Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Lafleurs Guy]

He has all year to show progress. He will even have all of next year to show progress. There's no ticking time bomb here. Dach playing well or not well isn't going to change their desire to look for a top 6 center in the draft, trade market or UFA.



I think that it's taking longer than we expected for him to get back into form but that there is nothing to be rewarded here except patience. There isn't a center on the market that we aren't pursuing because of waiting on Dach.

They were not going to select Nazar, they would have never traded for that pick if Dach wasn't available and I fail to see how they would consider Nazar anyways because he's another small-ish forward that they aren't interested in adding into their mix up front.

Nazar is meaningless to me, he doesn't factor in at all.

The trade was Romanov anyway.

 

[ReHabs]

I fail to see how they would consider Nazar anyways because he's another small-ish forward that they aren't interested in adding into their mix up front.

Hughes wouldn't consider drafting another small-ish forward that they aren't interested in adding into their mix up front, that's why Hughes didn't draft Filip Mesar with the Habs' other first round pick in 2022.

 

[WeThreeKings]

The trade was Romanov anyway.

Yes, they used Romanov to get the pick. If Dach isn't available they don't trade Romanov for the pick. Nazar picked by the Habs is not a scenario that exists.

They just have Romanov today instead or move him in another move but who knows what that would be.

 

[tinyzombies]

I still like the player. We are planning for 2-3 years out so he needs to get his bearings and start improving over that time, that’s all. Lots of young talent coming.

We have to remember last year he shot up in weight to 217 for the first time and had to learn to deal with that, then the injury - another freak long term injury- so there’s yet another mental adjustment. That doesn’t mean you give up on the player. Habs almost did that with Rocket- he would have been a Ranger and we would have won zero Cups and had no tradition. It was that close- Gorman was shopping him. Not saying he’s Rocket but you don’t give up on talent because of injuries - you continue to develop

 

[Toene]

The trade was Romanov anyway.

I'd rather have Romanov, but I prefer that they try to find creative ways to fulfill needs so it's ok.

 

[Goalfield13]

You have just told me, you don't follow the team closely. If you did, you wouldn't have said that.

Hey, no big deal, let's agree to disagree.

I guess I don't follow it as closely as you. You clearly hide in the locker room washroom to know all of this. Either that, or you are so naive to believe everything players say to the media.

 

[Theodore450]

Kirby Dach will have a worse career than Joel armia

 

[Habby4Life]

Kirby Dach will have a worse career than Joel armia

Guy has all the tools but something is missing. Regarding his injury, ok, it’s a tough one but his injury should not impact desire. Ok, struggle scoring, but work hard without the puck.

 

[Tyson]

Guy has all the tools but something is missing. Regarding his injury, ok, it’s a tough one but his injury should not impact desire. Ok, struggle scoring, but work hard without the puck.

I will ask it again....why would a team that decides to go full rebuild give up on a 21 year old 6'4 RH center that was drafted 3rd overall? That should have been a red flag visible from outer space.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I will ask it again....why would a team that decides to go full rebuild give up on a 21 year old 6'4 RH center that was drafted 3rd overall? That should have been a red flag visible from outer space.

It's been answered a thousand times over.

 

[Tyson]

It's been answered a thousand times over.

That's not a red flag?

 

[Kosseca]

Kirby Dach will have a worse career than Joel armia

holy batman.... You Sir (Mam?) do not need an exercice regime as you are :

1) jumping to conclusions 2) flying off the handle 3) carrying things too far​

 

[WeThreeKings]

That's not a red flag?

No, it's not a red flag that they decided they wanted to rip everything out of their roster with a completely new management group and attempt to get Bedard in the draft the following year.

Them trading Debrincat wasn't a red flag either. They got the price they wanted to move those guys and went all in on their rebuild plan.

If Montreal decided to do the same thing, it wouldn't have been a red flag on Caufield or Suzuki, it would have been the execution of their plan.

