Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[Rangers ftw]

If this man waited a week hed be back with the big team
Unreal

That is why I’m not that upset he’s leaving. Major character flaw unveiled.

 

[brians1128]

Which teams in history do you think executed proper rebuilds?

Whats your definition of rebuild? How do you define the period of window opening of the rebuild? What do you consider the point of it being successful? If a team fails to win a Stanley Cup is the rebuild considered a failure? How much time are you allowed to successfully navigate said task?

 

[ohbaby]

Now that I could all see being completely true.

Whether Hajek is an excuse or an actual reason, it's not a good reason lol.

They brought in Gallant to compete now, before the team and players are actually ready to compete. And it seems to me they are doing everything as if they think they can actually contend this year, which will only hurt the team more in the long run. This team is not ready to actually compete. And it won't be until at least next season. This is clearly still a developmental year, or at least SHOULD be.

Totally agree. Krav didn't have the best preseason, but there's a few guys on the roster who were way worse or just on par. Those 4 you mentioned AND Miller. And I don't think Laf was exactly better than Kravtsov in preseason either. But they'd never ever send Laf to the AHL. It's hypocrisy at its finest. There is a clear double standard here in regard to how the team is handling Krav and Jones and how they are treating their other players and I am not exactly sure why. If this were about meritocracy, Jones would have taken Miller's spot and Miller would be at Hartford right now. And absolutely, Kravtsov would be on the roster rather than any of Hunt, Tinordi, Hajek or Gauthier. And frankly, Barron might be there too.

And thank you, Gallant seems like an absolute liar and I think has been lying. Which is why I think there is a good chance someone, maybe Gallant, maybe Drury, mislead/deceived/lied to Kravtsov at some point in regard to him having a roster spot and then went back on that.

I think we all understand, Miller and Trouba had terrible camps. But there is no way they would be sent down. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt they will ready for the season opener. Which is why it is shocking Vitali wasn't afforded the same opportunity. He was much improved last year.

Management thought they could pull a fast one, by keeping Hajek from the waiver wire a bit longer, when we all know, no team is gonna bite and just wait for him to be put on waivers. And in doing so, picked the wrong guy to mess with. We lost Kravy for nothing, because sooner or later Hajek will get claimed off waivers.

Just a huge bonehead move.

I should add,.. Kravy should have known this and accepted his assignment, even if they lied through their teeth on the reasons why he was being demoted. But I also know there wouldn't be 70 pages on this crap if management did the right thing.

 

[brakeyawself]

Completely up front--I don't follow any of the prospect leagues or anything like that, so my view on the drafts upcoming is based mainly on what I've read from people who do follow those leagues. Everything I've read has said that 2022 doesn't have a generational elite kid at the top, but has "top 5" caliber guys into the middle of the first round, and first round depth through the first two. The "top heavy" bit that you mention is exactly what I've heard about the 2023 draft (that there are two or three guys in that class who each would have gone first overall in many of the previous drafts). Any draft is a bit of a crap shoot, but having multiple picks in rounds 1 and 2 can insulate a team from a mistake or two (for example, screwing up the Lias pick isn't QUITE as big a deal because we also got Chytil that year. Same thing for Kravtsov because of Miller and Lundkvist).

And finally, as much as I loved Buch, St. Louis didn't get a "70 point 2 way player" for Blais and a pick. They didn't get one for 5.8 million. Because that's not what Buch is. I know all about pace and point per game and what not, but Buch has always been streaky and the bottom line is that he has never scored even fifty points in a season yet. You aren't even just mourning the loss of a player, you are upset about losing a player 20+ points better than the one we had. Until he actually puts up 70, you just can't casually call him a 70 point player.

Hmm, well I have missed all those articles then. Because from everything I have read and everything I have seen from a lower level prospective, and I think most scouts agree, Wright is about as generational a prospect as you can get. Which is why he is the clear number 1 pick and I don't think anyone else comes close. That's not just me, that's the actual scouting.

But the draft should have another 10-15 players or so that have a good chance of turning into superstars, which is where the draft is deep. But beyond that, it MAY be a little better than other drafts, but even then, you are still talking about such awful odds of a 2nd rounder working out. Like under 15% I think. I forget the exact stats, but it's something ridiculously low like that. In a good class or poor class.

What do you mean that's not what Buch is? That's what he was for the Rangers in his final year. He was on pace for 70 points during the shortened season. But 56 games is still an ample enough sample size to understand it was legit. Like it wasn't just a few streaky weeks. And Buch was our best defensive forward. He has progressed leaps and bounds defensively. I don't think you can call him anything else other than a two way player, and one who was on pace, over significant enough sample size, for 70 points over an 82 game season.

