GDT: Kings Training Camp 2022/2023!

[bmr]

In my view it is still Bjornfot> Roy >Walker >Durzi

Also, I value Durzi very low in terms of skill/talent, because he is very slow-footed.

Humor me - how is Walker better than Durzi? Bjornfot may be better when it is all said and done, but Durzi had a more effective year than him last season.

 

[SmytheKing]

Did you want them to draft Askarov at #2 or Wallstedt at #8?

If Clarke wasn't there I absolutely would have picked Wallstedt at #8. I said as much in that draft thread.

 

[bmr]

If Clarke wasn't there I absolutely would have picked Wallstedt at #8. I said as much in that draft thread.

We have such a great goaltender development staff and extra prospects - i'm sure they will consult with Ranford and company and find another diamond in the rough.

I would have given Campbell $5x5 before giving Petersen his contract. Maybe we get 2 more years from Quick?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

We've got time. Pretty sure Axhole hasn't reached junior high yet.

If he calls ’Junior High’, Middle School, then we’ll know.
‘Junior High’ went away around 2000.

 

[Schrute farms]

With all the crazy Dmen injuries last year, i'm not going ape-shet (yet) over the D logjam. There is no harm in letting spence play in Ontario getting top minutes. If Bjornfot needs to do so to start the season in order to gain some trade value in Walker/Roy, then so be it. The difference in play between these guys is not so dramatic to get all teenaged drama girl over it. It makes sense -- as long as they have a plan (yes, that's potentially giving too much credit).

Clarke is a tough one. He's showing he belongs and he adds something we need play making wise. But we're loaded at D. I am ok sending him down and letting the D work it's way out this year. If injuries, trades or lack of success is incurred, then you bring him up. But if we're successful without him, I see no reason to lose my shet over Clarke not being up to start the season...or even throughout the season.

Durzi -- I still don't know what we have with that guy. I could see him improve his mental mistakes on D and tighten that area up thereby being a fantastic in your face, offensive, spark plug Dman who is infectious with his take no shet attitude. But i could also see him be a guy who gets a concussion from a bad fight or simply being bad mental mistake Muzzin all the time and a liability. I have to see more of him this first half of the season to believe and understand what this guy truly is as a player LT.

All that being said, we have some fantasic trade options available to us mid-season or at the TDL. All these young dmen (Durzi, Spense, Bjornfot, etc.), veteran D (Roy, Walker), young forwards (Kupari, GV, etc.) and draft picks. I have no problem letting us see how things shake out early in the season and having some deserving young guys not make the team. Then once other teams get needy when they start off bad/disappointing or injuries occur, we strike with our vast depth.

 

[bmr]

With all the crazy Dmen injuries last year, i'm not going ape-shet (yet) over the D logjam. There is no harm in letting spence play in Ontario getting top minutes. If Bjornfot needs to do so to start the season in order to gain some trade value in Walker/Roy, then so be it. The difference in play between these guys is not so dramatic to get all teenaged drama girl over it. It makes sense -- as long as they have a plan (yes, that's potentially giving too much credit).

Clarke is a tough one. He's showing he belongs and he adds something we need play making wise. But we're loaded at D. I am ok sending him down and letting the D work it's way out this year. If injuries, trades or lack of success is incurred, then you bring him up. But if we're successful without him, I see no reason to lose my shet over Clarke not being up to start the season...or even throughout the season.

Durzi -- I still don't know what we have with that guy. I could see him improve his mental mistakes on D and tighten that area up thereby being a fantastic in your face, offensive, spark plug Dman who is infectious with his take no shet attitude. But i could also see him be a guy who gets a concussion from a bad fight or simply being bad mental mistake Muzzin all the time and a liability. I have to see more of him this first half of the season to believe and understand what this guy truly is as a player LT.

All that being said, we have some fantasic trade options available to us mid-season or at the TDL. All these young dmen (Durzi, Spense, Bjornfot, etc.), veteran D (Roy, Walker), young forwards (Kupari, GV, etc.) and draft picks. I have no problem letting us see how things shake out early in the season and having some deserving young guys not make the team. Then once other teams get needy when they start off bad/disappointing or injuries occur, we strike with our vast depth.

