Kitchener Rangers 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[Jives]

Does this team need to add a star forward, or would a bigger need be adding to the back end? Looking at the other teams in the west considered to be possible contenders, whether it be Saginaw, London, Soo, they all have two (or more) scoring defensemen.

The need all depends on what OA they trade. Right now their top 4D are solid but 2 of them are OA. The top 6F are solid but 2 of them are OA. Whatever OA MM decides to trade is were the weakness wil be.

 

[TheBlueMonster]

Early times still. Lots to work on, rookie coach, not a lot trade ammo in the cabinet. It's probably still a sell year

Wouldn't really call him a rookie coach. He's coached at the World Juniors. He's won Gold in one of them and Gold at the U18's. Widely known as one of the most decorated coaches in Europe.

He's as seasoned and qualified as the best of them in Junior Hockey with a chance that he graduates to the pro's next season if he wanted.

 

[Krangers08]

Ottawa drafting Brzustewicz is a blessing in disguise. By all accounts Ranger’s traded for that second round pick to land Henry but Lam landed in their laps.

 

[EvenSteven]

No matter the OA moved out, we’ll have a big hole to fill as a result. It might make sense to gamble on Martin, move out Schmidt, then go after a top 4 D. A healthy Schmidt should bring more in return than a sketchy Martin. And, Martin when he returns, will be a playoff gem.

If Romano is in play, it may make more sense to use that chip on a couple of pretty good pieces than one big addition like Beck. Beck would likely cost Romano and most of our available high picks. But if we can use Romano to strengthen our middle six, and address the D, perhaps that’s the way to go? Maybe Bottineau is used as well to make sure we protect the high ‘24 draft picks?

Romano / Bottineau out. Pretty good 3rd line center and top four D in. Depending on the caliber coming back our way, maybe a pick or two comes as well.

Then, fill the import spot on the cheap, Sarnia’s LW-Vilmanis? (Hamara return) to bolster the top six.

While we’re at it, a depth D would be nice too. You can’t have too many D on a long playoff run. Holden Wale type addition?

 

[rangersblues]

No matter the OA moved out, we’ll have a big hole to fill as a result. It might make sense to gamble on Martin, move out Schmidt, then go after a top 4 D. A healthy Schmidt should bring more in return than a sketchy Martin. And, Martin when he returns, will be a playoff gem.

If Romano is in play, it may make more sense to use that chip on a couple of pretty good pieces than one big addition like Beck. Beck would likely cost Romano and most of our available high picks. But if we can use Romano to strengthen our middle six, and address the D, perhaps that’s the way to go? Maybe Bottineau is used as well to make sure we protect the high ‘24 draft picks?

Romano / Bottineau out. Pretty good 3rd line center and top four D in. Depending on the caliber coming back our way, maybe a pick or two comes as well.

Then, fill the import spot on the cheap, Sarnia’s LW-Vilmanis? (Hamara return) to bolster the top six.

While we’re at it, a depth D would be nice too. You can’t have too many D on a long playoff run. Holden Wale type addition?

I wouldn't give up Romano + picks for Beck. But somehow I get the feeling Romano may be enough. I definitely do that. I always feel best player available wins the trade at the deadline, especially if you're filling top 6 forwards.

I'm unsure if any other team would give up their first rounder; it's pretty rare these days. Also unsure of what contender has the boatload of picks that would be equal value to a fairly proven first rounder like Romano. IF Beck is in play.

 

[EvenSteven]

I wouldn't give up Romano + picks for Beck. But somehow I get the feeling Romano may be enough. I definitely do that. I always feel best player available wins the trade at the deadline, especially if you're filling top 6 forwards.

I'm unsure if any other team would give up their first rounder; it's pretty rare these days. Also unsure of what contender has the boatload of picks that would be equal value to a fairly proven first rounder like Romano. IF Beck is in play.

If Saginaw, Guelph or Sudbury want Beck, they’ll easily outbid us.

 

[rangersblues]

If Saginaw, Guelph or Sudbury want Beck, they’ll easily outbid us.

Not saying we get into a bidding war but I think we at least have to make an offer we (the team) could live with.

 

[GeoBlue]

If Saginaw, Guelph or Sudbury want Beck, they’ll easily outbid us.

.

 

[EvenSteven]

I think we have two high end centers now. I’m comfortable with those two. If we bring in another high end center, a Sop gets shuffled to the third line or 2nd line wing. Does he lose effectiveness?

