Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[OHL4Life]

Bigger guys that can skate!

Smaller speedy guys that push through traffic.

And show signs they have strong foundations to develop as opposed to bad habits with advanced physical attributes that mask their deficiencies.

Like you say, it is #3 point that requires multiple viewings in person. The first two are easy to see.

things you cant judge from a laptop.

 

[OHL4Life]

Bigger guys that can skate!

Smaller speedy guys that push through traffic.

And show signs they have strong foundations to develop as opposed to bad habits with advanced physical attributes that mask their deficiencies.

Like you say, it is #3 point that requires multiple viewings in person. The first two are easy to see.

hardest thing for scouts is to see thier own biases and have a counter balance to it. young scouts seem a bit more blind to it and dont like getting push back that they may not be 100 percent right on thier opinions.

size and geography (falling in love with the guy in your own backyard) are massing biases and generally unless you have a good boss or someone you trust, you dont get those corrected on your own. need someone to push back and tell you your wrong and you have to have an appetite to get better.

 

[OMG67]

hardest thing for scouts is to see thier own biases and have a counter balance to it. young scouts seem a bit more blind to it and dont like getting push back that they may not be 100 percent right on thier opinions.

size and geography (falling in love with the guy in your own backyard) are massing biases and generally unless you have a good boss or someone you trust, you dont get those corrected on your own. need someone to push back and tell you your wrong and you have to have an appetite to get better.

Plus a scouting eye is different than the eye of a fan. Fans tend to see production and flashy speed or bulldozer size.

Kilrea always used to say, “give me a kid who can skate and I can teach him how to play the game.” And, “I can teach a kid how to play but I can’t teach him how to score. Scoring comes naturally.”

 

[OHL4Life]

Plus a scouting eye is different than the eye of a fan. Fans tend to see production and flashy speed or bulldozer size.

Kilrea always used to say, “give me a kid who can skate and I can teach him how to play the game.” And, “I can teach a kid how to play but I can’t teach him how to score. Scoring comes naturally.”

lots of online scouts do see it as a fan, for sure.

 

[zaluty]

Now that Beck seems of the board, the next 3 big names people are speculating about are McCoy, Mayer and Ludwinski

 

[GoFronts]

Now that Beck seems of the board, the next 3 big names people are speculating about are McCoy, Mayer and Ludwinski

Ludwinski isn't going anywhere unless there's an offer that absolutely blows KGN away. Can confirm.

 

[frontsfan67]

Ludwinski isn't going anywhere unless there's an offer that absolutely blows KGN away. Can confirm.

Oh absolutely.

My thinking is hopefully with beck gone now and some time left before the deadline that some west team like London, Owen sound or soo gets desperate here and gives us an offer that can’t be refused

 

[OMG67]

Oh absolutely.

My thinking is hopefully with beck gone now and some time left before the deadline that some west team like London, Owen sound or soo gets desperate here and gives us an offer that can’t be refused

If Kingston tinkers or stays pretty much status quo and doesn’t trade Ludwinski, I think you have to be very disappointed.

 

[frontsfan67]

If Kingston tinkers or stays pretty much status quo and doesn’t trade Ludwinski, I think you have to be very disappointed.

I agree absolutely. As the days go by and ludwinski is still on the fronts- to me it seems like it’s becoming more and more likely he stays here for the year.

 

[zaluty]

Do you think Kingston should call Barrie about Jacob Frasca?

 

[dirty12]

Do you think Kingston should call Barrie about Jacob Frasca?

Yes, he would be good for the team. And give the Fronts a shot at rostering all the brothers. That would be kind of a big deal I think

 

[frontsfan67]

Do you think Kingston should call Barrie about Jacob Frasca?

I think it would be a good move. He can play lines 1-3. Is good on faceoffs, has family ties and is 6’5- what’s the worst that could happen

 

[frontsfan67]

I think it would be a good move. He can play lines 1-3. Is good on faceoffs, has family ties and is 6’5- what’s the worst that could happen

Also if they did this I don’t think they’d lose so much sleep about potentially doing what’s best for the organization going forward and trading ludwinski. Not sure what a hypothetical frasca trade would look like however I know it wouldn’t cost what ludwinski would obviously. And they’d have picks for next year to help while staying strong

 

[leafs4life94]

Also if they did this I don’t think they’d lose so much sleep about potentially doing what’s best for the organization going forward and trading ludwinski. Not sure what a hypothetical frasca trade would look like however I know it wouldn’t cost what ludwinski would obviously. And they’d have picks for next year to help while staying strong

Agreed - no idea about Frasca's cost but it should only be a fraction of a hypothetical Ludwinski return.

