Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)

[OHL4Life]

I guess my point is we need to see how the trade and redraft pans out before we actually know the end result.

Lets say he reported and the Guelph stuff is true.
Drafting a high 1st rounder just to trade him doesn't sound like the best idea to me especially when the kid has control of the trade. -The whole lets get him and make Guelph pay scenario didn't make a lot of sense to me because if that's the case the kid and his family are already working with Guelph so you wouldn't have the leverage really to get max return?
Maybe i'm missing something.

of course you would? How long gave you been involved non the OHL? Niagara has no leverage with Dickinson but still got 7 picks from London.

Kk gain thought they’d have that regardless of they don’t him or not, problem is they misread the situation. it happens .

 

[leafs4life94]

Not sure what other teams have been doing but a little interesting Kingston still listed Ludwinski on their camp invite post.

Otherwise all draftees (except Guindon since his rights have expired) were invited to their camps, and McNamara was invited to Calgary camp.

 

[OHL4Life]

Not sure what other teams have been doing but a little interesting Kingston still listed Ludwinski on their camp invite post.

Otherwise all draftees (except Guindon since his rights have expired) were invited to their camps, and McNamara was invited to Calgary camp.

Guelph had Poitras as a scratch for half the year, dreamers going to dream

 

[OMG67]

Been saying this all along

Works out better for the fronts

Malholtra wouldn’t have even played in the top 6 this year maybe top 9

Could’ve obviously traded him but with all of our picks- we could empty the whole cupboard for all I care this year instead and then we have 2 first round picks next year and we’ll get another for Battaglia for sure along with a few good OA’s we can trade for picks. Fronts will be fine.

I think it works out better for the Front in a different way. I don’t think drafting a kid like Challenger and then trading him would make an ounce of difference in how far Kingston goes in the playoffs. I think they are a little too far behind a couple teams and even if they bridge that gap, they likely need to hope that those other 2-3 teams don’t go crazy like the Petes did two years ago.

This plan allows the Fronts to make a push without needing to start from scratch next year. It is fine if you start from scratch after winning a championship. It is another thing if you have to start from scratch and win only 7 playoff games. That would be a disaster.

And, no disrespect intended toward Kingston either. The team will be strong. It is just unfortunate it is in a season where the Conference is very strong on the top end. A lot of things will need to swing Kingston’s way for them to make it to the League Finals. I am not sure having that ‘08 to trade will make a difference. Maybe it would make a significant difference because they’d be able to add that one extra elite player but I’m not sure adding one extra elite player will align with the competition.

 

[OMG67]

I guess my point is we need to see how the trade and redraft pans out before we actually know the end result.

Lets say he reported and the Guelph stuff is true.
Drafting a high 1st rounder just to trade him doesn't sound like the best idea to me especially when the kid has control of the trade. -The whole lets get him and make Guelph pay scenario didn't make a lot of sense to me because if that's the case the kid and his family are already working with Guelph so you wouldn't have the leverage really to get max return?
Maybe i'm missing something.

The idea would be they declare him defected and then trade his rights to Guelph. You still get the comp pick next year and extra draft picks to use this year. And, you’d get a lot more in return than a 3rd, 4th, and 5th plus an earlier 2nd. I think you’d need to look at a return somewhere between the Brzustewicz and Dickenson deals as the comp. Maybe two 2nds, two 3rds, and a 4th? Makes Guindon free.

 

[beastintheeast]

Where this hurts the Fronts is on the ice this year and going forward.

Malhorta would have been the 4th liner center to start probably. That means that they would have had reasonable star power up the middle. It also means that they would have had one more player. @OMG67 is right. This is not a team that is going to compete for first or be a stunning team in the playoffs. They are going to be a top 4-5 team, maybe 3rd the best.
Where the pick hurts them is next year and the year after. They lose that center experience that they would have had and built.

Yes, next year, they will get 2 first-round picks, but the skill level that you get is unknown as it is not going to be an early-round pick in either case. This uncertainty adds an interesting dimension to the team's future prospects.

