Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Season Thread (Part 2)

[OMG67]

When I coached a group of '99's I had twin brothers who came from an extremely abusive home. Their father was an alcoholic whom we banned from our organization events and the league banned from attending any games. He used to beat, yell, humiliate the boys. Before he was banned from coming to the rinks he used to yell at his kids every time they missed the net, lost a puck battle, passed instead of shooting etc.... These kids were good hard working players but would essentially shut down if I ever raised my voice in practice to get their attention. Learning about how different kids deal differently with various aspects of life helped me become a better coach. I don't think yelling and name calling would help them build more character? It's worth noting that one went on to become a successful OHL and CIS now usports player the other is in us playing in AA baseball.

I think you are taking an actual abuse example and equating it to heckling from fans on occasion. They aren’t on the same level.

I clearly stated that there is a difference between abuse and heckling.

Just curious, cause I don't golf.
Is heckling permitted/acceptable ?

In my foursome it is demanded!

 

[Truthking]

I think you are taking an actual abuse example and equating it to heckling from fans on occasion. They aren’t on the same level.

I clearly stated that there is a difference between abuse and heckling.



In my foursome it is demanded!

I agree, chirping from buddies on the golf course is a requirement. I’d take it less kindly if I had frank from Oshawa following me around telling me I suck after I just 3 putted for the 5th time.

 

[ktownfan]

It builds character. That has always been my opinion.

Kids have always needed to face adversity while being attacked from multiple angles. Kids today are bubble wrapped and protected from all of the dangers out there but it doesn’t mean those dangers do not exist. It just means they are ill equipped to deal with them.

Part of sport is dealing with adversity and building teamwork. PArt of that process is processing outside static. Those that deal with it in limited amounts at a young age are better prepared for it when they are older.

When I am on the golf course and you have that one jackass that needs everything as quiet as possible before they swing the club and get pissed off if someone moves a finger CLEARLY didn’t get heckled while playing a competitive sport. I used to have people screaming at me while I was on the ball diamond when I was a kid. I am 100% better for it. I can deal with a hell of a lot more distractions and uncomfortable situations partly because I wasn’t sheltered.

So, although, on the surface it seems like you are doing kids a favour by sheltering them from clowns, you aren’t. Sometimes it is good to have small doses of adversity and distractions.

Again, if it crosses a line, then sure. I agree it isn’t right. But heckling without offensive language that is centred on performance is fine. Coaches tear strips off players all the time. Why is it that when a small group fo fans hackle, all of a sudden hell freezes over and we are aghast? It makes no sense to me at all.

Stop trying to bubble wrap kids. They are now weak af. Put them through the wringer! They will grow stronger.

doing your part to toughen kids up and save the world. Lol, Thanks for your service

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

I think you are taking an actual abuse example and equating it to heckling from fans on occasion. They aren’t on the same level.

I clearly stated that there is a difference between abuse and heckling.



In my foursome it is demanded!

I get what you are saying, I'm only stating in my opinion just because the heckler/abuser doesn't see it as abusive or over the line doesn't mean the recipient isn't receiving it that way. That's why I'm saying that especially for JR and under fans should avoid personal crap. Again, my opinion....I'll continue with my seasons tickets and attend all the home games, will attend a lot of road games too -- and enjoy the game and won't yell, heckle, gesture or engage with any players.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Media Notes - Ontario Hockey LeagueSeeing that Schmidt got a 6 game suspension

 

[leafs4life94]

Media Notes - Ontario Hockey LeagueSeeing that Schmidt got a 6 game suspension

Whoa.... I expected something but not 6 games. It was 3 or 4 gloved punches to a turtled opponent - but I suppose considering Uens got 2 games for skating into a goalie that adds up...

Looking at the schedule to see what games he misses and of course his first game back? Against the Generals in Oshawa - sometimes it feels like the league does this on purpose...

 

[OMG67]

I get what you are saying, I'm only stating in my opinion just because the heckler/abuser doesn't see it as abusive or over the line doesn't mean the recipient isn't receiving it that way. That's why I'm saying that especially for JR and under fans should avoid personal crap. Again, my opinion....I'll continue with my seasons tickets and attend all the home games, will attend a lot of road games too -- and enjoy the game and won't yell, heckle, gesture or engage with any players.

There is a line. Criticize the play or lack of it. Poke fun at it. Fine.