I’m thinking we bring in a veteran center, who’s a step below Rehkopf/Sop, to solidify the third line. Add a veteran LW of similar caliber, to play on the third line and Lam plays on the right side of that line.

We do little to no adjustment to the top two lines. Don’t want to possibly screw up the mojo. Just create a solid, productive third line via trade.

 

[Krangers08]

First of two 3 in 3 this weekend. Owensound-Guelph-Flint. How many points do they come away with? I’m going with 3

 

[RangerNation]

First of two 3 in 3 this weekend. Owensound-Guelph-Flint. How many points do they come away with? I’m going with 3

I'm happy with 4 or 5. Jussi would prefer 7.

 

[EvenSteven]

First of two 3 in 3 this weekend. Owensound-Guelph-Flint. How many points do they come away with? I’m going with 3

4pts. Malboeuf I bet gets the Saturday start. That’s a tough Guelph team. That’s a game we may lose.

Win Friday and Sunday.

 

[RangerNation]

For what it's worth in this whole sell, don't sell situation. At the next draft, MM will be drafting kids BORN the same year Rangers last made it to the OHL finals. In that time, I don't think we have seen a high flying team like this. I'd be a shame not to see it through.

 

[Petes1987]

I wouldn't give up Romano + picks for Beck. But somehow I get the feeling Romano may be enough. I definitely do that. I always feel best player available wins the trade at the deadline, especially if you're filling top 6 forwards.

I'm unsure if any other team would give up their first rounder; it's pretty rare these days. Also unsure of what contender has the boatload of picks that would be equal value to a fairly proven first rounder like Romano. IF Beck is in play.

The Petes are going to want a 16 or 17 year old player plus two 2nds and one or two, 3rds for Owen Beck. There is no way they will trade him straight up for a 16 year old player. Draft picks will be an important part of any deal for him. He is likely going be the most sought after player at the trade deadline. He is a player who plays a 200 foot game, he is among the league leaders in face off wins and face off win percentage. He is currently on a tear offensively. After only having one point in his first 6 games he has scored 10 goals and 8 assists in his last 11 games including 10 points in the last four games.

 

[RangerNation]

The Petes are going to want a 16 or 17 year old player plus two 2nds and one or two, 3rds for Owen Beck. There is no way they will trade him straight up for a 16 year old player. Draft picks will be an important part of any deal for him. He is likely going be the most sought after player at the trade deadline. He is a player who plays a 200 foot game, he is among the league leaders in face off wins and face off win percentage. He is currently on a tear offensively. After only having one point in his first 6 games he has scored 10 goals and 8 assists in his last 11 games including 10 points in the last four games.

But Kitchener only needs him for 190 feet so surely it's less draft picks right?

 

[EvenSteven]

But Kitchener only needs him for 190 feet so surely it's less draft picks right?

We’re not paying the price they want for him. We can’t pay the price they want. The only way he comes here is if he’ll only report here.

I can’t see it happening.

 

[Rangers True Blue]

I'm a very firm "I don't know which direction the Rangers should go".
But I suspect deep down do a soft buy and then sell in the off season before the draft, just to kick start the rebuild. I would probably try picking up a depth 19 yr old dman, trade Schmidt and retain Martin upfront.
Keep Romano and definitely keep Reid. As for Lam, more and more impressed with him. Where the heck does he get the power behind his wrist shots with his 145lbs?

And the laser-like accuracy of his shot is stellar. Also, doesn't seem fazed by the older, stronger boys. He's only going to get better with Ahokas and team.

 

[EvenSteven]

I'm a very firm "I don't know which direction the Rangers should go".
But I suspect deep down do a soft buy and then sell in the off season before the draft, just to kick start the rebuild. I would probably try picking up a depth 19 yr old dman, trade Schmidt and retain Martin upfront.
Keep Romano and definitely keep Reid. As for Lam, more and more impressed with him. Where the heck does he get the power behind his wrist shots with his 145lbs?

Umm, this is another long one.

I’m also a very firm, “I don’t know which direction the Rangers should go” guy.

We have a few more weeks to see where we are, but I’m betting there’s no way MM looks at the current team and it’s standing, and sells. Though I’m not in favour, that’s why a Romano may be in play.

But,

Should we decide to sell, I have a direction in which I think we should go.

Should we decide to buy, I have a pretty good way to do so that we can afford, that makes us better, and addresses the future.


