Confirmed with Link: Kings Sign Kopitar (2 Years/ $7m AAV)

[Sol]

Here's a fact you fail to acknowledge: the Kings blueline this year will be younger than it's been in previous years. Did you realize that, or did your incessant whining get in the way?

Here why don’t we reductive.

Which corner stone player from the rebuild has a big role on the Kings all these years later?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Here why don’t we reductive.

Which corner stone player from the rebuild has a big role on the Kings all these years later?

One of them is someone you all wanted to trade away in Adrian Kempe, and the other is Mikey Anderson. Then you have the newer guys like Brandt Clarke who will fit that mold, hopefully Byfield and maybe Kaliyev reach those levels. Clarke's the closest thing they have to another Doughty, jury is out on Byfield being able to fill Kopitar's shoes, but at the very least, they're going to be using Byfield and Kaliyev in productive roles next season to replace the offense provided from Vilardi and Iafallo.

I'm critical of the coaching, the PK, the drafting/development over the years, but to think this team is worse off now than they were when the rebuild started is a fallacy. The Kings still iced one of the younger teams last season, and they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons for the first time since 2013-2014, and they're still a young team.

Bringing Kopitar back isn't going to hold the team back. And we've all seen how overhyped having a stocked prospect pool can be. That doesn't guarantee anything. If we're using Vegas as an example of how a successful team should be built, then shouldn't you guys be asking for the Kings to follow their model of throwing away young players and picks for immediate impact players? Pick a side.

 

[Sol]

One of them is someone you all wanted to trade away in Adrian Kempe, and the other is Mikey Anderson. Then you have the newer guys like Brandt Clarke who will fit that mold, hopefully Byfield and maybe Kaliyev reach those levels. Clarke's the closest thing they have to another Doughty, jury is out on Byfield being able to fill Kopitar's shoes, but at the very least, they're going to be using Byfield and Kaliyev in productive roles next season to replace the offense provided from Vilardi and Iafallo.

I'm critical of the coaching, the PK, the drafting/development over the years, but to think this team is worse off now than they were when the rebuild started is a fallacy. The Kings still iced one of the younger teams last season, and they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons for the first time since 2013-2014, and they're still a young team.

Bringing Kopitar back isn't going to hold the team back. And we've all seen how overhyped having a stocked prospect pool can be. That doesn't guarantee anything. If we're using Vegas as an example of how a successful team should be built, then shouldn't you guys be asking for the Kings to follow their model of throwing away young players and picks for immediate impact players? Pick a side.

Kempe was not a part of the rebuild. Funny you’d throw him in there. They drafted Kempe the same offseason they won the cup. By the way no shit they’re better now than the beginning of the rebuild. That’s not the issue, they’re better now but the failed draft means that the Kings are going to have to rebuild again sooner rather than later since it’s a failed rebuild. You can’t just constantly buy players.

I said cornerstone players from the rebuild. The top guys.

Vilardi center, gone.
Byfield center, not anymore
Turcotte, as far as we know, nothing.
Clarke, no established role as of yet.

These are the corner stone players from the rebuild. Not one of them is established. One was moved for a center and Byfield is pretty much done at center, you can twist that as much as you like but that shows where he is as a player.

Turcotte, we all know his story.

Clarke might start the year on the Kings.


This is the Kings rebuild. This has what has come from it. Mikey Anderson debatably is the only established player. There’s nothing else.

Years later, top picks later, 4th rounder Mikey Anderson is the only establish player. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do this is a failed rebuild and no matter what trades you do you will not accomplish shit without home grown top end talent. That’s why the Kings are completely cash strapped. They have no top end homegrown players. they have to buy them externally. This is a recipe for failure not for success. Especially when you consider Kopitar is still the number one center lmfao. Great rebuild.

But obviously you listed Kempe hilariously. The last pick of the first round the year the Kings won the cup as a “rebuild era” player. Insanity.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kempe was not a part of the rebuild. Funny you’d throw him in there. They drafted Kempe the same offseason they won the cup.

I said cornerstone players from the rebuild. The top guys.

Vilardi center, gone.
Byfield center, not anymore
Turcotte, as far as we know, nothing.
Clarke, no established role as of yet.

These are the corner stone players from the rebuild. Not one of them is established. One was moved for a center and Byfield is pretty much done at center, you can twist that as much as you like but that shows where he is as a player.

Turcotte, we all know his story.

Clarke might start the year on the Kings.


This is the Kings rebuild. This has what has come from it. Mikey Anderson debatably is the only established player. There’s nothing else.

