Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[DAChampion]

The cool thing is that we have Dach and Suzuki. So who one person thinks is better is irrelevant. We don't have to make a choice.

And I can't believe I saw someone lamenting having two 70 pt centers. We've barely ever had 1. If we had 2, if the rest of the team is filled out correctly that's a cup contender.

The Habs have not had two 70-pount centers in the 21st century.

Koivu and Plekanec both had 70-point ceilings, but they reached them at different times. Looking back, the team would have been quite strong if their ceilings had been concurrent.

Aside from that, Gomez got to 58 points but only once, Desharnais got to 60 points but it was a disaster as it required the entire team to be structured around his needs, and Domi had a fluke 72 point campaign.

 

[26Mats]

I'm not against the idea that Dach might turn out better, but it would need more support than the 15 most recent games, especially since Suzuki has been quite bad for reasons unknown ... Undisclosed injury?

It's one thing to be the best player in the ice in meaningless games with no pressure. It's another in big games that actually mean something, with tons of pressure. Suzuki has already shown in the NHL, plus Junior, that he elevates his game in high pressure situations.

Dach has a lot of road to go through to show he's Suzuki level, let alone better.

At any rate you really need two really good centers to contend. Let's hope Dach and Suzuki are them. And let's hope it's only the media talking about who's better. We need both to win, not for them to be in some kind of meaningless competition with each other.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's one thing to be the best player in the ice in meaningless games with no pressure. It's another in big games that actually mean something, with tons of pressure. Suzuki has already shown in the NHL, plus Junior, that he elevates his game in high pressure situations.

Dach has a lot of road to go through to show he's Suzuki level, let alone better.

At any rate you really need two really good centers to contend. Let's hope Dach and Suzuki are them. And let's hope it's only the media talking about who's better. We need both to win, not for them to be in some kind of meaningless competition with each other.

It's such a stupid battle to yell about who is better when we have them both.

This isn't like the Desharnais vs. Galchenyuk debate when a higher upside, young player drafted to be our 1C was consistently not given a chance to play there.

Suzuki and Dach are both given top 6 minutes and neither are being blocked by a worse player.

 

[Andy]

What's promising about Dach is that it's a good 10-15 games now where he's getting scoring chances and setting up scoring chances multiple times a game. That bodes really well for his future as a top 6 centreman.

 

[Tyrus]

Right okay sure, i get you, we all want superstars, and yet! Boston is a perennial top of the East contender, Dangerous EVERY single year, make cup finals, actually win one, and oh snap their best player was drafted 26th overall

And then I see a team with Conor McDavid and Leon Draisatl, one of them being the best player on planet earth and maybe ever, 1st and 3rd overall picks
Can't even get CLOSE to a Stanley Cup
It's weird eh??, 150 and 100 point players shockingly can't get you a cup, but the 70 pt centers can??
It's almost like you need a number of different variables and assets or something?

Look man, you could do WAY worse than starting the construction of a foundation with building blocks like two producing 2 way Centers in 23yr old Suzuki and 22yr old Dach (+potentially drafting another C this June) so lighten up a little will ya

Only arguably 5 of the last 20 cups winner won without a superstar caliber offensive player and 4 of those won off of the back of HOF goalies combined with HOF defensemen.

Such as :

Chara/Thomas
Doughty/Quick
Niedermayer/Brodeur


If people here think our current prospect pool is good enough to be perennial cup contenders and compare to any of the past cup winners (minus the Blues, which we still compare to unfavorably) they're hilariously wrong.

If people here are confident that we can reliably find what our prospect pool is currently missing by drafting 20th+, then they need to go back to statistics class.

 

[Redux91]

It's such a stupid battle to yell about who is better when we have them both.

This isn't like the Desharnais vs. Galchenyuk debate when a higher upside, young player drafted to be our 1C was consistently not given a chance to play there.

Suzuki and Dach are both given top 6 minutes and neither are being blocked by a worse player.