How I’d sell:

First, I can get behind buying but only with the future in mind. My hypothetical two parter (Lardis/Rehkopf) a while back is a very good example but realistically, very hard to pull off. I mean, you’d have to target the right 05 that makes us that much better. Then, he has to play on a team that isn’t contending this year but will go all in next year. And, for that team to want to do it, Rehkopf would have to be an upgrade on next year’s version of the player coming our way at the deadline. For example, Owen Sound may not want to get tied up in a deal like this if they feel Colby Barlow will be on par with Rehkopf next year. So I’m not holding my breath on such a deal happening, but you never know.

Second, IMO, there’s no way we move young quality assets for graduating, high end ‘04’s. Those types of moves would cripple our future. The only way I make Romano or Reid available is if the return addresses the future in a significant way.

Standing pat isn’t an option in my mind. It won’t improve the team and doesn’t address the future.

But if we sell at all, even a soft sell that weakens this year’s team in the least, then we may as well be all out sellers.

Other contenders in the west will get better. Saginaw is already in “all in” mode. London, Guelph, and the Soo should follow suit in some manner. Owen Sound could be starting a climb up the standings. All have deeper draft cupboards than the Rangers. Unless we are willing to move youth, we cannot go all in hard.

So, if we’re selling, we don’t have to decimate this year’s team. I’d only shop graduating assets that will give us the biggest bang for our buck.

What’s the point in moving a lesser OA or two (Motew and/or a health questionable Martin) for that 3rd and 5th that Lockhart went for? They would likely be more value to us finishing the season here helping develop our youth.

So if we are selling graduating players, who gives us the biggest bang for our buck?

The answer is Brzustewicz, Sop and Mesar. I’d 100% put these three on the block. I sell these guys hard and I listen to offers on Parsons and Schmidt if there are any.

Those are big pieces who’d bring massive return collectively. The remaining players still allows us to be pretty good this year, make the playoffs and be a tough out in the first round. I think I may keep Schmidt, especially if Parsons was moved. Having a strong D, even in a sell year, is important.

And more importantly, next year, in a down year, we’ll have a good group to move for futures in Rehkopf, Andonovski, Swick, Miseljevic, etc.

Brzustewicz either brings us Del Mastro return (‘23 1st rounder, plus a 2nd. Maybe more depending on the quality of the 1st rounder), or at worst, Kyrou return (good ‘06 player. 2x2nds. 3rd. 4th. 5th)

Sop brings us Xhekaj / Morrison return. Currently the league’s top OA scorer, on pace for 40 goals and 100+ points, stellar 200 foot player. PK. PP. The list goes on. When was the last time he took a game off? Exactly! He’d be in demand and surely an upgrade on any team’s OA forward.

Mesar would bring Faksa return at least. 2x2nds, plus a possible cast off import. He’s at almost two points per game since his return. This year’s version of Mesar is leaps and bounds ahead of last year’s version.

If there’s a contender out there who is questioning their current goaltending, Parsons would be their answer. I think Jacob Ingham return makes sense. (2nd. 3rd. 3rd. 4th*). We’d be fine I think with Malboeuf and whoever came the other way. But if we keep Parsons, I make Schmidt available. If we deal Parsons, Schmidt stays.

All those deals in, we’re in the ballpark of 7x2nds. 5x3rds. 3x4ths added to the cupboard.

As far as dealing Rehkopf this year (in an all out sell, not a two parter) vs keeping him. As MM said, it would have to be a “blow the doors off” offer. For me, that’s Owen Beck return absolute minimum, but likely more. If he were put on the block today, you could make an argument that he’d be the #1 forward available. But it would depend a ton on the 1st rounder coming back to us. For instance, if Saginaw is the trade partner, the picks have to be more since Young was a late 1st rounder. I’ve been suggesting Sudbury as a trade partner. But I’m not so sure about Caden Taylor. His not being invited to the U17 could be a red flag, Tanner Lam’s exclusion notwithstanding. Same goes for London and Henry B. London displayed that Henry was worth 2x2nds and a 3rd. For me, we can get the Beck picks plus the Henry B return for Rehkopf next year.

I just think if we can move the graduating players I mentioned above, we still ice a competitive team this year and have multiple chips to sell in a down year next year. Do all that, and by the start of 25-26, this team should be lights out.

So, if we did move the players above, our lineup post trade deadline (mix and match):

Swick.Rehkopf. Miseljevic
Martin. Mercer. Lam.
Ellinas. Morey. Romano.
Bottineau. Stark. Pug.

Andonovski. Schmidt.
Motew. Reid.
Campbell. Scott.