Years later, top picks later, 4th rounder Mikey Anderson is the only establish player. No matter how much mental gymnastics you do this is a failed rebuild and no matter what trades you do you will not accomplish shit without home grown top end talent. That’s why the Kings are completely cash strapped. They have no top end homegrown players. they have to buy them externally. This is a recipe for failure not for success. Especially when you consider Kopitar is still the number one center lmfao. Great rebuild.

But obviously you listed Kempe hilariously. The last pick of the first round the year the Kings won the cup as a “rebuild era” player. Insanity.

I list Kempe because the team didn't give up on him and his role and impact increased, and he's become a core player. I don't think anyone thought of him as such upon his first couple of seasons here. He evolved as a player, which I understand is hard to fathom under Todd McLellan.

In addition to Mikey Anderson, Matt Roy has also grown into a core player on the blueline, but we'll see how valued he is by the organization with his contract coming up. I imagine extended him might be a priority before next summer.

I agree with Turcotte, and Byfield and Kaliyev are unfinished and unproven thus far, but management has given them a path to succeed in scoring roles with the moves they've made.

It's funny how some on here praise Chicago for the direction they took, like dealing away Dach, but flip out when the Kings do something similar. I guess making upgrades now is shunned upon if you are bringing in proven talent versus the unknown.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I find it funny that all of a sudden due to Vegas winning the cup with their no-name goalies that now this is some new trend. So now the Kings can follow this trend and be like Vegas. As if the Kings and Vegas defensively, depth, etc. and how they play are anything alike.

Why would you find it funny? Teams emulate Cup winners ALL the time, LA won big and heavy, what happened the next few years, teams became big and heavy, Tampa won with skill and speed, what happened, teams because skill and speed..

If a cup winner wins with 4 goaltenders and a rover, what do you think is gonna happen?

 

[Kudelski37]

I think people are underrating how exciting the current roster is.

We get to watch a 20yo Clarke, 25yo PLD, 21yo Byfield, along with Kempe and Fiala in their primes. Plus a handful of other young players potentially on the cusp of impacting, and lots of quality veterans mixed in.

I think it's going to be a fun year.

The defense looks much better on paper. The forwards have been weakened. The goaltending could be as bad as early last season or as good as late last season.

This roster is set up to ride Kopitar into the ground on the PK because they got rid of Kupari who filled a C role on the PK and was effective at faceoffs. PLD is a big step back at faceoffs (49% vs 54.6% for Kupari last year) and has very few minutes of PK in his career. He gets lots of penalties so the PK will be used more often than if the Kings did not acquire him.

I think adding O'Reilly and extending Vilardi after freeing up cap room by trading Arvidsson for future considerations would have produced a much better team. Kopitar would no longer need to kill penalties or have to take as many late defensive face offs while O'Reilly could center Fiala and Vilardi.

Trading for PLD is essentially buying a Porsche engine when your tow truck needs a new engine. It technically checks the box for the need, but it is a complete mismatch for actual requirements to accomplish the job.

The poor coaching is holding back the pk. Playing a very passive 1-1-2 formation will result in another year of horrible PK.

These thoughts are why I am not excited about the upcoming season. Unless the Kings lead the league in scoring or change coaches, their known weaknesses will lead to plenty of losses.

 

[Sol]

I list Kempe because the team didn't give up on him and his role and impact increased, and he's become a core player. I don't think anyone thought of him as such upon his first couple of seasons here. He evolved as a player, which I understand is hard to fathom under Todd McLellan.

In addition to Mikey Anderson, Matt Roy has also grown into a core player on the blueline, but we'll see how valued he is by the organization with his contract coming up. I imagine extended him might be a priority before next summer.

I agree with Turcotte, and Byfield and Kaliyev are unfinished and unproven thus far, but management has given them a path to succeed in scoring roles with the moves they've made.

It's funny how some on here praise Chicago for the direction they took, like dealing away Dach, but flip out when the Kings do something similar. I guess making upgrades now is shunned upon if you are bringing in proven talent versus the unknown.

We’re talking about the rebuild forget about Kempe. Matt Roy is 28 by the way. Why are you listing players that aren’t part of the rebuild? “A path to succeed” a really kind way of saying that they’re taking away responsibility from them as players because we don’t trust them. Unless you think the Kings think so highly of Byfield that they’re getting centers externally and blocking the position from him. If Byfield was viewed that highly they would have given him the chance to become that center.


