Knowing what we know - who do you draft in a re-draft? 18 yr old Crosby or 18 yr old McDavid?

[Midnight Judges]

Chara could do like 35 pull ups. At 260 pounds, that is friggin nuts!

 

[blundluntman]

I don't get why people keep acting like Crosby is this magical rpg team buff character that singlehandedly leads teams to cups. Yes he has won before but it doesn't magically make him somebody who would lead Edmonton to Stanley Cups. Do people really think if Crosby was on the Oilers that they would've won already?

 

[Video Nasty]

Thing is, these are weak claims being made about a player for whom MANY strong claims can legitimately be made.

This is spot on. Crosby is obviously an all-timer, but he seems like the only one who has a decent portion of his case revolve around completely imaginary or strange attributes and accomplishments.

 

[TheGuiminator]

Not to be disrespectful to Sid. But I'm shocked McDavid isn't winning 90%-10%

They’re both generational players, with highly successful career, so the poll should be close (rightfully it is).

There’s no right or wrong answers of who you should pick and none should be winning the poll by a landslide

 

[McFlash97]

Crosby is leading this poll due to 2 things.

Cups
Bitterness


People can't stand the Oilers history of generational players

People will use the cups argument till the end of time. Crosby was carried to his third cup and Malkin was the man in his first cup. The Pens played the Nashville Predators and San Jose Sharks for 2 of those cup wins. The last teams that best the Oil. Knights and Avs would wipe these teams.

McDavid is still just 26. It's laughable to think in another decade he doesn't win a cup or 2 at this rate.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Neither player should be winning in a landslide. The poll results thus far seem pretty accurate.

There will always be a "What if" attached to Crosby's career. Undoubtedly, he wins the Hart, Lindsay, Art Ross etc in 2010-2011 sans Steckel hit. He wins the Art Ross without getting the mumps in 2015 too. I understand though you can't give credit for something not accomplished.

Both can make lesser players look better than they are. Both are first ballot Hall of famers. The cup argument is hard to really quantify. It's not as easy to say Crosby has three cups to none. Therefore he is automatically greater player. Too many factors involved.

Crosby is leading this poll due to 2 things.

Cups
Bitterness


People can't stand the Oilers history of generational players

People will use the cups argument till the end of time. Crosby was carried to his third cup and Malkin was the man in his first cup. The Pens played the Nashville Predators and San Jose Sharks for 2 of those cup wins. The last teams that best the Oil. Knights and Avs would wipe these teams.

McDavid is still just 26. It's laughable to think in another decade he doesn't win a cup or 2 at this rate.

Is it laughable though? If he stays in Edmonton, I would say chances are higher he doesn't win a cup vs winning one. If he goes to Colorado or something, yeah he probably wins at least one.

 

[Video Nasty]

McDavid is great, but even in this so called historic scoring season; he only outscored a near retirement Crosby by 4 points at 5on5. McDavid was 5th overall in the league, Draisaitl all the way down at 18th. Would it be crazy to say that a peak Crosby with peak Malkin for 50% of shifts would have beat 35 year old Crosby and McDavid as well?

What an awful take.

1. “So-called historic”.

If you followed this season and didn’t see how special it was, I guess just live forever in your past.

2. “Only outscored a near retirement Crosby by 4 points at 5on5”

As always, Crosby needs lies from his supporters to build up his case. McDavid outscored him by 9 points at EV, not 4. Also of note, McDavid outscored him SH 7 to 0. Crosby has just 4 points SH over the last 13 seasons and 11 for his entire career. But yeah, McDavid should just wait to score his points when a man down until his teammate is out of the box so he can have some more 5 on 5 points.

3. “McDavid was 5th overall in the league”

No, he was 3rd and behind the leader by 2 EVP. Again, neither of the players ahead of him had any SHP. He should have waited and scored a few of those at EV to be the leader in that too.

4. Crosby has 1 in 18 seasons with 70+ EVP. McDavid has 5 in 8 seasons. But yeah, McDavid should just not lead a historic PP unit and pass on points to juice those EV numbers up even more.

5. McDavid outscored Crosby by 60 points. He has outpointed or a favorite of Pens fans outpaced him every season he’s been in the league (Crosby has of course been between the ages of 28-35). Crosby was outscored by the likes of Benn, Tavares, and Kane at age 27 and 28. His big cases of 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 (age 23 and 25) saw him hold leads of 10 points over Stamkos before he went down. We of course don’t mind him scoring half of his points off the PP during the first of Art Rosses and winning by 6 points over Thornton.

There’s nothing in Crosby’s history that points to him at any age beating the current version of McDavid in a scoring race, so yes, it’s crazy.

 

[McFlash97]

Neither player should be winning in a landslide. The poll results thus far seem pretty accurate.

