GDT: Kings vs Coyotes 4.2.17 : There's still a chance edition!

[KingsFan7824]

This team is just not good enough to challenge the up and coming teams in the Pacific Division for the foreseeable future.

To top it off they aren't young and inexperienced. They are getting older and are overpaid.

Their defense will most likely be younger and more inexperienced to start next season than it has been in a while. Figuring Kempe and Brodzinski on the team, they'll be a little younger up front. Might be younger behind Quick too if Campbell makes the team. Probably won't go all in with a youth movement though, since they probably can't.

 

[Winger23]

The writing on the wall is clear as day the system the kings use simply will not work with this roster anymore. They don't have guys that can collectively just shut teams down. They struggle to score because they are constantly going up the ice 2 or 3 on 5 because they are too damn worried about puck position. Is there a stat that shows odd man breaks for and against?

They need to bring in a coach from outside of the org that utilizes a new system. The kings are going to be crap for a few years anyhow, plenty of time to adjust to a new system.

 

[The Tikkanen]

The Kings have killed CORSI.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I refuse to believe that Kopitar is done until there's a new coach that can utilize his offensive talent better.

Kopitar and almost everyone else.

I refuse to believe everyone is suddenly awful even more than I believe Landeskog is suddenly an awful-ass 40 point player, 70-point Matt Duchene is a less than 40 point player, and Nathan MacKinnon's best days are behind him.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Woops, forgot to watch the game.

Ah well; it probably sucked as much as TWD finale.

 

[Whiskeypete]

just bury this horse and be done with it, a dreadful season (after two previous poor seasons). good thing we got Bishop in the trade so they could ride two #1's into the playoffs. that worked wonders for them.

trade away Budaj, who besides Carter had the most to do with them remaining in contention. for a GM that talks about family, pride, etc in the locker room that had to be a total junk punch. Bishop has played in 6 games and will likely get another start or two, for that Dean wasted another prospect Cernak (#2), a 7th and a conditional this year. in return LA gets TB 5th rounder this year, so we lose a #2 round prospect essentially for a 2017 5th rounder.

this team needs a total shake up from top to bottom, because it just isn't working any longer. new coach, new GM, new faces in the room and change in style. its been discussed here ad nauseum of how teams counter LA and how to beat them. LA's structure on the ice is also its biggest enemy on the ice, because it can be countered very effectively by teams that possess skill and speed. this dates back to CHI years ago tearing us apart, that was the warning signal that wasn't addressed. now we have teams like EDM and CLG that rip us apart.

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar and almost everyone else.

I refuse to believe everyone is suddenly awful even more than I believe Landeskog is suddenly an awful-ass 40 point player, 70-point Matt Duchene is a less than 40 point player, and Nathan MacKinnon's best days are behind him.

Anze Kopitar will turn 30 this summer.

Landeskog will be 25 in November

Duchene just turned 26 in January

McKinnon will be 22 in September.

One of these things is not like the others. As you are so fond of saying 5 years is an eternity in pro hockey.

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

On average, players retain about 90% of their scoring through age 29, but the drop from there is pretty sharp.

we now have an estimate of how even strength scoring ability changes through a player's 30's. On average, players retain about 90% of their scoring through age 29, but the drop from there is pretty sharp -- they hit 80% at age 31, 70% at age 32-33, and 60% at age 35.

Kopitar will likely have a "bounce back" season next year, but it may only be defined as such because his production this season was so unacceptable.

Players aren't suddenly awful. They decline as they get older.

Will Anze Kopitar's production continue to decline below the norm from seasons past? Yes, believe it.

 

[fsanford]

Woops, forgot to watch the game.

Ah well; it probably sucked as much as TWD finale.

You did miss the best save in recent NHL history.
Then again probably on YouTube, you got lucky it did not happen 20 years ago

 

[Reaper45]

In the words of Tiger Williams this team is "wimp ass".

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

The postmortem on social media really stings. So many sad Kopitar and Martinez faces.

