Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[OMG67]

Short answer; yes, the people of Kingston seem to have no real attachment to the Frontenacs.
London is an anomaly. So is Flint I think. A far as I know the owner pretty much provided a blank cheque, but the team probably does not attract 3500 on average. I doubt Barrie is a whole lot different than Kingston. Are they averaging 4000 with a top contender? I’ll guess the (senior) Burkes were business savvy and cozied up to the casino to sell tickets as comps.

Longer term franchises like SBY, SSM, PBO, …had a market and a bond and history established before 20 NHL, NFL, NBA games each per week very cheap consumed all of the sports fan time.
In the ‘70s, if you offered a guy tickets to an OHA game he would drive 30 minutes in a blizzard without seatbelts and an open bottle of liquor to see the game. Now there are two generations that would not give up NFL Sunday to take their kids to a game if it was free and transportation provided. The only chance of infecting their kids with the bug is if they see ~10 games with minor hockey teams and school days for at least a few years. My girl sees a steelheads and/or a marlies game near weekly because she had a seat at wolves games from 4-17.

The wolves started when numerous NHL players, some future HOF came out of NE ON and played for the wolves. No matter how broken things have seemed, one tid bit of positive news sells 1000 tickets in a day because the wolves are already part of the fabric of the city.

With that logic, Major Junior Hockey is doomed to die. Or, at minimum, cannot expand and would likely contract over time. It would mean new franchises are impossible to build because there is no legacy to rely on. The ones that work are anomaly’s. The rest that work are legacy franchises. At best a new(er) franchise is 3500 average on a good year.

I’m not even trying to be a dick. That is literally what you are saying.

If that is the case, doing the absolute minimum and cutting costs is the best way forward for most franchises. Adding revenue is near impossible with ticket sales unless it is a crazy competitive year where they go deep into the playoffs.

So, Springer is actually a genius. He averages between 3100 and 3300 per game and does virtually nothing and spends virtually nothing. Other franchises int he same situation should follow suit.

EDIT: To be honest, I am not saying you are wrong, either. You may very well be right. But, if you are right, I think it needs to be expanded league wide and apply it to new franchises (and existing franchises). All the same criteria you use to justify Kingston carries over across the league.

 

[leafs4life94]

With that logic, Major Junior Hockey is doomed to die. Or, at minimum, cannot expand and would likely contract over time. It would mean new franchises are impossible to build because there is no legacy to rely on. The ones that work are anomaly’s. The rest that work are legacy franchises. At best a new(er) franchise is 3500 average on a good year.

I’m not even trying to be a dick. That is literally what you are saying.

If that is the case, doing the absolute minimum and cutting costs is the best way forward for most franchises. Adding revenue is near impossible with ticket sales unless it is a crazy competitive year where they go deep into the playoffs.

So, Springer is actually a genius. He averages between 3100 and 3300 per game and does virtually nothing and spends virtually nothing. Other franchises int he same situation should follow suit.

EDIT: To be honest, I am not saying you are wrong, either. You may very well be right. But, if you are right, I think it needs to be expanded league wide and apply it to new franchises (and existing franchises). All the same criteria you use to justify Kingston carries over across the league.

I think the ultimate truth is that everyone shoulders a little bit of the blame - the general population doesn't care/have a natural interest in the Fronts, the on ice product hasn't given them a reason to care, and ownership hasn't put any effort in making the general population care.

The biggest hockey event is the RMC-Queens game and that's because a) it's a very long-standing tradition, and b) current students and alumni will go to support it.

It all comes down to how do you make people care - and that's one of those questions that I don't have the answer to.

 

[leafs4life94]

Putting aside the ownership talk - obviously there's some smoke around Gibson but they seem fixated on getting '07 bodies, of which Kingston has one of value - and as far as I'm concerned he should not be touched.

I wonder if they'd be interested in Williamson + picks. He is an '06 but he's someone that could be back as an OA so it could fit their window.

Looking at the Jorian Donovan trade last year as the closest comparable, it was 2 2's, 4 3's and 2 4's - Kingston easily has that expendable so if they insist on bodies back, they could flip those picks to another team and get an equivalent body back - from what I've read i think Kitchener has a surplus of D they could target.

Considering Frasca got 2 2's, 2 3's and a 4, and Hopkins is a substantially better player for and extra half year, Hopkins value is at least close to the Donovan trade value, if not higher.

 

[frontsfan67]

Putting aside the ownership talk - obviously there's some smoke around Gibson but they seem fixated on getting '07 bodies, of which Kingston has one of value - and as far as I'm concerned he should not be touched.

I wonder if they'd be interested in Williamson + picks. He is an '06 but he's someone that could be back as an OA so it could fit their window.

Looking at the Jorian Donovan trade last year as the closest comparable, it was 2 2's, 4 3's and 2 4's - Kingston easily has that expendable so if they insist on bodies back, they could flip those picks to another team and get an equivalent body back - from what I've read i think Kitchener has a surplus of D they could target.

Considering Frasca got 2 2's, 2 3's and a 4, and Hopkins is a substantially better player for and extra half year, Hopkins value is at least close to the Donovan trade value, if not higher.