Here I know the truth is hard for you to admit to but next time you go around being obtuse just remember that none of the main pieces on the rebuild have a big role on the Kings. Turcotte done, Byfield babysat by Kopitar out of his center position, Vilardi a natural center turned wing traded for a center, Clarke probably the best player of them all has played like 10 games.

Clarke is the only player who has a chance to become anything special. None of the other Kings players from the high drafts are doing shit.

That’s your rebuild right there. A recipe for success according to people like you.

 

[YAYSAY]

Why would you find it funny? Teams emulate Cup winners ALL the time, LA won big and heavy, what happened the next few years, teams became big and heavy, Tampa won with skill and speed, what happened, teams because skill and speed..

If a cup winner wins with 4 goaltenders and a rover, what do you think is gonna happen?

Vegas was also a big and heavy team though. Up until the deadline when we got Gavrikov their smallest D-man was the same size as the Kings biggest D-man.
Using 4 goaltenders wasn't why they won, they won in spite of using 4 goalies. Kings also used 4 goalies last season, didn't work out quite the same way.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

We’re talking about the rebuild forget about Kempe. Matt Roy is 28 by the way. Why are you listing players that aren’t part of the rebuild? “A path to succeed” a really kind way of saying that they’re taking away responsibility from them as players because we don’t trust them. Unless you think the Kings think so highly of Byfield that they’re getting centers externally and blocking the position from him. If Byfield was viewed that highly they would have given him the chance to become that center.


Here I know the truth is hard for you to admit to but next time you go around being obtuse just remember that none of the main pieces on the rebuild have a big role on the Kings. Turcotte done, Byfield babysat by Kopitar out of his center position, Vilardi a natural center turned wing traded for a center, Clarke probably the best player of them all has played like 10 games.

Clarke is the only player who has a chance to become anything special. None of the other Kings players from the high drafts are doing shit.

That’s your rebuild right there. A recipe for success according to people like you.

Talking about rebuilds, tell me how Buffalo, DET, and OTT are doing in theirs.....please....

Vegas was also a big and heavy team though. Up until the deadline when we got Gavrikov their smallest D-man was the same size as the Kings biggest D-man.
Using 4 goaltenders wasn't why they won, they won in spite of using 4 goalies. Kings also used 4 goalies last season, didn't work out quite the same way.

I was being a bit facetious, I literally meant icing 4 goaltenders at a time....lol, forgot about their injuries,

But what I am saying is that this league, is a copy cat league, people will look at Vegas, deconstruct what made them successful, then copy it, that's what they do....

 

[YAYSAY]

Talking about rebuilds, tell me how Buffalo, DET, and OTT are doing in theirs.....please....



I was being a bit facetious, I literally meant icing 4 goaltenders at a time....lol, forgot about their injuries,

But what I am saying is that this league, is a copy cat league, people will look at Vegas, deconstruct what made them successful, then copy it, that's what they do....

Yeah maybe, the goalie market is in a weird spot, feels like more and more teams are having issues finding a true #1 goalie. So many teams will think they can just get a no-name goalie and ride him to the cup, but I'd guess more teams will try and emulate the other aspects that helped Vegas win rather than their luck in getting a goalie who was hot at the right time.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

We’re talking about the rebuild forget about Kempe. Matt Roy is 28 by the way. Why are you listing players that aren’t part of the rebuild? “A path to succeed” a really kind way of saying that they’re taking away responsibility from them as players because we don’t trust them. Unless you think the Kings think so highly of Byfield that they’re getting centers externally and blocking the position from him. If Byfield was viewed that highly they would have given him the chance to become that center.


Here I know the truth is hard for you to admit to but next time you go around being obtuse just remember that none of the main pieces on the rebuild have a big role on the Kings. Turcotte done, Byfield babysat by Kopitar out of his center position, Vilardi a natural center turned wing traded for a center, Clarke probably the best player of them all has played like 10 games.

Clarke is the only player who has a chance to become anything special. None of the other Kings players from the high drafts are doing shit.

That’s your rebuild right there. A recipe for success according to people like you.

These are core players that have been mainstays on the team who grew into bigger roles and became pivotal players in the lineup. I guess that fits the slow build description Yannetti discussed recently.

From the rebuild on, which started in 2019, it’s much less. Of all the young players who have been mishandled, the one that has annoyed me most is what they’ve been doing with Bjornfot. He’s starting to look more like Aki Berg and less like the next Mattias Norstrom. I’m hoping he hasn’t been ruined yet by Todd’s mishandling, but he’s someone who should be part of the core, but he certainly hasn’t been treated that way.

