Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[Zynbanejad]

Nil. Reports are that he is willing to play in the AHL for another club. He’s done with the Rangers and I suspect the feeling is mutual.

So he won’t report to the A for the Rangers, but he will for other teams? Sounds like lip service to make his side look better

 

[smoneil]

How do you know what teams were offering? How does Drury even know what teams would have offered if he didn't spend the time to actually shop him around? Which is exactly what it seemed like happened.

I have heard this time and time again, that "no one was giving up a 1st for Buch" and not once have I heard a good explanation or seen any evidence to suggest that would be true.

I didn't say they are "worthless" I said they decrease with about every 5 picks and then after the 1st round the success rates plummet. But the success rates in the 1st round aren't very good to begin with. That's why it's been called "systemically low". Again, this has been written about and researched extensively by many people. This is just a fact. You can't cherry pick outliers to determine this. Of course players outside the 1st round make it, some become superstars. But that is completely besides the point.

Do you know the statistical odds of winning the lottery, like the state lottery? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning. Seriously . I think it's actually substantially higher to get struck by lightning.

And similarly, not to that extent obviously, draft picks outside of the 1st round ARE like lottery tickets then. But that is simply not worth very much relative to the player in question. At least, anywhere in the first round you at least stand a much better statistical chance of succeeding with a pick. Which matters and matters a lot when you are giving up your best RW who just broke out that very season.

Look I know we can't go back in time. But the rationalizing and excusing is the issue here. Buch got traded, that's that. But it doesn't make it better pretending a 2nd round pick is a good return. Even with Blais.

How do I know that teams weren't offering a first round pick? Because we didn't trade Buch for a first round pick. I can believe that Drury was overly conservative and didn't want to risk holding on to Buch to get more later because of the potential for injury. But to believe that there were 1st rounders galore being tossed like singles at a strip club, only for the GM to say "hmm, no, I'd much rather a 2nd, because 2 is MORE than 1!" He's an NHL GM, not a Pakled.

As for the draft odds, again, I know the odds are high (though I don't think it is quite as low a percentage as you have been saying). That 15% number I think comes from Doug Maclean's piece, where he found that, over a ten year span, only 15% of 2nd rounders became impact players. He found that 25% of 2nd rounders become solid NHL players (he was also a lousy GM, so there is that).

Looking at just the NY Rangers, even in our worst stretches of drafting, we do better than 25% in the second round. From 2005-2014, the team had 9 picks in the second round. They hit on three of them (Michael Sauer, Anisimov, and Derek Stepan) as NHL regulars (2nd line/2nd pair). Two others (Marc-Andre Cliche and Boo-Synergy Nieves) made it to the NHL for shorter stretches (151 and 76 games, respectively). Christian Thomas got a couple cups of coffee (25 NHL games) and only three of them (Antoine LaFleur, Ethan Werek, and Brandon Halverson) busted completely (though Halverson did get one game, and we were able to move Werek for the best three years of Oscar Lindberg's NHL career). So in one of the worst 10 year stretches of drafting in recent team history, they got impact players with 33% of their picks, got three fill-ins/plugs with another 33% of their picks, and busted on the final 33% (though they were able to spin one of those busts into a role player). Two of our most recent 2nd rounders, Robertson and Cuylle, are among our top prospects. TL/DR--the odds of landing a useful player on an ELC with a 2nd round pick are high enough that it's always a good idea to pick up a spare pick whenever possible to increase those odds even further.

Finally, I'm not rationalizing or excusing anything. I didn't like the trade. I'm not thrilled about the current situation with Kravtsov. What I am doing is getting past that disappointment and trying to get excited about what we actually have. Same reason why I'm excited about Robertson rather than being emo about losing Zuccarello. You want to live in the past and give yourself an ulcer over something you can't change? Be my guest, but I don't understand what anyone gets out of that approach.