If Soo isn’t open to Velliaris/moore and weir and Kingston really wants Gibson and wants to keep Hopkins then Williamson is that guy for sure.

If the Soo is asking for a kings ransom though me personally I wouldn’t go for that for a 1 year player. And DEFINITELY NOT trading Hopkins- I don’t care if Allard would be involved with that or not I am not giving up Hopkins.

Williamson is ready for more responsibility and would get that in the Soo as an 18 year old this year. Then next year as a 19 year old will be even better, first pairing for sure maybe even gets an invite to an nhl camp. Year after as a 20 year old should be an “OHL all star level” dman. I expect big things out of the kid and maybe the soo would be open to that with a guy like weir who had some potential his rookie year but clearly needs a change in scenery. (And picks)

They’re gonna be building next year anyways around their 07 group and could use some good 06’s for OA’s for when in 2026-27 they are competing for the west. Williamson could be their guy.

 

[Houndzfan20]

If Soo isn’t open to Velliaris/moore and weir and Kingston really wants Gibson and wants to keep Hopkins then Williamson is that guy for sure.

If the Soo is asking for a kings ransom though me personally I wouldn’t go for that for a 1 year player. And DEFINITELY NOT trading Hopkins- I don’t care if Allard would be involved with that or not I am not giving up Hopkins.

Williamson is ready for more responsibility and would get that in the Soo as an 18 year old this year. Then next year as a 19 year old will be even better, first pairing for sure maybe even gets an invite to an nhl camp. Year after as a 20 year old should be an “OHL all star level” dman. I expect big things out of the kid and maybe the soo would be open to that with a guy like weir who had some potential his rookie year but clearly needs a change in scenery. (And picks)

They’re gonna be building next year anyways around their 07 group and could use some good 06’s for OA’s for when in 2026-27 they are competing for the west. Williamson could be their guy.

We don't really need a defenseman tho. We are stocked at d.

It would have to be a forward. Imo anyway

 

[frontsfan67]

We don't really need a defenseman tho. We are stocked at d.

It would have to be a forward. Imo anyway

Interesting. Not sure it gets done then. Weir doesn’t hold much value I assume and you probably wouldn’t want an 05 like McNamara in a trade

 

[dirty12]

Interesting. Not sure it gets done then. Weir doesn’t hold much value I assume and you probably wouldn’t want an 05 like McNamara in a trade

packing it in if moving a piece like McNamara imo

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

packing it in if moving a piece like McNamara imo

Why he doesn't really move the needle all that much. While he does have spurts of decent play, he often is the place where plays go to die, and his teammates are not fans of him by any means.

 

[dirty12]

Why he doesn't really move the needle all that much. While he does have spurts of decent play, he often is the place where plays go to die, and his teammates are not fans of him by any means.

I've only seen a few full Kingston games this season and maybe parts of his finest moments, Idk. But what I've seen is McNamara playing the critical minutes well with a lead or trailing.

 

[Fischhaber]

Putting aside the ownership talk - obviously there's some smoke around Gibson but they seem fixated on getting '07 bodies, of which Kingston has one of value - and as far as I'm concerned he should not be touched.

I wonder if they'd be interested in Williamson + picks. He is an '06 but he's someone that could be back as an OA so it could fit their window.

Looking at the Jorian Donovan trade last year as the closest comparable, it was 2 2's, 4 3's and 2 4's - Kingston easily has that expendable so if they insist on bodies back, they could flip those picks to another team and get an equivalent body back - from what I've read i think Kitchener has a surplus of D they could target.

Considering Frasca got 2 2's, 2 3's and a 4, and Hopkins is a substantially better player for and extra half year, Hopkins value is at least close to the Donovan trade value, if not higher.

The Hounds biggest need is at forward and one would expect that they already have an offer of Brady Smith and/or Logan Hawery + several picks in their back pocket.

After recently signing a big NCAA commitment in Chase Reid, I'm almost 100% sure they won't add another defenseman. They have 9 on the roster now.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Hopkins will not be included in any deal Fronts brass has been very clear on that and it has halted a lot of trade discussions.

I highly doubt Mcnamara goes anywhere either with the relationship between Troy and his Dad.

For them to upgrade goaltending it would have to be Vaccari that goes and he doesn't have much value imo.
No one is going to take on Lalonde at this point. -If there was a market for OA goalies Stuszka wouldn't be in the BCHL right now and Colin Mckenzie would have been traded by now.

Weir, Velliaris, Moore, Clark, Pickell, Kelly, Buttar and even Dervin are guys names i have heard come up through the season,.

 

[dirty12]

Hopkins will not be included in any deal Fronts brass has been very clear on that and it has halted a lot of trade discussions.

I highly doubt Mcnamara goes anywhere either with the relationship between Troy and his Dad.

For them to upgrade goaltending it would have to be Vaccari that goes and he doesn't have much value imo.
No one is going to take on Lalonde at this point. -If there was a market for OA goalies Stuszka wouldn't be in the BCHL right now and Colin Mckenzie would have been traded by now.

Weir, Velliaris, Moore, Clark, Pickell, Kelly, Buttar and even Dervin are guys names i have heard come up through the season,.

a couple of those listed are '08s; are two-part trades being discussed?