Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season - The Luc and Rob Show

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Here's a fun exercise. This is a 23-man team made up of the Kings' draft selections and prospect signings from 2006 through 2017.

Pearson-Schenn-Toffoli
Kempe-Loktionov-Simmonds
King-Shore-Lewis
Clifford-Dowd-Nolan
Deslauriers-Andreoff-Vey

Muzzin-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Forbort-Hickey

Jones-Bernier

Jesus Christ that forward lineup is horrendous. I guess you can throw Moulson and Purcell into the mix if you think that makes that group look better. It still stands out how poor this organization has been in finding top six talent.

Fair enough, let's look at the quality of picks,

2006 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, I believe people are giving credit to Taylor on these though, kinda like DL gets credit for Vilardi in terms of scouting etc, but ok
2007 - 10 picks, 1 1st, 2 2nds, picks up key members in Simmonds, Martinez, King
2008 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, Doughty...
2009 - 10 picks, 1 1st, Schenn
2010 - 5 picks....Forbort and Toffoli...
2011 - 6 picks no 1st
2012 - 6 picks, last pick in 1st
2013 - 7 picks, no 1st
2014 - 10 picks, 2nd to last pick in 1st
2015 - 6 picks, no 1st
2016 - 4 picks, no 1st
2017 - 7 picks, Vilardi and JAD

Not gonna argue, the drafting of top six talent isn't there or....at the very least, could have been better, because Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, are all top six players...but it's really hard to find top six talent, when you don't have top picks in early rounds...
 
Fair enough, let's look at the quality of picks,

2006 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, I believe people are giving credit to Taylor on these though, kinda like DL gets credit for Vilardi in terms of scouting etc, but ok
2007 - 10 picks, 1 1st, 2 2nds, picks up key members in Simmonds, Martinez, King
2008 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, Doughty...
2009 - 10 picks, 1 1st, Schenn
2010 - 5 picks....Forbort and Toffoli...
2011 - 6 picks no 1st
2012 - 6 picks, last pick in 1st
2013 - 7 picks, no 1st
2014 - 10 picks, 2nd to last pick in 1st
2015 - 6 picks, no 1st
2016 - 4 picks, no 1st
2017 - 7 picks, Vilardi and JAD

Not gonna argue, the drafting of top six talent isn't there or....at the very least, could have been better, because Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, are all top six players...but it's really hard to find top six talent, when you don't have top picks in early rounds...

f***, i agree with him
 
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Fair enough, let's look at the quality of picks,

2006 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, I believe people are giving credit to Taylor on these though, kinda like DL gets credit for Vilardi in terms of scouting etc, but ok
2007 - 10 picks, 1 1st, 2 2nds, picks up key members in Simmonds, Martinez, King
2008 - 9 picks, 2 1sts, Doughty...
2009 - 10 picks, 1 1st, Schenn
2010 - 5 picks....Forbort and Toffoli...
2011 - 6 picks no 1st
2012 - 6 picks, last pick in 1st
2013 - 7 picks, no 1st
2014 - 10 picks, 2nd to last pick in 1st
2015 - 6 picks, no 1st
2016 - 4 picks, no 1st
2017 - 7 picks, Vilardi and JAD

Not gonna argue, the drafting of top six talent isn't there or....at the very least, could have been better, because Schenn, Simmonds, Toffoli, are all top six players...but it's really hard to find top six talent, when you don't have top picks in early rounds...

Kempe and Amadio are really all there is to show from 2014 til now. We once we found good guys in the later rounds, today it has all but disappeared.
 
Kempe and Amadio are really all there is to show from 2014 til now. We once we found good guys in the later rounds, today it has all but disappeared.

Not gonna argue with ya, I think JAD might up there as well, but again, 2014 til now, 2 1sts in 4 years, one year we had FOUR picks, you better hit something with one of those four or it's gonna be bleak...
 
Not gonna argue with ya, I think JAD might up there as well, but again, 2014 til now, 2 1sts in 4 years, one year we had FOUR picks, you better hit something with one of those four or it's gonna be bleak...


Yeah, but I think it's too early to judge Blakes drafts yet. This is all on Lombardi and his will over skill drafting years. That's is where all the damage has been done.
 
