Confirmed with Link: Kravtsov requests trade

[nyr2k2]

Are you implying that he was sent down to the VHL because KHL was on break and they wanted to get him reps and it wasn't because he hadn't fallen out of favor? I'm just trying to make sure of his demotion reason

What's always conveniently left out of the "he was sent down because of the break" discussion is that his last four games prior to that break, he played 12 minutes, 13 minutes, 9 minutes, and then one shift. Then he was sent down--the break provided a convenient time for a guy that was struggling to get some additional reps--and came home after that. It wasn't going well for him back in Chelyabinsk, every knew it, and he came back. I don't know why it's controversial to call it a demotion--it was likely due to a KHL break but it also pretty clearly had to do in part with his KHL performance.

 

[JCProdigy]

I’m sure you’ve watched many of his KHL games to arrive at this fact-based conclusion

With your shaky relationship the truth, you maybe shouldn’t be calling other posters on “fact-based conclusions”.

See everybody, when Ed implied, several times, that Kravtsov was sent down to the VHL solely because of the KHL break and not because he needed to improve. He’s kinda full of shit, and relying on your ignorance.

In the last game before he was sent down, Kravstov played ONE shift. In the game before that he had 9:04 TOI.



That tweet is from Dec 8th. If he was sent down solely for the break then why did he get sent down before Traktor actually was on break? They played a game on the 9th.

Game summary: Traktor - Sibir : Kontinental Hockey League (KHL)

He also was scratched/sent down before Traktor’s game on the 7th.

Game summary: Metallurg Mg - Traktor : Kontinental Hockey League (KHL)

Even though factually the coach did say that they needed more out of him, it’s normal for young players to be sent down, and they were going to eventually call him back up, Kravstov decided to return to the Rangers before Traktor’s next game out of the break. If everything was going great then why did he leave? His coach seemed surprised.



For me, I like Kravstov, the player. Liked his 20-21 season in the KHL. Thought his NHL stint was promising at the end of last year where he showed flashes. I didn’t expect anything more from him because he 1) was young and first time in NHL 2) playing on the 4th line with low skill players 3) couldn’t be expected to drive said line. I would have liked to see him with a line driver, especially in place of Blackwell. I wouldn’t have had a problem if he made the team at season’s start but understood because of injury and therefore lack of reps, why the he was sent to AHL. I think his trade request is rational. I don’t think his other actions over the past couple years have been.

For the KHL break again?
Yawn

EdJovanaski once again diminishing any credibility he has left on this board with his antics. Yawn indeed.

 

[haohmaru]

Lias made the Rangers team out of camp in the past also. Still has never exhibited NHL talent in an NHL game, ever. Mediocre at best skater and no other strong skills, unlike Kravtsov.

Let me guess - Lias' poor experience with the Rangers was due to usage by the coach (he should have been given top 6 minutes). Ha ha.

He's played in 91 NHL games - what's the threshold to establish that he has "NHL talent" exactly?

And, hey, I'm not a big Lias guy after what went down here and my "hope" before all that stuff happened was that he'd reach what I thought his ceiling was - a decent 3C.

 

[EdJovanovski]

With your shaky relationship the truth, you maybe shouldn’t be calling other posters on “fact-based conclusions”.

See everybody, when Ed implied, several times, that Kravtsov was sent down to the VHL solely because of the KHL break and not because he needed to improve. He’s kinda full of shit, and relying on your ignorance.

In the last game before he was sent down, Kravstov played ONE shift. In the game before that he had 9:04 TOI.



That tweet is from Dec 8th. If he was sent down solely for the break then why did he get sent down before Traktor actually was on break? They played a game on the 9th.

Game summary: Traktor - Sibir : Kontinental Hockey League (KHL)

He also was scratched/sent down before Traktor’s game on the 7th.

Game summary: Metallurg Mg - Traktor : Kontinental Hockey League (KHL)

Even though factually the coach did say that they needed more out of him, it’s normal for young players to be sent down, and they were going to eventually call him back up, Kravstov decided to return to the Rangers before Traktor’s next game out of the break. If everything was going great then why did he leave? His coach seemed surprised.