There is a possibility to have four players in the lineup from the 2019 draft class in Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo and Spence, with Turcotte and Lee being potential options for call-ups. I wouldn’t label any of them as part of the core quite yet, but yielding those types of results and still having that many young players who can contribute should prove to some of the naysayers and doubters that they do have some promising young players who can make an impact to the team’s success. But I guess you have to be a really cerebral person to realize this.

Now being critical of how the coach utilizes those players definitely has its merits.

 

[KINGS17]

Ah, nothing like the mid-summer optomists coming out to complain.

This team did nothing to address the core issues that prevent them from success, are significantly weaker in areas that were already weak, and contracted itself into a corner so that it cannot improve without further weakening the roster.

Who is going to close out tight games with late leads? Who is going to kill penalties better? Who is going to win board battles to get pucks out of the zone when hemmed on for extended periods?

Who is going to coach the team? What on-ice leaders are going to motivate the team to achieve more as a cohesive unit and go further than where just their skilled players can take them?

A 37 year old, 8 minute a night Trevor Lewis is the only measure taken to address any of the problems that cost this team back to back winnable series.

So yeah, drool over the team on paper while using the out of sight, out of mind method of fandom. No games going now so no proof to point to, just hope. We can HOPE Clarke makes the team and doesn't have the same rookie mistakes that plagued Durzi. Lets HOPE Kaliyev gets a real look to balance out the roster. Lets HOPE that Copley and Talbot can play well enough to get into the playoffs, much less win a round. Lets HOPE that Vancouver and Calgary haven't improved enough to challenge them.

McLellan is still coaching. Nothing is really going to change. Its an inbalanced, soft, front running team that allows the opposition to dictate the pace of a game and a series. But sure, lets ignore all that and hope for the best.

Copley and Talbot...a poor man's version of Fiset and Storr.

Kopitar will likely lead the team in scoring again...and that will prove to some that his $7 million per year contract for two more seasons after this one was another BLuc stroke of genius.

 

[YP44]

this signing still makes me happy

 

[Sol]

These are core players that have been mainstays on the team who grew into bigger roles and became pivotal players in the lineup. I guess that fits the slow build description Yannetti discussed recently.

From the rebuild on, which started in 2019, it’s much less. Of all the young players who have been mishandled, the one that has annoyed me most is what they’ve been doing with Bjornfot. He’s starting to look more like Aki Berg and less like the next Mattias Norstrom. I’m hoping he hasn’t been ruined yet by Todd’s mishandling, but he’s someone who should be part of the core, but he certainly hasn’t been treated that way.

There is a possibility to have four players in the lineup from the 2019 draft class in Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo and Spence, with Turcotte and Lee being potential options for call-ups. I wouldn’t label any of them as part of the core quite yet, but yielding those types of results and still having that many young players who can contribute should prove to some of the naysayers and doubters that they do have some promising young players who can make an impact to the team’s success. But I guess you have to be a really cerebral person to realize this.

Now being critical of how the coach utilizes those players definitely has its merits.

Again you're dodging. The purpose of a rebuild is to draft high and get high end players. That's the purpose. Your team sucks a few years, you draft high, get really good prospects, they take the big roles, and you supplement them through trades to see what else you need.

The Kings have messed up... this part. Ill bold it for you,

What have the Kings done instead? I'll lay that out for you as well.

1. The prospects are failing for the most part outside of Clarke. This is undeniable. Out of all the bluechips we have 1 who looks to be a top pairing high end player.
2. The prospects at no point have taken big roles. I think you can debate this with Byfield, but I think there's more circumstantial evidence proving to be the fact they're reducing his responsibilities and not increasing them. I don't think you can argue that. He's a center drafted top 2, playing wing now with Kopitar. And then the Kings have acquired players that he's not going to be able to leap frog. That's not an improvement in his role as a player that's a reduction.
3. The Kings aren't supplementing their blue chip players. We added Richards to help Kopitar for example and stabilize the top 6. They added Carter to increase scoring. The main core during the Kings championship era was always Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. That's it. Everyone else who was added was to help them. They never lost their spots either via trade. The Kings are NOW acquiring players who will be taking their spots. The high end players from the rebuild pretty much never got a shot.

Kaliyev was 33 overall. The difference between 33 and top 5 are huge. I am looking at the 4 players we drafted high. None of them have a spot besides Clarke, but even then we don't know what spot he's going to be taking.