For those who haven't seen them, here they are:

Dejected Martinez:



Sad Kopitar:



(Thanks to Sheng Peng)

 

[KINGS17]

Kopitar sums up the season perfectly: "It just wasn't good enough."

 

[tny760]

Good ****ing riddance. Hopefully they can finish around 7 or 8.

This team has no kill mentality. Just going through the motions. Great defense and solid goaltending - as usual - were the only reasons they were anywhere near a playoff spot with a couple weeks left. When your second-highest points producer hasn't even cracked 50 points, you know your offense is a giant pile of crap. Same old song and dance. Quick gives up 2 goals and the game is done.

that's exactly how i see it and why i harp on sutter so much. these guys have been coached to death. remember how many breakouts were disrupted in 2012-2014 by that forecheck? they were actively trying to pick pucks out of the air, not just "getting to the spot and waving their stick". somewhere along the time, the "read" game got lost to a "get to the spot" game. combine that with being absolutely scouted to death, and here we are. they're shortcutting.

i'm not on the "sell everybody, new system, blow it up" bandwagon but sutter's offensive/offense-to-defense transition system is dead. that's a fact. these guys are solid in their own zone, the d-to-o transition game is still sorta there and i don't see any reason to change that, but the reigns need to be loosened on the forecheck. i see too much "prevent defense" and not enough reading the play.

all i can say is i hope muzzin bounces back cause this d-corps has some serious long-term potential if ladue and forbort can even keep playing at their current levels.

 

[Choralone]

that's exactly how i see it and why i harp on sutter so much. these guys have been coached to death. remember how many breakouts were disrupted in 2012-2014 by that forecheck? they were actively trying to pick pucks out of the air, not just "getting to the spot and waving their stick". somewhere along the time, the "read" game got lost to a "get to the spot" game. combine that with being absolutely scouted to death, and here we are. they're shortcutting.

i'm not on the "sell everybody, new system, blow it up" bandwagon but sutter's offensive/offense-to-defense transition system is dead. that's a fact. these guys are solid in their own zone, the d-to-o transition game is still sorta there and i don't see any reason to change that, but the reigns need to be loosened on the forecheck. i see too much "prevent defense" and not enough reading the play.

all i can say is i hope muzzin bounces back cause this d-corps has some serious long-term potential if ladue and forbort can even keep playing at their current levels.

I agree with everything in this post.

 

[Fishhead]

that's exactly how i see it and why i harp on sutter so much. these guys have been coached to death. remember how many breakouts were disrupted in 2012-2014 by that forecheck? they were actively trying to pick pucks out of the air, not just "getting to the spot and waving their stick". somewhere along the time, the "read" game got lost to a "get to the spot" game. combine that with being absolutely scouted to death, and here we are. they're shortcutting.

i'm not on the "sell everybody, new system, blow it up" bandwagon but sutter's offensive/offense-to-defense transition system is dead. that's a fact. these guys are solid in their own zone, the d-to-o transition game is still sorta there and i don't see any reason to change that, but the reigns need to be loosened on the forecheck. i see too much "prevent defense" and not enough reading the play.

all i can say is i hope muzzin bounces back cause this d-corps has some serious long-term potential if ladue and forbort can even keep playing at their current levels.

I agree with that first part wholeheartedly, but I think the d-o transition is struggling. This team is really weak in the neutral zone, they do not get the puck up quickly at all. Our zone entries have not been good this year, outnumbered attacks for are rare.

The D is far too conservative and concentrating on their own end, which is to be expected with young players. Fingers crossed that once they get some experience they stop thinking about avoiding mistakes and play more reactionary to the play. That's why it looks so much like prevent. I want to throw something every time I see a forward streaking up the middle and the D whirls around and passes it across to their partner.

 

[lexlavender]

I agree with that first part wholeheartedly, but I think the d-o transition is struggling. This team is really weak in the neutral zone, they do not get the puck up quickly at all. Our zone entries have not been good this year, outnumbered attacks for are rare.