 

[NYSPORTS]

The same as in the other 194 countries in the world.

it’s still not Capitalism

 

[smoneil]

Your deluding yourself. All through camp Kravy played with Chytil. 3rd line. Blais and Hunt were playing on the 4th line. This got nothing to do with top six. And has everything to do with putting the best 23 players on the roster.

And you are right,.. it is one game. But we are now severely comprised on the right side with Buch, Blackwell, and Kravtsov gone. And with Bonehead Gallant, I don't have high hopes for a good start. You better hope Kakko remains healthy.

I said by the end of camp. Not pre-season. By the time pre-season even started, they seemingly saw something that made them think that Krav wasn't ready for that other top 6 RW spot. Blais was playing on that Chytil line pretty much from the moment that Krav got hurt, and he owned it. Dished out tons of hits. Scored a couple of goals. Played some on both PP and PK. He did more on that line than Krav did, which is why he won the starting job.

I do agree that we are compromised on the right side. Barring a huge step forward by Gauthier or a jump in play by Pajuniemi, we have a bit of a problem there. I don't think Kreider at RW is a long-term solution. At this point, I'd push Chytil up to the 2nd line C spot with Strome as the 2RW. Put Kakko with Zib and Laf, and call up Barron to play 3rd line C with Blais and Goodrow. I could also see them moving Blais up to that Panarin/Strome line, pushing Kakko up to Zib's line, and putting Kreider with Chytil and Goodrow.

 

[RGY]

Gallant needs to go. And I predict he will not last.

Bookmarking this for fun.

 

[smoneil]

I'm not gonna defend Kravtsov actions. They were childish and immature. And maybe in the long run, it would have happened anyway. He might have ended up pouting when he got benched.

But I also know this was handled very badly by management and will effect this team moving forward. We have no depth on right wing now and it will effect our play. Kravy should have started alongside Chytil. Period. The new head coach has outright lied to his players and the media over this and of picking a Captain. These are not good signs from your new head coach. And I'm sure Shesty is just tickled pink he was skipped over for the season opener. Just what your star goalie wants from your new head coach. A vote of confidence.

Gallant needs to go. And I predict he will not last.

Management did nothing wrong in this case other than assume too much re: Kravtsov's ability to play top line (that was another concern I had w/the Buch trade--that we were counting too much on a pair of players who, to that point, had never played at a top six level). We DO have depth at RW. We have a lot of it, in fact (Kakko, Goodrow, Gauthier, Reeves, Blais can play either side, Pajuniemi on the farm, etc). We are lacking in top 6 RW. We had two "maybes" when they broke camp. And one of the maybes couldn't rise to the occasion.

Here's a question for you: Gallant came in preaching accountability, effort, and team play. He came in practically screaming about his philosophy that players need to fit the role they are in. If he gave that 3rd line spot to Kravtsov--despite Krav's reported bad attitude and effort level, and despite the fact that at least one player (Blais) beat him and another player (Gauthier) at least tied him for the "role" of 3rd line RW (which has different expectations from the role of a top 6 RW), wouldn't that have made Gallant JUST as much of an "outright liar"?

 

[smoneil]

What are the chances he realizes he’s acting like a child and reconciles with the org?

They were quite good...the first time he did this. Since this is take two of his Veruca Salt impression, I'm gonna say the odds ain't great.

 

[NYR94]

 

[Kocur Dill]

Miller made the all-rookie team last season. Trouba is part of the leadership group, has more than 500 NHL games under his belt, and--when he got hurt last year--the entire defense (including Fox) fell apart down the stretch. Kravtsov has 20 NHL games to his name, putting up only 4 points. That's why Kravtsov wasn't afforded the same opportunity. He was competing for a job. Trouba and (to a lesser extent) Miller were penciled in for jobs. Krav was pissed that he wasn't given something that other guys have earned. That's the crux of his entire problem.

And again, Kravtsov wasn't competing against Hajek or Trouba or Miller. He was competing against NOBODY to open camp (for that first line RW spot), and still somehow lost that job. Then he was competing against Blais and Gauthier for the ONE open 3rd line wing spot, and clearly lost to Blais, while being neck and neck with Gaut. If you were running the team, who--between Gauthier and Krav--do you want sitting in the press box for games at a time and who do you want on the top line in Hartford, playing in all situations and doing the work to become the top line winger in a month or two?

