Post-Game Talk: Kraken 4 - Jets 3

[surixon]

The thing is, there are lots of players like him in the league. Soft and not strong defensively, but can fill the net.

There's also players who are great defensively and physically but can't score to save their lives.

They both have value. You can complain about them and try and change them, or, you can hope the team uses them in the right way.

Players who do it all are unicorns.

I appreciate what Connor is and though I think there is room for improvement I'm so glad we have him.

Last night he did like 8 frustrating things (5 of them on the same pp) but then he scored a goal.

No disagreements that you need players that can put the puck in the net. Just wish he brought more to the table without it but at this point in his career he is who he is.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think Seattle had 4 scoring chances and scored on all 4 of them. The Hockey gods were not kind last night. Terrible penalty call on Stanley but a really weak goal by Helly. Oh well it happens move on to the next one

 

[WpgSteve]

Our focus seemed off, lots of missed passes. Complete level didn't match Seattle. Lost most board battles and didn't force our way to the net. Helleybuck was bad. Seattle a bit lucky with pucks going in. Flu likely had an impact.

Even still, we could have won. Disappointing but no reason to lose hope.

 

[Gm0ney]

- I fully blame Dan Robertson for the Jets losing. As soon as he tells us the last game the Jets played without getting a penalty, they get a penalty.. and Seattle scores.

I was yelling "STFU DAN!" when he brought that up...

 

[Jet]

No disagreements that you need players that can put the puck in the net. Just wish he brought more to the table without it but at this point in his career he is who he is.

Exactly, and he's one of the very best in the league at it.

It's up to the coaches to leverage Connor in a way that maximizes his production while limiting his defensive deficiencies. At this point, it's on coaching. Much like how they use Ehlers in a way that should both benefit the player, maximize his output while ensuring the team gets maximum value for his play.

I still think BOTH players can do more to make up for their shortcomings. Connor needs to up his battle level when he doesn't have the puck, and Ehlers needs to try and play more within the teams playstyle while incorporating his incredible zone entry, playmaking, and shooting abilities.

 

[Jet]

I think Seattle had 4 scoring chances and scored on all 4 of them. The Hockey gods were not kind last night. Terrible penalty call on Stanley but a really weak goal by Helly. Oh well it happens move on to the next one

Yeah lots of criticism for the Jets game last night. I thought they had a lot of jump and their passing was pretty good. If Helle has his traditional game, we walk away with the win and people I think would have a different opinion of the game.

I thought Stanley was really good last night (outside of the penalty but when a stick breaks, what are you going to do?)

Pionk still has another level - it's all in his head. When he gets that drive he can be a Morrissey lite - physical, great at recovering possession, joining the rush. However, he just seems to go into a daze for spells and does stupid shit like unforced icings and that idiotic dump with the net empty and guys trapped in our zone.

I think it's confidence - because he's shown he can be a lot smarter than that.

 

[Crocket]

Agreed on the effort not being there but in fairness, quite a few guys are sick. It's a huge disadvantage, bad luck. But I imagine it's a few days to recover.

Should Viel get called up for the Vancouver festivities? That's going to be a rough one.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Can't win 'em all.
Jets weren't bad, exactly. Weren't good either. Sloppy D.

I expect a better effort tonight.

 

[gojetsgo]

Can't win 'em all.
Jets weren't bad, exactly. Weren't good either. Sloppy D.

I expect a better effort tonight.

I really don't think they will show up tonight

 

[DRW204]

No disagreements that you need players that can put the puck in the net. Just wish he brought more to the table without it but at this point in his career he is who he is.

you do need players who put the puck in the net for sure. if you were to compare the elite to v good goal-sorers in the league, which is a class he's certainly in, his defensive shortcomings are among the worst of the bunch. so idk why that just gets pushed to the side?

of the top-32 goal scorers in the NHL the last 3 seasons;
he's 31st in xGA/60, and 29th in goal-differential at 5v5 hockey (avg is +32). for shits and giggles, he's 31st in hits too with 87 and the average of the top-32 goal scorers being 214.

i don't buy the whole "he's a goal scorer who cares about everything else" argument esp. when 1) there's similarly scoring/depth charted players who do not have Connor H. back stopping them w/ better GA or Goal-Diff. or DEF results (which obviously has team effects too) & show some bite physically, and 2). there's pairings with him over a large amount of minutes that have produced good results terms of net-goals.

