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Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

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deeshamrock said:
Stone's 6 yrs younger a much less of a risk.
What GM is taking a center, who will be 32 yrs old next yr, whose is on the shady side of his career with 5 more years at 10M?
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How is he much less of a risk? The guy hasnt played a full season his entire career, has missed well over double the games kopitar has in a much shorter career due to injury. Is breaking out in his contract season (always a good sign) and i doubt hes ever led his team in scoring. He also plays a less important position.

Again im confused why simply age makes him less "risky".
 
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KINGS17 said:
Mark Stone, age 26

Angie Kopitar, age 31
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SettlementRichie10 said:
The Stone contract runs from 26 - 34 years old, which covers basically all of his prime production years. Those 34-36 years are a dealbreaker and it's infuriating to see people continue pretending like they're not.

Lastly, if Blake calls up GMGM right now and offers Kopitar for Stone straight up, GMGM hangs up the phone. Kopitar's contract is considered untradeable for a reason.
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Better example: Tavares.

Yet TO sought him out and signed him to that. Why?

Edit: I know trading vs. signing involves different assets, but with respect to the idea that no one will sign anyone to big money contracts into their mid to late 30s...and let's not pretend Tavares is head and shoulders above Kopitar. he's blowing it up this year in a 2C role, can you imagine Kopitar having that luxury? lol. But up until that same time in their careers, despite reputations, Kopitar was the more productive player in a harder role on a less offensively potent team.

I'm just never going to be on board with this idea that 10m contracts are crippling and I think more people will come around to that in the next year or two.
 
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Rusty Batch said:
How is he much less of a risk? The guy hasnt played a full season his entire career, has missed well over double the games kopitar has in a much shorter career due to injury. Is breaking out in his contract season (always a good sign) and i doubt hes ever led his team in scoring. He also plays a less important position.

Again im confused why simply age makes him less "risky".
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Because statistics support it. Players in the 30's, for the most part, have declining numbers. I love Kopi too ,but that's an albatross of a contract.
 
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Vegas might actually do Stone for Kopitar today in an effort to go for it all now and the next couple of years since they could probably handle the difference in cap hit at the moment. That's without looking it up and understanding anything about their cap situation.

Kopitar is still a better player at a more valuable position.

Changing subjects, I noticed when looking at contracts today that Quick is actually making $7MM this season as well as next. Cap hit of $5.8MM but anybody ponying up for him in a trade is dropping $7MM next season in real dollars. That does start to drop off pretty quickly at the end, however.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Better example: Tavares.

Yet TO sought him out and signed him to that. Why?

Edit: I know trading vs. signing involves different assets, but with respect to the idea that no one will sign anyone to big money contracts into their mid to late 30s...and let's not pretend Tavares is head and shoulders above Kopitar. he's blowing it up this year in a 2C role, can you imagine Kopitar having that luxury? lol. But up until that same time in their careers, despite reputations, Kopitar was the more productive player in a harder role on a less offensively potent team.

I'm just never going to be on board with this idea that 10m contracts are crippling and I think more people will come around to that in the next year or two.
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I think Toronto is going to regret the Tavares contract eventually, to be perfectly honest. But it, too, ends at age 34, which makes it slightly more palatable, in my opinion.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
Gonna be a looooot of albatross contracts in the next few years.
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Yes, there will be.

I think a lot of GMs are banking on the next CBA providing everyone with a fresh round of compliance buyouts. If it doesn’t, and the current rules remain in effect, I think you’ll see a sharp decline in a lot of these retirement contracts.

A lot of teams would have been in major cap trouble without the last round of CBOs in 2013.
 
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SettlementRichie10 said:
I think Toronto is going to regret the Tavares contract eventually, to be perfectly honest. But it, too, ends at age 34, which makes it slightly more palatable, in my opinion.
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Toronto sees their kids moving off of ELCs, they moved all in for this season. They have a real balancing act to execute going forward.
 
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Rusty Batch said:
I think what your failing to understand is that even though we can all agree that players tend to decline after age 25 or so (depemding on past injuries, type of play, etc..)they decline in comparison to THEIR prior ability. So yes kopitar will decline. But that doesn't mean a different younger player is guaranteed to be better than him simply because of age. A declining Kopitar is still better than the vast majority of NHL centers and likely better than Mark Stone (who will also be declining, go look at the stats for players at age 28 compared to the same players stats at age 23ish)

Heres the other thing some of you seem to forget, Kopitars contract will stay the same and the nhl salary cap will continue to go up. Meaning as time goes on more and more centers will make more or similar money to him.
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No one is doubting Kopitar’s longevity and effectiveness. He will likely be a pretty good NHL player at 34-36.

What people are doubting is a 34-36 year old Kopitar being worth a $10 million AAV.

That’s what YOU are not understanding. We understand how good Kopitar is. We understand he will likely still be pretty good at an advanced age. We dispute that he will be worth his cap hit at said advanced age.

And you’re exactly right; a younger player in his spot is not automatically better. Where we all start to get off into the weeds is determining just how prohibitive his cap hit will be in far flung seasons like 22/23 and 23/24.
 
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KINGS17 said:
Toronto sees their kids moving off of ELCs, they moved all in for this season. They have a real balancing act to execute going forward.
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Which is not very shrewd management, in my opinion. Toronto was simply not ready for an all-in.

Everyone in Toronto - even their dopey journalists like Mirtle - was under some self-deluded spell that Matthews/Marner/Nylander wouldn’t break the bank. And this was only a year or so removed from a major shift in the second contract, in which players like Eichel, Drai, and McDavid super-inflated the market.

