Kingston Frontenacs 2024-25 Season Thread, Part I

[dirty12]

Why would Kingston not be able to decide between making a championship run next year via this year?

The fact that they traded away Thibodeau and Franca for picks should tell you they’re already made their decision.

A look at what Barrie, Brampton, and Niagara return compared to Kingston should tell you it will be no easier for Kingston next season. I think Brampton and Niagara should be better next season.

 

[PuckLucker]

Let’s take a deeper look beyond just the number.

Ben Pickell was picked off the scrap heap this year and he won’t be missed in the slightest. A back up goalie like Vaccari is easily replaceable. Little Cal Uens also won’t be a significant loss.

Three of them will be back as OAs - - Soto and McGowan are near certainties to return and they’ll be very good OAs. Uronen still hasn’t been signed yet and I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance that he’s back as the third OA. Failing that, McNamara would be the third OA, but I’d look to move him this year because there’ll be better OAs available to be had next year.

That leaves three significant losses: Burns, Pieniniemi and Miedema.

Here’s the issue for Kingston - - none of those three compare to the level of Cal Ritchie, Easton Cowan, Carson Rehkopf, Denver Barkey or Oliver Bonk. They’re nowhere close to the talent that’s needed from 19yr olds on a championship contender.

This is one of those “difficult” decisions teams have to make between setting themselves up for sustained future success or wasting what they have by trying to make a delusional run.

Very similar to the decision London had to make with Robert Thomas. Obviously none of the aforementioned three are remotely comparable to Thomas, but dealing at least two of them would amount to a similar net return. London made the correct decision and that’s why they’re the CHL’s model franchise.

The delusional run already took place with the same staff and most of the core players last season when they added at the trade deadline and the team was in 7th place and chose not to move Ludwindski.
(BTW - Ludwinski has played 11 AHL games for Rockford and has 1 assist)

I agree with everything you are saying regarding the situation Kingston is in (minus Barkey being considered an elite 19 yo). 16 pts in 16 games with 9 pts being on the PP

I have a gut feeling that they will push and make additions for a couple of reasons:
- Roster is loaded with 19 yo
- Coach only trusts older players
- Available draft picks to use after moving Thibadeau & Frasca

Giving the A to #9 locks him in as an OA for this season and the Fronts staff will stay loyal. He stands to have more points this year then all 3 previous years combined from playing on a decent line.
My bet is they target an 18/19 year old Fwd that they know will be around both this year and next.
- Luchanko
- Romani
- Procyszyn

 

[zaluty]

Enough speculation make a trade lol.

 

[leafs4life94]

Let’s take a deeper look beyond just the number.

Ben Pickell was picked off the scrap heap this year and he won’t be missed in the slightest. A back up goalie like Vaccari is easily replaceable. Little Cal Uens also won’t be a significant loss.

Three of them will be back as OAs - - Soto and McGowan are near certainties to return and they’ll be very good OAs. Uronen still hasn’t been signed yet and I’d say it’s a 50/50 chance that he’s back as the third OA. Failing that, McNamara would be the third OA, but I’d look to move him this year because there’ll be better OAs available to be had next year.

That leaves three significant losses: Burns, Pieniniemi and Miedema.

Here’s the issue for Kingston - - none of those three compare to the level of Cal Ritchie, Easton Cowan, Carson Rehkopf, Denver Barkey or Oliver Bonk. They’re nowhere close to the talent that’s needed from 19yr olds on a championship contender.

This is one of those “difficult” decisions teams have to make between setting themselves up for sustained future success or wasting what they have by trying to make a delusional run.

Very similar to the decision London had to make with Robert Thomas. Obviously none of the aforementioned three are remotely comparable to Thomas, but dealing at least two of them would amount to a similar net return. London made the correct decision and that’s why they’re the CHL’s model franchise.

The issue is the sheer volume of players they have to replace. They'll be losing 3 D including their top 2, one if not both goalies (I wouldn't be surprised if they keep Vaccari around to start the year), and 5-6 of their top 9.