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Yeah, but I think it's too early to judge Blakes drafts yet. This is all on Lombardi and his will over skill drafting years. That's is where all the damage has been done.

I find it odd that anyone would gloss over that. That’s a big reason why this team has been set back for years.

That roster I made up of Lombardi drafted talent is very thin on talent, and not a single one of those players can be considered #1 line material outside of Doughty, a #2 overall pick.

Where are all the homeruns they hit in the 2nd rounds?

The most promising forwards this team has drafted in a long, long time came into the system last year, and both are close to making the team.
 
I find it odd that anyone would gloss over that. That’s a big reason why this team has been set back for years.

That roster I made up of Lombardi drafted talent is very thin on talent, and not a single one of those players can be considered #1 line material outside of Doughty, a #2 overall pick.

Where are all the homeruns they hit in the 2nd rounds?

The most promising forwards this team has drafted in a long, long time came into the system last year, and both are close to making the team.


Bingo! We're paying the price of the two cups, then chasing a 3rd.
 
RASMUS KUPARI- S.O.S. !! 18 games 6 goals 7 assists 13 pts in LIGA as an 18 year old. Turns 19 March 15.

Rasmus Kupari at eliteprospects.com

He is a mix of Jesse Puljujärvi and Sebastian Aho, Mikko Manner (Kärpät HC) 2017
Slick Finnish forward, very dangerous with the puck on his stick, always a threat offensively, ISS Hockey 2017

There is a light at the end of the tunnel...and it's NOT an oncoming train! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A 100% (HOPE) healthy Vilardi, Kupari, Jaret Anderson-Dolan and the 2019 #1 pick, either Hughes, Kakko or Dach.
 
I find it odd that anyone would gloss over that. That’s a big reason why this team has been set back for years.

That roster I made up of Lombardi drafted talent is very thin on talent, and not a single one of those players can be considered #1 line material outside of Doughty, a #2 overall pick.

Where are all the homeruns they hit in the 2nd rounds?

The most promising forwards this team has drafted in a long, long time came into the system last year, and both are close to making the team.

That 2nd round stuff was just a short run of luck, really. Instead of finding 3 or in 10 years we found 3 in short order then nothing for 7+ years.

A lot of this stems from the fact that there was a very specific type of player they were targeting. With Amadio it was his 2 way play, which I think is starting to translate. Kempe had his physical side and pesty play, which I haven't seen in a while unless you count dumb penalties. For a few years there we were drafting for a system that we would be changing. We will see how things pan out now that the drafting will focus on different types of players. Futa is really good at what he does, but if he was told to target character type guys that's what he would be focusing on.

I think we all knew the drafting was going to suffer, and when that 3rd run failed it was the nail in the coffin for our developmental system.

Now we can look back and dissect all the screw-ups, but I still maintain that the single thing most responsible for the drop after 2014 was the Voynov situation. It was unforeseen, and if it didn't happen we would still have one of the top bluelines in the league. It snowballed into the Sekera move where we lost a first rounder which hurt the prospect pool. It also potentially hurt us during the expansion draft where Forbort probably would have been taken over McNabb. Richards was replaceable from within, but replacing Voynov was never going to be possible outside of dumb luck. It really pisses me off to think that we could be rolling Doughty-McNabb, Voynov-Muzzin, Martinez-Whoever.
 
RASMUS KUPARI- S.O.S. !! 18 games 6 goals 7 assists 13 pts in LIGA as an 18 year old. Turns 19 March 15.

Rasmus Kupari at eliteprospects.com

He is a mix of Jesse Puljujärvi and Sebastian Aho, Mikko Manner (Kärpät HC) 2017
Slick Finnish forward, very dangerous with the puck on his stick, always a threat offensively, ISS Hockey 2017

There is a light at the end of the tunnel...and it's NOT an oncoming train! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A 100% (HOPE) healthy Vilardi, Kupari, Jaret Anderson-Dolan and the 2019 #1 pick, either Hughes, Kakko or Dach.

Let's hope so. I can get behind watching young kids grow. Just have to be careful not to rush them.
 
