GDT: Kings Training Camp 2022/2023!

[Mats26]

If he could put up 50 points, I doubt anyone would complain. He's an offensive player but he's not the equivalent of Seider, DeAngelo, Dahlin, Jones, Hanifin, etc.

He's a mid-30's type of guy, he doesn't have that kind of ceiling. And he and Bjornfot last year hemorrhaged dangerous chances, and that's against the worst competition. His offense offsets a lot of it, but it's not really enough.

Yeah, he had 3 points last night. But he was also on the ice for 4 of the 5 ES goals against. It's just not a winning formula. And it's not really bitching about Durzi, I love watching him and his swagger. it's just the reality that the team will outgrow players like that as they progress.

Even if he puts up 50, people will complain. He scored 27 in his first year missing 18 games. He has a baseline of ~40 with PP1 duties with a break year of 50pts if given the ice time and proper support. He probably won't get it here with Doughty consuming alot of his ice time....too bad, nice asset to inflate and trade.

 

[bland]

Spot on. Despite being defensively a complete dumpster fire, he managed to be on the ice for more goals for than against because of his special teams play. On the whole he did well, but there's no getting around his poor defensive play. Like I said in another post, it's really a matter of whether his offensive capabilities can balance out his defensive problems.

To me he is the anti-Nick Shore. He makes things happen. Lots of good things on one end of the ice, lots of bad things on the other end.

The obsession fans have developed for numbers to "prove" their opinions has really harmed their ability to see things for what they are. No sport has less to do with analytics than hockey, its too fast, too many variables, too few set plays or individual plays for the numbers to really mean as much as people think.

Sean Durzi is Justin Williams on the blueline. Slow, small, but cagey with a heart on a sleeve so big that it beats for the guys next to him. Defensemen get beat all the time, its part of the game. He deserves the opportunity to learn the speed and coverages with experience.

 

[Herby]

To me he is the anti-Nick Shore. He makes things happen. Lots of good things on one end of the ice, lots of bad things on the other end.

Shore is the perfect example of why advanced stats can be heavily flawed. This guy was just not a good hockey player by any stretch but he was defended here strictly because of his strong advanced stats and was able to catch on with what 4-5 teams for that same reason. But each time he went somewhere else teams quickly realized just how useless he was as an NHL player and he moved on.

Advanced analytics have a place and can be a useful tool, but it isn’t everything.

 

[Fishhead]

Shore is the perfect example of why advanced stats can be heavily flawed. This guy was just not a good hockey player by any stretch but he was defended here strictly because of his strong advanced stats and was able to catch on with what 4-5 teams for that same reason. But each time he went somewhere else teams quickly realized just how useless he was as an NHL player and he moved on.

Advanced analytics have a place and can be a useful tool, but it isn’t everything.

Nick Shore rarely had strong overall advanced stats here. He had one season where he put up good analytics but was negative relative the rest of the time. He was passable with Calgary, played 6 games for Ottawa, and was a complete utter tire fire with Toronto and WPG, and his analytics showed that.

Maybe not the best example of an analytics darling.

 

[mysterman2]

Re Durzi- Love the passion and intensity but he should be the first offered up in any trade. With Spence on the way and a bevy of other dmen in the wings- he has the highest trade value and those defensive shortcomings are worrysome. In the NHL you need a minimum of NHL prowess at the position to be passable- otherwise Dominic Lavoie, John Slaney & Andy Delmore would have all been NHL regulars.

 

[Lt Dan]

Re Durzi- Love the passion and intensity but he should be the first offered up in any trade. With Spence on the way and a bevy of other dmen in the wings- he has the highest trade value and those defensive shortcomings are worrysome. In the NHL you need a minimum of NHL prowess at the position to be passable- otherwise Dominic Lavoie, John Slaney & Andy Delmore would have all been NHL regulars.

I had completely forgot about Any elmore

 

[King'sPawn]

WTF. Durzi's first game since last year, gets 3 pts and people are bitching about him. Get him a quality stay home vet as his D partner for 5-5 play and add him to PP1, he can put up 50pts without costing us too many games. Kids is still adapting and learning. He needs a Scuderi type though to offset his defensive lapses.

I have no worries rolling with Doughty- Durzi- Clarke as our RD if we get Size\Mobility\Grit on LD.

Why is there such an aversion to discussing flaws in a player's game? Nobody is saying he was the reason the Kings lost. But his misreads were contributory, is not a direct cause, to a couple goals.

 

[HookKing]

This is your worst post ever.
It is also classic GBH.
It is unnecessarily snarky; you posted this just to be an arrogant, "I gotcha" a-hole.
It ignores what was a valid, easy to read inference...that the player in question (Kupari) is being too passive offensively.
It makes a completely illogical, false comparison between two completely different players in very different career situations...incredibly stupid for someone who prides himself in being the smartest guy in the room.

Please quit this type of posting for 2022-23.

Dude, it would have been much simpler to simply say "You're right".

 

[Johnny Utah]

Durzi is a stud - pair him with Edler. Done.