I think you are completely discounting the fact that the 2021 season WAS his breakout year. I can't guarantee he would reproduce. But the way he was playing all season left little doubt that he had matured a great deal and likely would be that good from then on.

 

[smoneil]

2nd and 3rd rounders are lottery tickets ? So basically like rolling a dice. Yea, why would you give up a proven commodity for a tiny chance to land an even near equivalent player. The majority of 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks will be busts. Even 1st rounders yea. Man, just look at the statistics. Volumes have been written about this. The NHL draft has a systemically low success rate. Draft picks outside of the top half of the first round really are worth substantially less than the 1st half of the 1st. And beyond the 1st, you might as well roll a dice. 2nd and 3rd round picks are nothing like lottery picks. Lottery picks are like lottery picks because they are the highest and safest picks.

Trimmed out the over-reactions re: the Buch trade. It's been three months. You don't have to like it. I didn't like it. But the time to get over it is long past due.

Re: the quoted bit, I half wondered as I typed that whether it would be a confusing metaphor. I meant lottery tickets in the "Powerball/scratch off" sense. Not in the "picks in the draft lottery" sense. Regardless, nobody was offering a first round pick at all, to say nothing of one in the top half of the draft. Also, the "picks outside the first half of round one are worthless" argument is a bit of an odd position to take in a thread about a busting 9th overall pick (in a draft where two guys drafted in the bottom of the first round are on the team), where prominent side debates have involved a busted 7th overall pick (in a draft where Chytil at 21st overall and Barron in the 6th round are still on the team) and the semi-recent trade of Buchnevich (a 3rd round pick in a draft where 3 of our 5 picks--ALL in or after round 3--are current NHL regulars).

 

[brakeyawself]

I think we all understand, Miller and Trouba had terrible camps. But there is no way they would be sent down. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt they will ready for the season opener. Which is why it is shocking Vitali wasn't afforded the same opportunity. He was much improved last year.

Management thought they could pull a fast one, by keeping Hajek from the waiver wire a bit longer, when we all know, no team is gonna bite and just wait for him to be put on waivers. And in doing so, picked the wrong guy to mess with. We lost Kravy for nothing, because sooner or later Hajek will get claimed off waivers.

Just a huge bonehead move.

Well, I understand Trouba being guaranteed. But why Miller? It's not like he was great last year either and he still has holes in his game and still plays soft much of the time. I don't see why Miller couldn't be sent down. For that matter, I think Miller, if he continues to play as he has, should be the first of our young defensive prospects to go in a trade. Would much rather have Jones, Robertson, Schneider and Lundkvst than Miller as he's played much of last season and in preseason.

And Hunt and Gauthier were NOT better than Kravtsov in preseason. Yet they both have roster spots. And certainly, they don't have the potential like Kravtsov.

And I do agree with your last paragraph. The more this goes on the less I blame Kravtsov as I think the organization did try to pull a fast one. And I honestly don't believe Hajek would have or will get claimed off waivers. The guy couldn't make a Czech league roster just last year. He's not good enough for the Czech league..... why would an NHL team grab him ?

 

[Thirty One]

Whats your definition of rebuild? What do you consider the point of it being successful? If a team fails to win a Stanley Cup is the rebuild considered a failure? How much time are you allowed to successfully navigate said task?

I was kinda looking for your definition.

My point is that people sometimes have a specific idea of what a rebuild looks like and how the Rangers' fell short of it. But the parameters they set are ones very few rebuilds have actually met. It's how I approach rebuilds in fantasy hockey and Eastside Hockey Manager, but rarely seen where owners are trying to sell tickets and merchandise.

 

[brakeyawself]

Trimmed out the over-reactions re: the Buch trade. It's been three months. You don't have to like it. I didn't like it. But the time to get over it is long past due.

Re: the quoted bit, I half wondered as I typed that whether it would be a confusing metaphor. I meant lottery tickets in the "Powerball/scratch off" sense. Not in the "picks in the draft lottery" sense. Regardless, nobody was offering a first round pick at all, to say nothing of one in the top half of the draft. Also, the "picks outside the first half of round one are worthless" argument is a bit of an odd position to take in a thread about a busting 9th overall pick (in a draft where two guys drafted in the bottom of the first round are on the team), where prominent side debates have involved a busted 7th overall pick (in a draft where Chytil at 21st overall and Barron in the 6th round are still on the team) and the semi-recent trade of Buchnevich (a 3rd round pick in a draft where 3 of our 5 picks--ALL in or after round 3--are current NHL regulars).