We are going to lose Kravtsov not because of Hajek. Not because of Drury. Not because of Trouba, Miller, or the Zamboni driver. We are going to lose Kravtsov because the team treated him just like every other player and did what needed to be done to give him the best chance to develop into a top 6 winger, and Kravtsov showed his whole ass with this entitled prima donna routine (again). With his attitude, he's on a fast track to become the next Zherdev or Brendl. And since the attitude is now clearly a recurring, consistent problem, I say good riddance.

 

[NYblades]

Top 6 return? Now they sound like the Sabres and the Eichel mess.

 

[Hockey Gamer]

Top 6 return? Now they sound like the Sabres and the Eichel mess.

the potential of one. Anyway, difference between the Rangers and Sabres is that the Rangers will settle for less eventually if it comes to that. The Sabres OTOH probably won't.

 

[Synergy27]

Such a damn shame with this kid. They could really use him. Nothing is ever easy being a fan of this team.

 

[Daves a mess]

Laf had to poo

 

[RangersFan1994]

So he will play in the AHL but not with the Rangers. Rangers should find out if prospects are spoiled brats before they draft them. Chytil never complained about AHL time. Isn’t the interview process at the draft is to find out if the prospects are willing to play in the AHL and not bolt home when things don’t go their way. What if Chytil wanted out, what if Barron and Jones request a trade because they didn’t make the Rangers? At least North American prospects rarely do this. Just draft players willing to be in the AHL and not bolt or whine about it.

 

[ohbaby]

Management did nothing wrong.....

We DO have depth at RW. We have a lot of it, in fact (Kakko, Goodrow, Gauthier, Reeves, Blais can play either side, Pajuniemi on the farm, etc).

Wrong on both counts. Kakko aside, you wanna name a few more 4th liners that could fill the right wing slot?

You think management did nothing wrong? Even those who blame Kravtsov realize Rangers brass handled this badly. Gallant did not pick the best 23 players available. No one disputes this. Hajek doesn't belong. Neither does Tinordi. Hunt and Gauthier are borderline fringe players at best. That's 4 spots on this roster that are very questionable at best. Kravy came off his injury to score a great one- timer goal in the last preseason game and doesn't make the roster over those wannabe's? You gotta be kidding me?

Prior to the final cuts, there was no question Kravtsov had a spot on this roster. There was no doubt about it. Now after the fact, you guys try to make the case it was warranted? You guys are funny.

I don't see the Rangers getting off to a strong start under Gallant. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right, Gallant will be on a short leash.

 

[Baby Punisher]

If this man waited a week hed be back with the big team
Unreal

That's my feeling too. I find it hard to believe this wasn't communicated to him. Even if it was 2 weeks, or a month, who cares work your tail off with a chip on your shoulder to show management what a mistake they made sending you down, to begin with.

 

[haohmaru]

Wrong on both counts. Kakko aside, you wanna name a few more 4th liners that could fill the right wing slot?

You think management did nothing wrong? Even those who blame Kravtsov realize Rangers brass handled this badly. Gallant did not pick the best 23 players available. No one disputes this. Hajek doesn't belong. Neither does Tinordi. Hunt and Gauthier are borderline fringe players at best. That's 4 spots on this roster that are very questionable at best. Kravy came off his injury to score a great one- timer goal in the last preseason game and doesn't make the roster over those wannabe's? You gotta be kidding me?

Prior to the final cuts, there was no question Kravtsov had a spot on this roster. There was no doubt about it. Now after the fact, you guys try to make the case it was warranted? You guys are funny.

I don't see the Rangers getting off a strong start under Gallant. I hope I'm wrong. But if I'm right Gallant will be on a short leash.

All of this is lacking something: context.