They have 3 '06s on the entire roster, with one being a 4th liner. They have 4 '07s on the roster, with only Hopkins being a true contributor. They have 4 signed '08 forwards who will be thrust into roles they may not be ready for. They'll have 2 1st rounders but you can't rely on 16 year olds to contribute.

Having 3 higher end OAs doesn't make up for the sheer lack of depth they'll have next year.

I don't see why Uronen would be back as an OA - why play for nothing here when he could go home and play pro. There's a much better chance Miedema is back.

Kingston going for it next year makes absolutely no sense, never has and never will.

 

[frontsfan67]

WAY too early Fronts Projected roster 2025-2026


Forwards:

1 Battaglia | Hopkins | Soto OA

2 Buttar | Dervin*/Import | Kelly/Weir

3 Clark/Shewfelt | FRP/Import/McCuaig | Kelly/Weir

4 Shewfelt/Clark | FRP/Import/McQuaig | 2025 3rd rounder?

Defence:

1 McGowan OA | Williamson

2 Velliaris/Import | FRP/Moore

3 Schmidt/Velliaris/Import | FRP/Moore

Traded or gone from team- McNamara, Miedema(AHL or NCAA or Trade- don’t see him here next year), Uronen, Pieniniemi, Burns, Guindon, Uens, Lalonde, Heyes, Pickell

That is 10 (TEN) guys from the team this year. And to top it off- guys like Battaglia, Soto will get a lot of interest next year I am sure. So second half of the season we’re probably playing without those guys. Could also be playing without McGowan as some team may want him in their top 4 next year.

Dervin I think comes here next year. I think he gets drafted this year in the NHL and they tell him to come here for a year and get minutes on a depleted roster- playing every situation, before going NCAA in 2026/27

Also too hard to predict trades that we get here but I’d like to see Henry Mews here (but I don’t think it gets done)


Goalies

1- Vaccari OA (can’t leave Betts out to dry in his rookie season, have to give him SOME support)
2- Betts

 

[ScoutLife4]

I'd personally consider anyone not signed or already an OA this season to be potentially here until they are not.
If you are going to leave an OA out for next season i'd make it UENS.

 

[leafs4life94]

May have missed it being posted but looks like Manza got into some games with Chilliwack so it's probably safe to fully cross him off the unlikely list.

 

[Donnie740]

The delusional run already took place with the same staff and most of the core players last season when they added at the trade deadline and the team was in 7th place and chose not to move Ludwindski.
(BTW - Ludwinski has played 11 AHL games for Rockford and has 1 assist)

I agree with everything you are saying regarding the situation Kingston is in (minus Barkey being considered an elite 19 yo). 16 pts in 16 games with 9 pts being on the PP

Last year, I was one of the only people imploring Kingston to trade Ludwinski. Ironically, I’m one of the only people pushing for Kingston to deal some of their 19yr olds.

Keeping Ludwinski around last year was a colossal mistake. Keeping all of their 19yr olds around will be a repeat.

There’s no question that Kingston has a good team this year - - but they’re not good enough to get past the great teams. Even if they trade away most of their top picks, there’s not enough high end talent available to match London, Oshawa or Barrie.

Trading Burns, Pieniniemi, Miedema and Uronen is going to get some excellent 2007 and 2008 players in addition to a ton of high draft picks.

Keep those four and Kingston MIGHT get to the conference finals this year and then be a complete dumpster fire for the next two years.

Trade those four to bring back young players like Parker Vaughan, Jack Nesbitt, Owen Griffin and Brooks Rogowski. Then with the slew of draft picks, bring in guys like Luca Romano and Beckett Sennecke next year.

And Kingston would STILL have additional top picks regaining for the 2026, 2027 and 2028 drafts. Not to mention the two 1st round picks they’ll have in the 2025 draft.