Making it personal is different. Calling someone a piece of shit is different than mocking them for tripping over the blueline on a breakaway.

My ”assumption” is the fans are trying to get under the skin of the opposition by heckling poor play. I am assuming they aren’t calling a kid a piece of shit. There is a difference Between that and heckling a kid that missed the net on the breakaway saying, ”hit the net, it is in the middle!”

I think we need to define the difference between heckling and flat out abuse. If we are not talking about the same thing then we need to get on the same page.

 

[44 95 plus tax]

Trash talk is part of the sport. Just because I don’t partake in it, doesn’t mean others should not. There is a line that should not be crossed of course.

I do not condone people screaming at kids but if it qualifies as trash talk based on performance etc, it is not off limits IMO.

But isn't it "All your Fault" after a goal?

 

[ScoutLife4]

Well they threw the book at Schmidt. -I think 3-4 would have been more then enough.
Somewhere in the slums of Oshawa Generals Live is celebrating.

 

[Tarantula]

Just curious, cause I don't golf.
Is heckling permitted/acceptable ?

Depends on the number of times the beer cart has come around.

 

[leafs4life94]

Well they threw the book at Schmidt. -I think 3-4 would have been more then enough.
Somewhere in the slums of Oshawa Generals Live is celebrating.

Based on the official release from twitter it looks like the hit/punches were 4 games, but because it was called a Fighting major it counted towards his allowance for the year and since it's his 3rd there's an extra 2 games.

 

[Donnie740]

I think you are taking an actual abuse example and equating it to heckling from fans on occasion. They aren’t on the same level.

I clearly stated that there is a difference between abuse and heckling.

You are correct, it’s trying way too hard to equate heckling a 19yr old junior hockey player with physically abusing a 12yr old dependant child.

If there was genuine concern about the physical abuse from a drunken parent, it should have been reported to CAS so the children could have been removed from the program and protected instead of some ridiculously grandiose act of “banning” the parent from attending games.

I wonder if this person lectures fans at home games on how they shouldn’t be heckling such pure and innocent opposing players? Not likely.

The only thing more laughable than a sanctimonious blowhard is a sanctimonious hypocrite.

 

[Truthking]

You are correct, it’s trying way too hard to equate heckling a 19yr old junior hockey player with physically abusing a 12yr old dependant child.

If there was genuine concern about the physical abuse from a drunken parent, it should have been reported to CAS so the children could have been removed from the program and protected instead of some ridiculously grandiose act of “banning” the parent from attending games.

I wonder if this person lectures fans at home games on how they shouldn’t be heckling such pure and innocent opposing players? Not likely.

The only thing more laughable than a sanctimonious blowhard is a sanctimonious hypocrite.

Are you the blowhard in this scenario?

 

[OMG67]

OK, everyone. Time to calm down. It is a good discussion but I think we need to make sure we are talking apples to apples and not pulling on the extreme examples to make an argument.

There is nothing wrong with heckling in sport. It has been a part of sport for over a century. Is it uncomfortable at times? Yes. That’s the point. When a fan heckles, it is intended to get under the skin of the player and throw them off. BUT, it cannot be a personal attack not related directly to the play. Even on ice trash talk has its limits. You get lengthy suspensions for racial and sexual orientation language. That should apply to fans as well and as far as I am aware, it does. You also cannot use obscene language.

Most heckling is comical and not mean spirited. There are examples of that NOT being the case But generally speaking, that’s what it is.

In Ottawa, we had the Asylum. They rarely did anything mean Spirited. It was fun to watch. It annoys the opposition and it was a distraction and that is part of home ice advantage.

HOWEVER, we need to draw a line between obscenities and traditional sports heckling. Don’t take what I am saying or arguing as justification to be obscene or threatening. That is not acceptable. The arena’s all have ushers that monitor that type of stuff and would alert security if/when things get out of line. I trust those entities to manage the situations that get out of hand.

99% of people attending the game don’t heckle. Go to a Leafs game. 90% don’t even cheer! I would rather have a handful of hecklers in a rink that is fully engaged that creates a better atmosphere than sanitize all behaviour. Try going to a Gatineau Olympiques game. That is a completely different level!

Let’s try not to personally attack each other on this topic. It is a testy topic but I think we can have a constructive conversation without disparaging each other for our differing opinion.

But isn't it "All your Fault" after a goal?

That is a very strong example provided it is playoffs….