For me, I like Kravstov, the player. Liked his 20-21 season in the KHL. Thought his NHL stint was promising at the end of last year where he showed flashes. I didn’t expect anything more from him because he 1) was young and first time in NHL 2) playing on the 4th line with low skill players 3) couldn’t be expected to drive said line. I would have liked to see him with a line driver, especially in place of Blackwell. I wouldn’t have had a problem if he made the team at season’s start but understood because of injury and therefore lack of reps, why the he was sent to AHL. I think his trade request is rational. I don’t think his other actions over the past couple years have been.



EdJovanaski once again diminishing any credibility he has left on this board with his antics. Yawn indeed.

I did not mean it was solely for the break, for instance if we were to have a break here in the NHL for the Olympics. Do you think we would send Kreider down to Hartford to get some reps in during that? Or would it be more likely we sent down someone like a Lundkvist, even if we had full intent of bringing Lundkvist back after?

I am dispelling this narrative that he can't even crack a KHL roster and would get sent down if he were to go over there and play; which many people are suggesting. The guy led the entire team in goals last season. He has won KHL individual awards, broke all-time records, and was a KHL All-Star. People are acting like he was a scrub.

 

[nyr2k2]

I did not mean it was solely for the break, for instance if we were to have a break here in the NHL for the Olympics. Do you think we would send Kreider down to Hartford to get some reps in during that? Or would it be more likely we sent down someone like a Lundkvist, even if we had full intent of bringing Lundkvist back after?

I am dispelling this narrative that he can't even crack a KHL roster and would get sent down if he were to go over there and play; which many people are suggesting. The guy led the entire team in goals last season. He has won KHL individual awards, broke all-time records, and was a KHL All-Star. People are acting like he was a scrub.

This sounds like some serious backtracking, guy.

 

[EdJovanovski]

This sounds like some serious backtracking, guy.

I'm saying there was context to it, he wouldn't have got sent down under normal circumstances. Same way people use excuses for Laf & Kakko, even saying this is Laf's REAL D+1 because of Covid.

 

[OrlandK]

He's played in 91 NHL games - what's the threshold to establish that he has "NHL talent" exactly?

And, hey, I'm not a big Lias guy after what went down here and my "hope" before all that stuff happened was that he'd reach what I thought his ceiling was - a decent 3C.

The Threshold for being an NHL level talent is actually being a decent effective hockey player in the NHL. Guys drafted in the top ten often get chance after chance. He got a lifeline with the Kings because his father works with the organization. Not only are LA's stats telling but so is the eye test, even more so. Not sure how he seems heading towards being a decent #3 - with what skill set?

 

[Synergy27]

I understand why people feel compelled to take sides in this matter. I really do.

But what’s with the revisionist history on VK as a prospect? Sure, his numbers weren’t good. None of our forward prospect numbers were good.

But we were all pretty universally doing excited backflips because of how good he “looked” when he got into the lineup late last year. That was a real thing that happened. Why are some of us pretending it didn’t?

The bottom line is that it sucks that that guy isn’t here and playing. That guy, continuing to develop, helps this team. It sucks that he’s not here. He doesn’t all of a sudden suck because he’s not here.

 

[JohnC]

He's played in 91 NHL games - what's the threshold to establish that he has "NHL talent" exactly?

And, hey, I'm not a big Lias guy after what went down here and my "hope" before all that stuff happened was that he'd reach what I thought his ceiling was - a decent 3C.

To what extent should we even be excited that Kravstov was only slightly better than Lias Andersson, a guy who was universally disliked as the 7th overall pick by this fan base?

 

[JCProdigy]

I'm saying there was context to it, he wouldn't have got sent down under normal circumstances. Same way people use excuses for Laf & Kakko, even saying this is Laf's REAL D+1 because of Covid.

Seriously Ed? Context without adding context?? By doing that you are just dragging yourself down to the level of those you are scoffing at.

He was sent down because he was struggling on his return to the KHL. Whether that was because he wasn't in the best place mentally, his conditioning was off, or just going through a rough patch that is normal (especially for young players), the coach didn't want him sitting on the bench or scratched (Traktor's last three games). They sent him down a game before the break, let him re-group and then reassess.