 

[Catanddogguitarrr]

Evans is a very good checking Center, that's be proven for the past couple of years.

You say he'll take the spot of a young Center, so who currently in our pool of players is going to take his ideal spot, which is #4C? Beck looks to be #3C. Hage is too offensively gifted to be put into that role and he's still 2 years away at minimum. I'm just curious who you have in mind.

If Jake goes to management and asks for the moon, you move him. If he's not being super greedy, I think he's someone who could be kept around.

Evans does a decent job but I want the best possible. Beck will come as soon as next year I think. He's learning a lot and is doing fine in Laval. I'm not against signing Evans cheap and not long term. I don't mind 3 years/3M. I question if Evans will regress because he's not built like a strong man. He looks fine now but what about when he'll turn 30? Remember when Bergevin signed Armia and most posters here were happy about it. For the forth line I would like Tuch, Xhekaj and Olivier. Toughness. And I would like Hughes trade or sign a legit #2 C, because Dach is not doing well and doesn't seem to improve.

I like how Hage is playing but I think when he will be ready it's gonna take too much time. The window when every piece will be ready is getting far. I mean, Suzuki will be 28 or 29. This rebuilt is taking time and time. I hope next october will be an important step forward.

 

[Tyson]

No, it's not a red flag that they decided they wanted to rip everything out of their roster with a completely new management group and attempt to get Bedard in the draft the following year.

Them trading Debrincat wasn't a red flag either. They got the price they wanted to move those guys and went all in on their rebuild plan.

If Montreal decided to do the same thing, it wouldn't have been a red flag on Caufield or Suzuki, it would have been the execution of their plan.

All good points but I am not sold on Dach and it's looking more and more like a really bad trade. As a Habs fan I truly hope I am wrong but I don't think that I am.

 

[Kosseca]

That's not a red flag?

Where there red flags before Flo traded for Reinhart and Bennett...yeah there was. They took a calculated risk that paided off.

KH as taken the same approch... take under developpement young players in Dach, Newhook and Barron and hope they can reach another level. People need to stop saying that the Dach experiment is a failure, first it,s too early (thank you injury for the lost year) and second the delta between what was given in the trade and what we got was positive (and could favor MTL long term).

People need to accept that Dach is an unknow value now in the rebuild. He can be anything between a 1C to a healthy scratch. The odds are that he'll settle somewhere as a middle 6 players. Only time will tell. Can re-letigate the pass, the deal is done and it wasn't a bad deal.

Focus should be on how to address current needs.

 

[WeThreeKings]

All good points but I am not sold on Dach and it's looking more and more like a really bad trade. As a Habs fan I truly hope I am wrong but I don't think that I am.

It's looking like a trade that might have a bad outcome rather than it looking like a bad trade.

The injury is the issue here, everything prior to that injury was very encouraging and downright steal-like.

We have the ability to be patient here with the player, so let's be patient. There isn't a magical fix that is out there and if there was, Dach performing or not performing would not change their appetite in pursuing that option.

 

[Theodore450]

holy batman.... You Sir (Mam?) do not need an exercice regime as you are :

1) jumping to conclusions 2) flying off the handle 3) carrying things too far​

Go compare their careers. Armia can actually defend

 

[Kosseca]

Go compare their careers. Armia can actually defend

More exercice for you:

1) jumping to conclusions​

 

[Theodore450]

Where there red flags before Flo traded for Reinhart and Bennett...yeah there was. They took a calculated risk that paided off.

KH as taken the same approch... take under developpement young players in Dach, Newhook and Barron and hope they can reach another level. People need to stop saying that the Dach experiment is a failure, first it,s too early (thank you injury for the lost year) and second the delta between what was given in the trade and what we got was positive (and could favor MTL long term).

People need to accept that Dach is an unknow value now in the rebuild. He can be anything between a 1C to a healthy scratch. The odds are that he'll settle somewhere as a middle 6 players. Only time will tell. Can re-letigate the pass, the deal is done and it wasn't a bad deal.