 

[snowkiddin]

I really don't think they will show up tonight

Typical Jets taking nights off

 

[Jet]

Typical Jets taking nights off

Oh, I don't know. I guarantee we won't get scored on.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Helly (and a few others) had an off game. If it's true that some sort of flu bug is making it way through the Jets' locker room (Helly?), I'll give them a pass for last night's game. On to the re-match.

 

[LowLefty]

you do need players who put the puck in the net for sure. if you were to compare the elite to v good goal-sorers in the league, which is a class he's certainly in, his defensive shortcomings are among the worst of the bunch. so idk why that just gets pushed to the side?

of the top-32 goal scorers in the NHL the last 3 seasons;
he's 31st in xGA/60, and 29th in goal-differential at 5v5 hockey (avg is +32). for shits and giggles, he's 31st in hits too with 87 and the average of the top-32 goal scorers being 214.

i don't buy the whole "he's a goal scorer who cares about everything else" argument esp. when 1) there's similarly scoring/depth charted players who do not have Connor H. back stopping them w/ better GA or Goal-Diff. or DEF results (which obviously has team effects too) & show some bite physically, and 2). there's pairings with him over a large amount of minutes that have produced good results terms of net-goals.

I'd like to see the list of 32 goal scorers if you have it handy -

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

you do need players who put the puck in the net for sure. if you were to compare the elite to v good goal-sorers in the league, which is a class he's certainly in, his defensive shortcomings are among the worst of the bunch. so idk why that just gets pushed to the side?

of the top-32 goal scorers in the NHL the last 3 seasons;
he's 31st in xGA/60, and 29th in goal-differential at 5v5 hockey (avg is +32). for shits and giggles, he's 31st in hits too with 87 and the average of the top-32 goal scorers being 214.

i don't buy the whole "he's a goal scorer who cares about everything else" argument esp. when 1) there's similarly scoring/depth charted players who do not have Connor H. back stopping them w/ better GA or Goal-Diff. or DEF results (which obviously has team effects too) & show some bite physically, and 2). there's pairings with him over a large amount of minutes that have produced good results terms of net-goals.

Has anyone ever said "He's a goal scorer who cares about everything else"?

It reads like a shirt you'd buy in China.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I really don't think they will show up tonight

Well how about Friday then?

SMH, so much negativity.

 

[Do or Die]

Pionk drives me to gin. Such inconsistency.....

 

[Howard Chuck]

Prime example. On the short handed goal, lost the battle on the boards due to poor effort which led to the breakaway. Losing board battles all game. Effort is there when puck is on his stick.

He lost possession 4 times on that PP alone.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The thing is, there are lots of players like him in the league. Soft and not strong defensively, but can fill the net.

There's also players who are great defensively and physically but can't score to save their lives.

They both have value. You can complain about them and try and change them, or, you can hope the team uses them in the right way.

Players who do it all are unicorns.

I appreciate what Connor is and though I think there is room for improvement I'm so glad we have him.

Last night he did like 8 frustrating things (5 of them on the same pp) but then he scored a goal.

I agree, but I have to play devil's advocate.... how many goals could we have scored if he wasn't on the top line or on the PP (Which is a stupid thing to say because that's where he is most useful)? We will never know obviously, but for the amount of times he loses possession you have to wonder how much more someone else on that line could help out 55 and whoever else is on his line.

I just wonder if we are giving up more than we are getting with KC. Again, I know there is no way of knowing, but we did just ducky without him while he was out.