How do you know what teams were offering? How does Drury even know what teams would have offered if he didn't spend the time to actually shop him around? Which is exactly what it seemed like happened.

I have heard this time and time again, that "no one was giving up a 1st for Buch" and not once have I heard a good explanation or seen any evidence to suggest that would be true.

I didn't say they are "worthless" I said they decrease with about every 5 picks and then after the 1st round the success rates plummet. But the success rates in the 1st round aren't very good to begin with. That's why it's been called "systemically low". Again, this has been written about and researched extensively by many people. This is just a fact. You can't cherry pick outliers to determine this. Of course players outside the 1st round make it, some become superstars. But that is completely besides the point.

Do you know the statistical odds of winning the lottery, like the state lottery? You have a better chance of getting struck by lightning. Seriously . I think it's actually substantially higher to get struck by lightning.

And similarly, not to that extent obviously, draft picks outside of the 1st round ARE like lottery tickets then. But that is simply not worth very much relative to the player in question. At least, anywhere in the first round you at least stand a much better statistical chance of succeeding with a pick. Which matters and matters a lot when you are giving up your best RW who just broke out that very season.

Look I know we can't go back in time. But the rationalizing and excusing is the issue here. Buch got traded, that's that. But it doesn't make it better pretending a 2nd round pick is a good return. Even with Blais.

 

[smoneil]

As more time passes on this fiasco by management, the more we hear this has nothing to do with the waiver wire and Hajek. Repeating this clear falsehood, over and over doesn't make it anymore truthful. It is a fact Hajek was not exempt. It is a fact, Hajek at best, is our 10th defensemen on the depth chart. It is a fact he made the club and Vitali did not. It is a fact Gallant used Vitali's injury and missed time as an excuse in losing his spot. It is a fact Ryan Reaves suited up off his horrendous looking injury without any rehab or conditioning. It is a fact Gallant lied about a captain and that Hunt and Gauthier won a spot over Vitali. Any Rangers fan with a grade school education knows those two couldn't shine Vitali' shoes much less outplay him for a spot. Those two are fringe, borderline NHL players. Vitali in returning from Russia last year, suited up for every one of the last 20 games of the season, averaging better than 12 minutes a game. And mind you it was only a 56 game season. So it wasn't like garbage time.

The sooner we get rid of Gallant the better. Lying to us and his players before the season starts is no way to start coaching a new team. Starting your back up goalie for the season opener is icing on the cake. I'm sure Shesty is just thrilled from the Coach's vote of confidence.

Him saying,... "But our job is to put the 23 guys that we think are available right now to play the best hockey" that includes Tinordi, Hajek, Hunt, and Gauthier over Vitali Kravtsov is just laughable.

He needs to go. And you guys thought Quinn made some bonehead moves.

It's been one game. This post is the mother of all over-reactions. Kravtsov wasn't competing with Hunt at all. Hunt is a 4th liner. Hunt won a 4th line spot. Kravtsov was supposed to be competing for a top 6 spot. He did not win one. By the end of camp, he was competing for a 3rd line spot. Blais, by a fairly wide margin, outplayed him for that spot role. Gauthier and Krav were neck and neck for the role (Gaut was phenomenal at drawing penalties and creating plays in pre-season). But the "role" that Gaut won was the back-up, bench-riding 3rd line sub. Keeping Kravtsov to sit the bench helps neither him nor the team. Gallant didn't lie to anybody. Kravtsov needed to do some work. They sent him down to do it, undoubtedly with the hope that in a few weeks, he'd be back and on the top line, pushing Kreider to 3LW and Blais to the 4th line. But Kravtsov is apparently a princess who is above such things like "earning his spot."

TL/DR:

Drop the "It's Hajek's fault" bit--VK wasn't competing for backup D.
Drop the "It's Hunt's/Gauthier's fault" bit--VK wasn't competing for 4th line or 13th forward.
Drop the "It's Blais's fault" bit--Blais beat VK out fairly for a 3rd line (ie: where talent is just ONE aspect of the role) spot.

VK had an opportunity. Bad luck (the injury) and meh play prevented him from seizing that opportunity. Rather than do the work to BE a top 6 winger, he opted to pitch a tantrum about not being proclaimed one. Talented kid, but not one I'd want on my team after multiple such tantrums.