The above doesn't mean he's a horrible player/prospect. It doesn't mean he's a scrub. It just means he was struggling a bit which frankly is understandable to the situation. I understand the urge to come to Kravtsov's defense because you like the player but you are doing you and your "cause" a disservice If you can't admit that to yourself.

I mean you can have the opposing views that Kravtsov is a good/great prospect that could develop into a top 6 winger and still admit when he's struggled, still admit when he's made some unprofessional/immature/questionable decisions. They aren't mutually exclusive to any prospect/player/person.

 

[cwede]

To what extent should we even be excited that Kravstov was only slightly better than Lias Andersson, a guy who was universally disliked as the 7th overall pick by this fan base?

Universally? I must be from another dimension.

Lias has decent skills and hockey sense and intensity. He will have a good NHL career. So will Krav.
Sucks that some organization dysfunction fed youthful emotions to delay their NHL arc and undermine their tenures w NYR

Lias's bolting from Pack was a lame move, but so were
- Quinn's baseless roster choices and committing to Howden who never improved much
- Quinn's refusal to accept that developing Lias WAS part of his job
- Bobrov misleading the top 10 picks regarding their expectations of path to NHL

Krav will be beast of a wing.
Personally I can't believe his reps didn't/couldn't talk him out of this counter-productive over-reaction.
Baron, McKegg and Gauthier have already gotten shifts that Krav might've earned for himself with a few good practices and games w Pack

 

[JohnC]

Universally? I must be from another dimension.

Universally is hyperbole, but you’re out to lunch if you think a majority of this board didn’t hate that pick.

I say that as someone who liked it.

 

[haohmaru]

To what extent should we even be excited that Kravstov was only slightly better than Lias Andersson, a guy who was universally disliked as the 7th overall pick by this fan base?

Kravtsov has flashes, though, so I believe there's more upside if he can just get it right with what's going on in between his ears. Really disappointed that he chose this route and I feel he could've done it differently/amicably and still ended up with the same result that would've benefitted both parties. It's not helping the Rangers that he's in Russia twiddling his thumbs and it's not helping Kravtsov either. It hurts value for the Rangers and professional sports is a fleeting thing - it's not in Kravtsov's best interest to protest by sitting out.

 

[haohmaru]

The Threshold for being an NHL level talent is actually being a decent effective hockey player in the NHL. Guys drafted in the top ten often get chance after chance. He got a lifeline with the Kings because his father works with the organization. Not only are LA's stats telling but so is the eye test, even more so. Not sure how he seems heading towards being a decent #3 - with what skill set?

This is just gobbledy gook BS. Okay, he doesn't pass your eye test for what you think NHL level talent is, whatever that is. The average NHL career is 4.5 years long and Lias is almost exactly at that point. It's pretty safe to call him an NHL player. If you want to call him a disappointing 7OA, that's fine.

Furthermore, I never said he's "heading towards being a decent #3". I said I think his CEILING is a decent #3, should he ever achieve it. I've been saying that since he was drafted.

 

[cwede]

Universally is hyperbole, but you’re out to lunch if you think a majority of this board didn’t hate that pick. I say that as someone who liked it.

I am not out of touch
Just feel no need to encourage, or surrender to, the waves of Group-think already swirling here.
The modern sports multiverse is fueled by self-satisfying 'I could do better' and 'what were they thinking'

People may come to HFBoards for information, but many stay for the self-serving second-guessing
I come here for the information, and am constantly on the verge of quitting HFB due to the endless whining and mud-slinging.

With precious few exceptions (... Brashear ...) I support, to the end, all the guys NYR bring on board ...

And boy if folks think Lias pick (or Jessiman/McIlrath) deserves disgust,
good thing this stuff wasn't around for Jim Malone or Michael Stewart or Jeff Brown

 

[OrlandK]

[QUOTE="haohmaru, post: 180920947, member: 90065"]This is just gobbledy gook BS. Okay, he doesn't pass your eye test for what you think NHL level talent is, whatever that is. The average NHL career is 4.5 years long and Lias is almost exactly at that point. It's pretty safe to call him an NHL player. If you want to call him a disappointing 7OA, that's fine.