Clarke can't come back up if they send him back down to his junior team.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Clarke can't come back up if they send him back down to his junior team.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they don't keep Clarke up and I have no issue with it either. This isn't like so many years in the past where our depth is minimal and we 'need' a player like this right now. Depth is off the charts right now and I don't see a need to force moves.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

In my view it is still Bjornfot> Roy >Walker >Durzi

Also, I value Durzi very low in terms of skill/talent, because he is very slow-footed.

I think many have a view of Bjornfot as having limited upside, from this point.
i don’t. He does have a ceiling, but has not reached it. Now 21, he’s shown he’s an nhl defenseman, before he turned 20. That alone, puts him in a small group. I wonder if he would be farther along his path, had he played the last 2 years in the AHL, getting top minutes.
That said, I don’t think he’s been mishandled. Maybe starting in the AHL and getting top minutes and paired with Grans would be good for both of them...so maybe Bjoirnfot’s ceiling is higher than Roy’s and in that case, you could value him more than Roy. (Asset-wise or future wise)

There’s just NO WAY Grans will be able to crack the NHL roster. He’s still not all there, hockey sense wise, or will never be NHL quick. He has the tools and size and some offensive ability. I see him in a package deal this year, or by Summer…and we will probably see a forward prospect or 2 dealt as well. I’m glad the Kings still sign these college free agents….as a guy like Taylor Ward, may make it easier to ‘give up’ on a Madden or other forward prospect and deal one of them. They can’t keep them all. Even though Ward is 24, he has size, has a good shot, offensive instincts and can drop the gloves. Always room for someone like that. And being 24, it’s not like he’s toiled 4 yrs in the AHL…he can possibly play this year or next.

I think by the end of the season, we’ll see some deals. I think at the deadline, if the Kings are 1st or second place and the Kings ’need a piece’, a player as good as Durzi + prospect, goes to get that piece. I also feel the Kings will acquire a good young goalie by Summer.
If Quick has a good year, I can see a 1 yr deal…but know full well, he may get 2 yrs. I’d prefer 1 year deals as we go.

I’ll be the first to say it….this team can compete for the rhymes with ‘pup’.
ok, this way, I didn;t jinx it. Why? Because this team ‘should‘ have beat the Oil
and just added their BEST PLAYER - Fiala and didn’t give up a roster player for him.
He’s honestly an elite NHL player now and still on the rise. 100 points is not out of the question. If Clarke plays, the PP will be better and I don’t fear playing Colorado in a series, come May. They have lost players; Kadri, Burakovsky, Sturm, Abe-kubel and the kings have added. (Evan Rodrigues was a good add, though) The Kings have more players on the rise, Than the AVS do. Anothing can happen in a 7 games series. Remember that the lightning got rolled in 4 straight, after a record season.

 

[bmr]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they don't keep Clarke up and I have no issue with it either. This isn't like so many years in the past where our depth is minimal and we 'need' a player like this right now. Depth is off the charts right now and I don't see a need to force moves.

I started out being okay with it, but after seeing him in the preseason and this game changing 'it' factor he possesses, I just don't know how much experience or benefit he is going to get from going back to Juniors. He looks ready to contribute to this team in a meaningful way. That assist he had on the Fiala goal was a great move. I think If I was Blake and I had to make some decisions on the D this year, I would:

- Put Bjornfot and Spence on the top line in Ontario (20+ mins per night)
- Trade or put Walker on waivers
- Start Clarke on the team and if he is excelling after the first 9 games, keep him
- Most likely trade Durzi

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I started out being okay with it, but after seeing him in the preseason and this game changing 'it' factor he possesses, I just don't know how much experience or benefit he is going to get from going back to Juniors. He looks ready to contribute to this team in a meaningful way. That assist he had on the Fiala goal was a great move. I think If I was Blake and I had to make some decisions on the D this year, I would:

- Put Bjornfot and Spence on the top line in Ontario (20+ mins per night)
- Trade or put Walker on waivers
- Start Clarke on the team and if he is excelling after the first 9 games, keep him
- Most likely trade Durzi

I don't see Durzi traded unless he totally nose-dives in his 2nd season. The org is high on him, new contract reflects that....

 

[TruKingFan]

Yup, it factor is the perfect description.