That’s how you build a sustainable championship contender.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Just when you think it can’t get any worse…..

 

[leafs4life94]

Just when you think it can’t get any worse…..

Ugh not the vague tease lol.... Some kind of vague hint?

 

[Generalsupdates]

Last year, I was one of the only people imploring Kingston to trade Ludwinski.

I think every single person I saw talk about KGN last year said this, and was shocked they instead decided to buy, including KGN fans.

Trading Burns, Pieniniemi, Miedema and Uronen is going to get some excellent 2007 and 2008 players in addition to a ton of high draft picks.

Can't see any of those players netting a 2008 born in return.

Trade those four to bring back young players like Parker Vaughan, Jack Nesbitt, Owen Griffin and Brooks Rogowski.

Can't see any of Vaughan, Nesbitt or Griffin being on the table for those unless you're packaging 2-3 of them together. Very few teams have open import spots so Pieniniemi and Uronen's value would be far lower than if they weren't an import. And Rogowski is physically not allowed to be traded this season as he's an '08 non 1st round pick

 

[frontsfan67]

May have missed it being posted but looks like Manza got into some games with Chilliwack so it's probably safe to fully cross him off the unlikely list.

Yeah I was looking at that when making the lineup thing- 2 games 1 point.

Last year, I was one of the only people imploring Kingston to trade Ludwinski. Ironically, I’m one of the only people pushing for Kingston to deal some of their 19yr olds.

Keeping Ludwinski around last year was a colossal mistake. Keeping all of their 19yr olds around will be a repeat.

There’s no question that Kingston has a good team this year - - but they’re not good enough to get past the great teams. Even if they trade away most of their top picks, there’s not enough high end talent available to match London, Oshawa or Barrie.

Trading Burns, Pieniniemi, Miedema and Uronen is going to get some excellent 2007 and 2008 players in addition to a ton of high draft picks.

Keep those four and Kingston MIGHT get to the conference finals this year and then be a complete dumpster fire for the next two years.

Trade those four to bring back young players like Parker Vaughan, Jack Nesbitt, Owen Griffin and Brooks Rogowski. Then with the slew of draft picks, bring in guys like Luca Romano and Beckett Sennecke next year.

And Kingston would STILL have additional top picks regaining for the 2026, 2027 and 2028 drafts. Not to mention the two 1st round picks they’ll have in the 2025 draft.

That’s how you build a sustainable championship contender.

Donnie. We live in kingston we do stuff that doesn’t make sense. I have been pushing the last 2 years to sell all these guys and start new- unfortunately we don’t make these moves and cooper does lol I don’t see the point of a team that finishes middle of the conference(that’s where I think we finish) either do a light sell or some major buys but don’t stay the same

 

[frontsfan67]

Can't see any of Vaughan, Nesbitt or Griffin being on the table for those unless you're packaging 2-3 of them together. Very few teams have open import spots so Pieniniemi and Uronen's value would be far lower than if they weren't an import. And Rogowski is physically not allowed to be traded this season as he's an '08 non 1st round pick

Would you do griffin and a few picks for Battaglia? This trade won’t happen but I’m interested about what you think of this.

If you’re Windsor going for it next year but still competitive this year I think that’s a move they should look at. Nesbitt has a lot of upside. Only thing is- how similar is he to Miedema lol could be a repeat.

Because Uronen and pieniniemi mean more to Kingston than what we would get in return I think it would be smarter for the fronts to hold onto them and maybe trade guys like Miedema/battaglia/burns- again though. I’m not managing the team.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Pie down to third line

 

[frontsfan67]

Pie down to third line

Is he playing sick or injured or is Mann just trying out some different line combos vs a crappy team

 

[ScoutLife4]

Is he playing sick or injured or is Mann just trying out some different line combos vs a crappy team

Not sure to be honest i meant to ask Troy but we got talking about Uronen and griffen suspensions.