And the irony..
If Danault is still here... Dach doesnt get to bloom this year..
shit its also possible he could be hurting Suzukis growth too..
I'm just, I'm just saying

Maybe we weren't insane to not want to sign him lol, it was always more than just the "paying him 5 or 5.5 or 6" that was whatever, it was more about this very moment we're in where our 2 young C's are playing 22 mins a night.

And I much prefer this scenario, and can still be happy for Phil over there

 

[WeThreeKings]

And the irony..
If Danault is still here... Dach doesnt get to bloom this year..
shit its also possible he could be hurting Suzukis growth too..
I'm just, I'm just saying

Maybe we weren't insane to not want to sign him lol, it was always more than just the "paying him 5 or 5.5 or 6" that was whatever, it was more about this very moment we're in where our 2 young C's are playing 22 mins a night.

And I much prefer this scenario, and can still be happy for Phil over there

The athletic had a what if we drafted Brady Tkachuk article. And it lead to Danault likely being resigned.

I know people like to think about both of those things but if we have Brady and Danault, MB is still here and we are likely still in that mushy middle.

Things worked out how they needed to in the end.

 

[BLNY]

When you can inject some life into Hoffman, you're doing a great job. Dach's ability to adapt from off-the-rush offense with Suzuki and Caufield to running a "half court" offense and cycling the puck for Hoffman is impressive.

 

[Supersonic]

The cool thing is that we have Dach and Suzuki. So who one person thinks is better is irrelevant. We don't have to make a choice.

And I can't believe I saw someone lamenting having two 70 pt centers. We've barely ever had 1. If we had 2, if the rest of the team is filled out correctly that's a cup contender.

Just off the top of my head, having 2 70-point centres and a potential 40-50 goal scoring sniper (guess who) is MILES better than anything we’ve seen up front on 25+ years

The fact that our system’s strength is depth means the rest of the team should be solid too. Why are people crying?

 

[WeThreeKings]

Just off the top of my head, having 2 70-point centres and a potential 40-50 goal scoring sniper (guess who) is MILES better than anything we’ve seen up front on 25+ years

The fact that our system’s strength is depth means the rest of the team should be solid too. Why are people crying?

I really don't know. I guess because Slafkovsky didn't have a Crosby like draft year?

 

[HabzSauce]

If Kirby was drafted by the habs 3rd overall and was showing what he does now i bet you guys wouldn’t think it’s that crazy to think he can be better than Suzuki

But since Suzuki was here before it’s like we can’t say those things

Honestly they are pretty close as is but crazy how short of a memory people have.

Just a few months ago, Suzuki was looking very dominant and we were debating if we'd trade dach for PLD.

I'm still taking Suzuki over dach, however it is very possible Dach surpasses him at some point.

 

[SlafySZN]

Honestly they are pretty close as is but crazy how short of a memory people have.

Just a few months ago, Suzuki was looking very dominant and we were debating if we'd trade dach for PLD.

I'm still taking Suzuki over dach, however it is very possible Dach surpasses him at some point.

No one with a brain would think about that lol Dach was traded here to develop and find his game, not be a finished product his first 10 games here or otherwise traded i swear some people.

I'm not against the idea that Dach might turn out better, but it would need more support than the 15 most recent games, especially since Suzuki has been quite bad for reasons unknown ... Undisclosed injury?

Dach is injured too and is playing his best games.

But what i’m saying is just for a fun debate, i’m not saying Suzuki is bad or that they can’t both be good by saying Dach might become better!

It’s like… if we get Bedard or Fantilli they’ll become the 1C, doesn’t mean it’s an insult to Suzuki or Dach

 

[Redux91]

Just off the top of my head, having 2 70-point centres and a potential 40-50 goal scoring sniper (guess who) is MILES better than anything we’ve seen up front on 25+ years

The fact that our system’s strength is depth means the rest of the team should be solid too. Why are people crying?

