Player Discussion Kirby Dach: Welcome to Montreal part 2

[Gravity]

His play style is hard to watch. Perimeter player that floats way too much. He’s our new patches without the shot. Don’t think he lasts 4 years here. Ppl ride Drouin and this guy has less intensity than him. Nothing has changed for Dach.


All those great passes haven’t amounted to very much. Even when playing with the terrible Patrick Kane.

Agree with you 100% but the key word is yet. Hopefully the staff works with him on that.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Agree with you 100% but the key word is yet. Hopefully the staff works with him on that.

Agreed. We will see where it goes.

 

[417]

I find the perimeter knocks a bit harsh, he definitely likes to play on the outside but he gets his nose dirty in one on one battles and often wins them.

He's not strictly on the perimeter like say Drouin is.

With a bit more luck he'd have a few more points imo.

 

[Galchenyuk15]

His play style is hard to watch. Perimeter player that floats way too much. He’s our new patches without the shot. Don’t think he lasts 4 years here. Ppl ride Drouin and this guy has less intensity than him. Nothing has changed for Dach.


All those great passes haven’t amounted to very much. Even when playing with the terrible Patrick Kane.

Your criticism is to hard on Dach at least for now and I didn't like everything I see but you need to understand what kind of player he is. He not really involved, bad at faceoff, play a celebral game much than a grinder one, seem to have no urgency in his game see emotion and didn't use is size like he can. Whatever you will do he will always still the same, it's in his DNA to try to play hockey with his hands and not is shoulders! Like him or not : this is Kirby Dach, not Eric Lindros!

He remind me of Vladimir Malakhov and Stephane Richer, all the tools in the world but the head and the heart not at the good place but when they put the switch at ON the sky is the limit! A kind of player you always want more and be easy to be upset with his play because of that!

But he generate some offensive in a real cemetery and didn't have linemates to put is name on the score sheet often. What an offensive center with no PP1, in a team with a bad PP overall, a pass first mentality guy with no one to be able to put the puck in the freaking net on his line can do. Only Suzuki and Caufield can do something with the puck for now ...

Versus Minny, Dvorak gave the puck to late for him for a goal, Middleton block a shot in PP in close range and he gave a breakaway to Josh "Tunnel Vision" Anderson! He is not the next Jean Beliveau but at least give him some time and linemate where he can show what he can do!

The bad thing, I think the guy who can change the career of this guy have the name of Corey Perry because of his style of play and the credibility he has; he could do some terrific work with Dach to become the player he can and realize what he can do with is size and determination but we didn't have Perry anymore because of a stupid gm who give 1 year to Lekhonen, didn't want Perry for 2 years but want Hoffman for 3, Armia for 4, Savard for 4 and trade for Dvorak ...

 

[Naslund]

Dach is playing with Anderson and Drouin, and is not included in the first PP unit. Any reasonable fan should agree that this does not make it easy for him to generate offense.

 

[SlafySZN]

According to Fox Sports Dach has 32.6% faceoff percentage this season. Speaks volumes on your ability to judge players though. 63% lol

Kirby Dach Faceoffs Stats - NHL Faceoffs | FOX Sports

View detailed Faceoffs Stats for Kirby Dach.

www.foxsports.com

He in fact finished the Washington game with 63% on faceoffs. Note that i said ‘’yesterday’’ in my post, talking about the Washington game.

Speaks volume on your ability to check facts before speaking, though.

 

[SlafySZN]

He’s so good at passing he’s got 2 whole assists!!!

Kinda like when Caufield was a bad goal scorer because he only had 1 goal in 30 games last season?

It wasn’t making him a bad goal scorer even if he had only 1.

Dach’s passing is so horrendous that it sent Anderson on a breakaway last game, gave Drouin a perfect chance the game before, etc… but that’s probably his fault they missed.

 

[HuGort]

He in fact finished the Washington game with 63% on faceoffs. Note that i said ‘’yesterday’’ in my post, talking about the Washington game.

Speaks volume on your ability to check facts before speaking, though.

