Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[JoelWarlord]

I didn’t see any in-depth comment about Nazar. I saw someone mocking his height and draft position, to insinuate he will never be any better than the guy who has [let’s all check notes now] no more than 30 pts at any time in his three seasons in the NHL.

You saw someone making fun of the months of discourse on this board about how trading for Dach was a massive risk when we could have picked Nazar instead. His height is relevant in the context of the entire argument about "risk" where a 5'9 forward who hadn't yet played a college game was somehow presented as a safer choice than a 21 year old 6'4 C who had already become a regular NHLer.

Mocking a prospect’s height the day after our own mid-first round, notably short youngster had a smoking hot game is ridiculous.

It's a throwaway joke man. Likening Nazar to Caufield is also ridiculous, the two are in completely different categories as prospects and Caufield panning out does not mean that it is off limits to ever point out a prospect's height for the rest of our lives.

We can enjoy and root for Dach’ as blossoming without taking shots at innocent teenagers,

OK. Once again it's not about "taking shots" at Nazar at all, it's about the months of hysteria that we passed on the apparent venerable world-beater Frank Nazar for no-good 26 point Kirby Dach who was apparently on a one-way flight to bustville with his bum wrist.

 

[Trabdy2]

Dach continues to show what I remember from him in that Hawks-Oilers series a few years ago. He's a tough matchup on the boards if you need to win a puck battle against him. He's very nifty with his positioning and puck protection so he's able to win pucks and create space and make plays from his won battles on the boards.

 

[Skip Bayless]

Dach continues to show what I remember from him in that Hawks-Oilers series a few years ago. He's a tough matchup on the boards if you need to win a puck battle against him. He's very nifty with his positioning and puck protection so he's able to win pucks and create space and make plays from his won battles on the boards.

And he's only gonna get better.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Dach continues to show what I remember from him in that Hawks-Oilers series a few years ago. He's a tough matchup on the boards if you need to win a puck battle against him. He's very nifty with his positioning and puck protection so he's able to win pucks and create space and make plays from his won battles on the boards.

His skating, stickhandling and skating make him a difficult player to defend.. and he has easy playmaking skill.

He's still raw which is what is fascinating, I think we'll see a solid year from him this year and a bit of a similar start next year but I truly believe there's gonna be a point where the whole package 'clicks' and we see a guy who can be a 70 pt center.

 

[SlafySZN]

Monahan has taken a lot f faceoffs. For me, that's the role of a centermen. Dach took only two and lost them.

Who cares about faceoffs to determine who had the job of a C during the play? Lol he was still the centerman of that line, was at the position of center during the play.

 

[morhilane]

Monahan has taken a lot f faceoffs. For me, that's the role of a centermen. Dach took only two and lost them.

They were taking their strong side faceoffs, Dach would have had 4, but was chased off two of them.

 

[ReHabs]

OK. Once again it's not about "taking shots" at Nazar at all, it's about the months of hysteria that we passed on the apparent venerable world-beater Frank Nazar for no-good 26 point Kirby Dach who was apparently on a one-way flight to bustville with his bum wrist.

There must be a big insecurity complex with some of you if the case will be that after every game you’ll come out like cockatoos and crow about how you were right/“they” were wrong.

Is that really what normal, adjusted people would do?

Yeah, in the absence of complete information, some people didn’t approve of a trade. So what?!

On Habs Reddit the users were were gleefully celebrating every time someone traded away would underperform or struggle in any way. It would confirm to them that Bergevin had “won the trade”. This is the exact same vibe. Very strange.

 

[Twisted Sinister]

There must be a big insecurity complex with some of you if the case will be that after every game you’ll come out like cockatoos and crow about how you were right/“they” were wrong.

Is that really what normal, adjusted people would do?

Yeah, in the absence of complete information, some people didn’t approve of a trade. So what?!

On Habs Reddit the users were were gleefully celebrating every time someone traded away would underperform or struggle in any way. It would confirm to them that Bergevin had “won the trade”. This is the exact same vibe. Very strange.

