Kitchener Rangers 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

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EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
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I'm missing the reason why we need 2 acquire depth forwards after the decision to keep Martin. Especially two. I think we have enough players that can put together an effective 4th line.

I'd like a shutdown dman too. I think Romano would be almost enough to get Nelson. We may have to throw in a couple of conditional picks that we can recover when we trade we trade him next season should he return as an OA.

I'm still in the get the best player we can afford camp.
The last thing we should be doing is expecting the likes of Brzustewicz or a Nelson, if we ever acquired him, returning for OA seasons.

If they were returned back to junior, it would be a huge surprise. But to make deals with the expectation they’d be returned so we could move them is dangerous.

Brzustewicz especially is having the type of breakout season where if he was ever a probability prior, of playing an OA season, the year he’s having this year washes that down the drain.

Azevedo is a good comparable. Shoe-in for an OA season until he had the season he did as a 19 year old.
 
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DWI Dale

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Mar 23, 2014
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Funny how the best team in the OHL just isn't good enough!!

similar discussions have been going on in the Soo this year. i think it has more to do with limited draft cupboard capital than a knock against the teams themselves. typically it's nice to have a warchest stockpiled for the years you plan on contending and from what i've seen, soo fans and kitchener fans have similar anxieties about that (london too!)
 

RangerNation

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Jul 24, 2015
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We have 7 top 9F and then a whole bunch of good 4th liners.

Carson
Mesar
Swick
Martin
Sop
Misa
Lam

The rest of the forwards imo (probably lots of here) ago isn’t he playing on a 3rd line on a contending team.

Bottineau - Mercer - Pug

This 4th line currently I’m ok with. Leaving…..

Ellinas, Romano, Stark and Morey. They aren’t 3rd line players on a contending.

Hence why a lot of people still think we need an import F and a 3rd line center to fill the top 3 lines.
We also have to realize a contending team this year is not the same as previous years. We all thought this team was going to battle for 8th.

I can say this though, while the "3rd line" may not contend against other teams, I know the 1st, 2nd and "4th" will probably be better than theirs.

Take 1 player from the top list, a second from either Ellinas/Romano and a 3rd import and you have a great 3rd line, one that should do just fine against this years contending teams.

I am waaay more concerned about the D than 3rd line.
 

Jives

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Jan 6, 2018
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We also have to realize a contending team this year is not the same as previous years. We all thought this team was going to battle for 8th.

I can say this though, while the "3rd line" may not contend against other teams, I know the 1st, 2nd and "4th" will probably be better than theirs.

Take 1 player from the top list, a second from either Ellinas/Romano and a 3rd import and you have a great 3rd line, one that should do just fine against this years contending teams.

I am waaay more concerned about the D than 3rd line.

Teams aren’t done adding though. Saginaw scares me the most with their full cupboard and mem cup host. No point in not getting a legit 3rd line imo. It shouldn’t cost a lot. Cheap import (maybe free….hopefully) and a vet center. Romano shouldn’t be on the 3rd of a contending team. Some 16 year olds can be a top 9F at such a young age but I don’t see that in Romano. Lam I have no issues with being a middle 6 guy.
 

RangerNation

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Teams aren’t done adding though. Saginaw scares me the most with their full cupboard and mem cup host. No point in not getting a legit 3rd line imo. It shouldn’t cost a lot. Cheap import (maybe free….hopefully) and a vet center. Romano shouldn’t be on the 3rd of a contending team. Some 16 year olds can be a top 9F at such a young age but I don’t see that in Romano. Lam I have no issues with being a middle 6 guy.
Teams are still adding so if MM only has so much to work with, I'd prioritize getting D. I'm not holding my breath on the free Import. I think that shipped has sailed.
 
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bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Teams are still adding so if MM only has so much to work with, I'd prioritize getting D. I'm not holding my breath on the free Import. I think that shipped has sailed.
I doubt we ever see the import some think may show up here. I think he was a flyer at best. Be nice if it happened. Cinderella got lucky so why not the Rangers. And by Cinderella I don't mean the Knights.:naughty:
 

RB76

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Aug 22, 2023
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We have 7 top 9F and then a whole bunch of good 4th liners.

Carson
Mesar
Swick
Martin
Sop
Misa
Lam

The rest of the forwards imo (probably lots of here agree) shouldn’t be playing 3rd line on a contending team.

Bottineau - Mercer - Pug

This 4th line currently I’m ok with. Leaving…..

Ellinas, Romano, Stark and Morey. They aren’t 3rd line players on a contending.

Hence why a lot of people still think we need an import F and a 3rd line center to fill the top 3 lines.
I think Ellinas could be included in the top nine by virtue of his play this year.

