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Since both players are being discussed

Nick Shore and Durzi are polar opposites

NOTHING happened when Nick Shore was on the ice. There's value on that to high-event teams, hence why Winnipeg, Ottawa, even Tor gave him some games to see if there was a fit.

EVERYTHING happens when Durzi is on the ice. While that's dangerous and unlikely to stick on a team with deeper playoff aspirations, as I pointed out elsewhere, he's a specialist--if used as the weapon he is, that is, sheltered and deployed appropriately, he's deadly. If he's used as the Kings like to use everyone--everyone has to be a good two-way little checker before they can score--he's utterly worthless. Someone pointed out the team is likely to outgrow him and I think Clarke is already sort of making that happen, but even now he's a one dimensional liability and no one is really arguing that, we're just arguing that good coaching can augment his utility to mostly positive results. Obviously him and Bjornfot are stupidly toxic together for a lot of reasons.
Put Durzi with Roy and I think they will be a good tandem. What Durzi gives up in defensive lapses he will make up in offensive situations. I think he would be a good trade piece to dangle, but i'm more curious to see how the first few weeks unfold before trying to make changes.
 
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It’s just poor observations, no different from fans trashing Brown for instance. I don’t see why trashing another teams player is ever needed to prop up one’s own. I also don’t think it was people who believed a player was top 2-3 before trashing him. No one says stuff like that if you think the player is a superstar.

My point was in defense of Durzi that he won’t be popular with many in a fanbase that didn’t think highly of the Hall of Fame version of Durzi. But Yes, I think this board has a bias against players who play a certain way and Durzi is kind of falling victim to unfair criticism.
Yeah, people see what they want to see. Last night was an example, because those trashing his first game in 6 months somehow forgot that it was his first game in 6 months. Last season Durzi got better as the year went on, and I expect him to do they same this year. He hasn't even played 82 games, yet many are calling him Corvo 2.0. I see him in a few years to be an average defenseman who can score. If that's what we get , most will be fine with it.
 
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Put Durzi with Roy and I think they will be a good tandem. What Durzi gives up in defensive lapses he will make up in offensive situations. I think he would be a good trade piece to dangle, but i'm more curious to see how the first few weeks unfold before trying to make changes.
Durzi and Roy haven't played together often, but when they did they put up solid metrics. They didn't really translate to goals for/against, however. One thing is certain, and that's Durzi and Bjornfot shouldn't even sit near each other on the bench. Not one good thing comes out of that pairing.

The biggest problem with Durzi is he is going to drag his partner's numbers down at ES regardless of who he's playing with. He simply isn't an easy guy to play with, the chaos is fun to watch but as a player, you want at least an idea of what your partner is going to do. He's amazing on the PP, probably the best we have on the back end right now, but there is definitely a Durzi tax.
 
Yeah, people see what they want to see. Last night was an example, because those trashing his first game in 6 months somehow forgot that it was his first game in 6 months. Last season Durzi got better as the year went on, and I expect him to do they same this year. He hasn't even played 82 games, yet many are calling him Corvo 2.0. I see him in a few years to be an average defenseman who can score. If that's what we get , most will be fine with it.
Hey, Corvo was fine. I think he's a good comparable, really.

Here is the big question with Durzi: If the youth pans out and the team starts to be really formidable, is Durzi good enough to be a part of a contending defense? I honestly don't think so.
 
Calling it what it is isn't not appreciating it. The question for guys like that is always A. Can they outscore their issues and B. can they at least iron out the kinks enough to not be a liability when it matters most.

I mean that is the issue, Durzi had the second worst ES GF% on the blue line last season at 43.02%. He was on ice for 49 goals against which was the most on the team and his GA/60 was 3.06, by far the worst on the whole team. In that way he is reminiscent of Karlsson who was always at or near the top in GA's, the difference is EK was putting up a point per game. I like Durzi's feistiness and his exciting play, but he is going to need to either score more or cut down on his goals against.
 
Durzi has played all of ONE preseason game and he’s tradebait. I love this message board.
I mean tbf, his play last year(on the surface) and his relatively low cost contract make him a trade sooner rather later type player. Get the most out of his value. Just sayin.

I like his moxie though.
 
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I like Durzi for what he is. Which is a third pairing offensive defenseman and powerplay specialist with some jam. The problem is RHD is the most competitive position on the roster. I think Clarke is better than him right now and in a season will skyrocket up the depth chart. I think Spence will be better in the very near future. Spence has pretty much aced every level that he's been at and quickly. I don't think it's a slight on Durzi that folks feel there are players in the immediate pipeline who they prefer on the third pairing.
 
Durzi and Roy haven't played together often, but when they did they put up solid metrics. They didn't really translate to goals for/against, however. One thing is certain, and that's Durzi and Bjornfot shouldn't even sit near each other on the bench. Not one good thing comes out of that pairing.