The player looks pretty decent so far, but these things are decided over years, not a few games.

 

[Kaiden Ghoul]

Damn… i liked Romanov when he was with us, but Dach… Jesus Christ
Been a long time i didnt buy a Habs jersey, look like someone new will be rockin a 77 jersey soon

BTW back in the days i wanted Weber on the habs. Check. I wanted Dach on the habs check. Should i dare say i want Dobson too, cause i really want to see him in bleu blanc rouge

 

[ReHabs]

The player looks pretty decent so far, but these things are decided over years, not a few games.

It’s been one game, man… Who wins if Dach does well? We do! Who wins if Slaf does well? We do!

Who wins if Nazar and Wright don’t do well? Nobody!

This is the exact mentality that Bergevin-era fans had fomented and fostered among the online Habs community. Zero-sum, insecure, spiteful. Domi does well for us, and Chucky struggles — haha very good. Then the same when Domi was traded away. Gleefully mocking Kotkaniemi’s struggles... scoffing at Beaulieu and Mete for trying to keep their careers going…

What’s most funny is to mock Nazar’s height and the fact he’s going to college as if our own Cole Caufield didn’t just come from college and kick all sorts of ass.

I really don’t understand it man. It’s so petty and insecure.

 

[Vachon23]

Damn… i liked Romanov when he was with us, but Dach… Jesus Christ
Been a long time i didnt buy a Habs jersey, look like someone new will be rockin a 77 jersey soon
BTW back in the days i wanted Weber on the habs. Check. I wanted Dach on the habs check. Should i dare say i want Dobson too, cause i really want to see him in bleu blanc rouge

I hope you will be right on Dobson too ! haha

 

[Habs Halifax]

His skating, stickhandling and skating make him a difficult player to defend.. and he has easy playmaking skill.

He's still raw which is what is fascinating, I think we'll see a solid year from him this year and a bit of a similar start next year but I truly believe there's gonna be a point where the whole package 'clicks' and we see a guy who can be a 70 pt center.

I like his patience with the puck... Don't see panic decisions being made and he's not afraid of contact. I think we got a hit here. Dach looks like the guy we all liked in his draft and D+1.

 

[JoelWarlord]

There must be a big insecurity complex with some of you if the case will be that after every game you’ll come out like cockatoos and crow about how you were right/“they” were wrong.

Lmao

Yeah, in the absence of complete information, some people didn’t approve of a trade. So what?!

In the absence of complete information, some people spent 3 months complaining nonstop about a 21 year old who had already reached a 3C floor as if it was some wildly risky trade. And now some people are making some jokes about it. It's a discussion board and people are making some jokes and discussing earlier topics of discussion.

On Habs Reddit the users were were gleefully celebrating every time someone traded away would underperform or struggle in any way. It would confirm to them that Bergevin had “won the trade”. This is the exact same vibe. Very strange.

I think you're confusing some joking around and ribbing with insecurity.

Come on man, you spent all summer going on and on about Kirby Dach's apparent laundry list of flaws, but now it's illegal and a sign of insecurity to make a joke about a 5'9" draft year forward having some risk to his projection too?

 

[JoelWarlord]

Also idk where the idea anyone's ragging on Nazar for going to college came from. I only brought up college at all to say that at the draft he hadn't even played a college game yet so it was silly to treat him like a rock solid blue chip prospect.

 

[ReHabs]

Lmao

In the absence of complete information, some people spent 3 months complaining nonstop about a 21 year old who had already reached a 3C floor as if it was some wildly risky trade. And now some people are making some jokes about it. It's a discussion board and people are making some jokes and discussing earlier topics of discussion.

I think you're confusing some joking around and ribbing with insecurity.

Come on man, you spent all summer going on and on about Kirby Dach's apparent laundry list of flaws, but now it's illegal and a sign of insecurity to make a joke about a 5'9" draft year forward having some risk to his projection too?

Funny how your rules work. Is it only positive analysis and praise is allowed in your books? Any critical analysis of the trade (not necessarily the player or his potential) is a scarlet letter to be branded on the Bad Fan, is that it?

