Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)
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This core is built for next year - any bonus playoff success this is just that - a bonus.
At this point though - who still has the assets for a Ludwinski move? As mentioned by someone else a trade for picks is far and away the better scenario and Sudbury looks to be the main team that still has the picks to buy.
It'll be Callens - he'll likely end up in Jr. A/B somewhere - he might've been the weakest OA this year (8 pts in 30 games, -20).
At this point though - who still has the assets for a Ludwinski move? As mentioned by someone else a trade for picks is far and away the better scenario and Sudbury looks to be the main team that still has the picks to buy.
It'll be Callens - he'll likely end up in Jr. A/B somewhere - he might've been the weakest OA this year (8 pts in 30 games, -20).
I think Ludwinski stays guys. The message is clearly staying competitive this year and next year. They can win the division this year, gain the valuable experience needed for the majority of the roster that returns next year, do a little tweaking and come back with the additional assets necessary to make another run.
Kingston can finish 2/3 in the East and play Brantford/Oshawa/Barrie/Niagara, then move on and play a team they've been fighting with like Ottawa in round two and then they avoid a team like Sudbury until the conference finals.
Next year, they have their 1st rounder from this upcoming draft and assuming they push the two seconds back from this year, they'll have 6 2nds and 6 3rds to work with in terms of adding at the deadline. Hemström and Ludwinski are the only guys outside of the OA's that won't be back. They can easily go for it this year and next.
I'm not saying this is what I want to happen, just saying what I think will happe and looking at their train of thought. I'd assume they don't stop with just adding Dubois, but who knows.
Me personally, I'd ship Ludwinski out for more picks but the assets they have are more than enough to really go for it next year.
Kingston can finish 2/3 in the East and play Brantford/Oshawa/Barrie/Niagara, then move on and play a team they've been fighting with like Ottawa in round two and then they avoid a team like Sudbury until the conference finals.
Next year, they have their 1st rounder from this upcoming draft and assuming they push the two seconds back from this year, they'll have 6 2nds and 6 3rds to work with in terms of adding at the deadline. Hemström and Ludwinski are the only guys outside of the OA's that won't be back. They can easily go for it this year and next.
I'm not saying this is what I want to happen, just saying what I think will happe and looking at their train of thought. I'd assume they don't stop with just adding Dubois, but who knows.
Me personally, I'd ship Ludwinski out for more picks but the assets they have are more than enough to really go for it next year.
frontsfan67
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frontsfan67
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I doubt kingston is trading ludwinski.
However if they did I wouldn’t be upset about it.
Still think they can win the division here and depending on who they play in round 2(hopefully not Sudbury or north bay)- they can maybe win another there too.
I agree they have to do something with those picks. I don’t think kingston is done here but I really hope they don’t use the picks on someone that’ll be gone after this year.
Even if they pick up an 04 I’d be happy with it.
Ideally though would like them to be swapped with a team for 2025 picks
Also- London didn’t really make any big moves here this deadline. Very confusing as I thought they would add a player or two for sure. Hopefully kingston isn’t talking to London as we all know London rips teams off
One of their 2nds this year is Barrie's, which you think would be top 4-8 of the second round. Maybe a swap for a projected late 2nd and a mid pick. Really get as much value out of it as possible.
Acquiring a 19 year old that will be back for their OA year would be nice. Not sure what kind of names are out there though.
You would also think that if they’re serious about contending they’d find a veteran backup. Doesn’t make much sense to me.
frontsfan67
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I think they don’t care too much about this year otherwise they’d pick up more players like Sudbury and Saginaw the main thing is playoff experience even for both goalies.
I believe they want to win a round, maybe if they’re lucky with the matchups win 2 rounds to help for next year.
And although salajko isn’t great. Maybe they think they can mold him into a good ohl calibre goalie to go with vaccari. Would help for next year as I’m sure those 2 are the goalies going forward the next 2 years atleast
beastintheeast
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Looking at the deals that have been made so far I am confused,
LOL I know FF wil say I am always confused BUT
Kingston bought a little
Ottawa bought a lot
Brantford stayed pretty pat but dabbled.
The Petes did both so
Oshawa said no thanks
I see KIngston Brantford and Ottawa fighting for that top billing in the division.
