Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Rob Sense]

Gorton had no problem saying it to NYR media..

and they rebuilt through the draft and young talent.

 

[LaP]

Ownership is comprised of a consortium of business people who only care about maximization of profits and give a rats ass about a “great draft”.

Gorton will be negatively impacting how he is viewed by his bosses, if the Habs are in the hunt for a playoff spot and instead of status quo or adding assets decides to “sell off” - it sends a message of my fantasy hockey league team building is more important than your businesses revenues coming out of 2-years of lo$$ due to pandemic

I don't think it's that simple. Or else Intel would not be trying to do graphic cards and the xbox would not exist. It's very possible for a president to meet the owners/shareholders and explain them that a short term loss can be a long term gain.

For example let's just say we want to extend Monahan buy we were unable to do so by the deadline (he's asking for too many years or whatever), Then Gorton could meet Molson and tell him we will probably lose Monahan this summer but he is worth a 1st and a prospect at the deadline and those assets could be very valuable moving forward. He could pitch Mesar as a example of the gain.

Microsoft lost lot of money with the xbox at first. Specially with the first xbox and the 360. Intel right now is not doing a cent with their GPUs. The shareholders and the board of directors understand that it is a short term loss for a long term gain specially for Intel as their main competitor is doing both CPUs and GPUs and have better APUs because of that.

I think it would be very hard for Molson and the other owners to argue that 2 months of Monahan and one playoffs participation would bring more money than 10 to 15 years of a good young player with the ELC coming with it. Yes the draft is a gamble but it's been proven time and time again that the more picks you have the higher the chance to get the guy who will make your franchise a winner for multiple years.

People have been conditioned by 30 years of mediocrity to think you can't manage your assets with a long term vision. But i think this is 100% false. Business men and women understand that you must have a long term plan or else you wont succeed, Any company having only a short term vision is unlikely to survive for long.

 

[salbutera]

and they rebuilt through the draft and young talent.

We’ll have to wait & see - I will be very surprised if this team are sellers at the deadline if they’re in the hunt for a spot.

 

[Benstheman]

We’ll have to wait & see - I will be very surprised if this team are sellers at the deadline if they’re in the hunt for a spot.

Habs?? Don't worry, they won't be in a playoffs spot hunt.

 

[salbutera]

Habs?? Don't worry, they won't be in a playoffs spot hunt.

That sure would solve any & all debates..

 

[LaP]

There very little profit margin growth & revenue increase to be had with Habs even if they were to become a dynasty team.

Ownerships greatest growth opportunity is via acquiring & growing non hockey related revenue (construction, concerts / events etc). In order to continue investing in non hockey related ventures, however, requires constant revenue stream (re: ca$h) to keep flowing from Habs.

There could be regression associated with another 30 years of mediocrity though. So far the mediocrity of this team in the last 30 years has not affected fans (thank to Price a 5th overall pick) but another 30 years of being a bubble team could have an impact. Building a dynasty would secure the popularity of the team for a very long time.

CH should not take its fans for granted. Video games company did by building buggy games and selling game content present on the original disc/download as DLC and lot of them are struggling atm. Activision will be gone soon. There's rumors about Ubi being sold. It would have been much better for them long term to invest more in Q&A and make less money with DLC. They had a short term vision and lot of them are paying the price today.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Without Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 7 pts in 8 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 8 games

With Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 8 pts in 4 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 4 games
Dach: 7 pts in 4 games

The idea that Dach is the only one benefiting from playing in the the top line is wrong.

 

[Apfel Struble]

If we buy KH fails the test and should e fired.

I think even if the Habs were solidly on pace to make the playoffs by the TDL (which they won't, let's be honest), KH wouldn't trade for rental vets. He would however probably try to acquire young to youngish impact players, like Chychrun, Dubois or even Laine to consolidate the core and enter the cup window faster. The player KH would acquire would need to be a part of the team for at least 5 years

If the team is in the PO race in march with how strong the East and Atlantic are looking, it will because the young core is just that good. Guhle, Harris, Xhekaj and Slaf would all need to be Calder finalists good for it to happen

This is all hypothetical though, because the Habs are already in the bottom 10 despite their strong start. Hopefully we get another 1st (though probably for the 2024 draft) at the TDL and we win the lottery

 

[Captain Mountain]

So they'll trade kids and picks to make the playoffs? Doesn't make any sense to me. That's what being a buyers at the deadline is. Nobody will trade vets for Hoffman and Dandonov at the deadline.