Did you pull the same chintzy stunts when Bergevin was running amok? Did anybody who criticized the Alzner or Drouin acquisitions face your scrutiny? What’s the difference here — we all react to moves as they happen. Some like moves and give their reasoning and others criticize moves and give their reasons too — it’s very fun when people don’t make it personal for some strange reason.

Fact is nobody wanted Dach to fail or wants him to fail. Least of all me. I said there are downside risks to acquiring him (first time I’ve heard a developed argument be called a “laundry list”) and I stand by my reasoning.

You don’t want to remember things properly? That’s fine. Use the search bar and see if I’ve ever said Dach will fail or if I said Dach is bound to fail or if I said that I want Dach to fail. I’ll delete my account immediately if you successfully expose me as a lunatic who roots against his own.

Otherwise, pump the breaks with all the shade tossing. You can boast about him all you want, we all as Habs fans should be so lucky to enjoy a Kirby Dach that hits his potential.

 

[Adriatic]

Gonna be fun to watch how he develops. Just don't like his number for a forward. 77 should only be worn by defensemen.

 

[themilosh]

Dach continues to show what I remember from him in that Hawks-Oilers series a few years ago. He's a tough matchup on the boards if you need to win a puck battle against him. He's very nifty with his positioning and puck protection so he's able to win pucks and create space and make plays from his won battles on the boards.

so similar to Corey Perry but much younger, without the offensive numbers. In other words a perfect 2C

 

[Justsayin]

Gonna be fun to watch how he develops. Just don't like his number for a forward. 77 should only be worn by defensemen.

Maybe it's an hommage to Howie Morenz?

 

[Twisted Sinister]

Funny how your rules work. Is it only positive analysis and praise is allowed in your books? Any critical analysis of the trade (not necessarily the player or his potential) is a scarlet letter to be branded on the Bad Fan, is that it?

Did you pull the same chintzy stunts when Bergevin was running amok? Did anybody who criticized the Alzner or Drouin acquisitions face your scrutiny? What’s the difference here — we all react to moves as they happen. Some like moves and give their reasoning and others criticize moves and give their reasons too — it’s very fun when people don’t make it personal for some strange reason.

Fact is nobody wanted Dach to fail or wants him to fail. Least of all me. I said there are downside risks to acquiring him (first time I’ve heard a developed argument be called a “laundry list”) and I stand by my reasoning.

You don’t want to remember things properly? That’s fine. Use the search bar and see if I’ve ever said Dach will fail or if I said Dach is bound to fail or if I said that I want Dach to fail. I’ll delete my account immediately if you successfully expose me as a lunatic who roots against his own.

Otherwise, pump the breaks with all the shade tossing. You can boast about him all you want, we all as Habs fans should be so lucky to enjoy a Kirby Dach that hits his potential.

As I've said before, there is definitely a faction of people here that engage in toxic positivity, attaching themselves to the team in such a way that every questioning of the team's moves are viewed as an attack on the individual.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Funny how your rules work. Is it only positive analysis and praise is allowed in your books? Any critical analysis of the trade (not necessarily the player or his potential) is a scarlet letter to be branded on the Bad Fan, is that it?

I've said multiple times that I have no problem with people preferring Nazar (or Kemmel, or Lekkerimaki, or whoever else) to Dach, and that I just thought the level of hysteria was rather silly as if there weren't any risks associated with the alternatives. I think you would have to admit that the discourse around the Dach trade went well beyond "critical analysis" this summer and turned into some spirals of really out there concern about his wrist or his production and his Kotkaniemi-esque profile and so on.

To make it absolutely clear I do not think that simply preferring a certain prospect (or preferring to keep Romanov) over trading for Dach was a crazy idea worthy of scorn, I just think it is very funny that Dach's flaws and risks caused such a spiralling anxiety tornado all summer as if the alternatives were all rock solid blue-chippers. That does not mean I think anyone who was anxious about Dach this summer is a Bad Fan to be shunned, it just means I think it was funny and a bit silly in retrospect. That's all.

