Confirmed with Link: Kings Sign Kopitar (2 Years/ $7m AAV)

[Herby]

you guys are much more patient than me.

After three years of asking questions in good faith, when the only answers are variations of changing the subject entirely and 'f*** you,' ignore is the best option.

My favorite thing that we now see on this board is

“Well hindsight is 20/20”
“How was Blake supposed to know”
“Nobody could have seen this”

When there have been people here questioning all of this stuff each step of the way and bringing up these issues which you could see coming a mile away.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Looks to me that Florida is trying to have a core centered around Tkachuk, Barkov, Ekblad as a central core of players their team is centered around.

Vegas is built around Eichel, Stone, and Marchessault.

Seattle is building around Beniers. You know, the first player they drafted two years ago?

Every organization is building a team. That's a platitude, unless you want to identify one who's actively trying to deconstruct a team. Every organization has to identify a core of players they are building the team around to achieve whatever goals they are trying to achieve beyond simply building a team.

The reason why people are saying that the Kings are building around Kopitar is because they are committing the next three years to him making the same salary he earned last year. And the past several seasons, they have counted on Kopitar to be the No. 1 center, playing in all situations. The only time someone will take Kopitar's place is if he gets injured or retires.

So, I do grasp what you're saying. You don't understand what building around players means. And that's okay. But your struggle to grasp the concept of what we're talking about will once again lead to nowhere when you continue to argue with people.

Really? Let's take, FLA, they had Barkov and Eklbad, they traded for Tkachuk...and you think they are now building around those three....because why? The building blocks they've added since they got Tkachuk? Rodriguez? I don't know if I would classify that as building around those trio.....

Every organization is building a team, no one is disputing that, Chicago might have been the only one last year not, but with Bedard, they probably start, and he's probably one you build around,

Tell me who on the Kings is like a Matthews, McDavid, Bedard, MacKinnon etc, that you actively build around, I don't see anyone, do you?

That doesn't mean they are building a team, it just means they aren't centering it around one player (Kopitar) They aren't even centering it around Byfield, or Clarke yet...just because they have players already on the roster, and make roster changes to add/subtract, doesn't mean they are building around...a player.

 

[King'sPawn]

The current situation is not really comparable to 2012, and it did have a better foundation, but you're going to have to do real mental gymnastics to try and say that roster didn't have holes in it and wasn't a work in progress. It clearly was as evidenced by their play on the ice. That's why Dean had to make so many in-season moves to fix it.

Yes, there were flaws, one of such was identifying the pulse of the team and replacing the coach with one who knew how to get players going.

As you pointed out, the circumstances are very different, but I don't see Blake moving on from TMac.

Lombardi also filled the holes in large through internal promotions, when King and Nolan were called up and put in apt roles for them immediately. His biggest final touch was trading for Carter.

With this team, there's no cap to fill big holes. And as for calling up prospects, they still need to roll with a 21-man roster to be cap compliant. Anyone they call up would require either waiving someone/assigning to AHL or assigning a player like Clarke, Spence, and/or Byfield to be cap compliant.

The team is painted in the corner cap wise, even after this year. Thanks to PLD's contract, along with a small decrease in Kopitar's cap hit, players like Byfield needing raises, etc, there's just not much room.

Trading for Richards with 8 years left & Carter with 10 years left means the last rebuild was a failure?

When the Kings traded for Richards and Carter, their No. 1 C was 24, their No 1 D was 22, their No 1 G was 25, and their Captain was 26.

They added to the core.

 

[Sol]

The current situation is not really comparable to 2012, and it did have a better foundation, but you're going to have to do real mental gymnastics to try and say that roster didn't have holes in it and wasn't a work in progress. It clearly was as evidenced by their play on the ice. That's why Dean had to make so many in-season moves to fix it.

wait so you think Dean went out of his way to get two deadbeats in Trent Hunter and Ethan Moreau because there was no one who could fill in those spots? Even they couldn’t fill in their own spots.

Why on earth are we talking about 2012? 2012 had a foundation worth building on and there isn’t shit to build on now. Maybe you enjoy being a contrarian but let’s get back on topic rather than aimlessly discussing stupid topics like there’s a point you’re making.

 

[johnjm22]

Yes, there were flaws, one of such was identifying the pulse of the team and replacing the coach with one who knew how to get players going.

As you pointed out, the circumstances are very different, but I don't see Blake moving on from TMac.

Lombardi also filled the holes in large through internal promotions, when King and Nolan were called up and put in apt roles for them immediately. His biggest final touch was trading for Carter.