I don't know how you think the Kings abandoning the rebuild players is a GOOD thing. None of what I said is even debatable. There's not one person here who can argue against the fact that the prospects were abandoned/shafted.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Again you're dodging. The purpose of a rebuild is to draft high and get high end players. That's the purpose. Your team sucks a few years, you draft high, get really good prospects, they take the big roles, and you supplement them through trades to see what else you need.

The Kings have messed up... this part. Ill bold it for you,

What have the Kings done instead? I'll lay that out for you as well.

1. The prospects are failing for the most part outside of Clarke. This is undeniable. Out of all the bluechips we have 1 who looks to be a top pairing high end player.
2. The prospects at no point have taken big roles. I think you can debate this with Byfield, but I think there's more circumstantial evidence proving to be the fact they're reducing his responsibilities and not increasing them. I don't think you can argue that. He's a center drafted top 2, playing wing now with Kopitar. And then the Kings have acquired players that he's not going to be able to leap frog. That's not an improvement in his role as a player that's a reduction.
3. The Kings aren't supplementing their blue chip players. We added Richards to help Kopitar for example and stabilize the top 6. They added Carter to increase scoring. The main core during the Kings championship era was always Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. That's it. Everyone else who was added was to help them. They never lost their spots either via trade. The Kings are NOW acquiring players who will be taking their spots. The high end players from the rebuild pretty much never got a shot.

Kaliyev was 33 overall. The difference between 33 and top 5 are huge. I am looking at the 4 players we drafted high. None of them have a spot besides Clarke, but even then we don't know what spot he's going to be taking.


I don't know how you think the Kings abandoning the rebuild players is a GOOD thing. None of what I said is even debatable. There's not one person here who can argue against the fact that the prospects were abandoned/shafted.

a FEW years? Hmmm...Buffalo, a dozen or more? 2010-2011 last playoff appearance

Ottawa - about what 6-7 years, pinballing the previous 6 years etc....

That is what you are arguing for, right? To rebuild like those teams?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah maybe, the goalie market is in a weird spot, feels like more and more teams are having issues finding a true #1 goalie. So many teams will think they can just get a no-name goalie and ride him to the cup, but I'd guess more teams will try and emulate the other aspects that helped Vegas win rather than their luck in getting a goalie who was hot at the right time.

i TEND to agree but i think i'ts more of the usual. At any given time, tehre are only 3-5 truly elite goalies in the game...

...I think these days the falloff between the elite guys and 'the pack' is smaller and the pack has a higher floor. But the only teams winning with a 'pack' goalie have caught lightning in a bottle, not 'oh just get a regular guy' because those guys provided small sample size heights.

I mean how many years after friggin 2010 have we heard the phrase "you only need replacement level goaltending" only to watch those guys get melted in the first round 7 times a year

 

[psych3man]

None of the high draft picks from 2017-2021 look to be major pieces for the Kings this season, the best one is Mikey Anderson.

But then you get people like you know who tell his audience , "How can you complain, they are ahead of schedule in the rebuild!"

Blake tried to plant a bunch of vegetables in his garden and when they were slow to grow he went out to the store and bought a bunch of developed plants for a lot more money, planted them over where the seeds were and then the Mayor of Pravda tells us they are ahead of schedule.

LMAO
Cmon, Herby, you're making me feel really old with the Pravda reference!

(Aside: Pravda = truth, another Orwellian irony of the USSR...LMAO again)

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Again you're dodging. The purpose of a rebuild is to draft high and get high end players. That's the purpose. Your team sucks a few years, you draft high, get really good prospects, they take the big roles, and you supplement them through trades to see what else you need.

The Kings have messed up... this part. Ill bold it for you,

What have the Kings done instead? I'll lay that out for you as well.

1. The prospects are failing for the most part outside of Clarke. This is undeniable. Out of all the bluechips we have 1 who looks to be a top pairing high end player.
2. The prospects at no point have taken big roles. I think you can debate this with Byfield, but I think there's more circumstantial evidence proving to be the fact they're reducing his responsibilities and not increasing them. I don't think you can argue that. He's a center drafted top 2, playing wing now with Kopitar. And then the Kings have acquired players that he's not going to be able to leap frog. That's not an improvement in his role as a player that's a reduction.
3. The Kings aren't supplementing their blue chip players. We added Richards to help Kopitar for example and stabilize the top 6. They added Carter to increase scoring. The main core during the Kings championship era was always Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick. That's it. Everyone else who was added was to help them. They never lost their spots either via trade. The Kings are NOW acquiring players who will be taking their spots. The high end players from the rebuild pretty much never got a shot.