Kravtsov is probably one of the "best 23 players available", however, teams have roles and players that need to fill them. Kravtsov's problem is that he needed to be one of the top 6 best wingers in camp and he simply wasn't. He's not a 4th line player, so there are six spots in front of him and five of those were already taken (Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, and Goodrow).

He shouldn't have pulled this bullshit again.

It's pretty clear that Hajek "doesn't belong" but the Rangers don't want to lose him for nothing. Can't blame them for that. And the fact that Hunt and Gauthier beat out Kravtsov should really tell you everything you need to know about his preseason.

Unfortunately, none of us know what went on behind the scenes, in the locker room, and during practice(s). There's a reason he was sent to the AHL. If Chytil was man enough to take his medicine and prove that he belonged here, then so should Kravtsov.

There's no great way to handle demoting a player who feels like he belongs. Maybe the Rangers should've drafted a center or two instead of 6000 wingers.

 

[EdJovanovski]

I know you’re reading this Vitali, come back pls

 

[ohbaby]

All of this is lacking something: context.

Kravtsov is probably one of the "best 23 players available", however, teams have roles and players that need to fill them. Kravtsov's problem is that he needed to be one of the top 6 best wingers in camp and he simply wasn't. He's not a 4th line player, so there are six spots in front of him and five of those were already taken (Panarin, Kreider, Lafreniere, Kakko, and Goodrow)....
And the fact that Hunt and Gauthier beat out Kravtsov should really tell you everything you need to know about his preseason.

What is up with you guys and this ridiculous argument? I must of heard it 20 times already. You can't make up crap to fit your narrative.

Again, Kravtsov was never in line for a top six position and you guys know this. It has always been between Kreider, Laff and Kakko for the two top rightwing spots. Kravy was always slotted to play alongside Chytil on the 3rd line.

So what is up with all this top six or bust nonsense? And why is it, if it's not top six,... it's 4th line duty. Do you forget NHL teams roll 4 lines? Talk about context.

Hunt and Gauthier beating out Kravtsov for a spot,... only tells me,,... that besides the new head coach not knowing how to pick a starting goalie to open the season, he can't pick a starting roster either. Pathetic.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Years of waiting and we’ll never see the kid.

 

[Chaels Arms]

Strange that he's willing to play in the A for other teams but not the Rangers. Maybe getting sent down wasn't the main issue he had.

 

[smoneil]

Wrong on both counts. Kakko aside, you wanna name a few more 4th liners that could fill the right wing slot?

Blais played in the middle six for Cup winning St. Louis. Goodrow was a staple on the best third line in hockey for the best team in the league for the last two years (years where his team won back to back Cups). Do tell me more about how those guys are "fourth liners." Frankly, the ONLY fourth liner I listed was Reeves (Gaut will either be a middle-six guy or not in the league in a couple years, and Pajuniemi doesn't play a fourth line game either). We have depth at RW, but are lacking top six options. Which is exactly what I said before you got your knickers in a twist over it.

You think management did nothing wrong? Even those who blame Kravtsov realize Rangers brass handled this badly.

Let me be a bit more clear--the Rangers did nothing wrong TO Kravtsov. They should have moved him earlier if they had indications that his delicate princess routine was going to be a regular aspect of his character, but they didn't do anything at all to Kravtsov except expecting him to earn his spot like every other player in the league in his position.

Gallant did not pick the best 23 players available. No one disputes this. Hajek doesn't belong. Neither does Tinordi. Hunt and Gauthier are borderline fringe players at best. That's 4 spots on this roster that are very questionable at best. Kravy came off his injury to score a great one- timer goal in the last preseason game and doesn't make the roster over those wannabe's? You gotta be kidding me?