They’ll almost surely need to move Nylander.
 
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SettlementRichie10 said:
I think Toronto is going to regret the Tavares contract eventually, to be perfectly honest. But it, too, ends at age 34, which makes it slightly more palatable, in my opinion.
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Of course Toronto signed Tavares to pursue a Cup while they had cost controlled talent for a year or two.

Kopitar was given his extension as the team was leaving a Cup window with no cost-controlled talent to supplement his deal. He was paid to maintain a level of success, not reach new heights. It was a poor choice for all practical reasons, and it's going to be a problem for a few years.
 
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SettlementRichie10 said:
Which is not very shrewd management, in my opinion. Toronto was simply not ready for an all-in.

Everyone in Toronto - even their dopey journalists like Mirtle - was under some self-deluded spell that Matthews/Marner/Nylander wouldn’t break the bank. And this was only a year or so removed from a major shift in the second contract, in which players like Eichel, Drai, and McDavid super-inflated the market.

They’ll almost surely need to move Nylander.
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Yeah, and should have done that already. But he's under contract now, it might make it easier. He'll net a good return and it should be for a defenseman.
 
bland said:
Of course Toronto signed Tavares to pursue a Cup while they had cost controlled talent for a year or two.

Kopitar was given his extension as the team was leaving a Cup window with no cost-controlled talent to supplement his deal. He was paid to maintain a level of success, not reach new heights. It was a poor choice for all practical reasons, and it's going to be a problem for a few years.
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So you think signing Tavares to a contract that expires when he's 34 and directly and immediately puts the team in visible RFA jeopardy is less dangerous than signing Kopitar, who has not and will not hamper LA's ability to field a team around him?

Interesting.

Can you imagine if we oversigned Kopitar to like 16 million in like 2013 and it forced us to lose one of Pearson or Toffoli, for example? That's the position Toronto is now in--minus the winning--with the possibility of losing a more impactful, younger player.

I like Dubas but a lot of people there are drinking the "we're special and they'll make an exception for us" koolaid.
 
Blake said that BOTH veterans and youth should earn their playing time....they need to scratch Carter, 30% on faceoffs last night, third most icetime for forwards; 19:11 TOI. and 14th straight game no goal. He's super easy to play against. Scratch Phaneuf. And if they want to talk, tell them we need to play the players that are hungry and giving a full effort and showing results.

Was Blake just blowing hot air? Will WD actually respond and implement this? Will he have the cahonas to scratch Carter and Phaneuf? Why did Carter get 19:11 of TOI?
 
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Peter James Bond II said:
Blake said that BOTH veterans and youth should earn their playing time....they need to scratch Carter, 30% on faceoffs last night, third most icetime for forwards; 19:11 TOI. and 14th straight game no goal. He's super easy to play against. Scratch Phaneuf. And if they want to talk, tell them we need to play the players that are hungry and giving a full effort and showing results.

Was Blake just blowing hot air? Will WD actually respond and implement this? Will he have the cahonas to scratch Carter and Phaneuf? Why did Carter get 19:11 of TOI?
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I don't think you understand the "tanking" concept PJB...;)
 
Peter James Bond II said:
Blake said that BOTH veterans and youth should earn their playing time....they need to scratch Carter, 30% on faceoffs last night, third most icetime for forwards; 19:11 TOI. and 14th straight game no goal. He's super easy to play against. Scratch Phaneuf. And if they want to talk, tell them we need to play the players that are hungry and giving a full effort and showing results.

Was Blake just blowing hot air? Will WD actually respond and implement this? Will he have the cahonas to scratch Carter and Phaneuf? Why did Carter get 19:11 of TOI?
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I don't see the problem with a GM saying something, and a coach doing his own thing. That's how it should be. GM's shouldn't be deciding who gets ice time in a game, or who gets scratched, or whatever.

The other options at C right now are Kempe and Lewis. Kempe got his time last night, and Lewis shouldn't be a C anyway. Luff isn't a C, so he's not getting in for Carter. It's ridiculous that Wagner and Luff get 8 minutes a night, but WD is a moron who has the job because he was cheap and will soon go away. It's easier to just accept it for this season. Maybe he'll change when the Kings get mathematically eliminated, but whatever, Wagner and Luff won't be hurt long term by having some individual success in limited time. If they're legit NHL players, they'll be fine.
 
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Peter James Bond II said:
Blake said that BOTH veterans and youth should earn their playing time....they need to scratch Carter, 30% on faceoffs last night, third most icetime for forwards; 19:11 TOI. and 14th straight game no goal. He's super easy to play against. Scratch Phaneuf. And if they want to talk, tell them we need to play the players that are hungry and giving a full effort and showing results.

Was Blake just blowing hot air? Will WD actually respond and implement this? Will he have the cahonas to scratch Carter and Phaneuf? Why did Carter get 19:11 of TOI?
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Coach gave Dion a pass on his turnover last night by saying he was trying to make a play and instead, Phaneuf made a mental mistake. I guess being weak with your stick is no longer a sign of poor effort. Must have been a lapse of concentration.

In truth, it doesn’t matter how bad Phaneuf and Carter are, as others have described, Desjardins is just being the hack he was hired to be. I’m convinced he has zero input when it comes to lineup decisions. He is obviously just carrying the water while BLuc texts line combos to Sturm on the bench.

As for C options to replace Carter, only Amadio exists, and there is a lot of sense in giving him 1C minutes in Ontario. He’s an injury away from reappearing, so I guess there is a glimmer of hope. He’s still 22 yo.
 
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