Kaliyev was 33 overall. The difference between 33 and top 5 are huge. I am looking at the 4 players we drafted high. None of them have a spot besides Clarke, but even then we don't know what spot he's going to be taking.


I don't know how you think the Kings abandoning the rebuild players is a GOOD thing. None of what I said is even debatable. There's not one person here who can argue against the fact that the prospects were abandoned/shafted.

Get really good prospects you say. Starting with 2017, they drafted:
Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, Mikey Anderson, Kupari, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Spence, Byfield, Faber and Clarke who have all appeared in NHL games. Three out of that group of 12 have been dealt in deals to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois, who is only one year older than Vilardi, and Kevin Fiala. Both of those acquired players were also highly ranked first rounders in 2016 and 2014 respectively.

You incessantly cry about Byfield and his production, and guess what, they're putting him in a role where he's going to have to produce. If he doesn't, they're f***ed, and that's on this team's management, development system, and coaching if he fails. But they've done as you suggested, and they're supplementing younger players like Byfield with talent he can play with, and yet you still whine about it, like you whine about Byfield. The Senators also shifted Stutzle from wing to center, so I guess since he's no longer player the position he was originally drafted at, he's considered a failure as well, despite the fact he's playing better at that position.

Remember when Kempe was used as a center, and how many of you wanted him gone because he wasn't producing? I guess we should listen to these level headed types who are ready to throw Byfield under the bus, because you're always right, and rebuilding will always result in guaranteed success. Just look at the Coyotes and Ducks and Sharks and Senators and Sabres and Canadiens and Red Wings and Flyers and Blue Jackets and Canucks as models of success with their high draft picks and successes. They're all eventual Stanley Cup dynasties.

 

[Sol]

Get really good prospects you say. Starting with 2017, they drafted:
Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, Mikey Anderson, Kupari, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Spence, Byfield, Faber and Clarke who have all appeared in NHL games. Three out of that group of 12 have been dealt in deals to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois, who is only one year older than Vilardi, and Kevin Fiala. Both of those acquired players were also highly ranked first rounders in 2016 and 2014 respectively.

You incessantly cry about Byfield and his production, and guess what, they're putting him in a role where he's going to have to produce. If he doesn't, they're f***ed, and that's on this team's management, development system, and coaching if he fails. But they've done as you suggested, and they're supplementing younger players like Byfield with talent he can play with, and yet you still whine about it, like you whine about Byfield. The Senators also shifted Stutzle from wing to center, so I guess since he's no longer player the position he was originally drafted at, he's considered a failure as well, despite the fact he's playing better at that position.

Remember when Kempe was used as a center, and how many of you wanted him gone because he wasn't producing? I guess we should listen to these level headed types who are ready to throw Byfield under the bus, because you're always right, and rebuilding will always result in guaranteed success. Just look at the Coyotes and Ducks and Sharks and Senators and Sabres and Canadiens and Red Wings and Flyers and Blue Jackets and Canucks as models of success with their high draft picks and successes. They're all eventual Stanley Cup dynasties.

I feel like you're intentionally being dishonest lol its pretty nuts. Bjornfot drafted 22nd overall. Which rebuilding team is drafting that low? I swear to god I can't believe this argument. It's so idiotic. Were the Kings tanking for Bjornfot or were they tanking for Byfield? LMAO

When teams are rebuilding Ziggy, PLEASE follow along, they draft HIGH. You said Adrian was part of the rebuild when he was drafted last in the first round the year the kings won the CUP.

I do bitch incessantly about Byfield. I can think he is a bust and at the same time think the Kings should allow him to lose his spot rather than take it from him without giving him the option to prove any of us wrong.

You need to maybe message Kingstorian about what a rebuild is since you seem to have zero understanding of the concept.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I didn't say Adrian was part of the rebuild, I said he was part of the core. You are right, this discussion is idiotic. Every rebuild follows the same trajectory, right? You also clearly ignore the facts about all of those success stories of teams that are still rebuilding many years later. According to you, a player can only be part of the core if they're drafted high. Very critical thinking to reach that conclusion.

 

[King'sPawn]

Get really good prospects you say. Starting with 2017, they drafted:
Vilardi, Anderson-Dolan, Mikey Anderson, Kupari, Turcotte, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Spence, Byfield, Faber and Clarke who have all appeared in NHL games. Three out of that group of 12 have been dealt in deals to acquire Pierre-Luc Dubois, who is only one year older than Vilardi, and Kevin Fiala. Both of those acquired players were also highly ranked first rounders in 2016 and 2014 respectively.