To me, Brantford has the edge at this point
only because there are still concerns about Kingston's defence and goaltending (not so much Vaccari but can Salajko spell him enough to keep him healthy)
Ottawa added a lot, so I think it is going to take a few games to get set. I am not sure they added the scoring that they needed and there is still a question about scoring and goaltending (is MacK healthy enough)
It should be interesting
frontsfan67
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Me personally I think brantford is out of the race now for first in the division. Should be a 2 horse race with kingston and Ottawa here down the stretch.
Brantford is still pretty good but kingston made some buyer moves didn’t sell anyone and you guys made lots of upgrades. Imo for goaltending brantford has the worst starter of the 3 teams.
Should be interesting to see what transpires.
Also will McKenzie stay healthy is question 1
and question 2 is now that he doesn’t have anywhere near as good of a backup will we see his games increase greatly and will he still have similar number or will they fall or flourish
Question 3 is will the Kingstons defence hold up. They’ve looked good so far but the bottom pairing of McGowan and uens might hold them down a bit. But a strong enough top 4 and the best depth among the 3 east division teams up front by far should be enough.
beastintheeast
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The catch is Brantford was good before the deadline.
as to the goalies of the 3 starters,
MACk .915 Mich 867
Drobac is 0890 egorov 855
Vaccari is 883 Salajko 850
MacK is a hard point to know I have to think Boyd would not have traded DON if he did not know.
As you can see all 3 teams have interesting BU numbers but they could be important
Defence is going to be important going down the road as well as injuries.
I am not saying who is better because I have no idea until all the players start to play.
We have seen what team's future is going to be also
BFD and you are both gearing up for next year
Ottawa is looking to go into a rebuild after one last try.
Looking at Ludwinski he is going to Rockford next yer
Logosarejusttargets
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Uens And McGowan are rarely together -- the last 4 games they've gone 11-7 anyway so the pairings are not consistent. Since Chromiak has been in Kingston he and McGowan have been together. When going 6 D Uens has generally been with Burns but since Schmidt has been here and Williamson has been playing well they've gone with that 7 d configuration. My guess is that changes starting Thursday and they return to 12-6
OMG67
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the deadline isn’t over yet but let me take out my crystal ball.
I think NB and Sudbury are the likely top 2 in the Conference from a quality of roster perspective. I am assuming DiVin returns to form. He has been a lot better over the last couple weeks and is showing signs he will likely be strong in the back half of the season. That likely gives those two teams the #1 and #3 seeds.
Kingston and Oshawa fiddled a bit to improve marginally. Ottawa made some big leaps. As much as Kingston has improved since the coaching change and made some roster tweaks, I still feel that the back end and goaltending is average to below average. Kingston still gives up a lot of goals. Ottawa is strong on the back end and when MacKenzie returns from injury, likely sometime in the next week or two, the back end will be back to normal with the stingy goals against. The offenice is vastly improved. I know some (all) here feel Ottawa is a doormat but even before all the moves, leading up to the Christmas break, Ottawa had the best goal suppression in the Conference. That will return. The offence is vastly improved now that we have three centres instead of only one.
All that is to say that if Ottawa does win the division, that places Kingston in a fight with Oshawa and Mississauga for the 4-5-6 seed. That means a 50-50 chance of making it out of round one.
I am assuming Brantford will end up in the #7 spot and Barrie in the #8 spot.
This is why I question keeping Ludwinski. Kingston needs to win the division to be relatively certain of making it to round 2. At best they are a 50-50 shot against Ottawa. I would even suggest Oshawa is right there as well. Their goal suppression is also very good and the addition of Punnett will help improve that.
I think NB and Sudbury are the likely top 2 in the Conference from a quality of roster perspective. I am assuming DiVin returns to form. He has been a lot better over the last couple weeks and is showing signs he will likely be strong in the back half of the season. That likely gives those two teams the #1 and #3 seeds.
Kingston and Oshawa fiddled a bit to improve marginally. Ottawa made some big leaps. As much as Kingston has improved since the coaching change and made some roster tweaks, I still feel that the back end and goaltending is average to below average. Kingston still gives up a lot of goals. Ottawa is strong on the back end and when MacKenzie returns from injury, likely sometime in the next week or two, the back end will be back to normal with the stingy goals against. The offenice is vastly improved. I know some (all) here feel Ottawa is a doormat but even before all the moves, leading up to the Christmas break, Ottawa had the best goal suppression in the Conference. That will return. The offence is vastly improved now that we have three centres instead of only one.