With this team, there's no cap to fill big holes. And as for calling up prospects, they still need to roll with a 21-man roster to be cap compliant. Anyone they call up would require either waiving someone/assigning to AHL or assigning a player like Clarke, Spence, and/or Byfield to be cap compliant.

The team is painted in the corner cap wise, even after this year. Thanks to PLD's contract, along with a small decrease in Kopitar's cap hit, players like Byfield needing raises, etc, there's just not much room.

There will still be ways to fenagle the cap, but we will need to catch some breaks.

There's no Sutter coming into save us. That's for sure.

There likely won't be a coaching change because they'll probably be no grounds for it.

But I do think the plan is to tweak the roster as the season goes on, which will be difficult, but not impossible.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

My favorite thing that we now see on this board is

“Well hindsight is 20/20”
“How was Blake supposed to know”
“Nobody could have seen this”

When there have been people here questioning all of this stuff each step of the way and bringing up these issues which you could see coming a mile away.

It is 20/20, because the moves that were made, didn't pan out, do you think anyone is talking about Center depth or the PLD if any move the draft picks panned out, as you have said in the past, they haven't panned out....

People lament, OMG the goaltending but ignore the fact that he took 5 goaltenders in 7 drafts....that's not ignoring the problem, it's not necessarily fixing it unless you get the right player, but it sure as hell ain't ignoring it

 

[bland]

They are completely different situations.

2012 was on the rise with young, star players taking ownership of their roles within the franchise and a GM giving.them enough time to learn exactly what was needed before striking.

The current version has the same players on the decline, dying a slow death due to their quality, but dying all the same. Instead of issuing the DNR and moving Kopitar then Doughty, they doubled down on overly expensive preservation methods to elongate a lower quality of life, all while ending up in the exact same place anyway.

And I have been saying that this exact scenario would unfold since the start of the 15-16 season. No hindsight, no revisions.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

They are completely different situations.

2012 was on the rise with young, star players taking ownership of their roles within the franchise and a GM giving.them enough time to learn exactly what was needed before striking.

The current version has the same players on the decline, dying a slow death due to their quality, but dying all the same. Instead of issuing the DNR and moving Kopitar then Doughty, they doubled down on overly expensive preservation methods to elongate a lower quality of life, all while ending up in the exact same place anyway.

And I have been saying that this exact scenario would unfold since the start of the 15-16 season. No hindsight, no revisions.

What players are you speaking of, Kopitar who was in the league 6 years....Doughty who was in the league for 4 years, Quick who was in the league 4 years, or Brown who was in the league 6 years?

You are right, completely different situations, should we wait for another 2-3 years so the youngsters now, get to that point, or are we just washing them all away?

 

[BigKing]

I’ll answer this since the bootlickers don’t ever want to have any kind of hard conviction to their statements.

PLD. The biggest contract for a long time. A massive haul. This is going to be PLDs team with hope that somehow Byfield becomes a high caliber player while giving him no oppurtunity to become that player.

Get Bluc in an honest moment and the answer to the future of this team as building blocks is PLD at 1C and Clarke at 1D.

For the immediate future, they are hoping both these guys pop while Kopitar and Doughty are still strong.

 

[Sol]

Get Bluc in an honest moment and the answer to the future of this team as building blocks is PLD at 1C and Clarke at 1D.

For the immediate future, they are hoping both these guys pop while Kopitar and Doughty are still strong.

Yeah this is going to be PLDs and Clarkes team. I think it’s pretty obvious they have given up on byfield being that guy. I think what they will do if all things go well is to have PLD 1c Danault 2/3C Byfield 2/3C. Danault is going to be our Handzus

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There will still be ways to fenagle the cap, but we will need to catch some breaks.

There's no Sutter coming into save us. That's for sure.

There likely won't be a coaching change because they'll probably be no grounds for it.

But I do think the plan is to tweak the roster as the season goes on, which will be difficult, but not impossible.

Others have already commented on the ages etc but I think the biggest difference is cap flexibility.

with respect I think 'difficult' is going to be an understatement.

The 2013 team had 10 million going in, i was searching high and low and didn't want to do the math myself and couldn't find exact # for 2012 but both 2012 and 2013 teams had room to add throughout the season and at the deadline.

This team won't really be in a position to 'add' without major pieces leaving, too. That's a tough spot to be in at the deadline, can shake up a team chemistry massively

 

[BigKing]

Yeah this is going to be PLDs and Clarkes team. I think it’s pretty obvious they have given up on byfield being that guy. I think what they will do if all things go well is to have PLD 1c Danault 2/3C Byfield 2/3C. Danault is going to be our Handzus

I think they will be happy with Byfield turning into a 60 point wing that isn't a defensive liability.