Next year would be a better goal to compete with Brantford for number 1 while most of the teams will be rebuilding or retooling. It would also be a full year under Mann and lines set up under him to play.


Trading a player for a 2nd and giving up a second does not do much to move the needle. Malhorta, again, is your Moldenhauer. You can look at the picks you get, but the bottom line is you gave up a future 2nd for a future but closer 2nd. Everything els is just the fogg around it and means nothing.

 

[OMG67]

Where this hurts the Fronts is on the ice this year and going forward.

Malhorta would have been the 4th liner center to start probably. That means that they would have had reasonable star power up the middle. It also means that they would have had one more player. @OMG67 is right. This is not a team that is going to compete for first or be a stunning team in the playoffs. They are going to be a top 4-5 team, maybe 3rd the best.
Where the pick hurts them is next year and the year after. They lose that center experience that they would have had and built.

Yes, next year, they will get 2 first-round picks, but the skill level that you get is unknown as it is not going to be an early-round pick in either case. This uncertainty adds an interesting dimension to the team's future prospects.

Next year would be a better goal to compete with Brantford for number 1 while most of the teams will be rebuilding or retooling. It would also be a full year under Mann and lines set up under him to play.


Trading a player for a 2nd and giving up a second does not do much to move the needle. Malhorta, again, is your Moldenhauer. You can look at the picks you get, but the bottom line is you gave up a future 2nd for a future but closer 2nd. Everything els is just the fogg around it and means nothing.

Sorry, Beast but I think you are discounting this one a tad but too much. I think you could make an argument that it was a tactical decision on a player they felt as a worst case scenario that they would get a redo next year. As a best case scenario they trade the rights of the player to Guelph for around 5-6 high picks AND get the comp pick next season. Then, use those picks to acquire a more valuable player for this year’s roster. I don’t think they drafted Malhotra with any intention of him ever suiting up for the Fronts.

The only question truly is whether there was another player they could have picked that would have presented a better opportunity to pick a defected player that would report elsewhere. The only one I think there could have been is Logan Hawery.

I don’t necessarily think this was a bad plan. If you think about it LOGICALLY (shout out to Donnie), it would be better in the aggregate to draft the defected player and trade him for picks and get the comp. Where this went sideways was there really weren’t a lot of options available for Kingston to pull this off. Again, arguably, Hawery was the more safe pick to make for this to work out but Malhotra likely would have netted a higher return.

I don’t mind this as a team construction strategy. I think the execution was poor but I think the strategy was sound.

 

[beastintheeast]

Sorry, Beast but I think you are discounting this one a tad but too much. I think you could make an argument that it was a tactical decision on a player they felt as a worst case scenario that they would get a redo next year. As a best case scenario they trade the rights of the player to Guelph for around 5-6 high picks AND get the comp pick next season. Then, use those picks to acquire a more valuable player for this year’s roster. I don’t think they drafted Malhotra with any intention of him ever suiting up for the Fronts.

The only question truly is whether there was another player they could have picked that would have presented a better opportunity to pick a defected player that would report elsewhere. The only one I think there could have been is Logan Hawery.

I don’t necessarily think this was a bad plan. If you think about it LOGICALLY (shout out to Donnie), it would be better in the aggregate to draft the defected player and trade him for picks and get the comp. Where this went sideways was there really weren’t a lot of options available for Kingston to pull this off. Again, arguably, Hawery was the more safe pick to make for this to work out but Malhotra likely would have netted a higher return.

I don’t mind this as a team construction strategy. I think the execution was poor but I think the strategy was sound.

YOu could be right BUT they definitely did not do their homework if they really chose a player that was not going to play in the OHL and that it was not as wanted as others. I think that teams are a little more careful about these defected players as the cost to the teams, even if the player does not show up, is huge in draft picks that they can not use.