Malboeuf

There’d likely be a castoff goalie and a forward or two coming back. Maybe an import. If both Sop and Schmidt go, no doubt an OA comes back. Someone among those players could step into the second line center spot. These castoff players would likely be of the Cole Carter / Andrew Burns calibre from the Bracco deal. Decent OHLers who wouldn’t have gotten the minutes had they stayed with their team. There could also be a young player or two coming back as well. Work all of these into the above post deadline lineup and we’d still have a competitive team that would be a tough out in the post season. Maybe even win a round depending on where we’d be seeded.

Going into next year, we’d have some pretty good returning 04’s to pick from as OA’s.
Miseljevic.
Swick.
Pugliese.
Malboeuf.

Our lineup going into camp next year:

Swick. Rehkopf.Miseljevic
Ellinas. Romano. Lam.
Bottineau. Stark. Mercer.
Arquette. Morey. 16 yr old.
16 yr old.

Andonovski. Reid.
Campbell. Scott.
MacNiel. 16 yr old.
16 yr old.

Malboeuf.
Edwards.

We’d have four 16 year olds mixed in from the ‘24 draft. Plus I hang onto Pugliese so that when a higher calibre OA is moved, he slots in.



How I’d buy:

Now there are arguments to be made about buying. About moving one or both our 1st rounders.

But we fell in love with the 05 group as 16 year olds. That draft looked great. To be sure, Rehkopf and Andonovski are studs. But Mercer is regressing offensively. I thought he could be another Scott Timmins type player, and there’s still time, but thus far he’s way behind where I’d hoped he’d be. I thought Zidlicky would be a close to a point a game player by now. He showed great promise as a 16 year old but hasn’t improved offensively. He’s a third year player and this year, sits at 5pts to date. Dealing him for picks doesn’t look like such a bad deal for us now. No other player from that draft is in the league. It doesn’t help that we didn’t have a 2nd rounder that year either.

My point is that we fell in love with the 05 group and we’re getting a little burned by them. Now fast forward to today and we’re raving about this group. Rightfully so. But is it possible that a couple of these guys don’t live up to expectations?
All four look like very good to high end players. But it is possible there may be a Mike Davies or Grayson Ladd 1st rounder in that group? Decent OHLers but by no means high end?

Are we putting too much value on these guys? It’s possible that from the start of the season to the deadline, there may be a reason that MM may think it would be worth it to move one from one of our 1sts. Not because they are a bust, but because the outlook on them today may differ a little to the outlook on them at the draft. Maybe that could make it easier to include one of them in a trade.

This is all speculation by me. From my vantage point, I see nothing that would indicate that there is any reason to move on from any of the 07’s. I’m just thinking out loud, if you will, wondering if there may be any more reason for motivation by MM to decide to move an 07 at the deadline other than the obvious - pay a steep price to get some help in here to contend.


So, total hypothetical. Not married to the players I suggest coming in. Just an example of the type of moves we’d make to improve the team, while not upsetting the apple cart, and help the future.

In:
C-Ryan Abraham.
D-Noah Van Vliet.
LW-Sandis Vilmanis.

Out:
Luca Romano
Justin Bottineau
Roman Schmidt


What could Ryan Abraham bring as a 3rd line center? In his injury shortened season last year he was over a point a game on a deep team. I think he’d be rejuvenated coming to a contender. Perhaps get back to last year’s offensive pace? He brings more than offence as well. He’s not having a good year this year, but nobody is in Windsor. Change of scenery could put the former 1st rounder back on track. Shouldn’t be too expensive. Can be a bit of a shift disturber here and there but Jussi could steer that act in the right direction.

My thoughts on a deal: I’m valuing Romano at 2x2nds, 2x3rds, 4th. I base this comparable on the ballpark return of past defected 1st rounders who were drafted around the middle of the 1st round. Based on his season so far this year, I’m valuing Abraham at 2x3rds. The conditions on the 4th’27(Kit) are on Abraham playing an OA season.

To Kitchener:
04-C-Ryan Abraham
2nd’24(Nia)
2nd’26(Win)
4th’26(Ott)

To Windsor:
Luca Romano
4th’27(Kit)*

This improves our third line and gives us an option that could move up to the top six if need be. It helps the future with the picks that come with Abraham. That 2nd’(Nia) would be huge.


Then, Noah Van Vliet.

Big, solid, stay at home vet with experience on a winner. Would solidify the third pairing if we wanted to keep Reid and Campbell on opposite pairings. But good enough to play top four. Replaces Schmidt who’d be the odd OA out.