Furthermore, I never said he's "heading towards being a decent #3". I said I think his CEILING is a decent #3, should he ever achieve it. I've been saying that since he was drafted.[/QUOTE]
That hurts my feelings.

BTW - guessing you were a lot higher on Lias than you are acknowledging.

 

[Mandar]

Seriously Ed? Context without adding context?? By doing that you are just dragging yourself down to the level of those you are scoffing at.

He was sent down because he was struggling on his return to the KHL. Whether that was because he wasn't in the best place mentally, his conditioning was off, or just going through a rough patch that is normal (especially for young players), the coach didn't want him sitting on the bench or scratched (Traktor's last three games). They sent him down a game before the break, let him re-group and then reassess.

The above doesn't mean he's a horrible player/prospect. It doesn't mean he's a scrub. It just means he was struggling a bit which frankly is understandable to the situation. I understand the urge to come to Kravtsov's defense because you like the player but you are doing you and your "cause" a disservice If you can't admit that to yourself.

I mean you can have the opposing views that Kravtsov is a good/great prospect that could develop into a top 6 winger and still admit when he's struggled, still admit when he's made some unprofessional/immature/questionable decisions. They aren't mutually exclusive to any prospect/player/person.

Mic drop….

 

[egelband]

Put the work in to earn it?
Keep in mind that Kravtsov is probably well aware that both Lafreniere and Kakko were basically handed roster spots on a silver platter before they were NHL ready. Seriously, had LaFreniere not been a #1 pick there’s no way in hell he makes the team out of camp last year.
Bobrov likely promised similar treatment to Kravtsov, yet he never once received it.
Combine that with a contentious relationship with Drury and I’m not surprised a spoiled and entitled kid wants out.

But Lafreniere was 1OA. C’est la vie. Apples and oranges. Kravtsov was considered a bit of a project, right?

 

[egelband]

I'd say it speaks more to the fact that Kravtsov moved to North America and then COVID hit and shortened two seasons.

Covid is indeed a big culprit here. Not enough time on the ice. Too much time to stew.

 

[egelband]

I am not out of touch
Just feel no need to encourage, or surrender to, the waves of Group-think already swirling here.
The modern sports multiverse is fueled by self-satisfying 'I could do better' and 'what were they thinking'

People may come to HFBoards for information, but many stay for the self-serving second-guessing
I come here for the information, and am constantly on the verge of quitting HFB due to the endless whining and mud-slinging.

With precious few exceptions (... Brashear ...) I support, to the end, all the guys NYR bring on board ...

And boy if folks think Lias pick (or Jessiman/McIlrath) deserves disgust,
good thing this stuff wasn't around for Jim Malone or Michael Stewart or Jeff Brown

Argh. Now you’ve done it. You’ve gone a brought ‘the multiverse’ into it.

 

[haohmaru]

BTW - guessing you were a lot higher on Lias than you are acknowledging.

I'd go back and pull quotes from years ago but it's really not worth the effort. I know exactly what I thought and what I said and the above, frankly, is just lazy.

 

[jay from jersey]

Rangers are really lucky that Kakko and Laff fell into their laps in back to back seasons. A nightmare scenario would be not having them and watching how the Lias, Krav, and DeAngelo situations are playing out.

Just to play devils advocate, they could have wound up with Lundell /Zergas instead.
Probably wouldn’t resign Zibby and they’d be looking to add 1-2 high end wingers.
Right now, it looks like all 4 guys are going to be nhl players for a long time, just with varying degrees of success.
I know both those guys were high on NYs wish list. In Zergas case, rangers made a pretty good push to try and trade up to get him as well at the draft

 

[duhmetreE]

They should have told him 'we need you to play center... so you have to go to Hartford to get comfortable'

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

Vitali Kravtsov: The Never Say Never Kid

 

[EdJovanovski]

Vitali Kravtsov: The Never Say Never Kid

Proving my theory, this was all part of the plan. He has a flare for the dramatics and is influenced by the greats of early theatre. ACT II: The Redemption Arc begins now