Focus should be on how to address current needs.

Don’t compare reinhart and Bennett with Dach .
Those are actual nhl players that could compete. Bennett was even a menace in the playoffs. Reinhart was in his prime and was easily a 1st line player.
A rebuilding team giving up on a top prospect that’s only 2-3 years in and under 21 is a huge red flag.

There’s no way around that

 

[Toene]

My deception vs my expectations of Dach this year is immense, but I'm still a believer. The main thing I observe is that his execution is off and he's kinda slow. This year is already ''over'', in the sense that we won't make the playoffs or even get close. So there's nothing to lose waiting for him to figure it out.
What I would change is that I would put him on a bottom-line and let him simmer there. He's hurting the top-6. Trade for a stop gap offensive middle 6 C and to help Laine and Newhook.

This summer, he needs to do some power-skating with his healed knee and work his execution. The number of bad plays he makes is concerning. He also gets cornered by checkers and can't separate himself from them with his skating so he's forced to precipitate his passes and they lack accuracy.

 

[Theodore450]

More exercice for you:

1) jumping to conclusions​

I think jumping to conclusions would be constantly assuming the reason this guy is no good is because of an injury that happened more that a year ago.


Can’t make any comparisons, all we do is jump to conclusions .


Not like armia wasn’t a top pick. Traded to a team where he developed into a quality 3rd liner. No Dach is special and so good

 

[Tyson]

It's looking like a trade that might have a bad outcome rather than it looking like a bad trade.

The injury is the issue here, everything prior to that injury was very encouraging and downright steal-like.

We have the ability to be patient here with the player, so let's be patient. There isn't a magical fix that is out there and if there was, Dach performing or not performing would not change their appetite in pursuing that option.

I feel bad for him...his confidence has to be as bad as it can get. The year he scored 38 in 58 he showed flashes of dominance, I hope he gets it back.

 

[Sorinth]

My deception vs my expectations of Dach this year is immense, but I'm still a believer. The main thing I observe is that his execution is off and he's kinda slow. This year is already ''over'', in the sense that we won't make the playoffs or even get close. So there's nothing to lose waiting for him to figure it out.
What I would change is that I would put him on a bottom-line and let him simmer there. He's hurting the top-6. Trade for a stop gap offensive middle 6 C and to help Laine and Newhook.

This summer, he needs to do some power-skating with his healed knee and work his execution. The number of bad plays he makes is concerning. He also gets cornered by checkers and can't separate himself from them with his skating so he's forced to precipitate his passes and they lack accuracy.

I find his "slowness" is more hesitation then actual speed. He knows very well he's making lots of costly mistakes, which causes him to take an extra half second before deciding whether to commit and actually go, which ironically causes costly mistakes.

It's a cycle with no easy answers, you can just continue to play him and try to help his confidence as much as you can, or you can drop him down the lineup which will hurt his confidence but hopefully get him to play a "simpler" game where you don't have to think as much and thereby get back to playing on instinct. I wouldn't mind seeing him with Gallagher and Anderson in the hopes that he kind of follows their lead and plays that straight line kind of game.

 

[WeThreeKings]

I find his "slowness" is more hesitation then actual speed. He knows very well he's making lots of costly mistakes, which causes him to take an extra half second before deciding whether to commit and actually go, which ironically causes costly mistakes.

It's a cycle with no easy answers, you can just continue to play him and try to help his confidence as much as you can, or you can drop him down the lineup which will hurt his confidence but hopefully get him to play a "simpler" game where you don't have to think as much and thereby get back to playing on instinct. I wouldn't mind seeing him with Gallagher and Anderson in the hopes that he kind of follows their lead and plays that straight line kind of game.

I think they should probably just pull him from a game or two just let him reset and look at the game from a different angle.

Then I'd just ride him hard in the 2C role for the rest of the year with Heineman and Laine on his wings.