To Brantford:
Justin Bottineau

To Kitchener:
04-LD-Noah Van Vliet.

Player for player. Brantford gets minimum 2.5 years of Bottineau who, with better opportunity should start putting up better offence. Currently buried down our lineup being asked to play grind-line hockey.


Then, Sandis Vilmanis.

The Hamara deal should have set the price for pretty good import 04’s. Sarnia is rebuilding so I expect they’d be happy with the picks.

To Sarnia:
3rd’27(Kit)
4th’25(Ott)

To Kitchener:
04-LW-Sandis Vilmanis

Vilmanis, like Abraham, gives us quality on the 3rd line. Can also move up the lineup if need be.


Then, Roman Schmidt.

Lleyton Moore went for a 2nd, 3rd, 8th. All picks a couple years away. Could we get the same for Schmidt? I’m skeptical. Maybe if they were very distant. ‘27 draft?

To Missy:
Roman Schmidt.

To Kitchener:
2nd’27(Mis).
3rd’27(Mis).

Missy has an OA spot open and not wanting to burn a ton of their draft capitol, a cheaper add of an NHL drafted D would shore up the back end.


This is how we’d look after the deadline:


Swick. Rehkopf. Mesar.
Martin. Sop. Miseljevic.
Vilmanis. Abraham. Lam.
Ellinas. Mercer. Pugilese.
Stark. Morey.

Brzustewicz. Andonovski.
Motew. Reid.
Van Vliet. Campbell.
Scott.

Parsons
Malboeuf


Going into the ‘24 draft, we’d have:
1st
2nd(Nia)
2nd(Er)
3rd(OS)
4th

I think that’s right where we want to be going into the draft. That gives us a great chance at a very good ‘08 draft class.


I don’t know if we’d be good enough to go all the way. But I do know that we’d be better than we are now. We didn’t break what didn’t need to be fixed by inserting a top end guy into the top six causing someone to play out of position or down the lineup. For the most part, we kept the gang together.

And we were able to address the future somewhat via picks and still have healthy group of quality returnees who could be moved next year for significant return. I suspect getting that 2nd’24(Nia) along with the landslide next year that dealing Rehkopf would bring would ease the pain of moving Romano.


At the end of the day, I really don’t see us selling now. We are passing all the tests. Everyone is clicking. Another big test this weekend. 4 of 6 points would further solidify a no-sell stance.






 

[Gondrex]

Umm, this is another long one.

I’m also a very firm, “I don’t know which direction the Rangers should go” guy.

We have a few more weeks to see where we are, but I’m betting there’s no way MM looks at the current team and it’s standing, and sells. Though I’m not in favour, that’s why a Romano may be in play.

But,

Should we decide to sell, I have a direction in which I think we should go.

Should we decide to buy, I have a pretty good way to do so that we can afford, that makes us better, and addresses the future..........

I don't see the sudden rise of Saginaw in the standings necessarily as a bad thing. It hopefully brings a dose of reality to MM that they are driving the bus. Remaining Ranger assets can't be dished out willy-nilly like last year, negatively impacting the future in the process. Even though I am assuming lessons were learned from that, there is still the risk of further hampering the future, depending on what he decides to do. I realize that back then he never figured on hiring a very capable coach for this season who has brought out the best in his players. He likely didn't figure on his returning players having statistic-leading numbers in various league categories that you currently see.

So, like you say ES, his deadline dealing is going to have to be a heck of a lot more creative than last season - satisfying the fan base while not putting the team deeper in the asset hole (*careful how you say that*). With so few assets, I would doubt we see anything done until the 11th hour - assuming that he chooses not to stand pat.

 

[ohloutsider]

Umm, this is another long one.

I’m also a very firm, “I don’t know which direction the Rangers should go” guy.

We have a few more weeks to see where we are, but I’m betting there’s no way MM looks at the current team and it’s standing, and sells. Though I’m not in favour, that’s why a Romano may be in play.

But,

Should we decide to sell, I have a direction in which I think we should go.

Should we decide to buy, I have a pretty good way to do so that we can afford, that makes us better, and addresses the future.


How I’d sell:

First, I can get behind buying but only with the future in mind. My hypothetical two parter (Lardis/Rehkopf) a while back is a very good example but realistically, very hard to pull off. I mean, you’d have to target the right 05 that makes us that much better. Then, he has to play on a team that isn’t contending this year but will go all in next year. And, for that team to want to do it, Rehkopf would have to be an upgrade on next year’s version of the player coming our way at the deadline. For example, Owen Sound may not want to get tied up in a deal like this if they feel Colby Barlow will be on par with Rehkopf next year. So I’m not holding my breath on such a deal happening, but you never know.