I also wonder if they look at 04s that might be back as an OA because they way it is now, the 4 '04s they have rostered are Hemstrom, Ludwinski, Heyes and Poole. Hemstrom and Ludwinski won't be back, and honestly for a contending team I'd like the OAs to be more towards the top of the lineup as opposed to limited to checking line duty because Poole likely would head into next year as 3C at best behind Frasca/Hopkins, and Heyes the same on the wing behind Soto/Thibodeau

 

[frontsfan67]

Agreed - no idea about Frasca's cost but it should only be a fraction of a hypothetical Ludwinski return.

I also wonder if they look at 04s that might be back as an OA because they way it is now, the 4 '04s they have rostered are Hemstrom, Ludwinski, Heyes and Poole. Hemstrom and Ludwinski won't be back, and honestly for a contending team I'd like the OAs to be more towards the top of the lineup as opposed to limited to checking line duty because Poole likely would head into next year as 3C at best behind Frasca/Hopkins, and Heyes the same on the wing behind Soto/Thibodeau

100% agree. I think they’ll get rid of atleast one of those 2 guys in the off season so they don’t need to waste a lot of cards now. Those guys being 2 of your OA’s is not the recipe for success- as for right now they’re good depth pieces and for the pk.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I personally do not see Ludwinski going anywhere this season.
If there draft cupboard was empty or they were losing i would say the opposite but i truly believe Coop & Mann think they have a contender with a couple tweaks and losing Paul would set this team back on any playoff run.

 

[ottsabrefan]

I personally do not see Ludwinski going anywhere this season.
If there draft cupboard was empty or they were losing i would say the opposite but i truly believe Coop & Mann think they have a contender with a couple tweaks and losing Paul would set this team back on any playoff run.

I agree. This team is only four points out of first in the Eastern Conference and has more wins than Brantford in the same number of games. Unless the return means that this year doesn’t take much of a step back, ie high end 05, I don’t see a trade either.

 

[GoFronts]

I agree. This team is only four points out of first in the Eastern Conference and has more wins than Brantford in the same number of games. Unless the return means that this year doesn’t take much of a step back, ie high end 05, I don’t see a trade either.

I've said it once and I'll say it again; this team is arguably the deepest in the conference. The players who weren't buying in to Mann's style of play were moved out and the right guys were brought in, and guys are getting healthy and really gelling as a team right now. They're only going to get better, in theory at least.

 

[OMG67]

Kingston’s ‘03s are average at best. Their ‘04 crop outside Ludwinski is consists of an Import (Hemstrom).

This team is build for next year. The only piece of the puzzle that points to this year is Ludwinski. You should not make a push based on one player graduating. Theoretically speaking, you can replace Hemstrom through the draft so I wouldn’t include him in the discussion.

The responsible thing to do is move Ludwinski (and Hemstrom) for the purpose of pushing assets forward. It is better to have an abundance of picks and assets to bulk up one year. If you are a team that can toss 15 draft picks at two trades in the same manner as Boyd last year for Morrison and Mintyukov, it opens up a lot of options other teams don’t have.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Kingston’s ‘03s are average at best. Their ‘04 crop outside Ludwinski is consists of an Import (Hemstrom).

This team is build for next year. The only piece of the puzzle that points to this year is Ludwinski. You should not make a push based on one player graduating. Theoretically speaking, you can replace Hemstrom through the draft so I wouldn’t include him in the discussion.

The responsible thing to do is move Ludwinski (and Hemstrom) for the purpose of pushing assets forward. It is better to have an abundance of picks and assets to bulk up one year. If you are a team that can toss 15 draft picks at two trades in the same manner as Boyd last year for Morrison and Mintyukov, it opens up a lot of options other teams don’t have.

Also need to consider how weak the East is and how there is no clear cut dominant force this season.
There is 5 teams right now with minor changes could turn out to be the Peterborough from last season in my opinion. Kingston has the draft cupboard to take a run this season.
I would agree that it may not be the strongest OA group but if you remove them and possibly Ludwinski + still not having reliable goaltending and there is a lot of missing pieces for next season.