You incessantly cry about Byfield and his production, and guess what, they're putting him in a role where he's going to have to produce. If he doesn't, they're f***ed, and that's on this team's management, development system, and coaching if he fails. But they've done as you suggested, and they're supplementing younger players like Byfield with talent he can play with, and yet you still whine about it, like you whine about Byfield. The Senators also shifted Stutzle from wing to center, so I guess since he's no longer player the position he was originally drafted at, he's considered a failure as well, despite the fact he's playing better at that position.

Remember when Kempe was used as a center, and how many of you wanted him gone because he wasn't producing? I guess we should listen to these level headed types who are ready to throw Byfield under the bus, because you're always right, and rebuilding will always result in guaranteed success. Just look at the Coyotes and Ducks and Sharks and Senators and Sabres and Canadiens and Red Wings and Flyers and Blue Jackets and Canucks as models of success with their high draft picks and successes. They're all eventual Stanley Cup dynasties.

Kempe only started putting up goals when he worked on it himself. This was mentioned during a game last year.

Yes, a player needs to do some of his own work, but why does a player need to work on this stuff himself instead of having it be part of what is being taught? Or IS it being taught, but not being taught well enough?

Anderson and Byfield are the only two put in regular major roles for more than half a season.

And of the players you listed, only Vilardi, Anderson, Kupari, Kaliyev, Byfield have been NHL regulars. Averaging 1 NHL regular a draft is pretty bad, especially when 3 of those drafts were top-10 picks. Now, Clarke, Faber, and Spence should add to the list as well after this season... but the adage is "if you can average 2-3 NHL players a draft, you had a very good draft". Even adding those, it's still below average as far as looking at that threshold.

What the Kings have achieved with the youth, taking into context the number of picks and how high, is underwhelming. The season may be more exciting, but shouldn't the Kings also be doing better for the long haul, instead of waiting for the next prospect to start independently working on skills he had not developed well enough with the org?

 

[Sol]

Here why don’t we reductive.

Which corner stone player from the rebuild has a big role on the Kings all these years later?

One of them is someone you all wanted to trade away in Adrian Kempe, and the other is Mikey Anderson. Then you have the newer guys like Brandt Clarke who will fit that mold, hopefully Byfield and maybe Kaliyev reach those levels. Clarke's the closest thing they have to another Doughty, jury is out on Byfield being able to fill Kopitar's shoes, but at the very least, they're going to be using Byfield and Kaliyev in productive roles next season to replace the offense provided from Vilardi and Iafallo.

I'm critical of the coaching, the PK, the drafting/development over the years, but to think this team is worse off now than they were when the rebuild started is a fallacy. The Kings still iced one of the younger teams last season, and they made the playoffs in back-to-back seasons for the first time since 2013-2014, and they're still a young team.

Bringing Kopitar back isn't going to hold the team back. And we've all seen how overhyped having a stocked prospect pool can be. That doesn't guarantee anything. If we're using Vegas as an example of how a successful team should be built, then shouldn't you guys be asking for the Kings to follow their model of throwing away young players and picks for immediate impact players? Pick a side.

I didn't say Adrian was part of the rebuild, I said he was part of the core. You are right, this discussion is idiotic. Every rebuild follows the same trajectory, right? You also clearly ignore the facts about all of those success stories of teams that are still rebuilding many years later. According to you, a player can only be part of the core if they're drafted high. Very critical thinking to reach that conclusion.

Stay consistent and own up to it. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, but why even double down on it?

Why do teams rebuild? Its to acquire the best prospects and set forth a new foundation. Where are those players found??? In the top 10. Rarely do you ever get top players at 22nd overall and you know that. Rebuild and tanking go hand in hand. And teams that tank, get the best players, the Kings were tanking when they were getting Turcotte, Byfield, and Clarke. And why are those players so highly valued? Do you think someone like Lizotte and Byfield have the same value even though their production was nearly identical? Byfield's value comes from his draft position, and he was drafted that high because he was supposed to be a really good player.

By your logic no team is ever done rebuilding and you have no clue what the difference is between a retool and a rebuild. Rebuilding teams SUCK. and the Kings SUCKED. and they SUCKED to get high caliber players.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Kempe only started putting up goals when he worked on it himself. This was mentioned during a game last year.

Yes, a player needs to do some of his own work, but why does a player need to work on this stuff himself instead of having it be part of what is being taught? Or IS it being taught, but not being taught well enough?