Second, IMO, there’s no way we move young quality assets for graduating, high end ‘04’s. Those types of moves would cripple our future. The only way I make Romano or Reid available is if the return addresses the future in a significant way.

Standing pat isn’t an option in my mind. It won’t improve the team and doesn’t address the future.

But if we sell at all, even a soft sell that weakens this year’s team in the least, then we may as well be all out sellers.

Other contenders in the west will get better. Saginaw is already in “all in” mode. London, Guelph, and the Soo should follow suit in some manner. Owen Sound could be starting a climb up the standings. All have deeper draft cupboards than the Rangers. Unless we are willing to move youth, we cannot go all in hard.

So, if we’re selling, we don’t have to decimate this year’s team. I’d only shop graduating assets that will give us the biggest bang for our buck.

What’s the point in moving a lesser OA or two (Motew and/or a health questionable Martin) for that 3rd and 5th that Lockhart went for? They would likely be more value to us finishing the season here helping develop our youth.

So if we are selling graduating players, who gives us the biggest bang for our buck?

The answer is Brzustewicz, Sop and Mesar. I’d 100% put these three on the block. I sell these guys hard and I listen to offers on Parsons and Schmidt if there are any.

Those are big pieces who’d bring massive return collectively. The remaining players still allows us to be pretty good this year, make the playoffs and be a tough out in the first round. I think I may keep Schmidt, especially if Parsons was moved. Having a strong D, even in a sell year, is important.

And more importantly, next year, in a down year, we’ll have a good group to move for futures in Rehkopf, Andonovski, Swick, Miseljevic, etc.

Brzustewicz either brings us Del Mastro return (‘23 1st rounder, plus a 2nd. Maybe more depending on the quality of the 1st rounder), or at worst, Kyrou return (good ‘06 player. 2x2nds. 3rd. 4th. 5th)

Sop brings us Xhekaj / Morrison return. Currently the league’s top OA scorer, on pace for 40 goals and 100+ points, stellar 200 foot player. PK. PP. The list goes on. When was the last time he took a game off? Exactly! He’d be in demand and surely an upgrade on any team’s OA forward.

Mesar would bring Faksa return at least. 2x2nds, plus a possible cast off import. He’s at almost two points per game since his return. This year’s version of Mesar is leaps and bounds ahead of last year’s version.

If there’s a contender out there who is questioning their current goaltending, Parsons would be their answer. I think Jacob Ingham return makes sense. (2nd. 3rd. 3rd. 4th*). We’d be fine I think with Malboeuf and whoever came the other way. But if we keep Parsons, I make Schmidt available. If we deal Parsons, Schmidt stays.

All those deals in, we’re in the ballpark of 7x2nds. 5x3rds. 3x4ths added to the cupboard.

As far as dealing Rehkopf this year (in an all out sell, not a two parter) vs keeping him. As MM said, it would have to be a “blow the doors off” offer. For me, that’s Owen Beck return absolute minimum, but likely more. If he were put on the block today, you could make an argument that he’d be the #1 forward available. But it would depend a ton on the 1st rounder coming back to us. For instance, if Saginaw is the trade partner, the picks have to be more since Young was a late 1st rounder. I’ve been suggesting Sudbury as a trade partner. But I’m not so sure about Caden Taylor. His not being invited to the U17 could be a red flag, Tanner Lam’s exclusion notwithstanding. Same goes for London and Henry B. London displayed that Henry was worth 2x2nds and a 3rd. For me, we can get the Beck picks plus the Henry B return for Rehkopf next year.

I just think if we can move the graduating players I mentioned above, we still ice a competitive team this year and have multiple chips to sell in a down year next year. Do all that, and by the start of 25-26, this team should be lights out.

So, if we did move the players above, our lineup post trade deadline (mix and match):

Swick.Rehkopf. Miseljevic
Martin. Mercer. Lam.
Ellinas. Morey. Romano.
Bottineau. Stark. Pug.

Andonovski. Schmidt.
Motew. Reid.
Campbell. Scott.

Malboeuf

There’d likely be a castoff goalie and a forward or two coming back. Maybe an import. If both Sop and Schmidt go, no doubt an OA comes back. Someone among those players could step into the second line center spot. These castoff players would likely be of the Cole Carter / Andrew Burns calibre from the Bracco deal. Decent OHLers who wouldn’t have gotten the minutes had they stayed with their team. There could also be a young player or two coming back as well. Work all of these into the above post deadline lineup and we’d still have a competitive team that would be a tough out in the post season. Maybe even win a round depending on where we’d be seeded.