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So far the most deep draft that I believe is going to surpass 2003 is 2015 and we had 5 picks no 1st round pick and we still drafted heavy f***ing Schmalz and other idiots . That is what set us back . Only have Wagner to show for it who is a 4th liner . Every other team has a player from that draft who is either top 6 forward or top 4 dman
 
So far the most deep draft that I believe is going to surpass 2003 is 2015 and we had 5 picks no 1st round pick and we still drafted heavy ****ing Schmalz and other idiots . That is what set us back . Only have Wagner to show for it who is a 4th liner . Every other team has a player from that draft who is either top 6 forward or top 4 dman

Well, that's on DL. Yep, we would likely have a very good top six forward (likely a star player) in the first round had he not made the Lucic trade, and he traded our 2nd round pick whom we drafted, Cernak, who just made his NHL debut. But your over reacting regarding the rest of the draft. Only 2 guys out of the last 150 players picked from rounds 3 through 7 have played regularly in the NHL.
 
Well, that's on DL. Yep, we would likely have a very good top six forward (likely a star player) in the first round had he not made the Lucic trade, and he traded our 2nd round pick whom we drafted, Cernak, who just made his NHL debut. But your over reacting regarding the rest of the draft. Only 2 guys out of the last 150 players picked from rounds 3 through 7 have played regularly in the NHL.
It's Futa too. Why does that guy get a constant pass as the head scout?
 
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Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Did Lombardi luck into the assets which were used to acquire Richards and Carter? Williams? Stoll and Greene? No, he didn't luck into any of those assets. They were there and available for him to use when he felt the time was right, and it was so right. The Kings don't win in 2012 with Simmonds and Schenn on the roster instead of Richards and Carter. Lest we forget how Richards set the tone in Round 1 of the 2012 playoffs.



It's all great because they won, but the price for Richards was a lot to finish 13th overall.

Is it process or results? I was, and still am, pro-the Richards trade. However, they hadn't made it out of the 1st round yet. As we saw, they were still several moves away from winning in 2012 after Richards. Do you give up Schenn and Simmonds when you're still several moves away? Is that what a building team does? What proof did Lombardi have they were ready? One of those moves being lucking out that Carter was available? The results were great, but if we're going to rip Lombardi for things like Lucic, then the theory behind Richards is the same. It was a huge risk, which was inching toward not paying off. Both for the team, and individually. 18 goals and 44 points was not what anyone was expecting out of Richards, no matter how defensive the team was. The Kings finished 12th overall in 10-11, and then finished 13th overall in 11-12. That wasn't the expectation after the summer of 2011. They could've finished 13th overall without the Richards trade. Game 1 against Vancouver is why Lombardi made that deal, and the Kings do not win the Cup that year with Schenn and Simmonds.

The results back then were great, but the process was the same as anything that's been done after June 2014.

Here's a fun exercise. This is a 23-man team made up of the Kings' draft selections and prospect signings from 2006 through 2017.

Pearson-Schenn-Toffoli
Kempe-Loktionov-Simmonds
King-Shore-Lewis
Clifford-Dowd-Nolan
Deslauriers-Andreoff-Vey

Muzzin-Doughty
Martinez-Voynov
Forbort-Hickey

Jones-Bernier

Jesus Christ that forward lineup is horrendous. I guess you can throw Moulson and Purcell into the mix if you think that makes that group look better. It still stands out how poor this organization has been in finding top six talent.

This is why it cost so much future to just get out of the 1st round in 2012. In the rebuilding phase of Lombardi's plan, he got Bernier, Lewis, Hickey, Doughty, Teubert, and Schenn in the 1st round. Bernier was the backup when they got good, Lewis was a solid foot soldier, Hickey was a miss that they lost on waivers, Doughty was a slam dunk, Teubert was a miss that they had to package with another 1st to get any value, and Schenn was dealt fairly quickly in a win now move. Normally, that series of events shouldn't win. Trading Schenn for Richards was like trading Jokinen for Palffy. The Kings finished 11th overall in 99-00. 13th overall in 00-01, then went on sort of a miracle run of their own that year. 12th overall in 01-02.