 

[johnjm22]

Others have already commented on the ages etc but I think the biggest difference is cap flexibility.

with respect I think 'difficult' is going to be an understatement.

The 2013 team had 10 million going in, i was searching high and low and didn't want to do the math myself and couldn't find exact # for 2012 but both 2012 and 2013 teams had room to add throughout the season and at the deadline.

This team won't really be in a position to 'add' without major pieces leaving, too. That's a tough spot to be in at the deadline, can shake up a team chemistry massively

The 2012 team needed rookies to come in a fill out the roster (Voynov, Nolan, King). Voynov made JJ expendable. Thus the Carter trade. Can a rookie make Arvidsson or another vet expendable? Is someone with a significant cap hit going to get injured and put on LTIR at some point? Those are the kind of breaks you have to catch.

Some cap space will accrue through out the season. Players cap hits will be prorated. You just find a way to make things work.

The 11-12 team was better positioned, a more sound foundation, but even that team needed a lot to go their way. Which is often the case with SC teams.

For anyone who's interested, this is the opening game box score for the 11/12 Kings:

Rangers vs. Kings - 10/07/2011 - Los Angeles Kings - Boxscore

The Official Site of the Los Angeles Kings

web.archive.org

Lineup looked something like this based on ES TOI:

Gagne-Kopitar-Williams
Parse-Richards-Brown
Clifford-Stoll-Lewis
Moreau-Richardson-Hunter

Mitchell-Doughty
Scuderi-Johnson
Martinez-Green

Quick
Bernier

I think Penner was injured. Scratches were probably Westgarth, Loktionov, Drewiske?

Pretty significant turnover between that roster and the cup winning one.

 

[Trash Panda]

Others have already commented on the ages etc but I think the biggest difference is cap flexibility.

with respect I think 'difficult' is going to be an understatement.

The 2013 team had 10 million going in, i was searching high and low and didn't want to do the math myself and couldn't find exact # for 2012 but both 2012 and 2013 teams had room to add throughout the season and at the deadline.

This team won't really be in a position to 'add' without major pieces leaving, too. That's a tough spot to be in at the deadline, can shake up a team chemistry massively

With a flat cap in recent years making cap space such a valuable asset, there is about zero chance of a deadline team absorbing salary without massive overpayment.

Rob really has picked a hell of a time to saddle the middle of the roster with expensive, redundant complimentary pieces.

 

[King'sPawn]

My favorite thing that we now see on this board is

“Well hindsight is 20/20”
“How was Blake supposed to know”
“Nobody could have seen this”

When there have been people here questioning all of this stuff each step of the way and bringing up these issues which you could see coming a mile away.

I also like the circular logic.

"The Kings are trying to build a TEAM and aren't trying to build around anyone, because it's a TEAM game."
and
"The Kings don't have a McDavid, Matthews, Bedard, etc to build around."

So, the Kings aren't building around anyone but go full-steam ahead with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way once again, while hoping not to get bounced in the first round for a third straight season. And people are apparently approving of this plan.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I also like the circular logic.

"The Kings are trying to build a TEAM and aren't trying to build around anyone, because it's a TEAM game."
and
"The Kings don't have a McDavid, Matthews, Bedard, etc to build around."

So, the Kings aren't building around anyone but go full-steam ahead with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way once again, while hoping not to get bounced in the first round for a third straight season. And people are apparently approving of this plan.

Yep, that's what I said...oh wait, you can't f***ing read.....

I said they aren't building around anyone, BECAUSE they don't have anyone to really build around....but yea, you keep thinking I said it was because they were building a team.....Holy f***....

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I also like the circular logic.

"The Kings are trying to build a TEAM and aren't trying to build around anyone, because it's a TEAM game."
and
"The Kings don't have a McDavid, Matthews, Bedard, etc to build around."

So, the Kings aren't building around anyone but go full-steam ahead with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way once again, while hoping not to get bounced in the first round for a third straight season. And people are apparently approving of this plan.

I bet you think Vancouver is building around Tyler Myers because they added Nils Hoglander etc....

Just because a player is on the team, doesn't mean the team is building around said player....your only argument that they are building around Kopitar, is they signed him to an extension....

 

[FSL KINGS]

Yeah this is going to be PLDs and Clarkes team. I think it’s pretty obvious they have given up on byfield being that guy. I think what they will do if all things go well is to have PLD 1c Danault 2/3C Byfield 2/3C. Danault is going to be our Handzus

This right here. The problem in your logic. You've convinced yourself of something that isn't true.

