acquired or any links to your previous posts stating this opinion . geez , i wonder why , lol

and now your reduced to taking back handed swipes at me to try to deflect away from you being unable to defend your previous statement . lol

 

[Martin Skoula]

Dubas's team under Babcock was mediocre at best. Dubas gets a "pass" on those years because of "Babcock".

Pray tell... why doesn't Lou get that free pass as well? He also inherited Babcock, and was in no position to replace him in the first couple of years on such a long contract.

That same coach had just told the entire fanbase to "prepare for pain" a mere couple months before Lou was hired, as they were still in full rebuild mode. And Lou was dressing SEVEN rookies in key positions that first year. Still, one mere seasons later, Lou put a team together that got the teams franchise record in points.

So are they in rebuild mode or are they competing? If they're in rebuild mode, why are they letting vets walk for free and spending 2nd round picks on 4th liners? If they're competing, why are they spending 2nd round picks on 4th liners when your RHD is Hainsey-Zaitsev-Polak?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So are they in rebuild mode or are they competing? If they're in rebuild mode, why are they letting vets walk for free and spending 2nd round picks on 4th liners? If they're competing, why are they spending 2nd round picks on 4th liners when your RHD is Hainsey-Zaitsev-Polak?

Impossible to tell. As I've been told, it's pretty much impossible to succeed the way Babcock used his star players, divided pp time, etc.

It's simply fascinating that all of those Babcock excuses don't apply to Lou.

Imagine Dubas was stuck with Babcock his entire tenure. The teams shortcomings wouldn't be blamed on Dubas.

And I'd argue the Kadri trade was worse than any of Lou's mistakes.

Regardless, as Stephen wrote above, Dubas put a great team together this year. I (as well as many of the Dubas critics) was very supportive of his offseason moves. Can't we just focus on that?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

I think it's fairly obvious that Babcock actually had at least a modicum of respect for Lou, and that's why none of the issues that arose between Dubas and Babs was present between Lou and Babs. You think Babs would've made a stink in the media about Muzzin's handedness if Lou was the one who brought in Muzzin? He would've sat Spezza in the home opener if Lou brought him in?

These hypotheticals can't be proven. What I can say is that there was a very clear difference in Babs' actions and demeanor going from having Lou as his GM to Dubas. Like many on here, having a young man running the team rubbed him the wrong way, and a lot of his moves afterwards were to make a point. Sitting Holl for an entire season, poo-pooing potential trades, forcing the team to play a system that was clearly not working.

 

[NK94]

I think it's fairly obvious that Babcock actually had at least a modicum of respect for Lou, and that's why none of the issues that arose between Dubas and Babs was present between Lou and Babs. You think Babs would've made a stink in the media about Muzzin's handedness if Lou was the one who brought in Muzzin? He would've sat Spezza in the home opener if Lou brought him in?

These hypotheticals can't be proven. What I can say is that there was a very clear difference in Babs' actions and demeanor going from having Lou as his GM to Dubas. Like many on here, having a young man running the team rubbed him the wrong way, and a lot of his moves afterwards were to make a point. Sitting Holl for an entire season, poo-pooing potential trades, forcing the team to play a system that was clearly not working.

Playing Andersen in 66 games during 2017-18 when McElhinney had a .934 SV% that season as a backup... only for Freddy to be burnt out by round 1... unreal coaching. Truly.

 

[NK94]

The Lou following is unreal
But it's the usual suspects time and time again

There is no safer bet right now than Lou walking away from the Islanders two months before Barzal's bridge deal ends and leaving the new guy to deal with his long-term extension.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Old man veteran good
New young guy bad

 

[saffronleaf]

But probably the slowest to go from 100 to 101.

 

[ACC1224]

But probably the slowest to go from 100 to 101.

Love Dubas but that’s exactly what I was thinking

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

What other gm inherits a 105 point team with a marner, a matthews and a nylander level talent all rfa?

The GM that signed them all when everyone said he couldn’t. Then he dumped all of Lou’s bad contracts. Then everyone said he overpaid them. Then everyone said he couldn’t upgrade the defense. Then he kept finding great value while continuously improving the defense.

 

[Dekes For Days]

let Marleau dictate his departure

It's called a NMC, and it wasn't Dubas who gave it.

 

[Carltons Cup]

You just know Dubas reads these boards.

He's gotta have a burner account here to troll us....

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think it's fairly obvious that Babcock actually had at least a modicum of respect for Lou, and that's why none of the issues that arose between Dubas and Babs was present between Lou and Babs. You think Babs would've made a stink in the media about Muzzin's handedness if Lou was the one who brought in Muzzin? He would've sat Spezza in the home opener if Lou brought him in?

These hypotheticals can't be proven. What I can say is that there was a very clear difference in Babs' actions and demeanor going from having Lou as his GM to Dubas. Like many on here, having a young man running the team rubbed him the wrong way, and a lot of his moves afterwards were to make a point. Sitting Holl for an entire season, poo-pooing potential trades, forcing the team to play a system that was clearly not working.

This is outrageous revisionist history.

Babcock’s system, stretch passing, weird usage of super star players, etc.... it was there under Lou as well. And was vocally criticized constantly here. It wasn’t as much of a big deal though because of how successful the team was.

my take is that Lou gave Babs the players he wanted that would fit his system. Dubas wanted a system that wasn’t compatible with Babcock. But consider this... that early into babcocks contract Lou had no choice but to work with him.