Value of: Kirby Dach

[GirardSpinorama]

Newhook and Dach were suppose to help speed up Montreal's rebuild. Its failed but I can see the rational behind it.

 

[Crow]

there's 0 incentive for Montreal. none.
feel the bern!


have you ever had reconstructive knee surgery?
takes a while for a recovery - both physical and psychological..
but lets carry on with all the sanctimonious, troll takes
and shitty trade offers from the usual cast of characters

Troll takes on both sides, really. Rampant homerism abound.

I agree with you. I would wait until after next year to assume he isn’t a useful player. Tearing two ligaments will take a long time to bounce back from.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

On average only the pick #13 generally nets you an actually impactful NHL player. Dach and Newhook were young, had high draft pedigree and were kinda proven at the time of those trades. I would do both of those deals again any day. Right now they both look like whiffs but the same thing often happens with draft picks too, you are rarely getting anything certain in that pick range and at least Dach and Newhook have already shown promise at the NHL level.

Make senses to do "similar" deals if the opportunity come up. But you're lying to yourself if you want to pay the same price today for players who has less value than before.

 

[Hostile Offer]

Make senses to do "similar" deals if the opportunity come up. But you're lying to yourself if you want to pay the same price today for players who has less value than before.

Duh I don't think they're worth it now but if I had the opportunity to re-do the trades knowing what we knew back then I'd do it again. It might not have worked out this time around but it's a smart way of doing business IMO.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

OP wanted suckers to take Dach top $/overvalued
then everybody weighed in he is not worth that
MON doing this gets all his cap off end of season, no multi yr of Dach

as to the bold there is signif risk Dach lives up to that billing
ny has no reason to take that risk at all, to do so at all, must have upside

His cap hit isn’t so high that it’s not worth holding on to him and hoping he takes another step forward. Your proposal does absolutely nothing for Montreal and is a win/win for NY whether he hits that next level or not. I realize you want to win the trade for your team, but to have other fans agree, you’ve gotta throw them a bone of some sort.

 

[Kegs]

Maybe a second. But probably closer to a third.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He's got great potential and hasn't been healthy enough to show it. Love his game when he's healthy but unfortunately this season he just hasn't played well at all. Far below what I thought he'd be.

If I were an opposing team I'd look to buy low on him. He could be a terrific addition. That being said, It would be a mistake for Montreal to trade him while his value is so low.

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Inb4 HE ONLY DOES LACROSSE GOALS AND DOESNT PLAY DEFENSE! YOU CANT WIN WITH HIM!

Not even worth the argument.... canadian fans debate if theyd trade newhook for zegras lol

I just don’t understand how he gets so much hate yet always turns up in trade offers explaining why he sucks yet they’re willing to “risk” taking him on as a reclamation project. Funny how he still generates so much interest.

 

[Peasy]

On average only the pick #13 generally nets you an actually impactful NHL player. Dach and Newhook were young, had high draft pedigree and were kinda proven at the time of those trades. I would do both of those deals again any day. Right now they both look like whiffs but the same thing often happens with draft picks too, you are rarely getting anything certain in that pick range and at least Dach and Newhook have already shown promise at the NHL level.

Theres a reason why the teams that drafted them were looking to ship them out early...

 

[Crazy8oooo]

On average only the pick #13 generally nets you an actually impactful NHL player. Dach and Newhook were young, had high draft pedigree and were kinda proven at the time of those trades. I would do both of those deals again any day. Right now they both look like whiffs but the same thing often happens with draft picks too, you are rarely getting anything certain in that pick range and at least Dach and Newhook have already shown promise at the NHL level.

I think they had both struggled, at that point, to live up to early expectations but absolutely agree that they were trades worth making. They had hype and were young with potentially high upside. Those are the type of trades that can turn your team around if they work out.

 

[Reddwit]

How is he -20 through 24 games?!? I don’t put a ton of stock in +/- unless it’s egregious and that’s pretty egregious. The 2nd worst player in +/- on the Habs is a rookie offensive defenseman sporting a -11. Is he that bad defensively?

 

[Crazy8oooo]

Theres a reason why the teams that drafted them were looking to ship them out early...

I’m curious about this. Was it really that simple?

Colorado needed a center who could produce right away. They tried using Newhook for that but it was obvious he wasn’t ready and needed more time to develop.

Chicago wanted to tank for Bedard so they went into sell mode.

Did those teams really not see them developing into good players or could the above points have played a role into why they were moved?

 

[Topcheese31]

I’m curious about this. Was it really that simple?

Colorado needed a center who could produce right away. They tried using Newhook for that but it was obvious he wasn’t ready and needed more time to develop.

Chicago wanted to tank for Bedard so they went into sell mode.

Did those teams really not see them developing into good players or could the above points have played a role into why they were moved?

Even if you want to tank for a player, you don't trade a 20 years old center if you think he will become a top 6 players.

Same logic with COL. If they believed in him, they woyuld have take the time to developpe the player in a bottom 6 role or in the AHL, not trade if for a late first pick and a second pick.

 

[BHawk21]

have you ever had reconstructive knee surgery?
takes a while for a recovery - both physical and psychological..
but lets carry on with all the sanctimonious, troll takes
and shitty trade offers from the usual cast of characters

his knee has nothing to do with what I said. Montreal fans were mad that Chicago fans were still happy with the trade after his 15-20 game heater in 2022. They wanted to claim victory on it but there's so much of these guys career to go.