Blake is dumb, team is doomed, never win a game again, why can't Blake see goal is bad, just move the team to Quebec. It must get tiring.

I also like the circular logic.

"The Kings are trying to build a TEAM and aren't trying to build around anyone, because it's a TEAM game."
and
"The Kings don't have a McDavid, Matthews, Bedard, etc to build around."

So, the Kings aren't building around anyone but go full-steam ahead with Kopitar and Doughty leading the way once again, while hoping not to get bounced in the first round for a third straight season. And people are apparently approving of this plan.

How many cups do these guys have? Is having a Mcdavid or Mathews important for building around?

Richards & Carter different because they had Kopitar, Doughty, Quick.

King's need a new starting goalie. Not the end of the world. They still have Doughty & Kopitar, who are older, but will be a good bridge until Byfield & Clarke are ready in a couple of years. If they flame out, King's can always grab a player with the extra cap space they won't be taking up.

Oilers & Leafs aren't good models to build around. Tanked too long. Built losing cultures & can't pull out of the nosedive.

AVS had a rocky go of things. Traded two top6 centers, bottomed out. Rebounded, then drafted at 4 in front of the King's then won the cup. There's no planning that. It's just reacting to what came flying at them. 31 teams are going to fail this year. Sit back & enjoy the games.

 

[King'sPawn]

How many cups do these guys have? Is having a Mcdavid or Mathews important for building around?

Richards & Carter different because they had Kopitar, Doughty, Quick.

King's need a new starting goalie. Not the end of the world. They still have Doughty & Kopitar, who are older, but will be a good bridge until Byfield & Clarke are ready in a couple of years. If they flame out, King's can always grab a player with the extra cap space they won't be taking up.

Oilers & Leafs aren't good models to build around. Tanked too long. Built losing cultures & can't pull out of the nosedive.

AVS had a rocky go of things. Traded two top6 centers, bottomed out. Rebounded, then drafted at 4 in front of the King's then won the cup. There's no planning that. It's just reacting to what came flying at them. 31 teams are going to fail this year. Sit back & enjoy the games.

Good question. I wasn't the one who said the Kings need to have a McDavid or Matthews in order to build a team around.

What I DID say is they need to build the team around a younger core, and instead the team is still centered on Kopitar and Doughty seemingly until they retire. Which is the problem.

 

[Sol]

This right here. The problem in your logic. You've convinced yourself of something that isn't true.

Blake is dumb, team is doomed, never win a game again, why can't Blake see goal is bad, just move the team to Quebec. It must get tiring.


How many cups do these guys have? Is having a Mcdavid or Mathews important for building around?

Richards & Carter different because they had Kopitar, Doughty, Quick.

King's need a new starting goalie. Not the end of the world. They still have Doughty & Kopitar, who are older, but will be a good bridge until Byfield & Clarke are ready in a couple of years. If they flame out, King's can always grab a player with the extra cap space they won't be taking up.

Oilers & Leafs aren't good models to build around. Tanked too long. Built losing cultures & can't pull out of the nosedive.

AVS had a rocky go of things. Traded two top6 centers, bottomed out. Rebounded, then drafted at 4 in front of the King's then won the cup. There's no planning that. It's just reacting to what came flying at them. 31 teams are going to fail this year. Sit back & enjoy the games.

Okay let me lay the ground work for you so you can understand. I don't know if you're being obtuse intentionally or you are just having deducing the information around you.

1. Kopitar's extension. Good player for sure, but still a player who got extended for another 2 years to undoubtedly hold the 1C position. No doubt about. They also signed him before free agency so they had no reason to rush to sign him.

2. The PLD trade. The golden boy not only had a fat price tag on him but the Kings immediately gave him MAX term and everything. That is some deep commitment for him which indicates that he's a big part of the plan moving forward.

3. The Kings still have Danault. Byfield is not going to jump Kopitar the next three years. PLD is not going to get passed by Byfield which is why they gave him the kitchen sink. PLD is the heir apparent with that contract and even more now with Kopitar locking up 1C.

Where does Byfield fit in any of this? He's blocked by Kopitar. Byfield is a center and the Kings just paid the kitchen sink for PLD who is.... a center.

Byfield fits no where on this roster at center. They're going to make him a winger, and the only reason they'd move him to wing is because he's not meeting expectations.


Explain to me why Im wrong. Id love to hear how you think the Kings blocking Byfield's center path has no massive indication that the Kings aren't sold on him at center. He was drafted in 2021 at Second Overall. This next season is going to be the decisive one about who he is truly. Everyone knows this next season is going to be either the boom or bust for him. With all of that known, Kings got PLD and extended Kopitar. Seems like there's not much faith there.