Going into next year, we’d have some pretty good returning 04’s to pick from as OA’s.
Miseljevic.
Swick.
Pugliese.
Malboeuf.

Our lineup going into camp next year:

Swick. Rehkopf.Miseljevic
Ellinas. Romano. Lam.
Bottineau. Stark. Mercer.
Arquette. Morey. 16 yr old.
16 yr old.

Andonovski. Reid.
Campbell. Scott.
MacNiel. 16 yr old.
16 yr old.

Malboeuf.
Edwards.

We’d have four 16 year olds mixed in from the ‘24 draft. Plus I hang onto Pugliese so that when a higher calibre OA is moved, he slots in.



How I’d buy:

Now there are arguments to be made about buying. About moving one or both our 1st rounders.

But we fell in love with the 05 group as 16 year olds. That draft looked great. To be sure, Rehkopf and Andonovski are studs. But Mercer is regressing offensively. I thought he could be another Scott Timmins type player, and there’s still time, but thus far he’s way behind where I’d hoped he’d be. I thought Zidlicky would be a close to a point a game player by now. He showed great promise as a 16 year old but hasn’t improved offensively. He’s a third year player and this year, sits at 5pts to date. Dealing him for picks doesn’t look like such a bad deal for us now. No other player from that draft is in the league. It doesn’t help that we didn’t have a 2nd rounder that year either.

My point is that we fell in love with the 05 group and we’re getting a little burned by them. Now fast forward to today and we’re raving about this group. Rightfully so. But is it possible that a couple of these guys don’t live up to expectations?
All four look like very good to high end players. But it is possible there may be a Mike Davies or Grayson Ladd 1st rounder in that group? Decent OHLers but by no means high end?

Are we putting too much value on these guys? It’s possible that from the start of the season to the deadline, there may be a reason that MM may think it would be worth it to move one from one of our 1sts. Not because they are a bust, but because the outlook on them today may differ a little to the outlook on them at the draft. Maybe that could make it easier to include one of them in a trade.

This is all speculation by me. From my vantage point, I see nothing that would indicate that there is any reason to move on from any of the 07’s. I’m just thinking out loud, if you will, wondering if there may be any more reason for motivation by MM to decide to move an 07 at the deadline other than the obvious - pay a steep price to get some help in here to contend.


So, total hypothetical. Not married to the players I suggest coming in. Just an example of the type of moves we’d make to improve the team, while not upsetting the apple cart, and help the future.

In:
C-Ryan Abraham.
D-Noah Van Vliet.
LW-Sandis Vilmanis.

Out:
Luca Romano
Justin Bottineau
Roman Schmidt


What could Ryan Abraham bring as a 3rd line center? In his injury shortened season last year he was over a point a game on a deep team. I think he’d be rejuvenated coming to a contender. Perhaps get back to last year’s offensive pace? He brings more than offence as well. He’s not having a good year this year, but nobody is in Windsor. Change of scenery could put the former 1st rounder back on track. Shouldn’t be too expensive. Can be a bit of a shift disturber here and there but Jussi could steer that act in the right direction.

My thoughts on a deal: I’m valuing Romano at 2x2nds, 2x3rds, 4th. I base this comparable on the ballpark return of past defected 1st rounders who were drafted around the middle of the 1st round. Based on his season so far this year, I’m valuing Abraham at 2x3rds. The conditions on the 4th’27(Kit) are on Abraham playing an OA season.

To Kitchener:
04-C-Ryan Abraham
2nd’24(Nia)
2nd’26(Win)
4th’26(Ott)

To Windsor:
Luca Romano
4th’27(Kit)*

This improves our third line and gives us an option that could move up to the top six if need be. It helps the future with the picks that come with Abraham. That 2nd’(Nia) would be huge.


Then, Noah Van Vliet.

Big, solid, stay at home vet with experience on a winner. Would solidify the third pairing if we wanted to keep Reid and Campbell on opposite pairings. But good enough to play top four. Replaces Schmidt who’d be the odd OA out.

To Brantford:
Justin Bottineau

To Kitchener:
04-LD-Noah Van Vliet.

Player for player. Brantford gets minimum 2.5 years of Bottineau who, with better opportunity should start putting up better offence. Currently buried down our lineup being asked to play grind-line hockey.