Not only did they miss on winning while either/both Kopitar and Doughty were on their ELC's, but just to get out of the 1st round, it cost a 1st in 2011, a 1st in 2013, a 23 year old, a 20 year old 5th overall pick, and a wasted 13th overall pick.

Before the end result, did Lombardi miscalculate on getting Richards? Obviously not to the extent that Blake has done after getting Kovalchuk, as they were at least competitive when Murray was fired. Just a couple points away from a playoff spot at the time, not dead last. 8-6-3 through 17 games back in 11-12 too. Kopitar had 21 points. Richards 12. Gagne had 11. Penner had 0 goals and 2 points. 41 goals as a team, 34 today. 38 GA back then, 55 today.

When Murray was fired, Kopitar had 28 points in 29 games. Richards 20 points. Williams had 4 goals. Brown had 5 goals and 15 points. Doughty 2 goals, 8 points. Penner, 2 goals and 5 points.
 
All outcomes are a combination of luck, work ethic and skill.

Some have more good luck than bad luck and vice versa. The difference is how you handle the bad luck when it comes, and if you've put yourself in position to take advantage of good luck when it comes.

The Ducks were lucky that Pronger became available, but they also had patiently built up the assets that allowed them to acquire him.
 
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Winning championships does not guarantee job security, Chiarelli and Shero are proof of that. The Kings from 2014-2017 were at the Milbury level, never compared his entire tenure in LA to Milbury, but the final three years are comparable, it was a complete and utter disaster and no one was stabbed in the back, just like the aforementioned guys, he was rightfully fired.

I stand by what I said, three of the most important players on this team were drafted by Dave Taylor, who was fired over 12 years ago. Look at the post that Ziggy had building a roster with Kings picks during the DL era. Sorry but once Kopitar, Quick and Brown are done is that someone you trust to add high end players to the roster? Credit to adding to what he inherited, he made some great deals in trading for undervalued players like Carter and Williams and made a great hire at the right time in Sutter, but it was clearly time to turn the page.

As I said, Quick, Kopitar, Brown wouldn’t be where they are without DL coming in. He doesn’t get any credit for that around here. Quick was lazy in the minors and showed up to practice late. Brown got the kick in the rear end when DL floated trade rumors prior to the first cup run. Kopitar wouldn’t be a Selke winner etc. We can go on, they were developed correctly.

They wouldn’t be under Dave Taylor or some other AEG appointed shill. Certainly wouldn’t see a run of Two Cups, and 1 WCF appearance in a cap era is very tough to do. Might have been a dynasty if not for Chicago.

He was stabbed in the back, Luc’s been coveting DL’s position as president of hockey ops for some time.

I mean Luc has zero hockey operations experience prior to being appointed President of Hockey operations. Yet he was given final say on hockey transactions and oversees the entire club. How does AEG go from someone with DL’s background/resume to Luc’s? That’s a steep, steep drop off.

We got rid of a guy that was an ACE GM in rebuilding a roster/culture but AEG went with two rookies that didn’t essentially change anything when they took over and say were still contenders...here we are in last place. It does not add up and sad to say, Luc is an idiot with no pulse on the team.
 
Luc and Blake done any media interviews or press conferences recently? Seems they have both gone dark.

And not like the local sports media is going to bother seeking them out, the best we can get is Helene and Rosen saying stuff on twitter.

Quite a contrast from DL who was open as any GM in the league. Because agree with him or not, he was very detail oriented and could answer questions with no hesitation.

At times it felt like you were in the war room/gm meetings with Dean. Now it’s all carefully crafted statements released to the press.
 
Luck is when preparation meets opportunity. Did Lombardi luck into the assets which were used to acquire Richards and Carter? Williams? Stoll and Greene? No, he didn't luck into any of those assets.
He inherited Visnovsky. Maybe you're referring to the fact that he extended Visnovsky?

I also think he botched Visnovsky's value.

The Kings don't win in 2012 with Simmonds and Schenn on the roster instead of Richards and Carter.
You don't know what other scenarios could have taken place. Yes it was time to make a move, that doesn't mean it had to be for Richards.

Dean traded one of the top prospects in the game, and a 22yo future 30 goal scorer, for a guy with 1.5 years of good hockey left in him on a contract that would end up handicapping the franchise until the year 2032. That's not a good trade.
 