 

[Statto]

Okay let me lay the ground work for you so you can understand. I don't know if you're being obtuse intentionally or you are just having deducing the information around you.

1. Kopitar's extension. Good player for sure, but still a player who got extended for another 2 years to undoubtedly hold the 1C position. No doubt about. They also signed him before free agency so they had no reason to rush to sign him.

2. The PLD trade. The golden boy not only had a fat price tag on him but the Kings immediately gave him MAX term and everything. That is some deep commitment for him which indicates that he's a big part of the plan moving forward.

3. The Kings still have Danault. Byfield is not going to jump Kopitar the next three years. PLD is not going to get passed by Byfield which is why they gave him the kitchen sink. PLD is the heir apparent with that contract and even more now with Kopitar locking up 1C.

Where does Byfield fit in any of this? He's blocked by Kopitar. Byfield is a center and the Kings just paid the kitchen sink for PLD who is.... a center.

Byfield fits no where on this roster at center. They're going to make him a winger, and the only reason they'd move him to wing is because he's not meeting expectations.


Explain to me why Im wrong. Id love to hear how you think the Kings blocking Byfield's center path has no massive indication that the Kings aren't sold on him at center. He was drafted in 2021 at Second Overall. This next season is going to be the decisive one about who he is truly. Everyone knows this next season is going to be either the boom or bust for him. With all of that known, Kings got PLD and extended Kopitar. Seems like there's not much faith there.

With QB if they feel he’s ready for say 2C in 24/5 they can move Danault and have PLD, QB and Kopitar as the middle ‘core’. That’s where this goes is QB develops as they hope. Danault will have a very moveable contract as it now looks like good value in terms of AAV and the term will have reduced to being something teams will take as the cap goes up. Sure they now have cover if QB develops in the wrong direction but it’s far from ‘set’ that he’s no longer a C. Having QB at C on a bridge deal and moving Danault would also help with the cap.

Not saying it will happen but it’s not a contrived scenario. Points 1 & 2 you will get no argument from me on.

 

[Fishhead]

I don't get worked up about it anymore because building a cup winner isn't like it was 10-15 years ago. It's evolved, and everyone has their idea of the best way to do it, but there isn't one best way anymore.

Vegas didn't build around young players, basically mercenaries. Ruthless use of players and LTIR. Tampa sure did though, great drafting regardless of their tax advantage. Colorado did too, at least with forwards and D. But they did bring in a lot of support. They had to rebuild a rebuild though, and they had a boatload of high picks. St Louis was in the middle. Washington took what, 14 seasons with Ovie? They are actually closer to what the Kings are doing, having a few older, but still productive guys and filling them in with other parts. Pittsburgh was always going to have a chance with a couple of generational centers.

And look at some of the teams that made the finals. Florida was nearly all picks of other teams. Dallas, same, lots of key guys from other teams. Montreal was another mercenary build.

Edmonton had ridiculous draft positions with a crazy young core and nothing. Buffalo had a lot of top picks and totally failed. Good draft picks and drafting is helpful of course, but amassing high draft picks and sucking for years is absolutely no guarantee

The cap has completely matured, and at first, drafting was key. But now it just isn't as important as it was a decade ago because of how contracts have changed. It used to be that younger guys didn't get big money so you still had space to round out the team, but now younger guys who produce are getting paid. Look at Ottawa - Stutzle, Tkachuk, Norris, and Chabot make 39% of their cap - all on 2nd contracts. When Kopitar, Doughty, Brown, and Quick signed their 2nd's, it was around 31%. That's a huge difference.

Building with your own draft picks I feel is still the most successful overall, but if that falls apart for whatever reason (injuries, players not developing, etc.) you have just as good chances by bringing in guys like Fiala and PLD via trades using draft capital as you do restarting the whole thing.

 

[KINGS17]

I love the hindsight is 20/20 BS.

It's posted by the same people who think this was a good signing and the Kings are on their way to be contenders again.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I love the hindsight is 20/20 BS.

It's posted by the same people who think this was a good signing and the Kings are on their way to be contenders again.

It is 20/20 BS.....and I've already said I didn't like the signing....so...there is that, but apparently facts don't mean what you think they mean

 

[Kurrilino]

For the immediate future, they are hoping both these guys pop while Kopitar and Doughty are still strong.

We really should define "strong"
Both players have been murdered in playoff 2 years in a row being 30+ age.

This is suddenly supposed to get better?