I think as a team that wants to be competitive this year the pick was important to show up. Drafting a player the same day as he signes a commitment to the BCHL to me sounds so strange.

 

[dirty12]

I think it works out better for the Front in a different way. I don’t think drafting a kid like Challenger and then trading him would make an ounce of difference in how far Kingston goes in the playoffs. I think they are a little too far behind a couple teams and even if they bridge that gap, they likely need to hope that those other 2-3 teams don’t go crazy like the Petes did two years ago.

This plan allows the Fronts to make a push without needing to start from scratch next year. It is fine if you start from scratch after winning a championship. It is another thing if you have to start from scratch and win only 7 playoff games. That would be a disaster.

And, no disrespect intended toward Kingston either. The team will be strong. It is just unfortunate it is in a season where the Conference is very strong on the top end. A lot of things will need to swing Kingston’s way for them to make it to the League Finals. I am not sure having that ‘08 to trade will make a difference. Maybe it would make a significant difference because they’d be able to add that one extra elite player but I’m not sure adding one extra elite player will align with the competition.

One, maybe two of Barrie, Brampton, Oshawa will not win more than 7 games. It could be disastrous Barrie or Brampton considering their core group was the ‘06.

 

[dirty12]

I think as a team that wants to be competitive this year the pick was important to show up. Drafting a player the same day as he signes a commitment to the BCHL to me sounds so strange.

Going the defect route in an all-in season is a sound strategy imo. Starting a re-tool with 2-1st picks is a good thing, especially if believing the next draft class is strong at the top.
Prices for all-stars keep rising, nearing the point where the cost may not be prohibitive, but the benefit of acquiring one is marginal imo.
A 16 yr old is not likely to play a big part; and every other team is holding off trading top players to that team until the 8th pick is included in a deal.
A free agent 19 yr old (Pickell) would play a bigger part. There will be other 19 yr olds that would also be better bottom six players this season that can be had for a single 4-6 pick.

 

[OMG67]

One, maybe two of Barrie, Brampton, Oshawa will not win more than 7 games. It could be disastrous Barrie or Brampton considering their core group was the ‘06.

If we take a snapshot of the Conference now, and run a few assumptions, the top 3 are Barrie, Brampton, and Oshawa. Kingston is nipping heals in 4th. I still feel Brantford will add 18 year olds that come available to help this year and next. So, I think they are laying int he weeds at 5. If Sudbury pushes chips in, they would fall somewhere in the 4-6 range.

Even if we delete Brantford and Sudbury from the mix and delineate 1-4 as superior to #5, that means two of those top 4 teams are only winning 7 games or less in the playoffs. That is the reality. And if Brantford and Sudbury viably enter the fold, one of those top four teams may win only 3 or less!

I think it is disastrous for any team that push al in to only win 7 playoff games. If you are a Petes fan, you can swallow what they are facing this year because they have a banner hanging. Imagine facing that same route starting next season and not even being a Conference finalist? The way things are shaping up, more than one team is going to be feeling the heat.

This season is going to get crazy I think. For it to be already heating up, it points to an arms race. No holds barred cage match battle royale! As a 67’s fan, we’ll be sitting this one out on the competitive side but it will be fun to watch and discuss throughout the season. I like the Kingston fans. Great group to exchange with. I really hope it goes better than I predict. It would be great to have the Fronts in the Conference FINAL.

 

[dirty12]

If we take a snapshot of the Conference now, and run a few assumptions, the top 3 are Barrie, Brampton, and Oshawa. Kingston is nipping heals in 4th. I still feel Brantford will add 18 year olds that come available to help this year and next. So, I think they are laying int he weeds at 5. If Sudbury pushes chips in, they would fall somewhere in the 4-6 range.

Even if we delete Brantford and Sudbury from the mix and delineate 1-4 as superior to #5, that means two of those top 4 teams are only winning 7 games or less in the playoffs. That is the reality. And if Brantford and Sudbury viably enter the fold, one of those top four teams may win only 3 or less!