The biggest problem with Durzi is he is going to drag his partner's numbers down at ES regardless of who he's playing with. He simply isn't an easy guy to play with, the chaos is fun to watch but as a player, you want at least an idea of what your partner is going to do. He's amazing on the PP, probably the best we have on the back end right now, but there is definitely a Durzi tax.

Nuh-uh. Just need to pair him with someone who is in a contract year. Then with deflated numbers they re-sign for cheaper! I nominate Mickey Anderson this year. Next year, Matt Roy.
 
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Durzi has played all of ONE preseason game and he’s tradebait. I love this message board.

There were 154 defensemen who played at least 900 minutes last season, Durzi had the third worst GA/60 Rel at .91, while at the same time having a negative GF/60 Rel. He is a fun player and I would love for him to develop further because he is so damn exciting and brings intensity the team is sorely lacking. However, it's not just one preseason game people are responding to.
 
There were 154 defensemen who played at least 900 minutes last season, Durzi had the third worst GA/60 Rel at .91, while at the same time having a negative GF/60 Rel. He is a fun player and I would love for him to develop further because he is so damn exciting and brings intensity the team is sorely lacking. However, it's not just one preseason game people are responding to.
Are you accusing Axl for intentionally misrepresenting peoples opinion? He would never :o
 
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I would suggest knowing more about what players you compare.
One is a ballsy, offensive player with glaring defensive shortcomings.
The other was a highly regarded but oft injured player, who was an integral part of two cup winning teams.

Not sure how anyone can compare them but go ahead and enlighten me since there must be something I’m missing here

Williams and Durzi are identical in that both are slight, foot slow, but engage in the physical areas of the ice without concern while using outstanding edge work to create very small spaces in tight spots to move the puck. Watch them, they look the same - always moving forwards, very little shifting from side to side. They skate almost identically.

Neither has physical gifts but both rely on guile and guts to make their plays, and those plays are made without frivolity, they are direct movements to move pucks into high danger areas. No extra passes or hope plays. Its all business with the puck, constant funneling to the net.

Both rely on timing and vision to create their chances, both see things offensively a beat faster than others and confidently attack despite being a step slower than most of their opponents.

Durzi demonstrated a knack for big time clutch plays, no need to describe Williams to you there. Its a character thing, being direct, confident, edgy, willing to take abuse and give it back - to stand up for their teammates despite smaller statures. Being not just well liked by their teammates, but infectiously positive and 100% "ferda".

Both have "it" on spades and thats what carries them past their physical limitations. Williams wasn't a Cup winner until he was - but as an avid Canes fan who was ecstatic when we got him, you know a gamer when you see one. Williams always had it, Durzi has it too. The team was elevated by his presence, he lifted them. Its an intagible this team had frankly been missing without Williams and Richards, guys who punch above their weight. Adding Durzi and Danault made a massive difference.

Make sense yet?

That being said, Durzi has some obvious issues but almost all defensemen do early on. All he has to do is reach competency in his own zone. Its a ways away for sure, but his other attributes are too valuable to lose even if Clarke and Spence are "better" players.
 
Durzi has played all of ONE preseason game and he’s tradebait. I love this message board.
Durzi is going to become trade bait because of Clarke, not because of anything else. We already know what we have in him. I don't even take last night into account, he hasn't played in forever.

It's nothing against Durzi, it's just part of building a contending defense. There are several other guys I would trade before him, and I'd be fine with him sticking around as a 7th.
 
Hey, Corvo was fine. I think he's a good comparable, really.

Here is the big question with Durzi: If the youth pans out and the team starts to be really formidable, is Durzi good enough to be a part of a contending defense? I honestly don't think so.
Durzis a fine 3rd pairing guy. On a contending team he's fine. Problem is, we're not contending.
 
Williams and Durzi are identical in that both are slight, foot slow, but engage in the physical areas of the ice without concern while using outstanding edge work to create very small spaces in tight spots to move the puck. Watch them, they look the same - always moving forwards, very little shifting from side to side. They skate almost identically.

Neither has physical gifts but both rely on guile and guts to make their plays, and those plays are made without frivolity, they are direct movements to move pucks into high danger areas. No extra passes or hope plays. Its all business with the puck, constant funneling to the net.

Both rely on timing and vision to create their chances, both see things offensively a beat faster than others and confidently attack despite being a step slower than most of their opponents.

Durzi demonstrated a knack for big time clutch plays, no need to describe Williams to you there. Its a character thing, being direct, confident, edgy, willing to take abuse and give it back - to stand up for their teammates despite smaller statures. Being not just well liked by their teammates, but infectiously positive and 100% "ferda".

Both have "it" on spades and thats what carries them past their physical limitations. Williams wasn't a Cup winner until he was - but as an avid Canes fan who was ecstatic when we got him, you know a gamer when you see one. Williams always had it, Durzi has it too. The team was elevated by his presence, he lifted them. Its an intagible this team had frankly been missing without Williams and Richards, guys who punch above their weight. Adding Durzi and Danault made a massive difference.

Make sense yet?