Then, Sandis Vilmanis.

The Hamara deal should have set the price for pretty good import 04’s. Sarnia is rebuilding so I expect they’d be happy with the picks.

To Sarnia:
3rd’27(Kit)
4th’25(Ott)

To Kitchener:
04-LW-Sandis Vilmanis

Vilmanis, like Abraham, gives us quality on the 3rd line. Can also move up the lineup if need be.


Then, Roman Schmidt.

Lleyton Moore went for a 2nd, 3rd, 8th. All picks a couple years away. Could we get the same for Schmidt? I’m skeptical. Maybe if they were very distant. ‘27 draft?

To Missy:
Roman Schmidt.

To Kitchener:
2nd’27(Mis).
3rd’27(Mis).

Missy has an OA spot open and not wanting to burn a ton of their draft capitol, a cheaper add of an NHL drafted D would shore up the back end.


This is how we’d look after the deadline:


Swick. Rehkopf. Mesar.
Martin. Sop. Miseljevic.
Vilmanis. Abraham. Lam.
Ellinas. Mercer. Pugilese.
Stark. Morey.

Brzustewicz. Andonovski.
Motew. Reid.
Van Vliet. Campbell.
Scott.

Parsons
Malboeuf


Going into the ‘24 draft, we’d have:
1st
2nd(Nia)
2nd(Er)
3rd(OS)
4th

I think that’s right where we want to be going into the draft. That gives us a great chance at a very good ‘08 draft class.


I don’t know if we’d be good enough to go all the way. But I do know that we’d be better than we are now. We didn’t break what didn’t need to be fixed by inserting a top end guy into the top six causing someone to play out of position or down the lineup. For the most part, we kept the gang together.

And we were able to address the future somewhat via picks and still have healthy group of quality returnees who could be moved next year for significant return. I suspect getting that 2nd’24(Nia) along with the landslide next year that dealing Rehkopf would bring would ease the pain of moving Romano.


At the end of the day, I really don’t see us selling now. We are passing all the tests. Everyone is clicking. Another big test this weekend. 4 of 6 points would further solidify a no-sell stance.






Your not getting Abraham ( 2 years) , 2 prime 2nds for Romano. I guess you can dream if you wish but that will never happen.

 

[EvenSteven]

Your not getting Abraham ( 2 years) , 2 prime 2nds for Romano. I guess you can dream if you wish but that will never happen.

Out of curiosity then, what would your valuation of Abraham be?

Just wondering.

You’re not getting much value today out of him as a Spit. If you held onto him, would you expect Lockhart value for him as a OA next year?

 

[ohloutsider]

Out of curiosity then, what would your valuation of Abraham be?

Just wondering.

You’re not getting much value today out of him as a Spit. If you held onto him, would you expect Lockhart value for him as a OA next year?

Well I'm never good at this but I would think 1 - 2nd and maybe a 5th or 6th kinda deal. Next year if he doesn't move this year would be a 3rd and a 6th kinda thing.

 

[HockeyPops]

I don't think Even's valuation is that far off...

 

[EvenSteven]

Well I'm never good at this but I would think 1 - 2nd and maybe a 5th or 6th kinda deal. Next year if he doesn't move this year would be a 3rd and a 6th kinda thing.

I’ll never claim to be really good at this sort of thing either. I just try to make my valuations via comparables. That’s pretty much what scouts do when they are evaluating players.

But, if you suggest we send you a 2nd and 5th for Abraham this year, and we get to hold onto Romano, Ranger fans may like that deal better than my suggestion since the popular opinion on the Ranger board is to not move quality youth.

Off the top of my head, I had Abraham valued at 2x3rds. Especially when you consider an ‘07 1st is part of the deal.

2x3rds isn’t a whole lot different than a 2nd and 5th depending on the years those picks fall on.

 

[rangersblues]

I’ll never claim to be really good at this sort of thing either. I just try to make my valuations via comparables. That’s pretty much what scouts do when they are evaluating players.

But, if you suggest we send you a 2nd and 5th for Abraham this year, and we get to hold onto Romano, Ranger fans may like that deal better than my suggestion since the popular opinion on the Ranger board is to not move quality youth.

Off the top of my head, I had Abraham valued at 2x3rds. Especially when you consider an ‘07 1st is part of the deal.

2x3rds isn’t a whole lot different than a 2nd and 5th depending on the years those picks fall on.

Not only do fans on the Rangers board not like moving quality first round picks, that seems to also be the consensus among OHL GMs. Very rare deals.