There is a video that the NHL made this week that’s circulating through the nhl/ahl/chl regarding blatant head shots and clarification and they used the Griffin headshot on McGowan as one of the examples of a check to the head.

 

[frontsfan67]

Not sure to be honest i meant to ask Troy but we got talking about Uronen and griffen suspensions.

There is a video that the NHL made this week that’s circulating through the nhl/ahl/chl regarding blatant head shots and clarification and they used the Griffin headshot on McGowan as one of the examples of a check to the head.

Shoutout maleek! Takin’ it like a champ

 

[ScoutLife4]

This warmup mix is the biggest hack job I have ever heard at an arena

 

[Donnie740]

Donnie. We live in kingston we do stuff that doesn’t make sense. I have been pushing the last 2 years to sell all these guys and start new- unfortunately we don’t make these moves and cooper does lol I don’t see the point of a team that finishes middle of the conference(that’s where I think we finish) either do a light sell or some major buys but don’t stay the same

A light sell would definitely be better than a major buy for Kingston but given the situation, that doesn’t make much sense either. The. Again, I’m looking at it objectively and thinking it through logically.

Windsor is a legit contender this year but they need help on defence. Of course they’d deal Nesbitt plus a haul of picks for Pieniniemi and Miedema.

Oshawa is in desperate need of toughness and a reliable defenceman - - Burns would be an ideal fit. Considering how badly the Generals brain trust overpaid for Barlow, I have no doubt they’d be willing to give up Owen Griffin plus whatever few picks of value they have remaining for Burns. Especially if Kingston added McNamara as a replacement for Griffin.

Trading Jake Battaglia for Owen Griffin plus picks would be a catastrophic mistake for Kingston. Battaglia is a legit star and by far the best player Kingston has. Plus, you know he’ll definitely be returning to junior next year.

 

[beastintheeast]

This warmup mix is the biggest hack job I have ever heard at an arena

When I was doing music I found that the players had their own ideas about what they wanted. The only restriction that we put on it was that it had to pass the PG test as well as front office.

LOL with Galbraith it was always a challenge and they mixxed it up

 

[beastintheeast]

A light sell would definitely be better than a major buy for Kingston but given the situation, that doesn’t make much sense either. The. Again, I’m looking at it objectively and thinking it through logically.

Windsor is a legit contender this year but they need help on defence. Of course they’d deal Nesbitt plus a haul of picks for Pieniniemi and Miedema.

Oshawa is in desperate need of toughness and a reliable defenceman - - Burns would be an ideal fit. Considering how badly the Generals brain trust overpaid for Barlow, I have no doubt they’d be willing to give up Owen Griffin plus whatever few picks of value they have remaining for Burns. Especially if Kingston added McNamara as a replacement for Griffin.

Trading Jake Battaglia for Owen Griffin plus picks would be a catastrophic mistake for Kingston. Battaglia is a legit star and by far the best player Kingston has. Plus, you know he’ll definitely be returning to junior next year.

You are going to need Battaglia next year. His value will be higher then.
I think Cooper needs to see what the other teams are going to leave him to deal with. If he cant get enough to move the needle then I agree a soft sell of either Burns or Pienemi would not be a bad idea.

Also moving Miedema would not be too bad BUT

It all depends on the return you are getting picks is not enough

 

[frontsfan67]

The way I’m thinking. Even if they buy or sell I still don’t see them getting past Oshawa, Barrie or Brantford for starters in a 7 game series.

Brampton I have 0 idea what is wrong with them but we smoked them in kingston so I won’t write that one off but odds are we would lose. with this I’d prefer a light sell.

No point in playing 4-7 extra games just to lose regardless. Would be better to look at the future instead. Same with trying your best to get 7th/8th and inevitably get smoked in the first round vs the 1 or 2 seed. Would be better in that case to miss and then go into the draw of 4 for the first overall pick IMO.

 

[OMG67]

The way I’m thinking. Even if they buy or sell I still don’t see them getting past Oshawa, Barrie or Brantford for starters in a 7 game series.