All that is to say that if Ottawa does win the division, that places Kingston in a fight with Oshawa and Mississauga for the 4-5-6 seed. That means a 50-50 chance of making it out of round one.
I am assuming Brantford will end up in the #7 spot and Barrie in the #8 spot.
This is why I question keeping Ludwinski. Kingston needs to win the division to be relatively certain of making it to round 2. At best they are a 50-50 shot against Ottawa. I would even suggest Oshawa is right there as well. Their goal suppression is also very good and the addition of Punnett will help improve that.
HockeyPops
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What do you mean by this? The Petes were by far the biggest sellers this deadline!
T-Minus 2 hours until the deadline - there doesn't seem to be any rumblings of anything going on right now. A hypothetical Ludwinski trade as well as maybe solidifying the back up goalie spot is really all I can see happening.
Likely just a matter of updating the site - but interestingly all 4 OAs are still listed online.
Likely just a matter of updating the site - but interestingly all 4 OAs are still listed online.
Logosarejusttargets
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Callans was released on Monday according to what I've heard from people around the team
frontsfan67
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You’re right forgot about them changing up the lines here. Still would prefer to see Chromiak in the top 4 over uens. I think they’ll go back to 12-6 yes you’re absolutely right- scratching cavallin and Williamson
Overall, I agree with most of your assessment.
I would say that I think you are underestimating their defence and goaltending. They have added three solid Dmen this year to go along Burns and McGowen who are solid Dmen. As well, having a good coach who is implementing a new system is also going to cut down on goals as the season goes on. The Fronts also have what should be an above average starter, assuming they can get him some rest.
As for the 67s, everything you say about them sounds great, assuming your starting goalie gets and stays healthy. It also assumes that all your trades click and the wingers find chemistry with their new centres (which is not always the case).
Lastly, regular season and playoffs are two different beasts. I get the feeling that the Fronts are building more towards the playoffs than the regular season but regardless you seem to almost clump them together when discussing the conference (or maybe that is just my impression).
frontsfan67
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Completely agree about north bay and Sudbury- they’ll end up with the 1 and 3 spots and could have a sizeable gap between Ottawa and kingston. But I believe those are the 4 teams in the east that will get home ice advantage.
I don’t believe Ottawa is a doormat lol, you guys had some injuries just like we have had them at certain points in the season. We definitely have your number, but with a bunch of new additions that could change. Now the final 3 games of our season series is how I would really judge it not the previous 5 obviously
Oshawa is pretty good you’re right, there’s not a sizeable skill gap between Kingston, Ottawa, Oshawa, brantford and Mississauga imo Mississauga has lost some good pieces to help for next year however they still have the best goaltending in the east, a good coach, good depth and decent defence.
confused as to why the fronts didn’t switch their 2nd round picks for next year or the year after. Maybe they forgot about that? Or maybe they have a bigger plan in the long run
OMG67
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Meh. First round is pretty much a waste of time. The 4-5 series is usually pretty good but the top 3 seeds typically always make it out of round one. 7-8 seeds rarely win first round. It happens but it is more of a rare exception.
The playoffs start in round 2. So, whoever snags the #1 and #2 seeds should go to round 2 with little concern. Seed #3 this year will also likely make it to round 2 with little concern. The NB/SUD teams both seem really solid.
So, from my perspective, your point regarding the playoffs really only matters in Round #1 if the Fronts are in the 4-5 seed. Maybe it matters in Round 2 but I think we need to see more out of the teams in the East division for round 2 discussions to be more relevant. If I had to put $$$ down now, I would think it will be a Northern Conference Final. If MacKenzie is healthy and plays like he can, he could steal a series but the 67’s are sorta small. I think they will struggle a bit in round #2.
From a 67’s perspective, I was reasonably certain the moves they made were what they would do. I thought they would bring in a replacement Import and a depth player with some jam. It doesn’t look like they did that. I feel they fell short again from a playoff team perspective.
HockeyPops
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There is still a trade window for picks only, before this draft. Teams might move picks around then.
frontsfan67
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