The D is far too conservative and concentrating on their own end, which is to be expected with young players. Fingers crossed that once they get some experience they stop thinking about avoiding mistakes and play more reactionary to the play. That's why it looks so much like prevent. I want to throw something every time I see a forward streaking up the middle and the D whirls around and passes it across to their partner.

I agree, our transition has been lacking. but I think that is a combination of factors, not just personel. For one thing, the team has been fighting the puck all season; they're much less likely to take risks because of that, or look for "the perfect pass" to much.

Also I think it's systems based; Sutter would rather have a slow transition lead to a lack luster dump in than a risky pass end up on an opposing players stick. I'm sure he inhibits creative breakouts.

I'm sure a new coach with a more open system will allow the natural puck-moving abilities of Doughty, Martinez, Gravel, and LaDue to shine.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kopitar will likely have a "bounce back" season next year, but it may only be defined as such because his production this season was so unacceptable.

Players aren't suddenly awful. They decline as they get older.

Will Anze Kopitar's production continue to decline below the norm from seasons past? Yes, believe it.

I know you never want to miss the opportunity to slam Kopitar but that wasn't my point. It wasn't about Kopitar vs. Mackinnon and age; it was about a roster collectively sucking.

 

[tny760]

I agree with that first part wholeheartedly, but I think the d-o transition is struggling. This team is really weak in the neutral zone, they do not get the puck up quickly at all. Our zone entries have not been good this year, outnumbered attacks for are rare.

The D is far too conservative and concentrating on their own end, which is to be expected with young players. Fingers crossed that once they get some experience they stop thinking about avoiding mistakes and play more reactionary to the play. That's why it looks so much like prevent. I want to throw something every time I see a forward streaking up the middle and the D whirls around and passes it across to their partner.

i guess i could have worded it better, the d-inititated transition breakouts are brutal, but i still see some vision when its a takeaway transition by a forward, they can still turn and burn with the best of em, especially with carter on the ice.

i do feel the same way about the d-to-d passes though, so many times we've seen a forward making that diagonal run out of the zone and they don't even get the chance, it's like they're the dummy to open up the d-to-d.. i think for most teams that streaking forward would be the 1st choice, and the telegraphed cross-ice pass to the winger would be the 2nd or 3rd. for the kings it's 1st. if it's not there, they run into a wall because all other options are now covered. that slow skate from the dots to the blue line praying a line opens up.. UGH.

that's not even mentioning the fact that we NEVER see a defenseman skate out of the zone. last night martinez did it 2 or 3 times, dusted the forechecker with a simple move and he seemed shocked and didn't know what to do. like yeah, you're allowed to skate in hockey.. i don't expect mcnabb or forbort to ever make that decision but it would be nice to see doughty, martinez and ladue swing their balls around occasionally

 

[Pandaman11]

Can we please fire Sutter NOW? I always knew we wouldn't make the playoffs, but I'm also kinda tired of outshooting opponents 40-15 and losing 1-2, 1-3. 1000 times over and over again the same BS. He doesn't get it that his "style" doesn't work (anymore). Thanks.

 

[KINGS17]

I know you never want to miss the opportunity to slam Kopitar but that wasn't my point. It wasn't about Kopitar vs. Mackinnon and age; it was about a roster collectively sucking.

The roster can play great. If Kopitar doesn't produce, it won't matter.

You gave the examples of young Colorado players and then mentioned Kopitar in the same post. I countered.

 

[TonySCV]

Kings were one point out of the playoffs with Peter Budaj, now they're out by 10 points. That's pretty funny.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I disagree that our transition game this season was bad. It was head and shoulders better than last season. Our biggest problem wasn't getting out of the D-zone, but rather getting enough traffic or drive to the net and actually finishing on shots.

The team this season and the one last season might as well have been completely different teams. Last season, our defensive depth was horrible. Other than Doughty, Muzzin and Martinez, we had garbage defensemen who couldn't transition the puck out of the D-zone. Our offense, however, was great because Lucic clicked with both the Carter line and the Kopitar line, and was the catalyst this team needed. This season, I think we had the best defensive corps since the 2014 cup run, but our offense was dead in the water.

