If the rumours of Frasca's selfishness etc are true it won't be to the Attack with the young rebuilding team we are having I would be in favour of moving Konnor Smith to for the right price. If Guindon is true you guys are getting a great player who struggled a bit but also is a quality team guy. I will be sad to see him go but happy it's closer to home and a fresh chance for him.
Kingston Frontenacs 2023-24 Off-Season Thread (Part 4)
- Thread starter SoupNazi
- Start date
- Status
i actually think that 1, the scout report is right on guindon to kingston, 4 picks to owen sound. 2, ive heard that they did have a deal done for frasca, or the framework, something like guindon and picks, but he said no.
The guidon trade is just for picks.
They haven’t found a home for Frasca yet as of Saturday.
Yup, a third party told me the original deal may have been Frasca for Guindon and picks but his camp killed it quick.
frontsfan67
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2022
- 4,020
- 2,622
I agree that would be my preference first absolutely if it’s just a 1 year thing.
I agree
Yeah fair point to the rest of them wasn’t thinking too in depth just about their timelines not necessarily needs
I agree the fronts and ‘67s are not a great fit.
I am just saying Hopkins (rare unanimous 4th rated player to be selected) and Mews (anywhere in round one) are not equal imo. To suggest picks + Hopkins for Mews is way off to me.
I don’t think Kingston would be willing to pay the price Ottawa will want.
Someone will though and if the agent and family want him out of Ottawa they will end up getting their wish.
Would be wild if Frasca+ picks for Mews came to life though.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
I understand your point but I feel that was a weaker draft than the 2022 draft by probably a reasonably wide margin. I’d easily argue that JVV was a step ahead of Hopkins at least at the time of the trade. I think JVV has slipped a bit but the players drafted around him are head and shoulders ahead of Hopkins. Admittedly, he wasn’t really given much of a role as a 16 year old but at the same time, he didn’t push hard for one either.
Mews impact in two seasons is likely much higher than Hopkins impact over three seasons, not that really even matters. The reality is, the team that hypothetically trades for Mews is a team looking for a Ride Side PP QB that is likely to score in the neighbourhood of 80 points this season. That means Ottawa holds the cards in any deal. We all know how these buyer moves turn out. The buyer gives way more than the play is truly worth…
The challenge is if Frasca is having issues with Mann and Mews is having issues with Cameron, why would either of those players walk into the same situation they left?
Traditionally players who request a trade usually go for less than market value. It will would be even harder to get a high return if Henry Mews will only go to certain teams. The return will likely only be a player and couple of draft picks or if it is a draft pick only trade multiple draft picks.
I think the value all depends on your projection of Hopkins. Personally I expect a big leap from Hopkins. He had flashes but wasn't given a lot of rope on the offensive side, playing the majority of the year on the 4th line.
There did seem to be some semblance of trust from Mann because he played a decent amount on the PK but any way you slice it only 13 pts in 59 games is underwhelming - but with more icetime and better linemates I'm hoping to see him pushing PPG this year.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
If the player is sitting at home waiting for a deal, I agree. But, I don’t think that is the case here. I think it is more of a hard request. See what you can do with “these teams.” If not then we will expand our list. I don’t think it is a situation where it is “I want to go to Kingston and if I don’t you won’t see me at training camp.” I doubt Calgary would be very happy with that approach to be honest.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
The problem is that if Hopkins does make a big jump, he will be considered an integral piece of the puzzle as a player FOR Kingston. That is what usually happens. The ones that make that leap in year two aren’t traded because they are needed. The ones that stagnate are the ones that get traded but not nearly at the value they’d likely have received pre-season. It is a bit of a gamble either way.
From my perspective, I can only look at past deals and try to figure out the best fit between two teams. Ottawa would want Malhotra at the deadline (if he were to report). If not then Hopkins. If not then they go to the next team sort of thing. Circle back if nothing else presents itself. There would be no sense for Ottawa to force a best possible deal with Kingston unless Mews sat at home demanding Kingston or bust. Then it becomes a Frasca discussion. Problem A for Problem B. Even it out with picks…
Isn't it strange after all these years, and yes I have been a fan for years, that a player from Ottawa wants out to come to Kingston, not the other way around? Just when I thought I had heard it all! Lol
Someone will pay up for the puck moving PP QB Mews can be for sure. I think Kingston had more issue preventing goals than scoring goals though, and believe that team will be fine with what does Uens over the next two seasons.