Don't label me as a KC hater, I just don't like what I see a lot of the time he is playing, I still cheer every time he scores.

 

[Howard Chuck]

you do need players who put the puck in the net for sure. if you were to compare the elite to v good goal-sorers in the league, which is a class he's certainly in, his defensive shortcomings are among the worst of the bunch. so idk why that just gets pushed to the side?

of the top-32 goal scorers in the NHL the last 3 seasons;
he's 31st in xGA/60, and 29th in goal-differential at 5v5 hockey (avg is +32). for shits and giggles, he's 31st in hits too with 87 and the average of the top-32 goal scorers being 214.

i don't buy the whole "he's a goal scorer who cares about everything else" argument esp. when 1) there's similarly scoring/depth charted players who do not have Connor H. back stopping them w/ better GA or Goal-Diff. or DEF results (which obviously has team effects too) & show some bite physically, and 2). there's pairings with him over a large amount of minutes that have produced good results terms of net-goals.

I wonder if Buff was still playing if we would have heard another "you gotta move your feet".

 

[khoss]

And while Conners is struggling and giving the puck up regularly, why is he not bumped down the line-up like other players when they do the same? I love when he scores but hate his softness and lack of drive defending more. And don't get me started on the usual cut back along the wall instead of taking a puck to the net. One of his nicest goals ever is one he drove to the net.

 

[DRW204]

I agree, but I have to play devil's advocate.... how many goals could we have scored if he wasn't on the top line or on the PP (Which is a stupid thing to say because that's where he is most useful)? We will never know obviously, but for the amount of times he loses possession you have to wonder how much more someone else on that line could help out 55 and whoever else is on his line.

I just wonder if we are giving up more than we are getting with KC. Again, I know there is no way of knowing, but we did just ducky without him while he was out.

Don't label me as a KC hater, I just don't like what I see a lot of the time he is playing, I still cheer every time he scores.

on the top line i think there's a legit argument. he and PLD for example performed extremely well together on an individual level, & an overall line's net-goals level. i don't mind him on the PP, albeit he didn't have a great performance last night. he and scheifele are out two best shooters, they should have prominent roles.

and yeah you're comment when he was out is accurate too. they went 12-2-2 with a +27 goal differential

I'd like to see the list of 32 goal scorers if you have it handy -

over the last 3 seasons you can either use NST or quanthockey (here's quanthockey populated: NHL Player Stats in Last 3 Seasons). i did NaturalStatTricks all strengths goals, and then imported the player's 5v5 on-ice GF, GA, and xGA numbers in a sheet to sort, filter etc

 

[JetsNut]

Not like he took a big wind up, that play happens 15x a game. It's a call for sure but not if the stick doesn't break.

Completely agree, but when a stick breaks they can’t ignore it.

 

[Jet]

I agree, but I have to play devil's advocate.... how many goals could we have scored if he wasn't on the top line or on the PP (Which is a stupid thing to say because that's where he is most useful)? We will never know obviously, but for the amount of times he loses possession you have to wonder how much more someone else on that line could help out 55 and whoever else is on his line.

I just wonder if we are giving up more than we are getting with KC. Again, I know there is no way of knowing, but we did just ducky without him while he was out.

Don't label me as a KC hater, I just don't like what I see a lot of the time he is playing, I still cheer every time he scores.

No, it's a valid question. Be nice to explore it. See what Connor can produce on the second line, if there isn't much drop off then maybe the first line winning more matchups makes it a net benefit

 

[surixon]

And while Conners is struggling and giving the puck up regularly, why is he not bumped down the line-up like other players when they do the same? I love when he scores but hate his softness and lack of drive defending more. And don't get me started on the usual cut back along the wall instead of taking a puck to the net. One of his nicest goals ever is one he drove to the net.

Because certain players don't have to adhere to the accountability standards others do. It's like that on a good many teams where the best players have much more leeway.