 

[ohbaby]

And I honestly don't believe Hajek would have or will get claimed off waivers. The guy couldn't make a Czech league roster just last year. He's not good enough for the Czech league..... why would an NHL team grab him ?

That makes it even worse. To think Hajek makes it through waivers, is even worse that we sacrificed Kravtsov.

I thought Miller save Trouba's butt all season long last year.

 

[brians1128]

I was kinda looking for your definition.

My point is that people sometimes have a specific idea of what a rebuild looks like and how the Rangers' fell short of it. But the parameters they set are ones very few rebuilds have actually met. It's how I approach rebuilds in fantasy hockey and Eastside Hockey Manager, but rarely seen where owners are trying to sell tickets and merchandise.

I guess we share the same points I just didn't convey them as clearly as I would of liked in my post. And my answer to the question is close to 0 because it there isn't a set definition.

 

[brakeyawself]

That makes it even worse. To think Hajek makes it through waivers, is even worse that we sacrificed Kratsov.

I thought Miller save Trouba's butt all season long last year.

Well that is the whole point and why people are upset about Hajek. Because it is SO unlikely he would actually get claimed. I mean we are talking about a kid here who shouldn't be in the AHL let alone NHL. Who they've supposedly shopped with no interest anywhere. And who's looked absolutely terrible for over 2 years now. The Czech league failure is just the cherry.

And Miller, had some good moments, but he a lot of bad moments too. He doesn't really utilize his size to the fullest and we have just seen many of those mistakes carry over to preseason. And I mean, he was so awful in preseason. We will see if he can correct. But honestly, nothing I have seen from him yet makes me that excited. And I still think, just speculation obviously, that he will be the first D prospect to go. Or at least, I think he should be the first out of our top 5 D prospects, not counting Tuomanen and everyone below him. Obviously Miller is worth more than that tier. But I guess we will see.

 

[brians1128]

I was kinda looking for your definition.

My point is that people sometimes have a specific idea of what a rebuild looks like and how the Rangers' fell short of it. But the parameters they set are ones very few rebuilds have actually met. It's how I approach rebuilds in fantasy hockey and Eastside Hockey Manager, but rarely seen where owners are trying to sell tickets and merchandise.

To add to it, Pitts core was built in 2004-2006 they won in 2009. Probably one of the fastest to success in recent memory. Tampa won in 2004 and there so called rebuild of the current team started in 2007 (Stamkos) they didn't win till 2020. Id also add Colorado's rebuild of the current team who is considered the favorite this year and can be argued as being one of the best put together team began in 2011 with drafting there captain in 2011. let alone the Duchene trade that has helped form this current team was even before that I believe.

 

[ohbaby]

It's been one game. This post is the mother of all over-reactions. Kravtsov wasn't competing with Hunt at all. Hunt is a 4th liner. Hunt won a 4th line spot. Kravtsov was supposed to be competing for a top 6 spot. He did not win one. By the end of camp, he was competing for a 3rd line spot. Blais, by a fairly wide margin, outplayed him for that spot role.

Your deluding yourself. All through camp Kravy played with Chytil. 3rd line. Blais and Hunt were playing on the 4th line. This got nothing to do with top six. And has everything to do with putting the best 23 players on the roster.

And you are right,.. it is one game. But we are now severely comprised on the right side with Buch, Blackwell, and Kravtsov gone. And with Bonehead Gallant, I don't have high hopes for a good start. You better hope Kakko remains healthy.

 

[RGY]

Your deluding yourself. All through camp Kravy played with Chytil. 3rd line. Blais and Hunt were playing on the 4th line. This got nothing to do with top six. And has everything to do with putting the best 23 players on the roster.

And you are right,.. it is one game. But we are now severely comprised on the right side with Buch, Blackwell, and Kravtsov gone. And with Bonehead Gallant, I don't have high hopes for a good start. You better hope Kakko remains healthy.

Severely compromised? Bonehead Gallant?

Someone isn’t overreacting at all. Not one bit

 

[ohbaby]

Severely compromised? Bonehead Gallant?

Someone isn’t overreacting at all. Not one bit

I suppose you wanted Georgie for the season opener? I guess Boneheads think alike.

 

[smoneil]

I think we all understand, Miller and Trouba had terrible camps. But there is no way they would be sent down. You have to give them the benefit of the doubt they will ready for the season opener. Which is why it is shocking Vitali wasn't afforded the same opportunity. He was much improved last year.