I think that Zac Jones, Braden Schneider, and Tyler Wall are all better players than Rooney, Hunt, and Reeves. Should we make that swap as well? Sure, that will leave us with three goalies, 10 defensemen, and not enough forwards to ice four lines, but what the hell, we want the "best" 23 players regardless of bullshit considerations like "roles" or anything like that, right? This has been addressed. Ad nauseum. You are whining about players who WERE. NOT. COMPETING. WITH. KRAVTSOV. Get it through your damn head. They weren't his competition. Gallant said from day 1 that he didn't want skill prospects on the 4th line and I don't think he even needed to say that he doesn't want high end forward prospects on the goddamn blue line. The only player you mention here who WAS in competition with Kravtsov is Gauthier, who helped create goals all pre-season by drawing penalties. By the end of pre-season, Gaut and Krav were neck and neck, but Blais out-performed both of them. So I'll ask you again, who would you rather be in the "lives in the press box for weeks at a time" 13th forward roster spot, Gaut or Krav? Krav got sent down because they value him more highly long-term than Gauthier. Anyone can see that, but Krav and his fanboys are intent on looking at it as an insult.

Prior to the final cuts, there was no question Kravtsov had a spot on this roster. There was no doubt about it. Now after the fact, you guys try to make the case it was warranted? You guys are funny.

There were a ton of questions. He had a nice goal in the LAST preseason game. Good for him. Blais had two nice goals, an assist, PK'ed, chipped in on the power play, and threw 8-ish hits per game. Could Krav have done more if he hadn't gotten injured? Maybe. But he DID get injured and didn't show as much in his time on the ice as Blais. And this is all coming from someone who really didn't want to like Blais coming into the season. And the kicker is that, on some level, I think you already know that the cut was the right move based on camp. I notice you left Blais out of your list of guys you think should have been cut before Kravtsov. Odd that you left off the only one who won a regular position and just so happened to out-score Krav while also bringing several other elements, no?

The only way to argue that Kravtsov should have been handed a position in the starting lineup (ie: not as a 13th forward, spare defenseman, backup goalie or whatever other nonsense you've been tossing about) is to admit that you think he should have been given something over another player who, either in pre-season or through their career to date, had earned it over him. And that brings up another "funny" thing. I notice that you only quoted almost all of my post. You seem to have misplaced part of it. I found it for you. Let's see if you can give an honest answer:

"Here's a question for you: Gallant came in preaching accountability, effort, and team play. He came in practically screaming about his philosophy that players need to fit the role they are in. If he gave that 3rd line spot to Kravtsov--despite Krav's reported bad attitude and effort level, and despite the fact that at least one player (Blais) beat him and another player (Gauthier) at least tied him for the "role" of 3rd line RW (which has different expectations from the role of a top 6 RW), wouldn't that have made Gallant JUST as much of an "outright liar"?

Apologies for any offense re: salty language. In a bad mood. I subscribed to ESPN+ solely to watch Rangers games. I figured I would have no problems, as I live in Arkansas, which doesn't have any pro teams. Apparently, I'm in the Dallas blackout zone, so I had to miss the home opener and pay for the privilege.

 

[n8]

Does Brendan Lemieux count as another botched prospect? He totally requested a trade. He'd look dandy in Hunt's place right about now. Lemieux and Reaves sheriffs of New York. I like Hunt's energy but man, I don't see him putting up more than 10 points. Let him bake me a crow pie.

 

[smoneil]

Does Brendan Lemieux count as another botched prospect? He totally requested a trade. He'd look dandy in Hunt's place right about now. Lemieux and Reaves sheriffs of New York. I like Hunt's energy but man, I don't see him putting up more than 10 points. Let him bake me a crow pie.

I think Lemieux is better than Hunt, but I don't think he's $2.3 million dollars better than Hunt. And with Cuylle, Berard, Othmann and a couple of other kids in the pipeline, we have no reason to spend 3+ million per on a 3rd/4th line tweener.

 

[NYR Viper]

I do not think Lemieux is better than Hunt and the stats prove it. If desired I can try to show that tomorrow but Hunt has some offensive skill and his skating is better than Lemieux who fell ALL THE TIME. Hunt is an effective 4th line winger and he makes peanuts. His skating also allows him to be a much more effective and consistent physical presence. The only thing Lemieux does better is fight.