Dach? He couldn't out draw me, and I'm 58 haven't been on skates in 40 years. He's about worst in league.

His shot couldn't break pane of glass. His wrist shot make mine look like Kovalev's. I had a wicked wrister back in the day

 

[ReHabs]

Patience about a player’s development shouldn’t imply that their first three years in the NHL should be ignored and simply written off.

He’s in his fourth year, it’s a team that has no pretensions of playing defensively or grinding out wins, and he is getting the appropriate TOI

In my opinion we can’t draw any conclusions about Dach, good or bad, but cannot ignore the context — there is a reason why Chicago gave up on him and it isn’t because they thought he would hurt their tank.

If Dach is to succeed he will have to change his scouting report.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Kinda like when Caufield was a bad goal scorer because he only had 1 goal in 30 games last season?

It wasn’t making him a bad goal scorer even if he had only 1.

Dach’s passing is so horrendous that it sent Anderson on a breakaway last game, gave Drouin a perfect chance the game before, etc… but that’s probably his fault they missed.

Dach has been generating chances while not being on the ice for that many goals against.

I'm not a tanker, but II do understand that guys will need to develop. and work to improve. I'm much happier with Dach so far this year than Dvorak. I think Kirby has been our 4th best forward.

 

[Rob Sense]

Dach? He couldn't out draw me, and I'm 58 haven't been on skates in 40 years. He's about worst in league.

His shot couldn't break pane of glass. His wrist shot make mine look like Kovalev's. I had a wicked wrister back in the day

Sorry your career ended at 18. Self-scouting was high on you.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Kinda like when Caufield was a bad goal scorer because he only had 1 goal in 30 games last season?

It wasn’t making him a bad goal scorer even if he had only 1.

Dach’s passing is so horrendous that it sent Anderson on a breakaway last game, gave Drouin a perfect chance the game before, etc… but that’s probably his fault they missed.

We have 3 years worth of data. Not 6 games. Goal Caufield is and has always been elite at scoring. Kirby has never been.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

His tools are not of a top 6 center.
I still don't understand this one

 

[ReHabs]

His tools are not of a top 6 center.
I still don't understand this one

He has soft hands and good vision, knows where to go (but sometimes doesn’t go there)… he’s definitely a scoring line player and definitely not a defensive player. If anything it’s the toolbox that’s faulty not the lack of tools.

His shot is not a strength, I think we can agree.

It’s been six games in any case, not sure we can make any conclusions.

I’ve warmed up on the trade because it’s the kind of ambitious, medium risk that helps propel a team from one place to a much higher place.

Dach can very much play better and become a better player…and if the Habs are betting on themsleves to get him there I respect that a whole lot more than the evasiveness and lowering expectations tendencies of the previous administration.

My one caveat would be that if they fail to succeed with both the Slafkovsky and Dach moves then we are seriously set back. The cost of acquiring these two is one thing, but the opportunity cost spent on them versus other options is another and in addition the extended time losing/not winning will impact our overall growth (ie Extended Tank Syndrome; Buffalo).

One hot streak might be all he needs to turn the corner…

 

[Habs Halifax]

Generally like what Hughes is trying to do. His two biggest deals I haven’t been a fan of. Dach and Slaf, I hope they both work out. I think Romy was by far the more proven player at this point and
Dach isn’t a horse I would have bet on, but I believe the thought process was sound. Might turn out and he will look like a genius.

Only time will tell.

Dach/Romanov flip was interesting. I'm a big fan of both of them. Doubt one guy shines more than the other for what they do. Trade was made due to how strong we were on the LD side.

Slaf and the other guys in that top 5 mix are a wash IMO. They are projected to be 2nd tier talent.

 

[FerrisRox]

there is a reason why Chicago gave up on him and it isn’t because they thought he would hurt their tank.

If you know all the reasons why Chicago does stuff, can you explain the reason they "gave up" on Alex Debrincat as well?

 

[Paddy17]

Some people here should work for mainstream media. JC Lajoie hot take yesterday: "Kirby Dach is not a center, and if he makes it there, he will never be more than a third line center!".