Its nice to actually be able to realize how good a young player is going to be right away instead of making excuses why they aren't. It's been 14 years since we had a player like that on the Kings, I think many of the fans have forgotten, or shit many may not be old enough to have been a fan in 2008. Clarke is great, and take nothing away from him, but this is how a good #7 pick from the CHL is supposed to look in their D+2, it's not supposed to take as long as it's taken other Kings picks! Now let's just see if the Kings can find it in them to put a player in the NHL without going through their beloved AHL affiliate (which thankfully isn't an option here). According to one of the heads of the development team only McDavid caliber players go to the NHL as teenagers and without AHL seasoning, so we will see, hopefully Muzz isn't consulted.

I also don't know if QB doesn't have the it factor. QB dealt with a very unusual development path that literally no other prospect of his caliber has ever gone through. I am curious to see how he looks like this year and if he develops some swagger if he is able to play better. He not only had to adjust to the on-ice aspect of the NHL last year during a playoff race but also all the other stuff about being an NHL player, including breaking into a very veteran heavy roster.

Of course players with the “it” factor are dime a dozen and every team has one unless prevented by the coach/management to BE one. And to generalize how ALL 7th OA pick (or any 1st rd pick for that matter) should be playing in their D+2 year is just wrong.

Clarke could be a special player and the Kings will have nothing to do it other than drafting him.

And its hilarious to say that QB’s “development path” was ALL dictated by the Kings. Like COVID, a serious injury, etc. didn’t happen. They can’t be excuses since these were out of the Kings control. Take these away and who knows. Point is, what QB will become is still mostly on him.

I hope GV proves you wrong as well since basically you’ve written him off already.

I don't see Durzi traded unless he totally nose-dives in his 2nd season. The org is high on him, new contract reflects that....

Even so, with that contract though, Durzi could be the easiest to trade. We need to hope Walker comes back and can be better than him.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Of course players with the “it” factor are dime a dozen and every team has one unless prevented by the coach/management to BE one. And to generalize how ALL 7th OA pick (or any 1st rd pick for that matter) should be playing in their D+2 year is just wrong.

Clarke could be a special player and the Kings will have nothing to do it other than drafting him.

And its hilarious to say that QB’s “development path” was ALL dictated by the Kings. Like COVID, a serious injury, etc. didn’t happen. They can’t be excuses since these were out of the Kings control. Take these away and who knows. Point is, what QB will become is still mostly on him.

I hope GV proves you wrong as well since basically you’ve written him off already.


Even so, with that contract though, Durzi could be the easiest to trade. We need to hope Walker comes back and can be better than him.

Would be a horrible message to send to the other prospects that you have to worry about re-signing in the next year or two.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Vilardi can continue that pace of play (and frankly, raw foot speed), he might deserve a shot next to Moore and Danault as well.

Fiala - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Vilardi
Iafallo - Byfield - Kaliyev
Lemieux - Lizotte - Grundstrom

Anderson - Doughty
Roy - Clarke
Bjornfot - Spence

Where does Durzi play? Maybe we trade him?

Jim Fox said Vilardi has the second line RW for now.

What happened to Walker?

Everyone is assuming Spence goes down - same with Bjornfot.

The issue is now Durzi vs Clarke.

Anderson-Doughty
Edler-Durzi or Clarke
Walker-Roy

 

[All The Kings Men]

Start the season with 8 D

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Start the season with 8 D

Yep, we certainly don't need Edler every night.

 

[Statto]

It doesn't always work that way. Some guys have 'it' but it doesn't always manifest immediately, particularly for 'big guys,' ie similar to Draisaitl.

Jack Hughes was forced into the NHL and was unmitigated garbage in year one and only mediocre year 2, showing nothing but flashes. No one would argue against him having 'it' now.

I get we're peeved because they're Kings prospects and they should always explode immediately but for a variety of reasons they don't do that.

Why can't we just celebrate one guy kicking ass like young Doughty without denigrating others?




Okay, and I'm on board as much as anyone of course for making slots for youth--but odds are a deal didn't present itself for a guy whose game relies on mobility and missed an entire year with injury. Edler was a great player on pace for 40 points before injury and by all accounts they love him, he's about the only guy that provides size, experience, and PK.

I don't see harm imminent here.

Anderson/Doughty
Walker/Roy
Edler/Clarke--see how he fares
Durzi, it's inevitable someone gets hurt

Only harm I see is losing moverare to waivers, I mean if they didnt' bring back Edler in favor of Moverare I would have been okay with it.