That being said, Durzi has some obvious issues but almost all defensemen do early on. All he has to do is reach competency in his own zone. Its a ways away for sure, but his other attributes are too valuable to lose even if Clarke and Spence are "better" players.

They have some things in common but...

Williams isn't throwing down with anyone, Durzi had 6 fights in less than a season, JW 10 in his career. He was never a stand-up guy like Durzi. And Durzi hasn't done any big-time clutch plays, he was kind of awful in the playoffs, when Williams never was. They aren't even in the same stratosphere in that regard.

I get that Durzi is something we've lacked for a long time, but describing him as something he isn't is just silly. And of course it's opinion, but players who have "it" make the league a lot earlier than 23. JW was in the league when he was 19 and damn effective. If Durzi had "it" in spades he would have made it a long time ago.

Durzi's development has been slow even by NHL defense standards, and he's likely done. It's WYSIWYG. And that's fine, he can definitely be an asset. But I wouldn't ever really compare him to a guy who has done what JW has. There's a good chance Durzi isn't even in the league in 3 years.
 
This is your worst post ever.
It is also classic GBH.
It is unnecessarily snarky; you posted this just to be an arrogant, "I gotcha" a-hole.
It ignores what was a valid, easy to read inference...that the player in question (Kupari) is being too passive offensively.
It makes a completely illogical, false comparison between two completely different players in very different career situations...incredibly stupid for someone who prides himself in being the smartest guy in the room.

Please quit this type of posting for 2022-23.

Thank god for the ignore button.
 
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Thank god for the ignore button.
I love all the clowns who pimp the ignore option (hi, I’m a p***y), yet have to constantly rant about it. If your skin is that thin, it’s cool, then just ignore…nobody cares how long your list is or how cool you think you are because you use it.
 
They have some things in common but...

Williams isn't throwing down with anyone, Durzi had 6 fights in less than a season, JW 10 in his career. He was never a stand-up guy like Durzi. And Durzi hasn't done any big-time clutch plays, he was kind of awful in the playoffs, when Williams never was. They aren't even in the same stratosphere in that regard.

I get that Durzi is something we've lacked for a long time, but describing him as something he isn't is just silly. And of course it's opinion, but players who have "it" make the league a lot earlier than 23. JW was in the league when he was 19 and damn effective. If Durzi had "it" in spades he would have made it a long time ago.

Durzi's development has been slow even by NHL defense standards, and he's likely done. It's WYSIWYG. And that's fine, he can definitely be an asset. But I wouldn't ever really compare him to a guy who has done what JW has. There's a good chance Durzi isn't even in the league in 3 years.
Awesome takedown of that ridiculous take. Extra points for using WYSIWIG in perfect context. :thumbu:
 
Honestly shocked that Doty has stuck around in main camp as long as he has.
Good for him. That first pre season game against Vegas he was running and bullying the Knights, haven’t seen a Kings player do that in years.

Blake made the organization soft as paper. The toughest prospects are Helenius (who has never had a pro fight) and Jack Sparkes, who is only 18 and headed to college.
 
They have some things in common but...

Williams isn't throwing down with anyone, Durzi had 6 fights in less than a season, JW 10 in his career. He was never a stand-up guy like Durzi. And Durzi hasn't done any big-time clutch plays, he was kind of awful in the playoffs, when Williams never was. They aren't even in the same stratosphere in that regard.

I get that Durzi is something we've lacked for a long time, but describing him as something he isn't is just silly. And of course it's opinion, but players who have "it" make the league a lot earlier than 23. JW was in the league when he was 19 and damn effective. If Durzi had "it" in spades he would have made it a long time ago.

Durzi's development has been slow even by NHL defense standards, and he's likely done. It's WYSIWYG. And that's fine, he can definitely be an asset. But I wouldn't ever really compare him to a guy who has done what JW has. There's a good chance Durzi isn't even in the league in 3 years.

The it being referred to there isn't the it that I think you're talking about. It doesn't have much to do with age, or even talent level. It's the swashbuckler attitude.

Williams had 0g and 0pts in his first 5 playoff games. Followed that up with 1g and 6pts in his next 12 playoff games.
 
There were 154 defensemen who played at least 900 minutes last season, Durzi had the third worst GA/60 Rel at .91, while at the same time having a negative GF/60 Rel. He is a fun player and I would love for him to develop further because he is so damn exciting and brings intensity the team is sorely lacking. However, it's not just one preseason game people are responding to.

And I'm sure we agree that he was playing far above his head as a #1 dman, no?

I'm under no delusions that he's something he's not, I don't think anyone here is; I'm just saying I'd like to see what he can bring down the lineup in a different role and that dumpstering him after a preseason game after 6 injury months off is kind of bunk. It's not just one preseason game that people are responding too, but there's a lot of people going in hard with the 'i told you so's based on it. He's earned at least the chance to prove what he can do and doesn't deserve the last three pages of motherf***ing just because people are so overeager to dump an RHD yesterday.
 
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