There will always be a "What if" attached to Crosby's career. Undoubtedly, he wins the Hart, Lindsay, Art Ross etc in 2010-2011 sans Steckel hit. He wins the Art Ross without getting the mumps in 2015 too. I understand though you can't give credit for something not accomplished.

Both can make lesser players look better than they are. Both are first ballot Hall of famers. The cup argument is hard to really quantify. It's not as easy to say Crosby has three cups to none. Therefore he is automatically greater player. Too many factors involved.



Is it laughable though? If he stays in Edmonton, I would say chances are higher he doesn't win a cup vs winning one. If he goes to Colorado or something, yeah he probably wins at least one.

Same way you can say if Makar came to Edmonton, the Oil would win. No logic here. Did you include salaries ? Any team he goes to would have take in his cap hit to the point that it would gut the team. His best chance will always be Edmonton. They have the 2nd best player in the game and a decently built team to make multiple runs. Assumptions are for the weak

 

[DearDiary]

What an awful take.

1. “So-called historic”.

If you followed this season and didn’t see how special it was, I guess just live forever in your past.

2. “Only outscored a near retirement Crosby by 4 points at 5on5”

As always, Crosby needs lies from his supporters to build up his case. McDavid outscored him by 9 points at EV, not 4. Also of note, McDavid outscored him SH 7 to 0. Crosby has just 4 points SH over the last 13 seasons and 11 for his entire career. But yeah, McDavid should just wait to score his points when a man down until his teammate is out of the box so he can have some more 5 on 5 points.

3. “McDavid was 5th overall in the league”

No, he was 3rd and behind the leader by 2 EVP. Again, neither of the players ahead of him had any SHP. He should have waited and scored a few of those at EV to be the leader in that too.

4. Crosby has 1 in 18 seasons with 70+ EVP. McDavid has 5 in 8 seasons. But yeah, McDavid should just not lead a historic PP unit and pass on points to juice those EV numbers up even more.

5. McDavid outscored Crosby by 60 points. He has outpointed or a favorite of Pens fans outpaced him every season he’s been in the league (Crosby has of course been between the ages of 28-35). Crosby was outscored by the likes of Benn, Tavares, and Kane at age 27 and 28. His big cases of 2010-2011 and 2012-2013 (age 23 and 25) saw him hold leads of 10 points over Stamkos before he went down. We of course don’t mind him scoring half of his points off the PP during the first of Art Rosses and winning by 6 points over Thornton.

There’s nothing in Crosby’s history that points to him at any age beating the current version of McDavid in a scoring race, so yes, it’s crazy.

In your rush to point me as a liar, you lied yourself by misrepresenting my post.

I clearly said 5on5 in my post. ES or even strength is nowhere in my post, because I'm bringing up stats where the teams are 5 against 5, not including 3 on 3 overtime stats.

So yes, I truthfully said McDavid had 4 5on5 points on Crosby and was 5th overall in the league.

 

[Video Nasty]

In your rush to point me as a liar, you lied yourself by misrepresenting my post.

I clearly said 5on5 in my post. ES or even strength is nowhere in my post, because I'm bringing up stats where the teams are 5 against 5, not including 3 on 3 overtime stats.

So yes, I truthfully said McDavid had 4 5on5 points on Crosby and was 5th overall in the league.

Okay, so more hocus pocus to try and make some vague point you think is in Crosby’s favor.

When you have to twist and contort to make this argument, you’ve already approached it in bad faith.

Imagine downplaying a 153 point season because your childhood pacifier is getting tossed in the trash.

 

[canuckking1]

Mcdavid probably ends up with quadruple the Art Ross trophies Crosby has and double possibly triple the Hart trophies

 

[Phil Kessels Hot Dog]

You think I shit on Crosby. I probably rank him as the 6th greatest player of all time.

I've never insulted or slandered Crosby. Crosby fans flat out slander Ovechkin, and every falsehood works for Crosby. Where do you rank Ovie? Some of you guys probably have him friggin 20th or some nonsense like that.

The Big 4 + McDavid. 6th is exactly where Sid belongs, glad to see you've finally come around.

 

[DearDiary]

Okay, so more hocus pocus to try and make some vague point you think is in Crosby’s favor.

When you have to twist and contort to make this argument, you’ve already approached it in bad faith.

Imagine downplaying a 153 point season because your childhood pacifier is getting tossed in the trash.

What did I twist and contort? That's exactly what you did and have yet to apologize for calling me a liar. Imagine calling 5on5 points a vague point over ES

 

[zenthusiast]

On the one hand it’s pretty clear but on the other only one of these players was at his peak when I was a teenager and most invested in the sport

 

[Sorry]

Defenders aren't bouncing off of Crosby period.

Funny, Chara said Crosby was the strongest and most difficult forward to defend that the had ever played against.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Funny, Chara said Crosby was the strongest and most difficult forward to defend that the had ever played against.