I think it is disastrous for any team that push al in to only win 7 playoff games. If you are a Petes fan, you can swallow what they are facing this year because they have a banner hanging. Imagine facing that same route starting next season and not even being a Conference finalist? The way things are shaping up, more than one team is going to be feeling the heat.

This season is going to get crazy I think. For it to be already heating up, it points to an arms race. No holds barred cage match battle royale! As a 67’s fan, we’ll be sitting this one out on the competitive side but it will be fun to watch and discuss throughout the season. I like the Kingston fans. Great group to exchange with. I really hope it goes better than I predict. It would be great to have the Fronts in the Conference FINAL.

It could be disastrous for Barrie and Brampton, and maybe Brantford & Sudbury to buy frivolously given they have other options.
For Kingston though, it would be ludicrous to not see the all-iin year through. The roster consists of; two imports. 3-1sts, 2nd, 2-3rds, 4th, 10th picks born ‘05. Half of the line up is 19 to start the season.

 

[leafs4life94]

I get the two sides of the argument of whether or not to push all in this year with the competition - but as far as I'm concerned if you don't go all in because you're concerned about the top 3 east teams, then you're pushing a run back at least 2-3 years.

They're starting the year with this lineup (lines are irrelevant - more about the depth chart) - and at the end of the year they'll lose the crossed out players

Battaglia	Guindon	Uronen
Miedema	Hopkins	Soto
Shewfelt	McNamara	Weir
Pickell	Buttar	Heyes
McQuaig	Kelly
Burns	Pieniniemi
McGowan	Williamson
Velliaris	Uens
	Moore
Lalonde
Vaccari
Betts

I picked Soto/Uens/Vaccari as the OAs likely to return but it could be any of the '05s. Battaglia would definitely get moved for picks and if it doesn't feel like it's going to be a one year re-tool right back into contention I do wonder if they consider moving Hopkins as an 18 y/o to maximize value.

With the players they'll be losing after this season I don't see near anywhere near a high enough quality roster returning to compete - so why not take advantage of the roster make up and try to make a go of it.

 

[beastintheeast]

Going the defect route in an all-in season is a sound strategy imo. Starting a re-tool with 2-1st picks is a good thing, especially if believing the next draft class is strong at the top.
Prices for all-stars keep rising, nearing the point where the cost may not be prohibitive, but the benefit of acquiring one is marginal imo.
A 16 yr old is not likely to play a big part; and every other team is holding off trading top players to that team until the 8th pick is included in a deal.
A free agent 19 yr old (Pickell) would play a bigger part. There will be other 19 yr olds that would also be better bottom six players this season that can be had for a single 4-6 pick.

Please tell me that you do not see this team as a Cup competitor. Barrie Brampton and Oshawa are stronger and Brantford will be just as strong.

Kingston would be better off next year and that is when they could use that 8th pick next year.

You also forget that pickell was let go by barrie 2 years ago and played ojhl.

 

[dirty12]

Please tell me that you do not see this team as a Cup competitor. Barrie Brampton and Oshawa are stronger and Brantford will be just as strong.

Kingston would be better off next year and that is when theycould use that 8th pick next year.

Please tell me you do not see any possible way that Kingston would be better off next season..
Oshawa belongs in a group with Kingston and potentially Brantford and Sudbury imo.

 

[frontsfan67]

Please tell me that you do not see this team as a Cup competitor. Barrie Brampton and Oshawa are stronger and Brantford will be just as strong.

Kingston would be better off next year and that is when they could use that 8th pick next year.

You also forget that pickell was let go by barrie 2 years ago and played ojhl.

Beast yes they’re on the outside looking in right now- no doubt about that.

However if they empty their cupboards of picks they close they gap a ton.

Even if it amounts to a second round loss you have to take chances sometimes. You just never know. Look at Peterborough 2 years ago.

Next year they’ll be rebuilding but they’d be doing that regardless of if they empty the cupboards or not. Might as well push the chips in this year and restock next.