 

[HockeyPops]

The arena’s all have ushers that monitor that type of stuff and would alert security if/when things get out of line. I trust those entities to manage the situations that get out of hand.

OP brought up a specific real world example. Those entities you mention managed the situation. Why is there any debate about whether or not the actions in that particular scenario crossed a line? It sounds to me like most of the replies here are taking issue with the OP's lack of understanding that a line was clearly crossed in this instance.

Going on a message board an bragging about actions that got fans ejected is always likely to elicit these kinds of responses. Pretty sure that was the intent of the OP to begin with. Original post was a pretty good troll job. Nobody should be surprised at the direction that this discussion has taken.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

You are correct, it’s trying way too hard to equate heckling a 19yr old junior hockey player with physically abusing a 12yr old dependant child.

If there was genuine concern about the physical abuse from a drunken parent, it should have been reported to CAS so the children could have been removed from the program and protected instead of some ridiculously grandiose act of “banning” the parent from attending games.

I wonder if this person lectures fans at home games on how they shouldn’t be heckling such pure and innocent opposing players? Not likely.

The only thing more laughable than a sanctimonious blowhard is a sanctimonious hypocrite.

I'm going to repeat -- you are an idiot.

Why do I say that -- because you go on about something you know nothing about NOR did you have the courage to ask me the questions - instead you blah blah blah blah. The kids (and mom) were no longer with the drunken idiot (oddly enough his name was Don and he was from Oshawa - I wish I kidding). He would show up hence the ban (and criminal trespass charges).

I can be as sanctimonious as I want to be (however I'm not a hypocrite) -- much like you can be as much of an idiot you want to be.

"such pure innocent opposing players"? Are you that fragile that you need to actually type that out?

Do I lecture fans at home games? Wouldn't call it a lecture but if they are crossing a line and moving into the personal area I have and will continue to. I did it in Ottawa to a 67's fan as well -- so I don't keep my sanctimonious blowhardness for home games.

You are free to continue to be an idiot in the real world and on these forums -- but don't try and pretend you "get me". I do know however what section I'll be getting my February 6th tickets in now. I normally sit in 113 when we visit, and have had pleasant interactions with the season ticket holders there, even the old dude with the flag and sombreros...but I'm curious about the fun natured and good spirited "ribbing" that goes on in that party section.

Are you the blowhard in this scenario?

I think I get that honour....

 

[OMG67]

OP brought up a specific real world example. Those entities you mention managed the situation. Why is there any debate about whether or not the actions in that particular scenario crossed a line? It sounds to me like most of the replies here are taking issue with the OP's lack of understanding that a line was clearly crossed in this instance.

Going on a message board an bragging about actions that got fans ejected is always likely to elicit these kinds of responses. Pretty sure that was the intent of the OP to begin with. Original post was a pretty good troll job. Nobody should be surprised at the direction that this discussion has taken.

Personally, I felt the discussion advanced beyond that specific situation. It became a discussion about heckling in general and whether anyone should say anything adverse to a hockey player as a fan.

I did not attend that game, nor am I privy to what was said. I cannot comment on that specific instance. However, I can comment on those that suggest heckling “16 year olds” is wrong and there is no place for it because they are “just kids.”

Take the bubble wrap off. Let them feel some heat. It will do them good.

 

[Logosarejusttargets]

Personally, I felt the discussion advanced beyond that specific situation. It became a discussion about heckling in general and whether anyone should say anything adverse to a hockey player as a fan.

That's where I thought it went to. I agree with many of your points - I was trying to provide my own context and opinions. I appreciate a good and level headed discourse as much as most people - but I also don't mind going low too where it's called for.

 

[ScoutLife4]

Sometimes I wonder if the hardcore Hecklers realize that people are laughing at how idiotic they are and not because they think its funny to insult teenagers.

As grown man you have to be a special type of person to verbally abuse teenagers....

 

[OMG67]

That's where I thought it went to. I agree with many of your points - I was trying to provide my own context and opinions. I appreciate a good and level headed discourse as much as most people - but I also don't mind going low too where it's called for.

All good and that’s how I took your comments. No worries on my side.

I get a little testy now about young adults not prepared for any sort of adversity. They are ill equipped to deal with anything that doesn’t go their way. Coddling them and “saving them” from society is no way to protect young people. They need to experience more than constant support. They are emotionally insecure in general/

This is why sport is great for kids. High level athletes are high achievers specifically because they are capable of going through adversity. They become our leaders specifically because they are capable of going through adversity.