All of those conclusions for a player he's seen for 7 games at the ripe old age of 21.

 

[ReHabs]

If you know all the reasons why Chicago does stuff, can you explain the reason they "gave up" on Alex Debrincat as well?

Debincat is 24 and due for a big raise, which Dach (21) was not. So both in terms of contract management and age profile Debrincat didn’t fit with any conceivable rebuild window - those three years make a big difference, especially considering the UFA hurdle at 26/27.

Dach, on the other hand, was shopped around and would’ve been retained had Chicago felt he was worth more than the 13th OA pick. But even in a rebuild you need NHLers, Chicago could’ve kept him and tried to raise his value if they thought he could take over for a on-his-last-legs Toews… but they didn’t. A reasonable inference is that they thought he needed a change of scenery.

By the way, all I’ve seen you post is complains about the discourse online. During Covid I caught myself venting online a lot, what helped me get out of that mental rut was to sort out my real life and then approach online with less sensitivity and vulnerability, and be more casual — and therefore respectful of others — about the whole thing. I never said I know “all the reasons Chicago does stuff”, you need to read comments and understand them before firing off a reply.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Some people here should work for mainstream media. JC Lajoie hot take yesterday: "Kirby Dach is not a center, and if he makes it there, he will never be more than a third line center!".

All of those conclusions for a player he's seen for 7 games at the ripe old age of 21.

You hit the nail on the head. Basically, it's a rollercoaster ride and some fans are dwelling on the 7 game point of that long up/down ride. It's a hockey mad market and you can easily fall in the short sample trap and that spins.

Trying to project Dach's future based on the Blackhawks sample and 7 games with the Habs.... How accurate do we think we will be? All I will say is it's cheap talk to focus on the negative parts cause probability says they usually don't reach their ceilings. You don't really get any credit for saying he will only be a 3C.

With both Dach and Slaf, we were wondering what kind of start they would have. Like if they would bust out right away with us. Would be nice but it didn't happen so now we are deflated and dwell on their low points in potential? How about we just let them play hockey and evaluate at 1/4 points of the season? 7 games in vs 20 games in. I'm sure there will be lots more information we get in between just that range right?

 

[Justin11]

Dach needs some consistency in his game. Hopefully this will come with the guidance of the coaching staff.
Tools are there, no doubt.

It would also be nice if he could get some more PP time and move up to the first wave of the PP.

 

[Habs Halifax]

His tools are not of a top 6 center.
I still don't understand this one

His tools and assets are of a top 6C. His performance is not up to par (not yet).

Romanov is not lighting it up with the Islanders. Basically the same guy he was last season. It's likely he becomes a decent 2nd pairing guy but he has lots of development to go yet. 4.73 giveaways/60 is not good. He's still coughing up the puck more than the average guy on D and he's also not producing offense so you would expect more sound D. Romanov's 11 giveaways is 4th most in the NHL so far. Our boy Guhle has the most at 14 but he's playing his first season. At least with Guhle, we got a higher takeaway/60 at 2.9 (Romanov is at 0.43). Guhles 7 takeaways ranks 4th best.

Dach may end up a fringe 2C and Romanov may end up a fringe top 4D. Meh... who cares. We traded from a strong point to a weak point on the depth chart. It's tracking that neither guy reaches their top potential. We will see.

 

[Scriptor]

Some people here should work for mainstream media. JC Lajoie hot take yesterday: "Kirby Dach is not a center, and if he makes it there, he will never be more than a third line center!".

All of those conclusions for a player he's seen for 7 games at the ripe old age of 21.

Lajoie, like Marinaro, are just instigators to get fans yapping. Both of them together on Lajoie's segment is a living hell.

And, seriously, WTF do either know about hockey?

 

[Scriptor]

Debincat is 24 and due for a big raise, which Dach (21) was not. So both in terms of contract management and age profile Debrincat didn’t fit with any conceivable rebuild window - those three years make a big difference, especially considering the UFA hurdle at 26/27.

