Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal

[The Great Weal]

I'm fine with Romanov for Dach. Even if Dach tops out as a 3C, I'll take a big body 3C over a defensive #4 dman. The issue is Nazar was someone with so much upside that could make us look silly.

 

[SOLR]

Dach #3 overall 2019 after 3 seasons ages 18-20
GP 152
G 19
A 40
P 59 0.39 ppg
Acquired for a #38 (Romanov), #66, #98

Kotkaniemi #3 overall 2018 after 3 seasons ages 18-20
GP 171
G 22
A 40
P 62 0.36 ppg
Given up for #27 (Carolina), #92

The fundamentals of these two are vastly different. Kirby can skate, KK will never skate. Just don't expect Dach to be physical. He's likely to be a RW for us after next year's draft...

 

[admiralcadillac]

Lekkerimaki for one. Granted he's a winger and smaller but his raw talent is great

But we needed a center

...he has not regressed, he was put in a situation he shouldn't have been in...the wrist surgery and losing most of last year hurt his development this season of course, but he was plugged right in against Top Pairing D that he shouldn't have been facing on a team that was dreadful, like US dreadful, this season...he is not a run-and-gun offensive dynamo (like he was placed in by the Hawks), he's a smart big-bodied 200-ft player with good wheels for such a big body and he did look to pass faaar too much when playing with Kane/DeBrincat, two rush scorers (again, not Dach's game)...in Montreal, he can play at his pace in the Middle Six and gain some confidence while growing at a more defined pace...yes, he needs to put on some muscle, although the kid is damn strong on the puck now, but I am excited to see him in the Bleu, Blanc, et Rouge; I've been a big fan of his game for some time and I think this was a very good move going forward for us...time will tell, but this was the one move today that I'm really big on (I too had Wright #1 OA and am not completely sold on Slafkovsky but I trust HuGo so far)...

He played 70 games last year - how did he lose most of it?

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm fine with Romanov for Dach. Even if Dach tops out as a 3C, I'll take a big body 3C over a defensive #4 dman. The issue is Nazar was someone with so much upside that could make us look silly.

I had Lekkerimäki at the top of my list there, I thought maybe going into next year if we get a center like Carlsson having a line of Slaf, Carlsson, Lekkerimäki could be good enough to make Suzuki+Caufield a second line.

 

[SOLR]

I'm fine with Romanov for Dach. Even if Dach tops out as a 3C, I'll take a big body 3C over a defensive #4 dman. The issue is Nazar was someone with so much upside that could make us look silly.

If Dach can finally get past the injuries he will easily be better than Nazar. It's a risk, a calculated one. It doesn't cripple us if it fails - we win big if Dach just reaches his floor 50 pts 2C. Dach has 80 pts upside in him.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

But we needed a center



He played 70 games last year - how did he lose most of it?

...2020-21...sorry, should have clarified...I consider this season just over...

 

[NotProkofievian]

If Dach can finally get past the injuries he will easily be better than Nazar. It's a risk, a calculated one. It doesn't cripple us if it fails - we win big if Dach just reaches his floor 50 pts 2C. Dach has 80 pts upside in him.

This. Some people are wondering why Dach was drafted 3rd with his production in the WHL, and the answer is his toolkit. He has very high end skills. It's just a matter of putting it all together.

 

[The Great Weal]

If Dach can finally get past the injuries he will easily be better than Nazar. It's a risk, a calculated one. It doesn't cripple us if it fails - we win big if Dach just reaches his floor 50 pts 2C. Dach has 80 pts upside in him.

Wrist injuries are a bitch, they can seriously hinder a player's upside. Dach was playing 18 minutes a game with Kane and Debrincat and didn't produce. Only thing I'm looking forward to is to see what MSL can do because Colliton was significantly worse than Ducharme even though he only lasted 12 games.

 

[Belial]

Why did Chicago jettison a 24-year-old 40-goalscorer?
Why did Chicago give up so much (pick 6, 12, Boqvist) for Seth Jones after having missed the playoffs?

Chicago thought they can still be contenders when they went after Jones and then realized they need to rebuild.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Dach is no more of a gamble than Wright. They're both in the same ballpark of uncertainty/payoff. So you take Slafkovsky and you get "Wright" (Dach) too. Beautiful move by HuGo.

People pissed that we didn't get Wright don't realize we did. Dach = Wright. It's the same f***ing bet.

Romanov was a nice player but he was replaceable within the next two years.

 

[SOLR]

Wrist injuries are a bitch, they can seriously hinder a player's upside. Dach was playing 18 minutes a game with Kane and Debrincat and didn't produce. Only thing I'm looking forward to is to see what MSL can do because Colliton was significantly worse than Ducharme even though he only lasted 12 games.

They are, but he's 21 - its a bit of a mitigating factor.

 

[SirClintonPortis]

Romanov has no offense despite reaching his maturation age. Dach still has a couple years to reach potential.

 

[Prairie Habs]

Dach #3 overall 2019 after 3 seasons ages 18-20
GP 152
G 19
A 40
P 59 0.39 ppg
Acquired for a #38 (Romanov), #66, #98

Kotkaniemi #3 overall 2018 after 3 seasons ages 18-20
GP 171
G 22
A 40
P 62 0.36 ppg
Given up for #27 (Carolina), #92

The reason we didn't match KK's offersheet wasn't that he was an absolute bust, it was the cap hit. If we had signed him to a reasonable bridge deal everyone would have been happy to keep him and continue trying to develop him. Assuming we can get Dach to sign a reasonable deal why wouldn't we be happy to try and get him to reach his potential?

Your post also doesn't contradict my point that Dach is much cheaper now than he was a year or two ago, which is why we were able to afford him (and why he was available).