Did you pull the same chintzy stunts when Bergevin was running amok? Did anybody who criticized the Alzner or Drouin acquisitions face your scrutiny? What’s the difference here — we all react to moves as they happen. Some like moves and give their reasoning and others criticize moves and give their reasons too — it’s very fun when people don’t make it personal for some strange reason.

I was as big a Bergevin critic as anyone on here and I despised the Alzner move from day 1. I initially was fine with the Drouin trade on the day it happened but when he let Markov and Radulov walk I soured on it as the logic of it (supplement the team's offence immediately and gain long-term potential) no longer made sense. I also absolutely hated the Edmundson trade on the day it happened too and was very happy to be 100% wrong about him. I would not begrudge anyone for doing some ribbing about the level of anger I had about the Edmundson trade back then.

I would also not bedgrude anyone for ribbing me about the absolute despair and rage I felt about the Subban trade (I still hold that it was a bad trade given they could have traded Subban for an absolute haul of futures and retooled more aggressively + earlier in Price's career, but I was 100% dead wrong on the longevity argument of Subban vs Weber and absolutely wrong on my very pessimistic read of Weber's future at the time of the trade). Overall I'd say the Bergevin era comparison is a bit odd given this is the kind of move Bergevin would never make, so it's entirely logically consistent for someone to have been generally opposed to the vast majority of Bergevin's decisions while also thinking the extent of the negative reaction around Dach got out of hand.

Nonetheless, I will do my best not to engage in that kind of ribbing with you as it's clear you don't appreciate it, and that's fine. I'm sorry for being a bit of a dick on this topic, I wasn't initially intending to really single anyone out and like I've said the whole thing is more about the level of fear/anxiety with the Dach discussions all summer and not so much that anyone who had reservations deserves to be pilloried for it. Truly I just think it's kinda funny and something to laugh about, not some points-scoring affair as if I'm some clairvoyant savant declaring victory on the Kirby Dach affair after one game. Either way, I'll move on now.

 

[Rob Sense]

Gonna be fun to watch how he develops. Just don't like his number for a forward. 77 should only be worn by defensemen.

Phil Esposito...Pierre Turgeon...probably others.

so similar to Corey Perry but much younger, without the offensive numbers. In other words a perfect 2C

not as gritty though.

 

[ReHabs]

Truly I just think it's kinda funny and something to laugh about, not some points-scoring affair as if I'm some clairvoyant savant declaring victory on the Kirby Dach affair after one game. Either way, I'll move on now.

It’s been two games.

You can rub it in my face, and I’ll take it, if Dach is on pace for more than, say, 40pts by the trade deadline. How’s that sound?

I’d love to be wrong about the Dach acquisition (who wouldn’t want a big top6 C in exchange for Romanov and a pick?).

For the record, I thought trading Romanov for the rather high the first round pick was a good move given the many dmen coming up and I would’ve drafted a forward (not necessarily Nazar) with that pick. Cheerio

 

[SlafySZN]

It’s been two games.

You can rub it in my face, and I’ll take it, if Dach is on pace for more than, say, 40pts by the trade deadline. How’s that sound?

I’d love to be wrong about the Dach acquisition (who wouldn’t want a big top6 C in exchange for Romanov and a pick?).

For the record, I thought trading Romanov for the rather high the first round pick was a good move given the many dmen coming up and I would’ve drafted a forward (not necessarily Nazar) with that pick. Cheerio

They had no intention of trading Romanov for a pick if it wasn’t to get Dach.

So drafting with the pick is in people’s imagination.

Plus they didn’t acquire Dach so he can be the absolute best he can be this year, so even if he doesn’t have 40 points at the deadline doesn’t mean you’re ‘’right’’.

 

[HabsAddict]

Dach is now front runner for Lady Bing award.

The way he helped an opposing player get over the boards, face first is sportsman of the year conduct.

He's growing on me...by leaps and bounds.

So far, great trade.

 

[SlafySZN]