They’re losing both imports that are bound to be big pieces of the team, Guindon, burns, Miedema maybe (nhl drafted but not signed yet), McNamara (trade next year to get some picks back- it’s inevitable and same with Miedema if back), one of McGowan/uens, Lalonde, Battaglia (trade)

and some players they haven’t made moves on yet I’m sure will be gone as well.

Also pickell had a great year in the OJHL totalling 54pts in 40 games. He won’t be an impact player but he will be a great depth addition in the bottom 6. He is another guy they may lose next year. They could elect to keep him however if all these other guys get traded and his value is more to kingston than if he got traded elsewhere.

 

[OMG67]

Please tell me you do not see any possible way that Kingston would be better off next season..
Oshawa belongs in a group with Kingston and potentially Brantford and Sudbury imo.

If Oshawa has Roobroeck return, that is a big bonus. He is a monster. Also assume they do acquire Barlow as has been rumoured. I don’t think Oshawa is in the same group as those other teams. Maybe they are right now without Barlow and Roobroeck, sure, but that doesn’t seem to be the team we are likely to see.

Additionally, I am not advocating for Kingston to throw in the towel. I am advocating for them to play a more patient game and see what unfolds so they have a better sense of where their competition stands. If we look at Oshawa alone, it would significantly impact Kingston and the types of moves they need to make if both Barlow and Roobroeck end up on the Generals this season. It may require Kingston to look more at size additions rather than skill additions etc. Maybe a higher premium needs to be placed on muscle rather than goal scoring.

Alternatively, Oshawa could end up graduating both Roobroeck AND Ritchie. Then Oshawa is likely not the contender we think they could be. That, in turn, may affect Kingston’s strategy, especially if the division (and the #2 seed) is theirs with less effort and sacrifice.

I don’t think it overly affects Kingston to play a patient game with respect to buying. For sure, if the right OA comes available, upgrade on Hayes. If Vaccari looks good and they have a line on a solid backup, then maybe shift off of Lalonde and use the 3rd OA spot on a skater. Those types of deals they can do without waiting if the right players come available. No problem there. It’s the big nut trades for elite players that have costs in the 8 picks range that they need to be patient on. As we’ve seen, there has been no discount for the early acquisitions of Rehkopf, Leenders, Frasca, Thibodeau, Gardiner etc. Those are mostly deadline prices or at least pretty close.

There is no harm in being patient, assess the market, and mitigate against risk.

 

[OMG67]

Beast yes they’re on the outside looking in right now- no doubt about that.

However if they empty their cupboards of picks they close they gap a ton.

Even if it amounts to a second round loss you have to take chances sometimes. You just never know. Look at Peterborough 2 years ago.

Next year they’ll be rebuilding but they’d be doing that regardless of if they empty the cupboards or not. Might as well push the chips in this year and restock next.

They’re losing both imports that are bound to be big pieces of the team, Guindon, burns, Miedema maybe (nhl drafted but not signed yet), McNamara (trade next year to get some picks back- it’s inevitable and same with Miedema if back), one of McGowan/uens, Lalonde, Battaglia (trade)

and some players they haven’t made moves on yet I’m sure will be gone as well.

Also pickell had a great year in the OJHL totalling 54pts in 40 games. He won’t be an impact player but he will be a great depth addition in the bottom 6. He is another guy they may lose next year. They could elect to keep him however if all these other guys get traded and his value is more to kingston than if he got traded elsewhere.

I don’t think anyone should point to what the Petes accomplished as the “you never know” case study. The Petes entered the season as the hands down favourites of the Eastern Conference. They underachieved for a long stretch but even the Petes fans were like, “just wait. How can anyone think this team can be beaten. Look at their roster!” I had them as the #1 team entering the season with North Bay slightly behind them. Then I had Barrie, Mississauga, and Ottawa in a group a little behind those two teams.