If i were GM this is what i would be doing:
Acquire Dubois from Peterborough to upgrade Poole.
Improve Goaltending (Maybe Dono from Ottawa)
Find a way to Keep Vann Williamson in the Line-up. (I'd like to see him over Uens)
Keep Callens out of the lineup. (Trade / Scratch / whatever it takes

 

[frontsfan67]

Also need to consider how weak the East is and how there is no clear cut dominant force this season.
There is 5 teams right now with minor changes could turn out to be the Peterborough from last season in my opinion. Kingston has the draft cupboard to take a run this season.
I would agree that it may not be the strongest OA group but if you remove them and possibly Ludwinski + still not having reliable goaltending and there is a lot of missing pieces for next season.

If i were GM this is what i would be doing:
Acquire Dubois from Peterborough to upgrade Poole.
Improve Goaltending (Maybe Dono from Ottawa)
Find a way to Keep Vann Williamson in the Line-up. (I'd like to see him over Uens)
Keep Callens out of the lineup. (Trade / Scratch / whatever it takes

I would like to see them get Dubois or frasca, if they couldn’t do that. A backup like donoso would be a good move and inexpensive for sure

I agree Williamson has looked great this season and clearly has a lot of potential. I’m glad I’m not the only one on here who feels that way about uens.


Yes absolutely have to get rid of callens. An overage 4th line winger who isn’t producing seems pretty obvious to get rid of.

 

[ScoutLife4]

I would like to see them get Dubois or frasca, if they couldn’t do that. A backup like donoso would be a good move and inexpensive for sure

I agree Williamson has looked great this season and clearly has a lot of potential. I’m glad I’m not the only one on here who feels that way about uens.


Yes absolutely have to get rid of callens. An overage 4th line winger who isn’t producing seems pretty obvious to get rid of.

Sounds like we are pretty much on the same page with this team.
I just heard through he grape vine that Donoso may be on waivers... Interesting to see what happens here.

Uen's I think is more of a glue guy in the locker room but skill wise he is a bubble ohler with minimal offensive ability. -Break out passes at times look like rocket science to him.
I specifically remember one night i was there after about 4-5 failed attempts to break the puck out Troy yelling at him to wait and give it to Burns to carry the puck up. lol.
Defensively he's not completely horrible but i respect that he is willing to go to war for his teammates.

 

[ottsabrefan]

Kingston’s ‘03s are average at best. Their ‘04 crop outside Ludwinski is consists of an Import (Hemstrom).

This team is build for next year. The only piece of the puzzle that points to this year is Ludwinski. You should not make a push based on one player graduating. Theoretically speaking, you can replace Hemstrom through the draft so I wouldn’t include him in the discussion.

The responsible thing to do is move Ludwinski (and Hemstrom) for the purpose of pushing assets forward. It is better to have an abundance of picks and assets to bulk up one year. If you are a team that can toss 15 draft picks at two trades in the same manner as Boyd last year for Morrison and Mintyukov, it opens up a lot of options other teams don’t have.

I’m not sure they need to do an all in move but a simple improvement of that last OA spot and letting it ride. That could be enough in a very weak East to take the division and possibly the conference. And you still have plenty of assets to go all in next year.

Yeah, they could (and maybe will) follow your advice and be a bit stronger next year and a bit weaker this year, but given how they are playing now and how weak the conference is at the moment, why give up on this year?

 

[OMG67]

I’m not sure they need to do an all in move but a simple improvement of that last OA spot and letting it ride. That could be enough in a very weak East to take the division and possibly the conference. And you still have plenty of assets to go all in next year.

Yeah, they could (and maybe will) follow your advice and be a bit stronger next year and a bit weaker this year, but given how they are playing now and how weak the conference is at the moment, why give up on this year?

North Bay will be stronger. Ottawa is lining up some things. It will likely be clearer soon.

It is too early to make the assumption the landscape is not going to change dramatically over the course of the next few days.

 

[ottsabrefan]

North Bay will be stronger. Ottawa is lining up some things. It will likely be clearer soon.

It is too early to make the assumption the landscape is not going to change dramatically over the course of the next few days.

True. I was going to add a comment about that being AS IS, more so on the basis of what Sudbury does. Less worried about NB or Ottawa, no offense.