And I want to be clear about something too, i'm being "conservative" with the two 70 pt C thing
When we get better, and plug in much better players and actually get the right PP personnel + them just getting older and better, we're talking about possible 90 pt players here, and its not hyperbole, they are simply that good and will be that good, and we just need to surround them PROPERLY
Which, they will
its not about needing to be 1st overall for 5 straight years ffs lol, but being top 5-7 in the draft for 3, 4 , 5 years IS paramount tho, there's no doubt about that
But people need to realize we've already started to stock up and build on that plan, its not that "the rebuild started with 1st ov Slaf", no it's more:
We've got (in a redraft) top 5 pick in Suzuki
We've got (in a redraft) top 5 pick in Caufield
We've got top 5 pick Dach
We've got top 5 pick Slafkosvky
And hopefully, another top 5 pick in 2023 + FLA pick
and god knows what happens for 2024 draft! (OR you get PLD)

All THIS , whether people like it or not, whether people believe it or not, are solid pieces and is definitely something you can BUILD around, and not need to be 1st overall until 2026, thats ridiculous, we're already right in the middle of this grand plan

 

[SlafySZN]

It's such a stupid battle to yell about who is better when we have them both.

This isn't like the Desharnais vs. Galchenyuk debate when a higher upside, young player drafted to be our 1C was consistently not given a chance to play there.

Suzuki and Dach are both given top 6 minutes and neither are being blocked by a worse player.

I agree we have them both and it’s not a battle between the two, at least for me.

It’s just interesting to see Dach develop and with everything he is showing, that he might become better than Suzuki, which is a plus for us.

 

[Wats]

The cool thing is that we have Dach and Suzuki. So who one person thinks is better is irrelevant. We don't have to make a choice.

And I can't believe I saw someone lamenting having two 70 pt centers. We've barely ever had 1. If we had 2, if the rest of the team is filled out correctly that's a cup contender.

The best part is both are the cerebral type of C which tends to age well. Meaning, they should stay effective a long time.

 

[SlafySZN]

It's one thing to be the best player in the ice in meaningless games with no pressure. It's another in big games that actually mean something, with tons of pressure. Suzuki has already shown in the NHL, plus Junior, that he elevates his game in high pressure situations.

Dach has a lot of road to go through to show he's Suzuki level, let alone better.

At any rate you really need two really good centers to contend. Let's hope Dach and Suzuki are them. And let's hope it's only the media talking about who's better. We need both to win, not for them to be in some kind of meaningless competition with each other.

I agree with everything you said, it’s not a competition between the two.

Some seems to take it as if it’s an insult to suzuki or something, it would actually be good for us if Dach becomes better… They’re different type of center also.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

And the irony..
If Danault is still here... Dach doesnt get to bloom this year..
shit its also possible he could be hurting Suzukis growth too..
I'm just, I'm just saying

Maybe we weren't insane to not want to sign him lol, it was always more than just the "paying him 5 or 5.5 or 6" that was whatever, it was more about this very moment we're in where our 2 young C's are playing 22 mins a night.

And I much prefer this scenario, and can still be happy for Phil over there

But the Maestro gave Gallagher 6.5 million instead of giving Danault 5.5, it was a stupid move at the time. Then he brought in Dvorak.. At least Danault could have been traded away unlike Gallagher. It wasn't about this very moment with our two young centers, it was Bergevin working his usual shit magic. St Louis isn't Julien or Ducharme or Té-rien, we don't know how things would be playing out and if Danault would end up where he belongs on the 3rd. Danault over Gallagher all day every day.

 

[Tetragrammaton]

The cool thing is that we have Dach and Suzuki. So who one person thinks is better is irrelevant. We don't have to make a choice.

We're here playing arm chair GM and coach, we do like to talk about who the 1C will be. Many don't see it yet because they're not paying attention or seeing straight. 77 > 14

 

[JT3]

Only arguably 5 of the last 20 cups winner won without a superstar caliber offensive player and 4 of those won off of the back of HOF goalies combined with HOF defensemen.