Comparing the Fronts (arguably the 4th place team in the predictions) to Peterborough who were easily the favourite at this point in their season, is disingenuous. I don’t think many people, if any, are looking at the Fronts as the Frontrunner like they were with the Petes.

The bottom line is Kingston has an older team and I can understand the situation they are faced with. How can you not try to compete when you’ve aligned your roster for this year? I get it. But, it feels like they are getting into the ring against Mike Tyson in his prime. The question is whether Kingston can be Buster Douglas or they end up being one of the other 25 punching bags Tyson ran through. All of those guys Tyson ran through were top contenders. But, jsut because they were top contenders doesn’t mean it was an entertaining fight.

 

[beastintheeast]

I don’t think anyone should point to what the Petes accomplished as the “you never know” case study. The Petes entered the season as the hands down favourites of the Eastern Conference. They underachieved for a long stretch but even the Petes fans were like, “just wait. How can anyone think this team can be beaten. Look at their roster!” I had them as the #1 team entering the season with North Bay slightly behind them. Then I had Barrie, Mississauga, and Ottawa in a group a little behind those two teams.

Comparing the Fronts (arguably the 4th place team in the predictions) to Peterborough who were easily the favourite at this point in their season, is disingenuous. I don’t think many people, if any, are looking at the Fronts as the Frontrunner like they were with the Petes.

The bottom line is Kingston has an older team and I can understand the situation they are faced with. How can you not try to compete when you’ve aligned your roster for this year? I get it. But, it feels like they are getting into the ring against Mike Tyson in his prime. The question is whether Kingston can be Buster Douglas or they end up being one of the other 25 punching bags Tyson ran through. All of those guys Tyson ran through were top contenders. But, jsut because they were top contenders doesn’t mean it was an entertaining fight.

Beast yes they’re on the outside looking in right now- no doubt about that.

However if they empty their cupboards of picks they close they gap a ton.

Even if it amounts to a second round loss you have to take chances sometimes. You just never know. Look at Peterborough 2 years ago.

Next year they’ll be rebuilding but they’d be doing that regardless of if they empty the cupboards or not. Might as well push the chips in this year and restock next.

They’re losing both imports that are bound to be big pieces of the team, Guindon, burns, Miedema maybe (nhl drafted but not signed yet), McNamara (trade next year to get some picks back- it’s inevitable and same with Miedema if back), one of McGowan/uens, Lalonde, Battaglia (trade)

and some players they haven’t made moves on yet I’m sure will be gone as well.

Also pickell had a great year in the OJHL totalling 54pts in 40 games. He won’t be an impact player but he will be a great depth addition in the bottom 6. He is another guy they may lose next year. They could elect to keep him however if all these other guys get traded and his value is more to kingston than if he got traded elsewhere.

My concern is from a casual fan perspective. I keep hearing that people are not coming out to games. I think if they stay on this roller coaster they will never truly build a base..

Kingston fans are a little like Ottawa fans they want a winner every year. Not at eam that has to trade the world to get there but a team that wins.

From a dollar standpoint—and we know Springer counts them—this team needs to build for the future. That means making deals, yes, but deals that are going to keep the cupboard relatively stable and still leave a good team on the ice next year.

That is why Malhotra, IMNSHO, was a bad draft. You would have areasonalble first line and good down the center with Hopkins Buttar mcnamara and Malhotra.

The 2 Euros will fill in, and you will need to work on defence, but hey, that should not be that hard.

Kingston lost a lot of STH when they did the buy, got bounced in eh 2nd round, and then we sucked for 2 years, rinse and repeat. Fans do not want that unless there is a good chance that the team is going all the way and the team does not do it as badly as Kingston does.

 

[dirty12]

If Oshawa has Roobroeck return, that is a big bonus. He is a monster. Also assume they do acquire Barlow as has been rumoured. I don’t think Oshawa is in the same group as those other teams. Maybe they are right now without Barlow and Roobroeck, sure, but that doesn’t seem to be the team we are likely to see.