 

[Team_Spirit]

Hawks fan here. Dach is an enigma. The skill is undoubtedly there. Surprisingly good skater. One can make the argument he was rushed, then broke his wrist, and that he’s still so young and a victim of circumstances. On the flip side, he has a terrible shot, really doesn’t use his big body to his advantage, and doesn’t show much inclination to, which gets really frustrating. Also leaves himself way too vulnerable, taking colossal hits. Derek King in not so many words questioned Dach’s heart. Also terrible at faceoffs. A number of Chicago fans had given up on him. Others, like myself, weren’t quite there, but it’s put up or shut up time.

Seems like a nice kid, and I hope he works out well for you. Will be interesting.

God Christ are you kidding me.

 

[Belial]

Wrist injuries are a bitch, they can seriously hinder a player's upside. Dach was playing 18 minutes a game with Kane and Debrincat and didn't produce. Only thing I'm looking forward to is to see what MSL can do because Colliton was significantly worse than Ducharme even though he only lasted 12 games.

He played a good chunk of minutes with Kane and Cat but it was not the entire season.

His 5on5 minutes go like this:

Cat 342:55
Kurashev 270:48
Kane 264:46
Hagel 241:34
Kubalik 238:45
Lafferty 151:07
Entwistle 118:04

 

[The Great Weal]

He played a good chunk of minutes with Kane and Cat but it was not the entire season.

His 5on5 minutes go like this:

Cat 342:55
Kurashev 270:48
Kane 264:46
Hagel 241:34
Kubalik 238:45
Lafferty 151:07
Entwistle 118:04

You'd still like to see way more production. Wish we had done 26+33 like how the Yotes did for a top 15 pick and used that on Dach and drafted Nazar first. Anyways I'm very curious to see how he does and I pray that the wrist injury doesn't affect him. Let's see if we get Getzlaf+Rantanen with Dach+Slaf or if we get Lowry+Armia lol.

 

[River Meadow]

I'm fine with Romanov for Dach. Even if Dach tops out as a 3C, I'll take a big body 3C over a defensive #4 dman. The issue is Nazar was someone with so much upside that could make us look silly.

Fair point.

We didn't know though.

They wanted Dach.

God Christ are you kidding me.

Gotta hope MSL can work his magic.

If anyone can, it's him.

Our young core may also reignite him too, as well as playing in Montreal.

 

[Belial]

You'd still like to see way more production. Wish we had done 26+33 like how the Yotes did for a top 15 pick and used that on Dach and drafted Nazar first. Anyways I'm very curious to see how he does and I pray that the wrist injury doesn't affect him. Let's see if we get Getzlaf+Rantanen with Dach+Slaf or if we get Lowry+Armia lol.

His usage was a lot more balanced in comparison to Kane and Debrincat.

Kane had only 36 defensive zone starts the entire season lol vs 232 in the offensive zone.

Dach was 131 offensive vs 102 defensive.

I'm pretty sure the Habs brass has access to even more advanced metrics that convinced them that there's something there to work with.

 

[HabsCowboysOwn]

Hawks fan here. Dach is an enigma. The skill is undoubtedly there. Surprisingly good skater. One can make the argument he was rushed, then broke his wrist, and that he’s still so young and a victim of circumstances. On the flip side, he has a terrible shot, really doesn’t use his big body to his advantage, and doesn’t show much inclination to, which gets really frustrating. Also leaves himself way too vulnerable, taking colossal hits. Derek King in not so many words questioned Dach’s heart. Also terrible at faceoffs. A number of Chicago fans had given up on him. Others, like myself, weren’t quite there, but it’s put up or shut up time.

Seems like a nice kid, and I hope he works out well for you. Will be interesting.

Well, that's encouraging...

Thanks for the heads up, hopefully he drastically improves in the next few years because the last thing we need is a soft enigmatic 3rd line C with no shot.

 

[Gravity]

KK 2.0. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[BaseballCoach]

The fundamentals of these two are vastly different. Kirby can skate, KK will never skate. Just don't expect Dach to be physical. He's likely to be a RW for us after next year's draft...

I'm fine with Romanov for Dach. Even if Dach tops out as a 3C, I'll take a big body 3C over a defensive #4 dman. The issue is Nazar was someone with so much upside that could make us look silly.

Hughes did tell us a couple of months ago that they do not necessarily want to have all their assets in the form of 2022 and 2023 draftees, but also wanted younger guys with NHYL experience.

Dach fills that bill, but so did Romanov. I do agree that Dach has the bigger upside of the two.

I also agree that Dach is a better bet than KK was a year ago, and we paid a bit less than we lost KK for.

GMing in the cap world of the NHL is all about asset management and player evaluation. I think the asset management is well done. But did they bet on the right horse? There is a fair chance they did, but this is where time will tell the tale.

 

[The Great Weal]

KK 2.0. Hope I'm wrong.

I don't know man Dach has shown way more offensive skill than KK and is a significantly better skater. I'm still not crazy optimistic, but as of now I'd say he's better than KK.

 

[Gravity]

I don't know man Dach has shown way more offensive skill than KK and is a significantly better skater. I'm still not crazy optimistic, but as of now I'd say he's better than KK.

Both had great rookie years and regressed afterwards due to injury. Dach is better playmaker but KK has the better shot. It's much closer than you think.

 

[River Meadow]

They are, but he's 21 - its a bit of a mitigating factor.

I agree but can you expand on that?

The younger you are, generally, the more you can recover and bounce back from injuries.

Is this along the lines of thought you're thinking?

 

[The Great Weal]

Both had great rookie years and regressed afterwards due to injury. Dach is better playmaker but KK has the better shot. It's much closer than you think.

KK can never get his shot off on time but yes Dach's shot is a flaw. Athleticism alone Dach is much better which is what's holding KK back so much.