Moving on - Kings have a problem at forward. Byfield is out sick/injured and Vilard is tearing it up. Once Arvy comes back, Vilardi can't sit and no point putting him on the 4th line in place of Lemieux (who is the only tough player) and Grundstrom (who proved in the playoffs he is an everyday player).

I still think Byfield might end up in Ontario at some point this year.

 

[Noonan61]

Why is there such an aversion to discussing flaws in a player's game? Nobody is saying he was the reason the Kings lost or that he should be traded. But his misreads were contributory, is not a direct cause, to a couple goals.

I wont forget him just straight up giving up on the McDavid goal in game 7.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Re Durzi- Love the passion and intensity but he should be the first offered up in any trade. With Spence on the way and a bevy of other dmen in the wings- he has the highest trade value and those defensive shortcomings are worrysome. In the NHL you need a minimum of NHL prowess at the position to be passable- otherwise Dominic Lavoie, John Slaney & Andy Delmore would have all been NHL regulars.

Wouldn't Spence then have higher trade value?

 

[FSL KINGS]

Durzi is a stud - pair him with Edler. Done.

Moving on - Kings have a problem at forward. Byfield is out sick/injured and Vilard is tearing it up. Once Arvy comes back, Vilardi can't sit and no point putting him on the 4th line in place of Lemieux (who is the only tough player) and Grundstrom (who proved in the playoffs he is an everyday player).

I still think Byfield might end up in Ontario at some point this year.

Grundström, Kupari, Vilardi "4th" line?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Since both players are being discussed

Nick Shore and Durzi are polar opposites

NOTHING happened when Nick Shore was on the ice. There's value on that to high-event teams, hence why Winnipeg, Ottawa, even Tor gave him some games to see if there was a fit.

EVERYTHING happens when Durzi is on the ice. While that's dangerous and unlikely to stick on a team with deeper playoff aspirations, as I pointed out elsewhere, he's a specialist--if used as the weapon he is, that is, sheltered and deployed appropriately, he's deadly. If he's used as the Kings like to use everyone--everyone has to be a good two-way little checker before they can score--he's utterly worthless. Someone pointed out the team is likely to outgrow him and I think Clarke is already sort of making that happen, but even now he's a one dimensional liability and no one is really arguing that, we're just arguing that good coaching can augment his utility to mostly positive results. Obviously him and Bjornfot are stupidly toxic together for a lot of reasons.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Well this was the forum where anytime that the best defenseman of the 2010’s would make a defensive mistake it would be magnified and followed by comments like

“I don’t care how many points he scores, I wouldn’t want him on my team”

“A defenseman’s only job is to play defense”

This was as that defenseman was carrying a garbage roster to within one goal of the SCF.

So not sure why you would expect Durzi to appreciated. But I agree, he added a lot to this team last year and was without question a positive asset that greatly helped the team get to the playoffs following the loss of Doughty.

The job of any player on a team is to help that team win as many games as possible, and it doesn’t have to be only one way.

But we had a dozen seasons of get it in deep and chip it out of the glass being glorified, so it’s kind of hardwired in some thinking.

Lmao Herby

You missed the part where we were saying he's one of the 2-3 best dmen in the league so when you're splitting hairs over the most elite of the elite, little things like "giving up 15 more even strength goals than literally any other dman in the league" matters.

But if you want to compare EK to Durzi, that's on you.

 

[johnjm22]

Nick Shore and Durzi are polar opposites

NOTHING happened when Nick Shore was on the ice. There's value on that to high-event teams, hence why Winnipeg, Ottawa, even Tor gave him some games to see if there was a fit.

EVERYTHING happens when Durzi is on the ice. While that's dangerous and unlikely to stick on a team with deeper playoff aspirations, as I pointed out elsewhere, he's a specialist--if used as the weapon he is, that is, sheltered and deployed appropriately, he's deadly. If he's used as the Kings like to use everyone--everyone has to be a good two-way little checker before they can score--he's utterly worthless. Someone pointed out the team is likely to outgrow him and I think Clarke is already sort of making that happen, but even now he's a one dimensional liability and no one is really arguing that, we're just arguing that good coaching can augment his utility to mostly positive results. Obviously him and Bjornfot are stupidly toxic together for a lot of reasons.

Shore was a kitty cat. Durzi is a tiger.

I'm not convinced Durzi can't be made serviceable defensively. But a player like Shore can't be made to give you some scoring.

The tiger can be tamed, but you can't paint stripes on a kitty cat.

 

[mysterman2]

Wouldn't Spence then have higher trade value?

The point is- Spence is going to be long term top 4 player on the Kings....Durzi isnt. You trade Durzi because you have better more well rounded players to take his spot. Would you trade Durzi for a solid nhl journeyman backup goalie right about now?

 

[johnjm22]

Shore is the perfect example of why advanced stats can be heavily flawed. This guy was just not a good hockey player by any stretch but he was defended here strictly because of his strong advanced stats and was able to catch on with what 4-5 teams for that same reason. But each time he went somewhere else teams quickly realized just how useless he was as an NHL player and he moved on.

Advanced analytics have a place and can be a useful tool, but it isn’t everything.