They wont. Largely because its very clearly misconstruing what Gorton was conveying based on one comment.

The org is not setting a timeline on this, but the priority is giving young guys the opportunity to develop. If Montreal is in a position to make the playoffs then, in furthering the development, they'd try to make the playoffs. Gorton clearly wasn't expecting the team to contend for the playoffs, just that they'd be better than last year.

And the reality is that 12 games into the season, Montreal is second to last in their division and the only team with a negative goal differential. This is with them generally getting very strong goaltending from Montembault and Allen and unsustainable production from Suzuki and Caufield. They're on pace for being more than 4 points out of the playoffs at American Thanksgiving, which is pretty good indicator of them not being a playoff team.

 

[JianYang]

Gorton had no problem saying it to NYR media..

I recall Hughes already saying something to that extent in a more informal sense. I believe it was during a podcast where he said the Habs are probably not contending for a cup this year.

I know thats not exactly as specific as the ranger letter, but reading between the lines, he's basically admitting that they are on the developmental phase of their competitive cycle.

 

[Colezuki]

Without Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 7 pts in 8 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 8 games

With Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 8 pts in 4 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 4 games
Dach: 7 pts in 4 games

The idea that Dach is the only one benefiting from playing in the the top line is wrong.

It's a legit top line, you need to keep it together. it's the rest of the lineup that needs work

 

[HuGort]

A fire hydrant can make passes? Kirby is the perfect compliment to that line.

Next year:

Dach - Suzuki - Caufield
Slafkovsky - Dubois - Anderson

Possibly Mesar with Slaf and Dubois..

Dach would have 2 points in 12 games if playing back at center. He can't shoot nor win a faceoff

 

[Rob Sense]

Dach would have 2 points in 12 games if playing back at center. He can't shoot nor win a faceoff

exaggerate much?

 

[tooji]

If dach reaches his potential we are in good f***ing shape as a team

 

[The Great Weal]

A fire hydrant could score 68 points Playing with Suzuki and Caufield. Look at Monahan when he was there?

Dach is still the best option with them and has helped them produce the most. Dach does need to shoot more though. Giving high end passes is great and all, but if he wants to be a dynamic player then he needs to shoot more.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

There could be regression associated with another 30 years of mediocrity though. So far the mediocrity of this team in the last 30 years has not affected fans (thank to Price a 5th overall pick) but another 30 years of being a bubble team could have an impact. Building a dynasty would secure the popularity of the team for a very long time.

CH should not take its fans for granted. Video games company did by building buggy games and selling game content present on the original disc/download as DLC and lot of them are struggling atm. Activision will be gone soon. There's rumors about Ubi being sold. It would have been much better for them long term to invest more in Q&A and make less money with DLC. They had a short term vision and lot of them are paying the price today.

His whole thought process is always devoid of an understanding of fanbase renewal and the importance of periods of contention to bolster and maintain it. Let alone the fact it is inevitable that teams will go through periods of underperformance/roster turnover where you need to sacrifice short term gain to make the turnovers as short as possible.

All businesses are cyclical, but he doesn't seem to understand this natural cycle of modern hockey. Other sports structures like baseball allow to maintain performance for longer periods (think Yankees and their massive expenses), whereas the very nature of basketball which has very limited rosters compared to other team sports, makes it more natural to tank (like Reinsdorf and Krause deciding to gut the dynastic Bulls and rebuild rather than trying to keep a winning core as long as possible - MJ was 34). Hockey is a bit in between.

 

[26Mats]

Without Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 7 pts in 8 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 8 games

With Dach on the top line:
Suzuki: 8 pts in 4 games
Caufield: 7 pts in 4 games
Dach: 7 pts in 4 games

The idea that Dach is the only one benefiting from playing in the the top line is wrong.

It's a small sample, but so far so good!

I really didn't want to see Cole and Nick get stuck with a player like Anderson that can't consistently make plays with his linemates.

 

[kyne]

Dach is still the best option with them and has helped them produce the most. Dach does need to shoot more though. Giving high end passes is great and all, but if he wants to be a dynamic player then he needs to shoot more.