Going forward, with or without a coaching change, DL or the next GM needs to somehow get us another dynamic offensive player that can be a spark plug on the top 6. I would like to see us target Duchene in a three-way deal. Since Colorado does not want older defensemen, we could trade Muzzin to a cup contending team for one of their young defensive prospects, and then trade that prospect to Colorado for Duchene. There may need to be pluses going back and forth, but the crux of a deal can be made that way.

Another trade option is with Dallas, who is not necessarily rebuilding so they may want a Muzzin or Martinez in exchange for one of their top forward rookies or prospects, or their 1st rounder and a prospect.

The biggest question in the off season is whether DL buys out Gaborik. The Mayor said that this was being discussed. But I hope if we can trade Muzzin or Martinez for a forward, we can avoid buying Gaborik because of the long term implications. Also, who knows, maybe Gaborik will have a rebound year if Sutter is replaced.

 

[Fishhead]

I agree, our transition has been lacking. but I think that is a combination of factors, not just personel. For one thing, the team has been fighting the puck all season; they're much less likely to take risks because of that, or look for "the perfect pass" to much.

Also I think it's systems based; Sutter would rather have a slow transition lead to a lack luster dump in than a risky pass end up on an opposing players stick. I'm sure he inhibits creative breakouts.

I'm sure a new coach with a more open system will allow the natural puck-moving abilities of Doughty, Martinez, Gravel, and LaDue to shine.

Sutter's system is all about quick breakouts, look at what this team did 2012-2014. He constantly talks about how they need to get the puck up quicker, but guys don't do it. It tells me the message has gone stale. Personnel has an effect on this, but that should resolve in time as the rookies get comfortable. It will be harder to address the fact that the vets look largely disinterested if Sutter stays on.

What I find amusing (or maybe not), is that many posters have different ideas about what is wrong, and all of them have their merits. It illustrates just how many things are wrong with this team, not just a few issues.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The roster can play great. If Kopitar doesn't produce, it won't matter.

You gave the examples of young Colorado players and then mentioned Kopitar in the same post. I countered.

I said literally "Kopitar and almost everyone else" You're being deliberately obtuse to belabor a point and I'm going to kindly ask you to stop.

Let me rephrase. Do you think Landeskog is a 40 point player? Duchene? Mackinnon? All together? Or is something else going on there?

 

[KINGS17]

I said literally "Kopitar and almost everyone else" You're being deliberately obtuse to belabor a point and I'm going to kindly ask you to stop.

Let me rephrase. Do you think Landeskog is a 40 point player? Duchene? Mackinnon? All together? Or is something else going on there?

I think Colorado has very little in the way of veteran leadership. When things started heading south these kids just couldn't right the ship.

The chances of them rebounding, given their ages, has a much higher probability over a longer period of time than Anze Kopitar rebounding and sustaining it.

You brought the Avs players into it, I didn't.

It goes both ways. I am highly critical of the contract Kopitar received from the Kings. You defend him at almost every turn. You can stop as well.

I can assure you I am not being deliberately obtuse. You just need to make a better point, or I will refute what you post.

 

[KINGS17]

Sutter's system is all about quick breakouts, look at what this team did 2012-2014. He constantly talks about how they need to get the puck up quicker, but guys don't do it. It tells me the message has gone stale. Personnel has an effect on this, but that should resolve in time as the rookies get comfortable. It will be harder to address the fact that the vets look largely disinterested if Sutter stays on.

What I find amusing (or maybe not), is that many posters have different ideas about what is wrong, and all of them have their merits. It illustrates just how many things are wrong with this team, not just a few issues.

I agree with this. While the defensemen coming up from Ontario played well positionally for the most part, they didn't move the puck effectively out of the zone.

It's probably one of the toughest things for a defenseman to learn. He has to read the play so as not to get his breakout pass picked off, then he has to execute a crisp breakout pass to a forward in stride. Anything less and the puck doesn't move faster than the other team can skate.