That is the point. If you can excel and achieve while under stress and pressure from outside forces, you are well prepared. I not saying hecklers are primarily preparing kids for the future but one of the byproducts of it is exactly that. Growing thick skin and keeping focus is over important. Better to start learning it at 14 than 28.

 

[Donnie740]

In Ottawa, we had the Asylum. They rarely did anything mean Spirited. It was fun to watch. It annoys the opposition and it was a distraction and that is part of home ice advantage.

A major part of home ice advantage is having a raucous crowd that gets opponents off their game. This is accomplished via heckling - - not by ringing a cow bell or doing the wave.

Ridiculing Nate Poole by calling him a turtle after he got aggressive but then dropped to the ice with his hands covering his head when challenged to fight is totally acceptable heckling.

Ridiculing Gage Heyes for being a fringe player on a team that’s getting boat raced is also within the acceptable limits of heckling.

Proclaiming that to be “abusive” is trying way too hard to shield an underperforming team and its players.

This is an issue with society as a whole having gone way too far overboard in decreeing what constitutes an “offensive personal attack” on someone.

I’m surprised that a section of an arena is permitted to be referred to as an “asylum” given how that can be construed as being offensive to those with mental health issues.

Believe it or not, Crazy Sock Day and Crazy Hair Day have been outlawed in public schools because the word “crazy” is too offensive. They’re now tabbed as Wacky Sock Day and Wacky Hair Day.

 

[ktownfan]

A major part of home ice advantage is having a raucous crowd that gets opponents off their game. This is accomplished via heckling - - not by ringing a cow bell or doing the wave.

Ridiculing Nate Poole by calling him a turtle after he got aggressive but then dropped to the ice with his hands covering his head when challenged to fight is totally acceptable heckling.

Ridiculing Gage Heyes for being a fringe player on a team that’s getting boat raced is also within the acceptable limits of heckling.

Proclaiming that to be “abusive” is trying way too hard to shield an underperforming team and its players.

This is an issue with society as a whole having gone way too far overboard in decreeing what constitutes an “offensive personal attack” on someone.

I’m surprised that a section of an arena is permitted to be referred to as an “asylum” given how that can be construed as being offensive to those with mental health issues.

Believe it or not, Crazy Sock Day and Crazy Hair Day have been outlawed in public schools because the word “crazy” is too offensive. They’re now tabbed as Wacky Sock Day and Wacky Hair Day.

I'll chime in and say, waste no more time on this guy. He probably heckles people at work (if he is employable). I would love to see a guy like this say stuff like this to or about Nate poole or to NAte when his dad is sitting there. I think he is about 6'6" or heyes in the same situation. These guys are gutless and have always been pretenders. How would he react if you said these things to his kid. Waste no more time. Let's talk hockey and whether we will beat OS on friday

 

[Truthking]

I'll chime in and say, waste no more time on this guy. He probably heckles people at work (if he is employable). I would love to see a guy like this say stuff like this to or about Nate poole or to NAte when his dad is sitting there. I think he is about 6'6" or heyes in the same situation. These guys are gutless and have always been pretenders. How would he react if you said these things to his kid. Waste no more time. Let's talk hockey and whether we will beat OS on friday

Heckling a guy for being a fringe player, while you paid to get into the game that he is playing in is a tasty bit of irony.

 

[OHLTG]

To me, there's a huge difference between (for example)... "(goalie), (goalie), (goalie), YOU SUCK!", from an entire crowd and "(player) IS GAY!" to opposition or going after your own team for the full 60 minutes. I get it, you pay the money and should be able to heckle/harass any player you want. However, how far before it becomes stupid and unnecessary? If a player does something stupid, heckle all you want, but I've seen/heard things that were the most random, oddly-timed stuff that made me go "wait, why?" It was like it became personal or they HAD to say something, even though there was no reason for it.

I love jeers and heckling as much as anyone else but sometimes I question how far is too far. If it feels like you've got an agenda against a player or you're going after their personal being that's not part of the game... maybe it's time to rethink things?

 

[Donnie740]

Heckling a guy for being a fringe player, while you paid to get into the game that he is playing in is a tasty bit of irony.

I paid for my season tickets to see the Generals - - not their opponents.

I’d prefer to watch top level opposition on top level teams like Saginaw and London.

But the worst players on the worst teams are at least good for a laugh.