Such as :

Chara/Thomas
Doughty/Quick
Niedermayer/Brodeur


If people here think our current prospect pool is good enough to be perennial cup contenders and compare to any of the past cup winners (minus the Blues, which we still compare to unfavorably) they're hilariously wrong.

If people here are confident that we can reliably find what our prospect pool is currently missing by drafting 20th+, then they need to go back to statistics class.

So what are you suggesting? Should we just go full Chicago and trade Suzuki and Dach and hope for the best with whatever magic beans we end up with over the next 5+ years of being dogshit? Cross our fingers and hope we end up with a 100+ pt C? And if that doesn't happen, do we just start the process all over again? This is such a ridiculous take lmao

 

[HabzSauce]

No one with a brain would think about that lol Dach was traded here to develop and find his game, not be a finished product his first 10 games here or otherwise traded i swear some people.

From Hugo's perspective of course not. Fans think differently which is who i was speaking of and i definitely recall seeing those proposals being tossed around.

Dach was a cool trade at the time but not everyone here was on board with it. He was coming off a wrist injury with a lot to prove at the NHL level so it makes sense that fans were still hypothesizing potential assets they could get by trading him.

 

[Trabdy2]

I've been very pleased with Dach's play lately and it's been exciting seeing his game develop through the season. I get the feeling he still has a fair amount of headroom in his game development too. He's been using his tools very well.

As for the Suzuki comparisons, Suzuki seems to me to still a better player overall and it's not that close (yet, anyways). And they both have room in their game to grow.

 

[Tyrus]

So what are you suggesting? Should we just go full Chicago and trade Suzuki and Dach and hope for the best with whatever magic beans we end up with over the next 5+ years of being dogshit? Cross our fingers and hope we end up with a 100+ pt C? And if that doesn't happen, do we just start the process all over again? This is such a ridiculous take lmao

Of course not, the brass made decisions and the best course of action currently is probably to see them through and cross our fingers we get lucky.

My initial comment was an answer to the idea that having two 60-70 points young Cs is one of the best thing that could ever happen to a rebuild.

 

[Rob Sense]

And I want to be clear about something too, i'm being "conservative" with the two 70 pt C thing
When we get better, and plug in much better players and actually get the right PP personnel + them just getting older and better, we're talking about possible 90 pt players here, and its not hyperbole, they are simply that good and will be that good, and we just need to surround them PROPERLY
Which, they will
its not about needing to be 1st overall for 5 straight years ffs lol, but being top 5-7 in the draft for 3, 4 , 5 years IS paramount tho, there's no doubt about that
But people need to realize we've already started to stock up and build on that plan, its not that "the rebuild started with 1st ov Slaf", no it's more:
We've got (in a redraft) top 5 pick in Suzuki
We've got (in a redraft) top 5 pick in Caufield
We've got top 5 pick Dach
We've got top 5 pick Slafkosvky
And hopefully, another top 5 pick in 2023 + FLA pick
and god knows what happens for 2024 draft! (OR you get PLD)

All THIS , whether people like it or not, whether people believe it or not, are solid pieces and is definitely something you can BUILD around, and not need to be 1st overall until 2026, thats ridiculous, we're already right in the middle of this grand plan

don't forget Guhle

 

[JT3]

Of course not, the brass made decisions and the best course of action currently is probably to see them through and cross our fingers we get lucky.

My initial comment was an answer to the idea that having two 60-70 points young Cs is one of the best thing that could ever happen to a rebuild.

Fair enough. It's not the the best possible outcome, but it's definitely a good one. Having two 1B's for example is pretty good, and with the prospects/players we currently have like Caufield, Slaf and prospects Roy, Farrell, etc we can hopefully build a decently strong top 6 out of that. Add in maybe a Dubois trade and a couple of high end draft picks this year and hopefully we're off to the races.

 

[donghabs98]