Are we just making shit up now? By all means post the quote or the video.

 

[Video Nasty]

Are we just making shit up now? By all means post the quote or the video.

“But who’s the best player Chara ever faced? In an interview with The Athletic in 2020, Chara named Pavel Datsyuk as his most memorable competitor.

“Pavel was just a player that played the game the right way,” Chara said.

Chara won’t forget the many times he faced the former Red Wings winger.

“I can’t say enough about the way he played. He played hard. If he needed to be, he would be very strong. If the team needed, he went to the front of the net. His skill and assets were above 99.9 percent of the players in the league. You can’t really find that many players with so many weapons.”

See, it’s right there. Pavel Datsyuk aka Sidney Crosby.

 

[pi314]

I don't get why people keep acting like Crosby is this magical rpg team buff character that singlehandedly leads teams to cups. Yes he has won before but it doesn't magically make him somebody who would lead Edmonton to Stanley Cups. Do people really think if Crosby was on the Oilers that they would've won already?

Everywhere Crosby goes, the team wins. For almost 3 decades.

People constantly make excuses that it's always the team.

He's won the championship at every level he's played.

That's a lot of "being lucky". For more than 2 and 1/2 decades.


People who have never played hockey just sort players 1-10 by their points. It's actually a really dumb way to rate players.

There's a reason they play to win the games.


Last competitive league I played in, the leading scoring was my center. He finished with 154 points.

He was a selfish puck hog, floated all game, never back checked, and for every 1 highlight reel goal, he turned it over 3x.

You constantly had to overcompensate for all the things he didn't do. Battle down low. Backcheck. Faceoffs. Etc etc.

He won the MVP of our league.


The second place scorer had 146 points.

He was a 200-foot monster, was arguably the best defensive player in the league, picked my pocket on a breakaway catching me from behind on the backcheck, and I never saw him make a bad play. He was just as good away from the puck as with it.

When it was all said and done, the second place scorer was 10x the player.

Not surprisingly, their team won the league championship and we got bounced early.

Real hockey is like that sometimes.

 

[blundluntman]

Everywhere Crosby goes, the team wins. For almost 3 decades.

People constantly make excuses that it's always the team.

He's won the championship at every level he's played.

That's a lot of "being lucky". For more than 2 and 1/2 decades.


People who have never played hockey just sort players 1-10 by their points. It's actually a really dumb way to rate players.

There's a reason they play to win the games.


Last competitive league I played in, the leading scoring was my center. He finished with 154 points.

He was a selfish puck hog, floated all game, never back checked, and for every 1 highlight reel goal, he turned it over 3x.

You constantly had to overcompensate for all the things he didn't do. Battle down low. Backcheck. Faceoffs. Etc etc.

He won the MVP of our league.


The second place scorer had 146 points.

He was a 200-foot monster, was arguably the best defensive player in the league, picked my pocket on a breakaway catching me from behind on the backcheck, and I never saw him make a bad play. He was just as good away from the puck as with it.

When it was all said and done, the second place scorer was 10x the player.

Not surprisingly, their team won the league championship and we got bounced early.

Real hockey is like that sometimes.

You know there's this thing called middle ground that exists, have you heard of that before? Sure Crosby is an instrumental and irreplaceable piece of the team. That doesn't mean he can will every single team to victory. Where did I say he was lucky? My point is that winning requires a whole team. This myth that Crosby is a selke level player (especially in his younger years) is completely untrue. I give him credit for being a big part of the reason he won in 2009, but he wasn't even the best forward on his team that year, nor was he any better at backchecking than McDavid. Believe it or not, playing on a good team actually does make a difference. In 2016-17, their forward depth was extremely good (they literally had Phil Kessel on their 3rd line), they had conn smythe-worthy performances from Matt Murray and had a decent enough defensive core to win games in a way Edmonton doesn't. Crosby is great and so were the teams he played on. Two things can be true at the same time.

Also, this narrative that McDavid is a floater and doesn't backcheck is crap and you must not watch him play. He's been much better as a 200 ft player. He backchecks and even kills penalties. You compare him to an offensively minded player that turns the puck over constantly but his +/- and performances say otherwise. He's clearly a net positive and I've watched him on plenty of occasions be the only reason Edmonton was still in some of the playoff games where Edmonton's goalies posted sub .900 sv%s. If you think McDavid is to blame for Skinner's .883 save percentage, I really don't know what to tell you. Even Crosby couldn't will his teams to victory when MA Fleury was shitting the bed in the early 2010s.

These false dichotomous narratives are very hard to take seriously when you actually watch hockey games and don't buy into biased opinions.

Also, you didn't answer my question, does Crosby win on this current Oilers team? If the results are the same when circumstances are changed, this "Crosby is a winner" argument is proven to be null and void.