I think of all the major sports, analytics in hockey are the least useful.

In football and baseball everything is situational. It's easier to quantify. Hockey not so much.

They do have their place though, but the eyeball test still matters.

 

[Herby]

Lmao Herby

You missed the part where we were saying he's one of the 2-3 best dmen in the league so when you're splitting hairs over the most elite of the elite, little things like "giving up 15 more even strength goals than literally any other dman in the league" matters.

But if you want to compare EK to Durzi, that's on you.

You can go back and read the countless number of EK posts that were made here over the years because the rest of the league had the audacity to think he was better than DD.

Stuff like

“I wouldn’t want him on my team”
“He doesn’t help his team win”
“He’s just a forward playing D”
“He’s a liability on the ice”

Funny there weren’t many posts highlighting the positive things he did.

The people making those posts sure didn’t seem like a group of people that thought he was a top 2-3 d-man in the league.

The point is, the object of the game is to help your team win games. Erik Karlsson made what was a terrible roster into a respectable one, one that took the Pens to Game 7 OT. Sean Durzi is not EK, but he also did help the Kings win games last year by adding an element that the Kings had sorely been lacking for years due to a philosophy that was built around dump it in and chip it out. He was a breath of fresh air.

 

[Fishhead]

Durzi is a stud - pair him with Edler. Done.

Moving on - Kings have a problem at forward. Byfield is out sick/injured and Vilard is tearing it up. Once Arvy comes back, Vilardi can't sit and no point putting him on the 4th line in place of Lemieux (who is the only tough player) and Grundstrom (who proved in the playoffs he is an everyday player).

I still think Byfield might end up in Ontario at some point this year.

Both Moore and Iafallo can move up and down the lineup, but yeah they have an extra body. It can be addressed next year by not re-signing Moore, and we know there will be injuries.

Iafallo or Moore could easily move down the lineup, they have the skillsets to do so. That could be done during certain games where Lemieux's presence isn't necessary to form a 4th energy/scoring line. Easier to spread out ice time as well.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Iaffalo has nothing in the pre-season. Same with Moore. Hope they turn it around.

No one who had a good year last year has stood out so far in the brief pre-season except Quick.

 

[Kurrilino]

Even though it's preseason, Cal looks like a guy who's feeling the pressure.

He's trying really hard, overreacting, and has terrible body language.

I'm usually a big "preseason doesn't matter" guy, but there's a few things you can glean from it.

Totally agree.

I am one of the biggest Cal supporters since the beginning but this is fading fast.
The most concerning problems are that he didn't master the basics at age of 27.
He really has to learn to glue down the pads to the ice when butterflying and i have never seen an non existing glove hand like that. Keep you freaking glove hand up when squaring up to a shooter is basics in peewee hockey camps.

 

[King'sPawn]

You can go back and read the countless number of EK posts that were made here over the years because the rest of the league had the audacity to think he was better than DD.

Stuff like

“I wouldn’t want him on my team”
“He doesn’t help his team win”
“He’s just a forward playing D”
“He’s a liability on the ice”

Funny there weren’t many posts highlighting the positive things he did.

The people making those posts sure didn’t seem like a group of people that thought he was a top 2-3 d-man in the league.

The point is, the object of the game is to help your team win games. Erik Karlsson made what was a terrible roster into a respectable one, one that took the Pens to Game 7 OT. Sean Durzi is not EK, but he also did help the Kings win games last year by adding an element that the Kings had sorely been lacking for years due to a philosophy that was built around dump it in and chip it out. He was a breath of fresh air.

It was usually in the context of Doughty versus Karlsson and people mocking how Ottawa fans acted like Karlsson was the undisputed best player in the world.

Like Stutzle, his shortcomings were forgiven because he put up a ton of points. But he had more shortcomings than some fans wanted to admit.

You're leaving out an awful lot of context so you can take a generalized pot shot at Kings fans.

 

[kings11]

The obsession fans have developed for numbers to "prove" their opinions has really harmed their ability to see things for what they are. No sport has less to do with analytics than hockey, its too fast, too many variables, too few set plays or individual plays for the numbers to really mean as much as people think.

Sean Durzi is Justin Williams on the blueline. Slow, small, but cagey with a heart on a sleeve so big that it beats for the guys next to him. Defensemen get beat all the time, its part of the game. He deserves the opportunity to learn the speed and coverages with experience.

I’m sorry, but in what f***en universe is Durzi anywhere close to being the type of player JDub was?
JDub had a very high hockey IQ, was a clutch player ala Robert Horry, was a vocal and respected leader… etc..

I can see similarities to Ghost but that’s as far as I’d go

 

[YAYSAY]

Iaffalo has nothing in the pre-season. Same with Moore. Hope they turn it around.

No one who had a good year last year has stood out so far in the brief pre-season except Quick.

It seems pretty obvious that the top-6 players don't try as much as others. They're not fighting for a job really, they have more to lose by going hard.

 

[Sybil227]

BTW, Martin Frk on waivers today from STL. We should pick him up. I hear he has a great shot. <cough><cough>