Bjornfot/Spence ripping up the AHL? Yes please. Those guys need to be playing and playing big minutes, not sniffing around the fringes of the NHL roster.

Eventually someone will be traded, waived, or injured, and we'll be happy for the depth. In this case, I think guys are slotted right, this isn't playing Turcotte on the 3rd line LW with schlubs then sending him down to get no PP time, this is playing a guy in all-around 1D situations. We can afford some patience for Blake to make the right move here.

Now with the forwards...

I think you are probably correct. They can afford TB to start in Ontario until they decide what is going to happen to Clarke and also evaluate Walker. Once the Clarke decision is made there will be a butterfly effect as decisions can then be made.

 

[Fishhead]

If they give Clarke 9 games he could easily push someone out. Decision doesn’t need to be made now. We love Durzi for the element he brings, but Clarke is already better than he is on both sides of the puck. Strength is the only thing Clarke needs to work on, and thats just time.

My guess is at least one waiver eligible player is kept on the roster so if Clarke does show well, they can someone down while trades are explored. After last night and how hes been doing in camp, its hard to deny he looks a lot like Drew did when he was breaking in.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It doesn't always work that way. Some guys have 'it' but it doesn't always manifest immediately, particularly for 'big guys,' ie similar to Draisaitl.

Jack Hughes was forced into the NHL and was unmitigated garbage in year one and only mediocre year 2, showing nothing but flashes. No one would argue against him having 'it' now.

I get we're peeved because they're Kings prospects and they should always explode immediately but for a variety of reasons they don't do that.

Why can't we just celebrate one guy kicking ass like young Doughty without denigrating others?




Okay, and I'm on board as much as anyone of course for making slots for youth--but odds are a deal didn't present itself for a guy whose game relies on mobility and missed an entire year with injury. Edler was a great player on pace for 40 points before injury and by all accounts they love him, he's about the only guy that provides size, experience, and PK.

I don't see harm imminent here.

Anderson/Doughty
Walker/Roy
Edler/Clarke--see how he fares
Durzi, it's inevitable someone gets hurt

Only harm I see is losing moverare to waivers, I mean if they didnt' bring back Edler in favor of Moverare I would have been okay with it.

Bjornfot/Spence ripping up the AHL? Yes please. Those guys need to be playing and playing big minutes, not sniffing around the fringes of the NHL roster.

Eventually someone will be traded, waived, or injured, and we'll be happy for the depth. In this case, I think guys are slotted right, this isn't playing Turcotte on the 3rd line LW with schlubs then sending him down to get no PP time, this is playing a guy in all-around 1D situations. We can afford some patience for Blake to make the right move here.

Now with the forwards...

Hughes had a much better D+2 than Byfield did, and a big breakout in D+3. I don’t think this comparison excuses Byfield as much as you think it does.

 

[johnjm22]

If Clarke plays in the NHL, and brings that spark to the team like Doughty in 2008, or Kopitar in 2006, you don't send him back to Junior.

 

[Statto]

I don't see Durzi traded unless he totally nose-dives in his 2nd season. The org is high on him, new contract reflects that....

I’m not sure how I feel about Durzi but the contract also serves to preserve his value in the trade market. Unsigned he’s not worth as much as a two year, reasonable cap hit. In terms of trade value two years at 1.7 is better than 1. Hopefully he tears it up and gives Blake a migraine over what to do with these guys.

 

[Lt Dan]

Jim Fox said Vilardi has the second line RW for now.

What happened to Walker?

Everyone is assuming Spence goes down - same with Bjornfot.

The issue is now Durzi vs Clarke.

Anderson-Doughty
Edler-Durzi or Clarke
Walker-Roy

Durzi/Spence/Clarke may have stolen his spot when he was hurt last season

Where is Bjornfot in your parings?

 

[Schrute farms]

Yep, we certainly don't need Edler every night.

I thought part of the Edler signing this year was that he'd be a limited player. Maybe i misread or misunderstood something. But i seem to recall the plan was that he's back as a #7 guy and would only play occasionally as needed. More of a vet presence and insurance on the back end with experience/size

 

[BringTheReign]

If Vilardi can continue that pace of play (and frankly, raw foot speed), he might deserve a shot next to Moore and Danault as well.