Brampton I have 0 idea what is wrong with them but we smoked them in kingston so I won’t write that one off but odds are we would lose. with this I’d prefer a light sell.

No point in playing 4-7 extra games just to lose regardless. Would be better to look at the future instead. Same with trying your best to get 7th/8th and inevitably get smoked in the first round vs the 1 or 2 seed. Would be better in that case to miss and then go into the draw of 4 for the first overall pick IMO.

I said in the offseason, give it until Christmas. See what the core foundation of the team has. Then make a strategic decision. It is still too early for teams like Kingston and Brantford to make a real decision on this season.

Clearly Barrie is the team to beat today but that could change as the arms race heats up.

Niagara matured really quick. I have to give credit to @dirty12 since he called it. The defence they added is supporting the young forward group. I didn’t think he young players would stand out this quickly but they have. They play very quickly. They really remind me a lot of the Ottawa teams we saw in 2019, 2020, and 2023. Really fast paced breakout and they pressure well at their blueline and force turnovers. A really fun team to watch to be honest. They may be troublesome in round one with the pace they play.

Brampton needs a real captain. They lack a player that really drives the team forward. I think Leskovar being out of the lineup is having the same effect on them as Spearing out of the lineup for Peterborough.

Kingston has scoring depth up front but lack that true #1 line that scares teams. If they can add that top pairing D-Man, dump Burns to the 2nd pairing with McGowan and Williamson to the 3rd pairing, I think that will be super helpful. I really don’t think adding a depth forward helps. If you add a forward, it needs to be elite to make a difference.

 

[beastintheeast]

The way I’m thinking. Even if they buy or sell I still don’t see them getting past Oshawa, Barrie or Brantford for starters in a 7 game series.

But if you can get the 4th or 5th, then you have a chance for those extra games, and that is what Agnew wants.

Brampton, I have no idea what is wrong with them, but we smoked them in Kingston, so I won’t write that one off. However, odds are we would lose. With this, I’d prefer a light sell.

The idea of being a buyer or seller is going to be dependent on the top 8 teams in the league other than Kingston and what they are going to pay for rental fees.

Kingston has the basis of a good mid pack team. If you can not get the impact center for your first line, then I would suggest that you are then looking at Cooper, listening to offers for PIE, Burns and or Miedema.

I would think that Pie would generate the most talk and the highest return. If you could get a 17 year old no matter the position and reasonable picks it would be worth looking at.

No point in playing 4-7 extra games just to lose regardless. Would be better to look at the future instead. Same with trying your best to get 7th/8th and inevitably get smoked in the first round vs the 1 or 2 seed. Would be better in that case to miss and then go into the draw of 4 for the first overall pick IMO.

You should at this stage and are better than Ottawa and the Petes. That rules out a bottom 4 unless Cooper does a fire sale, and I think a lot of people would be screaming.

Let's see how they do the next 3 weeks they have a lot of good teams to play.

 

[frontsfan67]

But if you can get the 4th or 5th, then you have a chance for those extra games, and that is what Agnew wants.

Yes. Stupid. Wasted year just to go the second round.

I would think that Pie would generate the most talk and the highest return. If you could get a 17 year old no matter the position and reasonable picks it would be worth looking at.

With him being an import it’s hard. Not as much of a market. Also pretty sure dubas sent him to the OHL because of Troy- so not sure that would go over well sending him to Windsor for instance.

You should at this stage and are better than Ottawa and the Petes. That rules out a bottom 4 unless Cooper does a fire sale, and I think a lot of people would be screaming.

I’m not saying this year they’re 7th or 8th I’m saying in general it would be better rather than getting smoked first round as a 7th 8th seed you take your chances with the lottery- maybe stay at 3/4 or maybe you move up to 1/2 and take the best kids available.

Big difference usually between the 1st/2nd/3rd/4th picks overall and the 5th+ overall in a draft