Dach, on the other hand, was shopped around and would’ve been retained had Chicago felt he was worth more than the 13th OA pick. But even in a rebuild you need NHLers, Chicago could’ve kept him and tried to raise his value if they thought he could take over for a on-his-last-legs Toews… but they didn’t. A reasonable inference is that they thought he needed a change of scenery.

By the way, all I’ve seen you post is complains about the discourse online. During Covid I caught myself venting online a lot, what helped me get out of that mental rut was to sort out my real life and then approach online with less sensitivity and vulnerability, and be more casual — and therefore respectful of others — about the whole thing. I never said I know “all the reasons Chicago does stuff”, you need to read comments and understand them before firing off a reply.

If DeBrincat, at 24, didn't fit with any conceivable rebuild window, how long will CHI's rebuild be? 10 years, 15 years, half a decade?

Even if it was 5 years before CH became more of a contending team, a 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 year old DeBrincat could have been a valuable part of a winning roster for 5 years.

Also, you can't expect to return to being a contender in a reasonable time frame if you get rid of your most valuable players that are still 25 or under.

"Debrincat didn’t fit with any conceivable rebuild window - those three years make a big difference, especially considering the UFA hurdle at 26/27."

Unless you know that there was no headway to make with a long term contract, this UFA hurdle at 26/27 is irrelevant since you would be using the remaining RFA years to help lower the Cap hit over tome on a long term, 8-year contract, ideally.

DeBrincat was a proven scorer as a two-time 41G-scorer and one-time 32G-scorer in 5 years played. He also scored 28 goals (in his first season) and had an off year at 18Gs two years ago.

You don't get rid of such a player nonchalantly.

 

[ReHabs]

If DeBrincat, at 24, didn't fit with any conceivable rebuild window, how long will CHI's rebuild be? 10 years, 15 years, half a decade?

Even if it was 5 years before CH became more of a contending team, a 29, 30, 31, 32 and 33 year old DeBrincat could have been a valuable part of a winning roster for 5 years.

Also, you can't expect to return to being a contender in a reasonable time frame if you get rid of your most valuable players that are still 25 or under.

"Debrincat didn’t fit with any conceivable rebuild window - those three years make a big difference, especially considering the UFA hurdle at 26/27."

Unless you know that there was no headway to make with a long term contract, this UFA hurdle at 26/27 is irrelevant since you would be using the remaining RFA years to help lower the Cap hit over tome on a long term, 8-year contract, ideally.

DeBrincat was a proven scorer as a two-time 41G-scorer and one-time 32G-scorer in 5 years played. He also scored 28 goals (in his first season) and had an off year at 18Gs two years ago.

You don't get rid of such a player nonchalantly.

A rebuilding team set out to tank won’t buy UFA years and they won’t sign 8 year contracts. It isn’t just the age, but the contract too. It’s possible Debrincat wouldn’t have wanted to stay either and CHI thought they had the value they wanted at the time of trade.

I don’t need to explain why they sold Debrincat, as it isn’t related to the Habs at all, and you folks know very well that you can read up about the trade and see all the reasons clearly listed out. In hindsight you can see that it wasn’t a very controversial or oft-revisited trade — a rebuilding team got rid of a soon to be expensive asset.

Dach was three years younger and not an expensive asset, in fact 3.5m is the upper limit of what he should be paid anyway.

Debrincat was brought up as a counterpoint to my suggestion that CHI gave up on Dach. Well, you can read up about Dach all you want too — there is a reason why a lot of CHI fans were not particularly upset by the trade.

Much like Slafkovsky, Kotkaniemi, and Galchenyuk, Dach was rushed into the NHL, not his fault, but also he needed a change of scenery and CHI thought they’d get better outcomes with a mid-high 1st+3rd round pick.

 

[malcb33]

back in the day

I guess you haven't played hockey with actual NHL players before...

I understand we're all armchair critics here, but I seriously doubt your shot "back in the day" was at even Dach level. I get that the game seems so simple when watching it on TV, but even with their flaws, these guys are the absolute best in the world in their chosen field. When you step on the ice with them, even playing at 75% they put you in your place real quick.