Fiala - Kopitar - Kempe
Moore - Danault - Vilardi
Iafallo - Byfield - Kaliyev
Lemieux - Lizotte - Grundstrom

Anderson - Doughty
Roy - Clarke
Bjornfot - Spence

Where does Durzi play? Maybe we trade him?

I think Spence's skating, edges, and high IQ would make him a great candidate to play the left side on the 3rd pairing. He could partner with Durzi, then Bjornfot could cook longer in Ontario. They're doing the same thing with Quinn Hughes in Vancouver right now. You typically see it done at lower levels so that high-skill offensive defenseman are in a better shooting position and can attack the middle of the ice. There are defensemen good enough to figure it out in the NHL though, and I think Spence would be up for it.

Anderson - Doughty
Roy - Walker / Clarke
Spence - Durzi
Edler

 

[Herby]

Of course players with the “it” factor are dime a dozen and every team has one unless prevented by the coach/management to BE one. And to generalize how ALL 7th OA pick (or any 1st rd pick for that matter) should be playing in their D+2 year is just wrong.

Clarke could be a special player and the Kings will have nothing to do it other than drafting him.

And its hilarious to say that QB’s “development path” was ALL dictated by the Kings. Like COVID, a serious injury, etc. didn’t happen. They can’t be excuses since these were out of the Kings control. Take these away and who knows. Point is, what QB will become is still mostly on him.

I hope GV proves you wrong as well since basically you’ve written him off already.


Even so, with that contract though, Durzi could be the easiest to trade. We need to hope Walker comes back and can be better than him.

Oh joy, the Covid excuse again. Tell me, why did Covid not cause the two players picked right before and after QB to be put into a traditional development path that basically every team in the NHL has used for the last dozen years with those types of picks? So you are saying it was Covid that caused the Kings to go on a different path than teams went on with 24 of the previous 26 players taken in the same spot. So if there had been no Covid then QB makes the NHL at 18? That is an interesting take.

BTW, I was not criticizing QB, in fact I was defending him from another poster who said he didn't have the "it" factor. I get accused of ripping him and calling him a bust even when I defend him, just can't win.

I never said every single top 10 pick should be in the NHL in D+2. Just saying that dominating junior and then taking the next step at 19 without playing significant time in the AHL is not this unheard of thing that you and people like Glen Murray think it is.

Don't believe me?

Since Blake took over as Kings GM there have been 55 players taken with Top 11 picks (we use 11 because the Kings had 4 picks in the Top 11)

Of those 55 players

38 played a game in the NHL in either their D+1 or D+2 season.
29 of those players played over 10 games thus burning a year off ELC

Those numbers will go up even more as there are some 2021 picks in contention or locked into roster spots.

But I'm just wasting my time, no matter how many times the "barely old enough to buy a beer" stuff is debunked, it is just spewed again.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Oh joy, the Covid excuse again. Tell me, why did Covid not cause the two players picked right before and after QB to be put into a traditional development path that basically every team in the NHL has used for the last dozen years with those types of picks? So you are saying it was Covid that caused the Kings to go on a different path than teams went on with 24 of the previous 26 players taken in the same spot. So if there had been no Covid then QB makes the NHL at 18? That is an interesting take.

BTW, I was not criticizing QB, in fact I was defending him from another poster who said he didn't have the "it" factor. I get accused of ripping him and calling him a bust even when I defend him, just can't win.

I never said every single top 10 pick should be in the NHL in D+2. Just saying that dominating junior and then taking the next step at 19 without playing significant time in the AHL is not this unheard of thing that you and people like Glen Murray think it is.

Don't believe me?

Since Blake took over as Kings GM there have been 55 players taken with Top 11 picks (we use 11 because the Kings had 4 picks in the Top 11)

Of those 55 players

38 played a game in the NHL in either their D+1 or D+2 season.
29 of those players played over 10 games thus burning a year off ELC

Those numbers will go up even more as there are some 2021 picks in contention or locked into roster spots.

But I'm just wasting my time, no matter how many times the "barely old enough to buy a beer" thing is debunked it is just spewed again by people who can't take 5 minutes to go research what they are saying but can spend plenty of time ripping into people or making up things they said.

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