He inherited Visnovsky. Maybe you're referring to the fact that he extended Visnovsky?

I also think he botched Visnovsky's value.


You don't know what other scenarios could have taken place. Yes it was time to make a move, that doesn't mean it had to be for Richards.

Dean traded one of the top prospects in the game, and a 22yo future 30 goal scorer, for a guy with 1.5 years of good hockey left in him on a contract that would end up handicapping the franchise until the year 2032. That's not a good trade.
I don't think Lombardi botched the Visnovsky situation. He signed him to a very reasonable extension, then when Lubo's game fell apart a bit he traded him for two of the missing pieces to the puzzle.

Richards is what was available. I am happy Dean didn't pass on that opportunity.
 
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I don't think Lombardi botched the Visnovsky situation. He signed him to a very reasonable extension, then when Lubo's game fell apart a bit he traded him for two of the missing pieces to the puzzle.
He traded him when his value was at a low point. (Did the same thing with Cammalleri)

By Dean's own admission he was getting great offers for LV, but instead of moving him, he held on to him and waited until his play dipped to trade him.

Visnovsky was 31. We were rebuilding, there was no need to hold on to him.
 
Dean Lombardi is the best GM this organization has ever seen.The constant disrespect (ie. He built off Taylor’s picks, he’s mike milbury etc) is something I’ll never understand and frankly this organization treated him like trash on the way out.

We were a laughing stock (save one year in 93) for the entirety of the franchises existence. I mean it was a sad history of losing. Under Dean, someone that could actually articulate a plan and articulate his vision for the team. We never had that before, and we certainly lost that immediately after he left. Results speak for themselves and now there’s pining for the old days, wonder why.

Dean was pretty thorough in rebuilding the franchise from the weight room to the equipment guy. Development was nonexistent before DL, offseason team training was nonexistent. Some of Taylor’s picks would have never seen as much nhl action if not for DL’s program. We never would have heard of Quick, Kopitar wouldn’t be winning any Selke’s, missed out on Doughty, no Martinez to win us a Cup, no Voynov to fly down the slot to beat the Blues in the playoffs, no Stoll to send the Canucks packing, No Justin Williams game 7 heroics.

Just to recap, DL brought the best 3-4 years that this franchise will probably ever see. 2 Stanley Cups and 1 WCF appearance. Nobody can blame him for trying to extend that run.

Some of his comments in his last season here indicate he was gearing up for an overhaul with leadership. Unfortunately he’s been knifed in the back, game of thrones style, by Luc Robitaille who clearly convinced AEG he can do better with the team as is. No overhaul needed and can still contend.

There’s a reason why DL went back to Philly quietly, he had nothing good to say about Luc and he trusts the Philly organization. I’m not sure he’ll choose to GM again given how things transpired in LA.

This is a GREAT post. Remember, it is very difficult to win one championship in any sport, let along 2 in three years with a near miss in between. There is so much competitive balance these days with 1) the salary cap 2) an absence of dumb organizations willing to trade high draft picks for aging veterans (ring a bell?) 3) parity in scouting, training and development 4) unfortunate puck bounces (ask the Washington Capitals). There was one architect who created this result, and his name is Dean Lombardi. He molded what he was handed, strategically added to it and never once deviated from his plan despite lots of pressure to do so. Yes, other people contributed, and Dean would be the first to give them credit when due, but the reality is that Lombardi is the indispensable link that resulted in two Cups. Without him, it never would have happened.

Did he make mistakes trying to extend the run? Absolutely. Was he too loyal to the guys who produced the Championships? No question about it. But, those are the kind of mistakes that only winners get to make. You can bellyache all you want to about those errors, but you can never take away the two Cups. I am not sure if he was stabbed in the back by Luc, nor do I know whether DL was ready to start the rebuild, but the results on the ice today are the fault of Luc and Rob Blake who believed the existing core could still be competitive. We will never know if DL thought the same thing so please place the blame appropriately. Dl's responsibility for this debacle ended the day he was let go. Were I the owner looking to start over again, DL would be my first phone call.
 
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