Additionally, I am not advocating for Kingston to throw in the towel. I am advocating for them to play a more patient game and see what unfolds so they have a better sense of where their competition stands. If we look at Oshawa alone, it would significantly impact Kingston and the types of moves they need to make if both Barlow and Roobroeck end up on the Generals this season. It may require Kingston to look more at size additions rather than skill additions etc. Maybe a higher premium needs to be placed on muscle rather than goal scoring.

Alternatively, Oshawa could end up graduating both Roobroeck AND Ritchie. Then Oshawa is likely not the contender we think they could be. That, in turn, may affect Kingston’s strategy, especially if the division (and the #2 seed) is theirs with less effort and sacrifice.

I don’t think it overly affects Kingston to play a patient game with respect to buying. For sure, if the right OA comes available, upgrade on Hayes. If Vaccari looks good and they have a line on a solid backup, then maybe shift off of Lalonde and use the 3rd OA spot on a skater. Those types of deals they can do without waiting if the right players come available. No problem there. It’s the big nut trades for elite players that have costs in the 8 picks range that they need to be patient on. As we’ve seen, there has been no discount for the early acquisitions of Rehkopf, Leenders, Frasca, Thibodeau, Gardiner etc. Those are mostly deadline prices or at least pretty close.

There is no harm in being patient, assess the market, and mitigate against risk.

The Petes were known to have intentions of being all-in, but were in no way hands down favourites. The team squeaked into the playoffs the previous season, and were not exactly flush with disposable assets.
Barrie and NB should have been considered for the top seed.


If the Barlow trade goes through, the gens D imo becomes marginally better than the wolves and not as good as the frontenacs.
If Oshawa gets Roobroek back, they will need to acquire a top pairing 19 yr old D rather than an OA. That is much easier said than done.
The gens could have been the team to wait, I think.

 

[OMG67]

My concern is from a casual fan perspective. I keep hearing that people are not coming out to games. I think if they stay on this roller coaster they will never truly build a base..

Kingston fans are a little like Ottawa fans they want a winner every year. Not at eam that has to trade the world to get there but a team that wins.

From a dollar standpoint—and we know Springer counts them—this team needs to build for the future. That means making deals, yes, but deals that are going to keep the cupboard relatively stable and still leave a good team on the ice next year.

That is why Malhotra, IMNSHO, was a bad draft. You would have areasonalble first line and good down the center with Hopkins Buttar mcnamara and Malhotra.

The 2 Euros will fill in, and you will need to work on defence, but hey, that should not be that hard.

Kingston lost a lot of STH when they did the buy, got bounced in eh 2nd round, and then we sucked for 2 years, rinse and repeat. Fans do not want that unless there is a good chance that the team is going all the way and the team does not do it as badly as Kingston does.

I’m not sure the average team has the luxury of never going all-in. A team like London can do it with some fo the recruiting advantages they have but the average team doesn’t have the ability to not empty their draft cabinet to make a run. I don’t think it is realistic.

If a team is unwilling to empty their picks and trade their current first rounder, the odds of them winning a championship is considerably lessened.

So, from my perspective, if a team is unwilling to do what it takes to win a championship and wants to remain stable in the standings, they will likely be a team that stays mostly middling with some “hopeful” seasons. That is fine if your fanbase doesn’t care you haven’t won a Championship in somewhere between 20 years and never. Ottawa last won a championship in 2001 and Kingston has never won one. I think it is unfair to suggest to those fans that winning a championship should take a back seat to consistent ticket sales year over year.

To me, the challenge becomes when throwing your chips in the table is the right time and how do you manage your sell off years to minimize the impact while also stockpiling assets to use for your all in season.

 

[OMG67]

The Petes were known to have intentions of being all-in, but were in no way hands down favourites. The team squeaked into the playoffs the previous season, and were not exactly flush with disposable assets.
Barrie and NB should have been considered for the top seed.