Now it has swung the other way. Nazar is tearing up the AHL after coming back from his major injury 2 years ago and Dach is struggling.

My comment was about Hab fans not Dach.

 

[HFpapi]

I don't think it's a good idea to trade Dach right now. Is value is pretty low and come back from a big injury last year. Habs doesn't have a cap issue right now.

I would keep him and hope he finds is game.

Exactly.

Selling super low on a guy who still theoretically has lots of potential makes no sense. Nothing they return for Dach atm will be worth more than just seeing if he finds his game.

We only have to look towards another 3rd overall pick in Dylan Strome as a guy who took a while to get it together but is now making the teams who gave up on him look stupid.

 

[Volica]

I thought Chicago was insane for moving this guy so early on. Big guys normally take a bit of extra time and this guy was rushed into the NHL on some bottom feeder squads. That said, pretty clear they saw something they didn't like with the guy and it has reared its head in Montreal.

From a Calgary perspective, it seems like he's the type of guy Conroy is targeting, especially on a buy-low candidate.
I'd do Jakob Pelletier straight up here for a change-of-scenery type trade for both clubs.

 

[Peasy]

I’m curious about this. Was it really that simple?

Colorado needed a center who could produce right away. They tried using Newhook for that but it was obvious he wasn’t ready and needed more time to develop.

Chicago wanted to tank for Bedard so they went into sell mode.

Did those teams really not see them developing into good players or could the above points have played a role into why they were moved?

Dach was going to prevent Chicago from tanking lol?

He showed one little decent showing in the playoff bubble and that was it.

Would be very strange to give up like a 21 year old 6'3 center that you just drafted recently 3rd overall just to help "tank". Why would you not keep him if you think he can develop into a solid top 6 C. Its not like you will have a chance to draft one every draft and you just literally spend a 3rd overall pick on him.

From my recollection, more often then not the team getting the player being shipped out does not work out. Only recent example I can think of where it worked was Bennett.

 

[HuGo Sham]

his knee has nothing to do with what I said. Montreal fans were mad that Chicago fans were still happy with the trade after his 15-20 game heater in 2022. They wanted to claim victory on it but there's so much of these guys career to go.

Now it has swung the other way. Nazar is tearing up the AHL after coming back from his major injury 2 years ago and Dach is struggling.

My comment was about Hab fans not Dach.

let the generalizations begin

Troll takes on both sides, really. Rampant homerism abound.

I agree with you. I would wait until after next year to assume he isn’t a useful player. Tearing two ligaments will take a long time to bounce back from.

agreed

 

[BHawk21]

let the generalizations begin

oh a different reason to be upset

 

[bernmeister]

In case you missed it (or you likely ignored it because it doesn't match your MO) Dach's contract isn't an issue. Montreal isn't competing this year and have a tonne of money coming off the books at the end of the season.

So why would Montreal sell low for cap space again? Oh right, they're not...

THIS is what OP said verbatim, only bolded for emphasis:

Wondering what team would offer a 1st for him?
Habs could use this opportunity to clear unwanted cap space and look for a 2C in the offseason.
Not looking for salary past this year and this would need to be a pure trade for picks?

Does any team want this guy?

so @malcb33 want to admit you are wrong and apologize?

 

[bernmeister]

His cap hit isn’t so high that it’s not worth holding on to him and hoping he takes another step forward. Your proposal does absolutely nothing for Montreal and is a win/win for NY whether he hits that next level or not. I realize you want to win the trade for your team, but to have other fans agree, you’ve gotta throw them a bone of some sort.

no other team has an obligation to any other team to accommodate, which is why everything is about sufficient profit to be worthwhile

As to "his cap hit isn’t so high that it’s not worth holding on to him" is your opinion, and you are entitled to that, but it is a subjective opinion

Again, OP wanted someone to pay AND take risk on Dach based on name cache,
But as is evident from great majority of posts here
HE IS NOT THAT SPECIAL AND NOT WORTH IT ON THOSE TERMS/THAT BASIS

The bone is I am giving expiring contracts for additional yr or so similar money on a guy who is no guarantee to deliver
AND
I am offering upside IF he does

I will not pay to take risk he does not

those are my terms, take it or leave it on this one, doubt there is a good offer on terms OP seeks

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I’m curious about this. Was it really that simple?

Colorado needed a center who could produce right away. They tried using Newhook for that but it was obvious he wasn’t ready and needed more time to develop.

Chicago wanted to tank for Bedard so they went into sell mode.

Did those teams really not see them developing into good players or could the above points have played a role into why they were moved?

Dach was awful. That's why the Hawks moved him.

 

[crowi]

Oh boy, 1st for Dach. Good luck on that. He isn't paid that much (thankfully to MTL) 3.4M is no chump change either. Dach isn't going to be in the league when that contract expires.

 

[StreetHawk]

Newhook and Dach were suppose to help speed up Montreal's rebuild. Its failed but I can see the rational behind it.

Dach, I understood way more than Newhook. Montreal basically swapped the first from Romanov trade for Dach. Newhook, when you have Slaf, Suzuki, Dach, Caulfield, with other prospects coming up didn't make as much sense.

Dach also brought a size factor which Montreal lacked. Newhook doesn't.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Duh I don't think they're worth it now but if I had the opportunity to re-do the trades knowing what we knew back then I'd do it again. It might not have worked out this time around but it's a smart way of doing business IMO.

Its a win-win trade from the onset. Chicago and Colorado were also smart in doing business from their perspective but with equal risk from both sides.