I fully agree that the ‘22 is much better than ‘23 over all, but definitely not at the top and probably not through round one.
I fully agree that the ‘22 is much better than ‘23 over all, but definitely not at the top and probably not through round one.
Last edited:
frontsfan67
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2022
- 4,020
- 2,622
Hahah literally.
Also I believe at the time of the wright trade mews’ name came up regarding a piece to the wright trade to Ottawa. But he didn’t want to come here.
I hope it’s true mews wants to come here but it’s a I’ll believe it when I see it type of thing for me.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
That isn’t quite accurate. It is possible that Mews would not have waived his no trade clause to go to Kingston but that deal was never on the table. Boyd wasn’t trading bodies at that deadline. Huge mistake IMO but it is what it is. Had Ottawa done that one last deal and added Wright, I think they get by the Petes provided health wasn’t an issue.
frontsfan67
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2022
- 4,020
- 2,622
It’s all rumours from the time and at the time very briefly I believe someone mentioned about Ottawa and mews but that was quickly shut down.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
It was more like, “If Ottawa wants Wright, they will need to trade Mews.” That is no different than if Kingston wants Mews, they will need to trade Hopkins. It doesn’t mean there is an offer on the table or even discussion about it. Just if a trade were to take place, those are the most likely pieces required to make it happen.
I think that was pretty much the case across the league that year. With so many high profile young players changing hands, if Ottawa were to make a big move on a 19 year old non-Import, one of Mews or Marrelli were required in the deal to make it happen. It explains why they ended up parting with so many draft picks for Morrison and Mintyukov.
It is all water under the bridge now. Ottawa in consecutive seasons stopped short of where they needed to be at the trade deadline. Hopefully if Kingston chooses to make a run this year, they learn from Boyd’s mistakes and don’t do their push half cocked.
frontsfan67
Registered User
- Dec 3, 2022
- 4,020
- 2,622
I don’t know if you’re joking or not but we cannot be comparing Henry mews to Shane wright LOL a 3rd round d man vs a guy who was exceptional status and the #1 pick the whole year then fell to #4 on draft day.
And I think it 100% is different in this situation with Mews. He wants to come to Kingston and play with Battaglia. That’s his first choice- however he doesn’t want to be coming back to Ottawa regardless so Ottawa doesn’t hold all the cards on the table here. If a player wants out and they don’t trade him out- no big name will ever want to come to Ottawa again with the management you have in place.
Kingston wouldn’t ever want to part with Hopkins and for good reason- it’ll bite them in the ass as soon as this season, and for 2 more after that. I think a more realistic package would be something like Weir, Williamson and a boatload of picks. Weir should be one of the top rookies in the league this year although he is 17. Williamson is looking like a player that will break out- he may not get that if he plays second/third line minutes again this year for the fronts.
If Ottawa didn’t like that package that’s perfectly fine they can do what’s best for them and trade him to the highest bidder but I don’t think Kingstons gonna be crazy enough to part with Hopkins who was the 4th overall pick a year ago and showed a crap ton of promise the last 15 reg season games and into the playoffs, after a slow start and getting buried on the 4th line. Look at Battaglia and how much he improved in one year after playing 3rd/4th line minutes his rookie year. And he was picked in the second round.
OMG67
Registered User
- Sep 1, 2013
- 12,854
- 8,564
First, there is a significant difference between a half year player (Wright) and a two year player (Mews). Second, what Mews wants is irrelevant. It comes down to what Kingston wants. Everyone knows Kingston needs a Right Handed puck moving D-Man if they truly want to contend. So, really, this fire may be stoked by Mews but the reality is, the team that acquires Mews isn’t going to be a reluctant bystander. They will be a team that is in serious need of filling a premium position. When you are talking about a projected 80 point RHD as an 18 year old with another year ahead of him, that cost isn’t going to be spare parts and picks.
As mentioned, the real price is your ‘08 1st and picks (Malhotra). Had the Fronts picked MacLean or Challenger, I think we’d know the price and I think we’d both agree it would be that player and picks at the deadline. Unfortunately, Malhotra isn’t looking like he will report. So, next up is Hopkins. And before you mention Frasca, that is a player Kingston wants to badly get rid of. Frasca did nothing to improve in year 2. He stagnated. He’d need to come out in the first half as a changed man. Mews is not a player Ottawa wants to get rid of. So, there is a big difference there as well.