Anderson and Byfield are the only two put in regular major roles for more than half a season.

And of the players you listed, only Vilardi, Anderson, Kupari, Kaliyev, Byfield have been NHL regulars. Averaging 1 NHL regular a draft is pretty bad, especially when 3 of those drafts were top-10 picks. Now, Clarke, Faber, and Spence should add to the list as well after this season... but the adage is "if you can average 2-3 NHL players a draft, you had a very good draft". Even adding those, it's still below average as far as looking at that threshold.

What the Kings have achieved with the youth, taking into context the number of picks and how high, is underwhelming. The season may be more exciting, but shouldn't the Kings also be doing better for the long haul, instead of waiting for the next prospect to start independently working on skills he had not developed well enough with the org?

The "meat" of their prospect pool really started to get strung together from the 2019 draft and onwards. That was their first high draft pick, and that pick has sputtered spectacularly.

Removing Vilardi out of the equation since he's gone, there are 7 players who could be in the opening lineup that the current management team has drafted: Anderson, Anderson-Dolan, Bjornfot, Fagemo, Spence, Byfield, and Clarke. As you mentioned, two of those names will be used in significant roles, and Clarke can quickly work his way in as a third member of that group, then you have the next layer of guys who we have to wait and see on.

I guess having a tad bit of hope that Byfield and Kaliyev put their shit together doesn't have me as hopeless as some of the others on here who think the Kings are throwing away every young player they've drafted. I'm trying to hammer home a point that they still have homegrown talent on this roster who can serve a purpose and be considered part of the core, which some guys worked their way into.

 

[Sol]

Kempe only started putting up goals when he worked on it himself. This was mentioned during a game last year.

Yes, a player needs to do some of his own work, but why does a player need to work on this stuff himself instead of having it be part of what is being taught? Or IS it being taught, but not being taught well enough?

Anderson and Byfield are the only two put in regular major roles for more than half a season.

And of the players you listed, only Vilardi, Anderson, Kupari, Kaliyev, Byfield have been NHL regulars. Averaging 1 NHL regular a draft is pretty bad, especially when 3 of those drafts were top-10 picks. Now, Clarke, Faber, and Spence should add to the list as well after this season... but the adage is "if you can average 2-3 NHL players a draft, you had a very good draft". Even adding those, it's still below average as far as looking at that threshold.

What the Kings have achieved with the youth, taking into context the number of picks and how high, is underwhelming. The season may be more exciting, but shouldn't the Kings also be doing better for the long haul, instead of waiting for the next prospect to start independently working on skills he had not developed well enough with the org?

Bingo. No one would give a shit if Anderson, a second rounder didn't amount to anything. People would care if Clarke didn't amount to anything purely because of where he was drafted.

Even Hickey, drafted that high to become nothing impressive hurt a lot because you draft high to get the cream of the crop. Shit, I know people were mad about Forbort being drafted 15th overall and Teubert being drafted 13th. We always talk about those guys because of WHERE they were drafted. No one cares about where Zykov is because he was just some second rounder.

To ignore the importance of draft positions is complete ignorance.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Bingo. No one would give a shit if Anderson, a second rounder didn't amount to anything. People would care if Clarke didn't amount to anything purely because of where he was drafted.

Even Hickey, drafted that high to become nothing impressive hurt a lot because you draft high to get the cream of the crop. Shit, I know people were mad about Forbort being drafted 15th overall and Teubert being drafted 13th. We always talk about those guys because of WHERE they were drafted. No one cares about where Zykov is because he was just some second rounder.

To ignore the importance of draft positions is complete ignorance.

So how many high picks did the Kings have and whiffed on during the rebuild? Turcotte is one. We all know your thoughts on Byfield. So the rebuild lasted for three drafts? The only other remaining high pick is Brandt Clarke.

One of their second roundes, Faber, yielded one of the top scoring wingers in the NHL. Tampa Bay's biggest star was a second rounder. The Golden Knights had one player they drafted in their lineup in Nic Hague, also a second rounder, and their highest drafted players that they acquired were Jack Eichel (2nd overall in 2015), and Alex Pietrangelo (4th overall in 2008).

If we listen to the armchair GMs, this is not how you put together a championship team. They dealt away their top prospects for immediate help by acquiring the likes of Eichel and Stone.

It's as if there is more than one way to add young players to a roster while also remaining competitive. But according to Sol, that is only accomplished one way, and all of those examples I listed of unsuccessful teams that have been rebuilding for years should be ignored.