If the Barlow trade goes through, the gens D imo becomes marginally better than the wolves and not as good as the frontenacs.
If Oshawa gets Roobroek back, they will need to acquire a top pairing 19 yr old D rather than an OA. That is much easier said than done.
The gens could have been the team to wait, I think.

I agree about the wait with respect to Barlow for sure. I think it is silly they would agree to that deal without having Ritchie returned. Or Senneke for that matter.

I disagree about the pre-season predictions a couple years ago. I am sure if you were to pull up that thread, the Petes were easily the majority winner for tops int he conference but I agree NB And Barrie were there. That said, I don’t think many are putting Kingston in that same pack in a similar fashion as the Petes would be with Barrie and North Bay. I think they is a clear gap between the Fronts and both Barrie and Brampton.

 

[dirty12]

I agree about the wait with respect to Barlow for sure. I think it is silly they would agree to that deal without having Ritchie returned. Or Senneke for that matter.

I disagree about the pre-season predictions a couple years ago. I am sure if you were to pull up that thread, the Petes were easily the majority winner for tops int he conference but I agree NB And Barrie were there. That said, I don’t think many are putting Kingston in that same pack in a similar fashion as the Petes would be with Barrie and North Bay. I think they is a clear gap between the Fronts and both Barrie and Brampton.

The Petes were a near unanimous pick for the (east division); thus, top two. Kingston and Hamilton were fully expected to re-tool, Oshawa on the playoff bubble, and no one expecting a 19-1 start for Ottawa.

Right now, there is a clear gap from Barrie and Brampton to Brantford, Kingston, Oshawa, and Sudbury.
Not only can the gap be closed, it is entirely possible the top team loses its’ goalie and a 110 pt producer by the second game of the first round.

 

[leafs4life94]

I'm not opposed to the wait and see option but it just feels like another waste of a year if they don't try - if they go into the playoffs 4th without making moves then all the '05 talent they've accumulated has gone to waste. There's no world where they can re-tool enough for 25-26 to be a threat, so now we're on to 26-27, with Hopkins/Weir/Velliaris as 19 y/o, and ideally two '07 imports, two

In terms of assets - most of their assets are '26 and '28 picks - so if they can push back some of those 2026 picks then maybe they do go for it in 2 years while treading water and getting a series or two this year and next.

 

[OMG67]

I'm not opposed to the wait and see option but it just feels like another waste of a year if they don't try - if they go into the playoffs 4th without making moves then all the '05 talent they've accumulated has gone to waste. There's no world where they can re-tool enough for 25-26 to be a threat, so now we're on to 26-27, with Hopkins/Weir/Velliaris as 19 y/o, and ideally two '07 imports, two

In terms of assets - most of their assets are '26 and '28 picks - so if they can push back some of those 2026 picks then maybe they do go for it in 2 years while treading water and getting a series or two this year and next.

The risk mitigation isn’t about them being conservative, going into the playoffs in the 4th seed and losing in round two. The risk is against them pushing all in, going into the playoffs in the 4th seed and losing in round two. The point is, anything they do is potentially as likely to result int he same result. There are too many variables at play that could positively or negatively affect them. The longer they wait, the more the picture and landscape becomes clear.

It is entirely possible that Kingston spends all of their remaining assets by the beginning of the seasons and they close the current gap. Then Brampton acquires Gibson and Mignosa in a deal for Parker Vaughn, plus Romani for picks and all of a sudden, that gap reappears. Or, they wait for the dust to settle and swoop in if they feel the landscape is right.

I think it is very possible Kingston makes round two by doing very little at this point. Round three would likely require purging everything not nailed down. Round four would likely require some form of major injury’s on their opponent rosters while remaining fully healthy themselves. Just speculation on my part but that loose speculation becomes less “speculative” the longer they wait.

I’m not advocating for this approach but it is possible if the market is a sellers market, they could make a savvy deadline seller move or two to bolster the future so they have more options over the next 2-3 seasons. They wouldn’t be able to solve it all this deadline but they could add wha they need to start setting up a younger core?