Morey, Romano and Stark are going to get a chance to play over the next few weeks, let see what they can do against the likes of the SOO, Owen Sound, Saginaw, Sudbury.
 

digicamo

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Mar 31, 2023
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I think Ellinas could be included in the top nine by virtue of his play this year.

Morey, Romano and Stark are going to get a chance to play over the next few weeks, let see what they can do against the likes of the SOO, Owen Sound, Saginaw, Sudbury.
I agree with this. Ellinas has proved he can be a serviceable 9th F especially with how strong our 4th line is with this.

Ellinas - Import/Trade - Martin/Lam is a good enough 3rd line on a contending team. We need another D badly though. No way we can roll deep in the playoffs with Scott getting regular shifts unfortunately.
 

Habsrule

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Jun 13, 2004
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I wish the people would stop labeling the line numbers. We can all agree that Pugliese, Mercer, Bottineau is a line but what if we stay calling them the third line. They get just as much ice time, if not more than Morey, Stark, Romano.

Kitchener just needs to bring in one D and one bottom six F and call it a day. Use one of the pickups as an import who should cost less.
 

rangersblues

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Mar 21, 2010
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The last thing we should be doing is expecting the likes of Brzustewicz or a Nelson, if we ever acquired him, returning for OA seasons.

If they were returned back to junior, it would be a huge surprise. But to make deals with the expectation they’d be returned so we could move them is dangerous.

Brzustewicz especially is having the type of breakout season where if he was ever a probability prior, of playing an OA season, the year he’s having this year washes that down the drain.

Azevedo is a good comparable. Shoe in for an OA season until he had the season he did as a 19 year old.
I'm not expecting either Brzustewicz or Nelson (if we acquire him) back as OA. I was simply saying that we will have to cover that scenario with Nelson with conditional draft picks which won't likely come into play. And in the off chance they would come into play, we could recover the picks by trading him.
 

EvenSteven

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Sep 3, 2009
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Nelson is one of the top offensive D in the league. Team Canada invite. If he is traded, it’ll be to a team where he’ll be on the top pairing and the PP QB. He’s that good.

Are we bringing him here to bump Brzustewicz down to second pairing?

I don’t see it.
 
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EvenSteven

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By my count, we have 2x2nds, 3x3rds, and 4x4th available to be traded. Picks in later rounds are insignificant when talking about trading for higher end to elite players.

So if we made a big splash for a Nelson, for example, or any other elite player, Romano plus a couple picks may get it done. But when you also include conditionals on an OA season, those picks have to be tradable picks this year. Once that happens, we’d lose the opportunity to use those picks this year to further improve this team. And those conditionals would have to be significant pick(s) for a player of Nelson’s stature.

Not to mention Saginaw may be in on the bidding for him which puts us at a disadvantage from the get go with their draft cupboard.

As far as I’m concerned, going with Martin as the 3rd OA completes the top six. That’s a very strong top six period. We have a very strong 4th line. It’s the 3rd line that is the issue and if it isn’t improved, when we get deep in the post season, what Saginaw will throw at us as a third line will be likely as good or better than most team’s 2nd lines. To get through a long playoff run, depth is a major factor.

We have seen what Ellinas, Stark, Romano and Morey can provide. They had almost half a season so another few games won’t make a difference.

Lam is a good 3rd piece on a pretty good third line. Ellinas is ok but I feel the same about him as a key piece on the 3rd line as I do Campbell or Reid as a 2nd pairing D on a contender. Once we go deep in the post season, they’ll be exposed. I like all three, but not this year in 3rd line / 2nd pairing roles on a top contender - which we are. I don’t mind Lam as a 3rd piece in a 3rd line and maybe ditto Ellinas - just not at the same time.

So I feel, because of our thin draft cupboard, and the likelihood we won’t trade Reid, that we need to address our depth and that will make us pretty damn good. Adding a couple 3rd line forwards and two middle pairing veteran D puts us where we want to be.

Another reason to make sure we have a strong 3rd line and deep D is a reason nobody is talking about. What if we suffer an injury or two among the top six or top 4? Injuries happen sometimes. Especially during a long playoff run. Having a strong third line and deep D allows for a better opportunity at a successful “next man up” should there be injuries.

With the non ‘24 draft picks mentioned above, along with a Romano, and Ellinas (buy low sell high), we should be able to address our needs.

If we agree that we can’t afford to make a big splash for an elite player, these players here are the type we may be able to afford who’d address the depth on our D and 3rd line:

LW- Sandis Vilmanis - Sar
LC- Ryan Abraham - Win
C- Andrew LeBlanc - Sar
RW- Zachary Lavoie - Nia

LD- Konnor Smith - Pet
RD- Luca D’Amato - Osh
LD- Tnias Mathurin - NB
D- Jacob LeBlanc - Sar
D- Blake Smith - Flint

Not all these players are of the same calibre. We could afford one of Abraham / Lavoie. One of Smith / Mathurin. Then go with a less expensive second F and D.