If Kingston were to trade Hopkins for Mews, they could turn around and trade Mews at the deadline next season for a package including an ‘09 1st. So, really, you need to look at it as Hopkins plus a 2nd and 3rd for a one year rental of Mews and an ‘09 1st plus a 2nd. I’d think that would be the net result. If not with Kingston then some other team would likely do the same.
I understand your hesitance with respect to Hopkins BUT this isn’t a situation where this deal is even being discussed. We are talking about what the fair market price would be considering who the more accomplished player in the trade is coupled with which team is making the buyer move to contend. The reality is, in this situation, it is still Kingston buying and Ottawa selling. You know as well as I do how that transaction works in this league.
Mews only wants Kingston because he would prefer to stay closer to home and Kingston isn’t in the shitter with respect to where they stand in their competitive cycle. This isn’t a situation where Mews would select Kingston because of anything not related to distance from home.
Short of Mews basically sitting out and awaiting a trade to his demanded destination, which I think pretty much never happens anymore because of the optics coupled with influence from the NHL team that holds the players rights, personally, I don’t see a trade fit here. I said that from the start this morning. The expendable pieces don’t really align. I think Brampton is in the same boat with Valentini (while needing a RHD PP QB). To me, both Kingston and Brampton are in a competitive cycle and both need the top pairing scoring RHD, but (seemingly) neither have their ‘08 1st to trade to get one. Oshawa and Barrie don’t need Mews. London doesn’t need Mews. Flint and Erie are pretty far away so I am not sure Mews would waive to go there. I’m not sure Mews has much of an option outside of sucking it up and playing out the season unless he is willing to move far out West. The only other potential candidate teams would be Brantford. Mews beside Protz would be interesting.
I think another main part with the hesitancy with Hopkins for me is the extreme lack of depth Kingston has at C.
Last year, going off of face off attempts as a proxy, they had Dubois (graduated), Ludwinski (graduated), Poole (graduated), Hemstrom (graduated), Frasca (wants out), Hopkins and McNamara.
Adding in Guindon helps but that if a hypothetical Hopkins move happens they'd be left with a C depth chart of Guindon, McNamara (not a true C) Cavallin, then Adam Kelly? I might be forgetting someone obvious pre-coffee this early in the morning but that is atrocious C depth. They'd instantly be put in a spot where C depth is holding them back.
Hopefully the Frasca move returns a C or else it could be ugly at the start of next year.
Has it actually been said News specifically wants Kingston? All I had read was that he wanted out.
Last year, going off of face off attempts as a proxy, they had Dubois (graduated), Ludwinski (graduated), Poole (graduated), Hemstrom (graduated), Frasca (wants out), Hopkins and McNamara.
Adding in Guindon helps but that if a hypothetical Hopkins move happens they'd be left with a C depth chart of Guindon, McNamara (not a true C) Cavallin, then Adam Kelly? I might be forgetting someone obvious pre-coffee this early in the morning but that is atrocious C depth. They'd instantly be put in a spot where C depth is holding them back.
Hopefully the Frasca move returns a C or else it could be ugly at the start of next year.
Has it actually been said News specifically wants Kingston? All I had read was that he wanted out.
I just realized 2021 Mews and Battaglia were on the same GTHL team.
Frasca's stock is no doubt down right now but Mews is down too imo,.
Mews was a player that was supposed to go first round in early season rankings and fell to 3rd round and is severally lacking a psychical side to his game.
With that said i just don't see Ottawa sending him to Kingston regardless of what the family, player and agent want. -I'm sure Calgary will also be getting involved if not already.
Frasca's stock is no doubt down right now but Mews is down too imo,.
Mews was a player that was supposed to go first round in early season rankings and fell to 3rd round and is severally lacking a psychical side to his game.
With that said i just don't see Ottawa sending him to Kingston regardless of what the family, player and agent want. -I'm sure Calgary will also be getting involved if not already.
I trust Dale on his bringing in good people so if he had something going for Frasca he would have done his due diligence. The reason I say if Guindon to Ktown is true is only because I've learned over the years even done deals can derail quickly. It does make sense and is very believable but until it's official I'll wait.
- Status