Face offs can be worked on but can you instill the instinct to shoot? I keep thinking Dach would make a good cerebral type defenseman.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Dach is still the best option with them and has helped them produce the most. Dach does need to shoot more though. Giving high end passes is great and all, but if he wants to be a dynamic player then he needs to shoot more.

Dach has as many shots as Suzuki 5v5. He probably needs to shoot more on the PP, but then again his passing has been pretty key to the PP lately.

He really needs to work on his shot more than shooting more.

 

[Andy]

Dach would have 2 points in 12 games if playing back at center. He can't shoot nor win a faceoff

That would be impossible since he had 3 points as a centre

 

[The Great Weal]

Dach has as many shots as Suzuki 5v5. He probably needs to shoot more on the PP, but then again his passing has been pretty key to the PP lately.

He really needs to work on his shot more than shooting more.

You work on your shot by shooting. Suzuki and Caufield can shoot and pass well which makes them threats both ways, Dach doesn't do that. Suzuki may pass more and CC may shoot more, but being able to do both is what makes them so hard to contain.

 

[Captain Mountain]

You work on your shot by shooting. Suzuki and Caufield can shoot and pass well which makes them threats both ways, Dach doesn't do that. Suzuki may pass more and CC may shoot more, but being able to do both is what makes them so hard to contain.

Dach has as many scoring chances as Suzuki and more high danger chances. He's getting those chances, the issue is that his shot isn't that good. And game time reps is not the only way to work on that.

Suzuki is also not going to be anywhere close to the 5v5 31.25% shooter or 25.8% shooter he's been this year, so I don't quite get your argument there. If Dach needs to shoot more, then so does Suzuki. And both of those things would result in Caufield shooting less.

 

[The Great Weal]

Dach has as many scoring chances as Suzuki and more high danger chances. He's getting those chances, the issue is that his shot isn't that good. And game time reps is not the only way to work on that.

Suzuki is also not going to be anywhere close to the 5v5 31.25% shooter or 25.8% shooter he's been this year, so I don't quite get your argument there. If Dach needs to shoot more, then so does Suzuki. And both of those things would result in Caufield shooting less.

Suzuki has nearly double the amount of shots than Dach, you can't simply cherry pick a certain scenario to make them seem comparable.

Suzuki last year alone had more goals than Dach had his entire career, it's very disingenuous to claim that they are comparable. Dach's shot is weak and pacing less than 15 goals a season is not good for a top 6 forward, he needs to shoot more which in turn works on his shot. Not sure how you don't get that argument.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Suzuki has nearly double the amount of shots than Dach, you can't simply cherry pick a certain scenario to make them seem comparable.

Suzuki last year alone had more goals than Dach had his entire career, it's very disingenuous to claim that they are comparable. Dach's shot is weak and pacing less than 15 goals a season is not good for a top 6 forward, he needs to shoot more which in turn works on his shot. Not sure how you don't get that argument.

Its not cherry picking, its different game states. This is the same shit people used to argue that Drouin was better than Lehkonen.

5v5 Suzuki and Dach have the same number of shots. The difference is that Suzuki has 4 shots on the PK and 9 shots on the PP. Top 6 is a concept that applies to 5v5 play, not the PP or PK.

Dach's role on the PP is more facilitator because it SHOULD be that. Because his shot isn't as good. And 5v5 he's getting shots off. Its just that his shot isn't that good.

It would be nice if he shot more on the PP, but its not that big a deal. He's getting the puck in scoring positions and he's taking shots. He needs to work on the mechanics of his shot more.

 

[The Great Weal]

Its not cherry picking, its different game states. This is the same shit people used to argue that Drouin was better than Lehkonen.

5v5 Suzuki and Dach have the same number of shots. The difference is that Suzuki has 4 shots on the PK and 9 shots on the PP. Top 6 is a concept that applies to 5v5 play, not the PP or PK.

Dach's role on the PP is more facilitator because it SHOULD be that. Because his shot isn't as good. And 5v5 he's getting shots off. Its just that his shot isn't that good.

It would be nice if he shot more on the PP, but its not that big a deal. He's getting the puck in scoring positions and he's taking shots. He needs to work on the mechanics of his shot more.

It absolutely is cherry picking. You are ignoring how Suzuki has nearly double the amount of shots as Dach.

A top 6 player should have more than a 13 goal pace regardless of if they are passing well. You improve your shot by shooting more.