We don’t want to touch our ‘24 picks, but if we get down to having to move the 2nd’24(ER) to get a deal done, I’d do it if we can hold onto the 2nd’26(Sag) that came over in the Schmidt deal. That way, we could do a draft week deal where the 2nd’26(Sag) plus another pick or two could be moved for a 2nd’24.

Today, I believe Flint has 3x2nds’24 and 2x3rds’24 so they’d be a good draft week trade partner since I don’t think they’ll be all in to move those picks at this deadline

Current tradable assets (desirable young players and picks):

Reid. Romano. Ellinas. Campbell.
2x2nds. 3x3rds. 4x4ths.

Not saying MM has these guys on the table, and I’d be pretty surprised if we dealt both 16 year olds. But they are the players, depending on the return, who are able to be traded, that would intrigue trade partners.
 
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bobber

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Jan 21, 2013
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Kitchener Ontario
Would be a huge surprise to see MM land a big fish with the assets he has available. There has been no mention of North Bay trading Nelson on their thread. They are right in the mix in the east. Not sure where they are with assets but Nelson would cost some team a ton of assets. It does seem like MM is still focused on a shot at the next Mem Cup when it returns to the OHL. Despite the Rangers success they seem to be in that grey area looking ahead to the deadline. The OA situation has been taken care of for the most part. What would it cost to bring in an import from another franchise if MM goes that way? Plus what effect would Hamara asking for a trade out of Kitchener have on a potential import player coming here. The Schmidt trade should give a vet defenseman coming in more minutes. Lots of questions.
 
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digicamo

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Mar 31, 2023
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By my count, we have 2x2nds, 3x3rds, and 4x4th available to be traded. Picks in later rounds are insignificant when talking about trading for higher end to elite players.

So if we made a big splash for a Nelson, for example, or any other elite player, Romano plus a couple picks may get it done. But when you also include conditionals on an OA season, those picks have to be tradable picks this year. Once that happens, we’d lose the opportunity to use those picks this year to further improve this team. And those conditionals would have to be significant pick(s) for a player of Nelson’s stature.

Not to mention Saginaw may be in on the bidding for him which puts us at a disadvantage from the get go with their draft cupboard.

As far as I’m concerned, going with Martin as the 3rd OA completes the top six. That’s a very strong top six period. We have a very strong 4th line. It’s the 3rd line that is the issue and if it isn’t improved, when we get deep in the post season, what Saginaw will throw at us as a third line will be likely as good or better than most team’s 2nd lines. To get through a long playoff run, depth is a major factor.

We have seen what Ellinas, Stark, Romano and Morey can provide. They had almost half a season so another few games won’t make a difference.

Lam is a good 3rd piece on a pretty good third line. Ellinas is ok but I feel the same about him as a key piece on the 3rd line as I do Campbell or Reid as a 2nd pairing D on a contender. Once we go deep in the post season, they’ll be exposed. I like all three, but not this year in 3rd line / 2nd pairing roles on a top contender - which we are. I don’t mind Lam as a 3rd piece in a 3rd line and maybe ditto Ellinas - just not at the same time.

So I feel, because of our thin draft cupboard, and the likelihood we won’t trade Reid, that we need to address our depth and that will make us pretty damn good. Adding a couple 3rd line forwards and two middle pairing veteran D puts us where we want to be.

Another reason to make sure we have a strong 3rd line and deep D is a reason nobody is talking about. What if we suffer an injury or two among the top six or top 4? Injuries happen sometimes. Especially during a long playoff run. Having a strong third line and deep D allows for a better opportunity at a successful “next man up” should there be injuries.

With the non ‘24 draft picks mentioned above, along with a Romano, and Ellinas (buy low sell high), we should be able to address our needs.

If we agree that we can’t afford to make a big splash for an elite player, these players here are the type we may be able to afford who’d address the depth on our D and 3rd line:

LW- Sandis Vilmanis - Sar
LC- Ryan Abraham - Win
C- Andrew LeBlanc - Sar
RW- Zachary Lavoie - Nia

LD- Konnor Smith - Pet
RD- Luca D’Amato - Osh
LD- Tnias Mathurin - NB
D- Jacob LeBlanc - Sar
D- Blake Smith - Flint

Not all these players are of the same calibre. We could afford one of Abraham / Lavoie. One of Smith / Mathurin. Then go with a less expensive second F and D.

