Kirby Dach out of tournament

[Pavel Buchnevich]

What a stupid way to look at this.

How? An NHL’er coming down to a junior tournament got injured. That’s one of the two major reasons NHL teams wouldn’t want to release these players. Dach’s injury doesn’t prove that Lafreniere or Kakko would’ve gotten injured, but it shows that one of the major reasons not to release a player is a very valid concern. Players can absolutely get injured in what is a mostly meaningless tournament for these NHL’ers careers.

 

[snipes]

How? An NHL’er coming down to a junior tournament got injured. That’s one of the two major reasons NHL teams wouldn’t want to release these players. Dach’s injury doesn’t prove that Lafreniere or Kakko would’ve gotten injured, but it shows that one of the major reasons not to release a player is a very valid concern. Players can absolutely get injured in what is a mostly meaningless tournament for these NHL’ers careers.

Alternatively, they could have also went and had a good tournament like Bergeron did after an NHL season that definitely helped his career. It’s a meaningful best on best or as close to best on best as you can get for this age group.

Hindsight is 20/20, this was a routine play that could have happened in a team scrimmage. It’s part of hockey.

If anything, given how Kakko was way over his head last season maybe some tune up games would have been good.

Dach is better than both Hughes and Kakko anyways, sucks to lose him but that’s the nature of hockey, injuries happen.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Then all teams should tell their CHL prospects, Euro prospects, NCAA prospects and AHL prospects to sit out all games and just wrap themselves in bubble wrap until the team suits them up for real NHL games.

That’s a disingenuous argument. The discussion is about players who directly impact wins and losses this season, not all players within the organization. I’m sure you know the difference to organizations between NHL’ers getting injured and players somewhere else in the organizational pyramid getting injured.

 

[Static]

How? An NHL’er coming down to a junior tournament got injured. That’s one of the two major reasons NHL teams wouldn’t want to release these players. Dach’s injury doesn’t prove that Lafreniere or Kakko would’ve gotten injured, but it shows that one of the major reasons not to release a player is a very valid concern. Players can absolutely get injured in what is a mostly meaningless tournament for these NHL’ers careers.

"Meaningless" is not how I would describe playing for country. Most players will never have that opportunity.

There are ambitions in hockey that do not include the NHL.

 

[Static]

So he did break his wrist. Hopefully he has a quick recovery.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Alternatively, they could have also went and had a good tournament like Bergeron did after an NHL season that definitely helped his career. It’s a meaningful best on best or as close to best on best as you can get for this age group.

Hindsight is 20/20, this was a routine play that could have happened in a team scrimmage. It’s part of hockey.

If anything, given how Kakko was way over his head last season maybe some tune up games would have been good.

Dach is better than both Hughes and Kakko anyways, sucks to lose him but that’s the nature of hockey, injuries happen.

It’s highly questionable that he’s better than those guys or the consensus best player, but that’s besides the point.

John Davidson said he needed two NHL’ers ready for training camp. One of the main reasons he wouldn’t want them to participate reared it’s ugly head with a different player. If they subscribed to your theory that it was a net win for these two to play in this tournament they would’ve. I said let them play as long as they don’t miss a day of training camp. I agree they could’ve benefited prior to the announcement of when the season would start, but I suspect the Rangers are pleased with their decision. Are the Hawks? Maybe not in hindsight.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

"Meaningless" is not how I would describe playing for country. Most players will never have that opportunity.

There are ambitions in hockey that do not include the NHL.

Jack Hughes was given the choice and declined to play. He’s never won any of these big junior tournaments, unless you want to count the WHC17. I think NHL’ers look at it differently than fans.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Jack Hughes was given the choice and declined to play. He’s never won any of these big junior tournaments, unless you want to count the WHC17. I think NHL’ers look at it differently than fans.

Some do and some don't. There isn't some group think where all NHL players don't care about the tournament anymore....though it is probably more common. Dach is an example of someone who openly and plainly made it clear he wanted to be at this tournament when I think everyone would have fully understood if he decided not to just like Hughes did.

 

[57special]

So, the Hawks shouldn't have lent Dach to Team Canada because he might get an injury... do the Hawks have some magic pill for their players that prevent them from getting injured while playing in the much bigger, faster, and tougher NHL?

 

[bigdog16]

Jack Hughes was given the choice and declined to play. He’s never won any of these big junior tournaments, unless you want to count the WHC17. I think NHL’ers look at it differently than fans.

Could also be an American/Canadian thing. Americans don't look at these international tournaments with the same magnitude as Canadians.

 

[Static]

Jack Hughes was given the choice and declined to play. He’s never won any of these big junior tournaments, unless you want to count the WHC17. I think NHL’ers look at it differently than fans.

And dach specifically asked to play in the tournament. It obviously isn't meaningless to the players who want to be there.

 

[ORRFForever]

Needless to say, it is unfortunate. He gave up a lot for Canada and for him to get hurt in such a freakish way, it`s awful.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Fluke play led to a injury. It sucks out loud but oh well

 

[Mighty Makar]

That sucks! Wishing him a speedy recovery. Go Canada Go!

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Could also be an American/Canadian thing. Americans don't look at these international tournaments with the same magnitude as Canadians.