Management thought they could pull a fast one, by keeping Hajek from the waiver wire a bit longer, when we all know, no team is gonna bite and just wait for him to be put on waivers. And in doing so, picked the wrong guy to mess with. We lost Kravy for nothing, because sooner or later Hajek will get claimed off waivers.

Miller made the all-rookie team last season. Trouba is part of the leadership group, has more than 500 NHL games under his belt, and--when he got hurt last year--the entire defense (including Fox) fell apart down the stretch. Kravtsov has 20 NHL games to his name, putting up only 4 points. That's why Kravtsov wasn't afforded the same opportunity. He was competing for a job. Trouba and (to a lesser extent) Miller were penciled in for jobs. Krav was pissed that he wasn't given something that other guys have earned. That's the crux of his entire problem.

And again, Kravtsov wasn't competing against Hajek or Trouba or Miller. He was competing against NOBODY to open camp (for that first line RW spot), and still somehow lost that job. Then he was competing against Blais and Gauthier for the ONE open 3rd line wing spot, and clearly lost to Blais, while being neck and neck with Gaut. If you were running the team, who--between Gauthier and Krav--do you want sitting in the press box for games at a time and who do you want on the top line in Hartford, playing in all situations and doing the work to become the top line winger in a month or two?

We are going to lose Kravtsov not because of Hajek. Not because of Drury. Not because of Trouba, Miller, or the Zamboni driver. We are going to lose Kravtsov because the team treated him just like every other player and did what needed to be done to give him the best chance to develop into a top 6 winger, and Kravtsov showed his whole ass with this entitled prima donna routine (again). With his attitude, he's on a fast track to become the next Zherdev or Brendl. And since the attitude is now clearly a recurring, consistent problem, I say good riddance.

 

[n8]

That is why I’m not that upset he’s leaving. Major character flaw unveiled.

would have been nice if it wasn't public and he got back, potted 10 points in 5 games, and THEN got traded. But then we wouldn't know his issues publicly and would be all mad he got traded (unless the return was that good) so maybe you are right that this is better.

 

[RGY]

I suppose you wanted Georgie for the season opener? I guess Boneheads think alike.

I didn’t want Georgiev. But there are 81 games left. We have another game tonight. Game #2. Lundkvist is in for Tinordi. I expect Gallant to make a lot more smart decisions than bad ones.

 

[Crease]

I almost miss the days when the Rangers didn’t have prospects worth caring about.

 

[Richard Banger]

Like ADA I look forward to when this headache is traded.

 

[Zats Muccarello]

What are the chances he realizes he’s acting like a child and reconciles with the org?

 

[ohbaby]

....And again, Kravtsov wasn't competing against Hajek or Trouba or Miller. He was competing against NOBODY to open camp (for that first line RW spot), and still somehow lost that job. Then he was competing against Blais and Gauthier for the ONE open 3rd line wing spot, and clearly lost to Blais, while being neck and neck with Gaut. If you were running the team, who--between Gauthier and Krav--do you want sitting in the press box for games at a time and who do you want on the top line in Hartford, playing in all situations and doing the work to become the top line winger in a month or two?

We are going to lose Kravtsov not because of Hajek. Not because of Drury. Not because of Trouba, Miller, or the Zamboni driver. We are going to lose Kravtsov because the team treated him just like every other player and did what needed to be done to give him the best chance to develop into a top 6 winger, and Kravtsov showed his whole ass with this entitled prima donna routine (again). With his attitude, he's on a fast track to become the next Zherdev or Brendl. And since the attitude is now clearly a recurring, consistent problem, I say good riddance.

I'm not gonna defend Kravtsov actions. They were childish and immature. And maybe in the long run, it would have happened anyway. He might have ended up pouting when he got benched.

But I also know this was handled very badly by management and will effect this team moving forward. We have no depth on right wing now and it will effect our play. Kravy should have started alongside Chytil. Period. The new head coach has outright lied to his players and the media over this and of picking a Captain. These are not good signs from your new head coach. And I'm sure Shesty is just tickled pink he was skipped over for the season opener. Just what your star goalie wants from your new head coach. A vote of confidence.

Gallant needs to go. And I predict he will not last.

 

[Crease]

What are the chances he realizes he’s acting like a child and reconciles with the org?

Nil. Reports are that he is willing to play in the AHL for another club. He’s done with the Rangers and I suspect the feeling is mutual.

 

[Thirty One]

What are the chances he realizes he’s acting like a child and reconciles with the org?

I don't know about realizes he's acting like a child, but I put the chances he plays for the organization again at 13.75%.