We don’t want to touch our ‘24 picks, but if we get down to having to move the 2nd’24(ER) to get a deal done, I’d do it if we can hold onto the 2nd’26(Sag) that came over in the Schmidt deal. That way, we could do a draft week deal where the 2nd’26(Sag) plus another pick or two could be moved for a 2nd’24.

Today, I believe Flint has 3x2nds’24 and 2x3rds’24 so they’d be a good draft week trade partner since I don’t think they’ll be all in to move those picks at this deadline

Current tradable assets (desirable young players and picks):

Reid. Romano. Ellinas. Campbell.
2x2nds. 3x3rds. 4x4ths.

Not saying MM has these guys on the table, and I’d be pretty surprised if we dealt both 16 year olds. But they are the players, depending on the return, who are able to be traded, that would intrigue trade partners.
I wonder what the vibe would be amongst the organization and fans in trying to bring back the LeBlanc brothers. Both are having a good season and a combo trade would fill our two holes. Curious what the cost would be if they're actually available.
 

Jives

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Jan 6, 2018
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I don’t think there was any hard feelings on the LeBlanc trade. At that point they were moved looking for more ice time. Right now Andrew is #1 D in Sarnia and Jacob looks to be 1st line center. Would Andrew be ok not being the guy on D? Would Jacob be ok with being a 3rd line center behind Carson and Sop? They are exactly what this team needs.

Import - LaBlanc - Lam

Is a heck of a 3rd line.

Bruz - Ando
Motew - LaBlanc

Is a very solid top 4D.

I’m sure MM has atleast reached out asking the price.
 

RangerNation

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Jul 24, 2015
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London
Ive also been wondering if the twins make their way back. Sarnia also has an import of interest too in Vilmanis. Is Sarnia willing to deal 3 players and NOT expect someone like Romano coming back with picks? I don't think so.
 

Jives

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Jan 6, 2018
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Ellinas
Morey
2024 4th
2026 2nd
2026 2nd
2026 4th
2028 2nd

For

Leblanc twins
Vilmanis

I’d personally do it.

Leblanc twins have potential to be back as OAs and traded to recoup some picks next season. Hurts losing Ellinas but with those 2F adds where does he play? We recoup a lot of the 2nds with Ando and Carson trade next year. Our 2007 core and 2024 high picks untouched.
 
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K2

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Jun 11, 2015
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Would Andrew be ok not being the guy on D? Would Jacob be ok with being a 3rd line center behind Carson and Sop?
Andrew is the C, Jacob is the D.

Ellinas
Morey
2024 4th
2026 2nd
2026 2nd
2026 4th
2028 2nd

For

Leblanc twins
Vilmanis

I’d personally do it.
I'd bet Sarnia would love this deal even without the 2028. Costs them a decent but departing import and the twins they got for a 5th, 6th, 14th & 15th. Big overpayment IMO, much as I like Jacob LeBlanc and expect that Vilmanis would contribute. Could be a seller's market at the crunch but I'm hoping MM's working with a sharper pencil ;)
 
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bobber

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When you start throwing valuable 2nds around it sure as hell better be worth it in the long run. Not sure the twins would want to move again to their 4th team but what do I know. I think the Sarnia GM would run like hell to the bank with all those picks . I just never thought I would see 2nds bandied about with twins names attached. It's that time of the season.
 

rangersblues

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Mar 21, 2010
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I had no problems with the LeBlancs. Andrew took a while to develop although I thought he showed some brief flashes; I think the year off from covid really affected him. Jacob seemed to be developing into a solid dman.
 
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RangerNation

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London
I had no problems with the LeBlancs. Andrew took a while to develop although I thought he showed some brief flashes; I think the year off from covid really affected him. Jacob seemed to be developing into a solid dman.
I wish they could have kept Jacob but, I get what is being done here. It does feel like they would be a great fit. I would NOT be throwing 2nds around though.
 

GeoBlue

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Oct 21, 2017
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Kitchener
I wonder what the vibe would be amongst the organization and fans in trying to bring back the LeBlanc brothers. Both are having a good season and a combo trade would fill our two holes. Curious what the cost would be if they're actually available.
I would personally pass on the LeBlanc thing. They were a step behind when they were here and who is to say they would not be a step behind on this version of the Rangers? Let them enjoy being the kingpins in Sarnia. Besides, I have never been a fan of these families that want to keep their boys together........the package deals. It really ties ones hands.
 

Ward Cornell

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Dec 22, 2007
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The twins seems to be a packaged deal, where one goes the other follows. That may reduce their trade value as OAs
I'm still not sold on next yr being a sell yr. I suspect MM will try to maximize Jussis stay here with the Rangers still having a good team next yr.
if MM goes into a major sell mode after this season maybe he should trade Jussi also? 😉
 
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