Come on man, all six of us are fanatical!

 

[snowkiddin]

Dach looked horrible in that game so it’s a bummer we won’t get to see what he can really do in this tournament.

 

[Odie Cleghorn]

So, the Hawks shouldn't have lent Dach to Team Canada because he might get an injury... do the Hawks have some magic pill for their players that prevent them from getting injured while playing in the much bigger, faster, and tougher NHL?

No, but there fans may not be happy to watch a team missing a player who got hurt playing in a game that had nothing to do with the Hawks.

 

[kp61c]

Our chances for Gold stay the same. Too many really good players. It like having a thick one inch of icing on a cupcake, and an 1/8th of an inch is licked off by your dog. Sure, you’re pissed at first, but the cupcake still has lots of icing left, and will taste great.

You will eat that cupcake after your dog slobbered all over it?

 

[Dr Quincy]

That’s a disingenuous argument. The discussion is about players who directly impact wins and losses this season, not all players within the organization. I’m sure you know the difference to organizations between NHL’ers getting injured and players somewhere else in the organizational pyramid getting injured.

It's not disingenuous at all. Is the concern really about CHI's playoff chances here? Dach or no Dach that wasn't happening and if playoffs were a serious consideration the team wouldn't be going into the season with a giant hole (pun intended) in net. So what fans are upset about is a year of development. Granted that year of development was going to be at the NHL level, but a year of development is a year of development. An injury could happen in training camp, in offseason workouts, in jr games, etc. CHI knew the risk here and they could have told Dach it's a no go.

Obviously if they knew the risk and were ok with it then there's really no complaint here. Stuff happens.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Some do and some don't. There isn't some group think where all NHL players don't care about the tournament anymore....though it is probably more common. Dach is an example of someone who openly and plainly made it clear he wanted to be at this tournament when I think everyone would have fully understood if he decided not to just like Hughes did.

And dach specifically asked to play in the tournament. It obviously isn't meaningless to the players who want to be there.

I think Dach is different in that he had never played in this tournament. Hughes played once, and lost in the final. Kakko played once and won. Lafreniere played twice and won once. I think for the most part these players feel done with the WJC once they have regular NHL spots, especially if they have already played in the tournament and have had success.

 

[Dr Quincy]

It’s highly questionable that he’s better than those guys or the consensus best player, but that’s besides the point.

John Davidson said he needed two NHL’ers ready for training camp. One of the main reasons he wouldn’t want them to participate reared it’s ugly head with a different player. If they subscribed to your theory that it was a net win for these two to play in this tournament they would’ve. I said let them play as long as they don’t miss a day of training camp. I agree they could’ve benefited prior to the announcement of when the season would start, but I suspect the Rangers are pleased with their decision. Are the Hawks? Maybe not in hindsight.

I'd say more harm was done to player development when the Rangers decided some of their high pick prospects were ready for the NHL when they clearly weren't than was done to Dach's long term future. So whatever John Davidson has "said" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It's not disingenuous at all. Is the concern really about CHI's playoff chances here? Dach or no Dach that wasn't happening and if playoffs were a serious consideration the team wouldn't be going into the season with a giant hole (pun intended) in net. So what fans are upset about is a year of development. Granted that year of development was going to be at the NHL level, but a year of development is a year of development. An injury could happen in training camp, in offseason workouts, in jr games, etc. CHI knew the risk here and they could have told Dach it's a no go.

Obviously if they knew the risk and were ok with it then there's really no complaint here. Stuff happens.

The person you responded to was commenting on the perspective from the Rangers not letting Lafreniere play as opposed to the one from the Hawks letting Dach play. It certainly seemed like you were disagreeing with his take on Lafreniere, not Dach.

And even if you are talking about Dach, being a bad team doesn't mean you want one of your most important players for the future missing any significant number of games this season. There are other ways to tank. I think if you're the Hawks, it's a lot worse for this to happen to players like Dach or Boqvist than Toews or Kane.

I don't think the risk of injury is big enough to not let players play. I would be more worried about them missing training camp due to the NHL schedule. That was my concern with letting Kakko and Lafreniere play at this tournament, but undoubtedly there's a greater risk to injury playing in this tournament than offseason training or NHL training camp. I don't even know how thats arguable. If teams think there's no real benefit for the players and there's enough of a risk (albeit a small risk) of injury, thats their call. The fact that Dach got injured probably has Chicago questioning their decision, and NYR and NJD being pleased with their decision.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Damn well that sucks. I blame Ryan Whitney.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd say more harm was done to player development when the Rangers decided some of their high pick prospects were ready for the NHL when they clearly weren't than was done to Dach's long term future. So whatever John Davidson has "said" needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

We can debate the merits of the job Davidson is doing elsewhere. I personally think he's wildly overrated, and I think you are right that they've botched some development under Davidson and Gorton, but that doesn't mean there's not a loss to Dach's long-term development from this. If he misses 6-8 weeks, he's missing probably 15-20 NHL games. It's not hugely damaging to his career, but it's not insignificant.

 

[Fatass]

You will eat that cupcake after your dog slobbered all over it?

Depends what he was licking immediately before licking said cupcake.