 

[BraveCanadian]

McDavid is great, but even in this so called historic scoring season; he only outscored a near retirement Crosby by 4 points at 5on5. McDavid was 5th overall in the league, Draisaitl all the way down at 18th. Would it be crazy to say that a peak Crosby with peak Malkin for 50% of shifts would have beat 35 year old Crosby and McDavid as well?

So called historic lol

McDavid is the first to hit 150 in almost 30 years and put up the most primary points in a season by anyone in the “new” NHL era.

It’s not close, and McDavid is a strong ES scorer too.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I shock everyone and go with Kucherov, what the f*** you gotta say about it? Exactly.

 

[Three On Zero]

I shock everyone and go with Kucherov, what the f*** you gotta say about it? Exactly.

#1 bullshit

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You know there's this thing called middle ground that exists, have you heard of that before? Sure Crosby is an instrumental and irreplaceable piece of the team. That doesn't mean he can will every single team to victory. Where did I say he was lucky? My point is that winning requires a whole team. This myth that Crosby is a selke level player (especially in his younger years) is completely untrue. I give him credit for being a big part of the reason he won in 2009, but he wasn't even the best forward on his team that year, nor was he any better at backchecking than McDavid. Believe it or not, playing on a good team actually does make a difference. In 2016-17, their forward depth was extremely good (they literally had Phil Kessel on their 3rd line), they had conn smythe-worthy performances from Matt Murray and had a decent enough defensive core to win games in a way Edmonton doesn't. Crosby is great and so were the teams he played on. Two things can be true at the same time.

Also, this narrative that McDavid is a floater and doesn't backcheck is crap and you must not watch him play. He's been much better as a 200 ft player. He backchecks and even kills penalties. You compare him to an offensively minded player that turns the puck over constantly but his +/- and performances say otherwise. He's clearly a net positive and I've watched him on plenty of occasions be the only reason Edmonton was still in some of the playoff games where Edmonton's goalies posted sub .900 sv%s. If you think McDavid is to blame for Skinner's .883 save percentage, I really don't know what to tell you. Even Crosby couldn't will his teams to victory when MA Fleury was shitting the bed in the early 2010s.

These false dichotomous narratives are very hard to take seriously when you actually watch hockey games and don't buy into biased opinions.

Also, you didn't answer my question, does Crosby win on this current Oilers team? If the results are the same when circumstances are changed, this "Crosby is a winner" argument is proven to be null and void.

Crosby was a much better defensive player in 2009 than McDavid has ever been, especially in the playoffs.

If you focus on McDavid (that is not just when he has the puck) it's so obvious how much he's cheating towards offense.

So called historic lol

McDavid is the first to hit 150 in almost 30 years and put up the most primary points in a season by anyone in the “new” NHL era.

It’s not close, and McDavid is a strong ES scorer too.

It was also the highest scoring season in 30 years, not coincidentally

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

#1 bullshit

Ok fine. It was really Toews the whole time. Always was.

 

[Gurglesons]

I care about team championships and team success and Crosby’s success from 18-27 is obviously incredibly above what McDavid did.

I think McDavid is likely the better individual offensive threat tho.

You know there's this thing called middle ground that exists, have you heard of that before? Sure Crosby is an instrumental and irreplaceable piece of the team. That doesn't mean he can will every single team to victory. Where did I say he was lucky? My point is that winning requires a whole team. This myth that Crosby is a selke level player (especially in his younger years) is completely untrue. I give him credit for being a big part of the reason he won in 2009, but he wasn't even the best forward on his team that year, nor was he any better at backchecking than McDavid. Believe it or not, playing on a good team actually does make a difference. In 2016-17, their forward depth was extremely good (they literally had Phil Kessel on their 3rd line), they had conn smythe-worthy performances from Matt Murray and had a decent enough defensive core to win games in a way Edmonton doesn't. Crosby is great and so were the teams he played on. Two things can be true at the same time.

Also, this narrative that McDavid is a floater and doesn't backcheck is crap and you must not watch him play. He's been much better as a 200 ft player. He backchecks and even kills penalties. You compare him to an offensively minded player that turns the puck over constantly but his +/- and performances say otherwise. He's clearly a net positive and I've watched him on plenty of occasions be the only reason Edmonton was still in some of the playoff games where Edmonton's goalies posted sub .900 sv%s. If you think McDavid is to blame for Skinner's .883 save percentage, I really don't know what to tell you. Even Crosby couldn't will his teams to victory when MA Fleury was shitting the bed in the early 2010s.

These false dichotomous narratives are very hard to take seriously when you actually watch hockey games and don't buy into biased opinions.

Also, you didn't answer my question, does Crosby win on this current Oilers team? If the results are the same when circumstances are changed, this "Crosby is a winner" argument is proven to be null and void.

Sid has won at every single thing he did in his career outside of the memorial cup.