Rumor: KINGS 2018-19 Season- Luc/Rob ****Show/ Sell Everyone!! Part 3

[SettlementRichie10]

After pages of Kopitar, see all the arguments and sides. Kopitar is still playing well, overall and as stated, leading the team in scoring. When he goes to the net and skate in the slot, he scores - like the 2 the other day. Leadership issues? I think it's valid that he's not the right captain. His effort? I think he's not as focused and driven as last year. A problem now and going forward? Yes. His contract?
Arguably too long. I fear the last 1-2 years of it. What can you do? However, as guys like Stone may get 12 million? Maybe Kopitars 10 million is not so bad looking....one of my fears is that he's
seemed to have lost a step and a half just from last year....he must lose a little weight and get back to work where he was.'

However, why is no one talking about the WAY BIGGER problem, the elephant in the room? Your #2 center is the 4th most important player on your team, after 1C, 1D, and Goalie. 2C is your 4th most important and the Kings have the worst, 31st in NHL 2C. How to fix this? It ain't fixable, he must be off the team, by opening night. 19-20.

Carter cannot be on this team. 59 games, 14 even strength points. Has to be worse alltime NHL stats for 2nd line center. He's done. More than Richards was done. No goals last 13 games. Not a single plus in +/- in those 13 games. 7.4 S%. 5 even strength goals in 59 games. How can you ice a 2nd line ctr with 5 ESG in 59 games and compete? You can't. Compare that to Leipsic - 38 games with Kings and 14 even strength points; from all kinds of lines and combos. The above lineup is not looking great, but Carter brings it to lower levels even moreso and will be 35. Must keep culling 30+ year olds - Carter, Lewis for starters

Question: what if they cannot trade him? My biggest fear and if he's 2C, the Kings simply cannot compete and are destined for bottom 5 teams in NHL. Period.

discuss.

Absolutely. Carter should have been traded a long time ago. As of right now, he’s a far bigger hole than Kopitar for sure.

A trade is not going to materialize for Carter at this point. So either we keep him, or we buy him out. Not sure of the buyout numbers on Carter’s deal, but it likely ain’t pretty.

It’s not a hole we can address internally right now. Vilardi is a total wildcard at this point, which is typical Kings luck. A year ago he was looking like a Kopitar level steal of his draft. Maybe Kempe takes a huge step forward next year?

The free agent class isn’t great, not unless you want to throw money at someone like Duchene (no thanks).

I don’t know. There are so many problems with this team, so many holes. We will likely be bottom five again next year if the lineup doesn’t change. It is what it is.

 

[kingsboy11]

After pages of Kopitar, see all the arguments and sides. Kopitar is still playing well, overall and as stated, leading the team in scoring. When he goes to the net and skate in the slot, he scores - like the 2 the other day. Leadership issues? I think it's valid that he's not the right captain. His effort? I think he's not as focused and driven as last year. A problem now and going forward? Yes. His contract?
Arguably too long. I fear the last 1-2 years of it. What can you do? However, as guys like Stone may get 12 million? Maybe Kopitars 10 million is not so bad looking....one of my fears is that he's
seemed to have lost a step and a half just from last year....he must lose a little weight and get back to work where he was.'

However, why is no one talking about the WAY BIGGER problem, the elephant in the room? Your #2 center is the 4th most important player on your team, after 1C, 1D, and Goalie. 2C is your 4th most important and the Kings have the worst, 31st in NHL 2C. How to fix this? It ain't fixable, he must be off the team, by opening night. 19-20.

Carter cannot be on this team. 59 games, 14 even strength points. Has to be worse alltime NHL stats for 2nd line center. He's done. More than Richards was done. No goals last 13 games. Not a single plus in +/- in those 13 games. 7.4 S%. 5 even strength goals in 59 games. How can you ice a 2nd line ctr with 5 ESG in 59 games and compete? You can't. Compare that to Leipsic - 38 games with Kings and 14 even strength points; from all kinds of lines and combos. The above lineup is not looking great, but Carter brings it to lower levels even moreso and will be 35. Must keep culling 30+ year olds - Carter, Lewis for starters

Question: what if they cannot trade him? My biggest fear and if he's 2C, the Kings simply cannot compete and are destined for bottom 5 teams in NHL. Period.

discuss.

I guess to answer your question then it becomes so be it. I personally don't see the team being truly competitive throughout the duration of his contract. But I'm also going to ask a question of my own, not just to you but to anyone.

When do people see this team becoming competitive again? As in when do you think we can expect this team to start competing in the playoffs again?

Because a lot of the arguments being made about Kopitar is that he is going to hamstring the team or that he won't be worth the cost which he likely won't be the contract at that point. A lot of people have been throwing out 2023 for some reason. If we want to use 2012 as a barometer, Kopitar was 24 and Doughty was 22. Vilardi will be 23, Kupari will be 22, Hughes/Kakko (fingers crossed) will be 21, JAD will be 22. That's a good base for the young core, but I'm not expecting that team to be cup contenders at that point, but they should be on the rise kind of like the Kings circa 2010. But there's also a lot of factor to consider like we have no clue who the coach will be. Are we looking for a stop gap coach like Murray who could only take the team so far, or are we looking for a young coach to grow along with the team. The scouting/development staff need to do their jobs properly too to keep the pipeline fresh.

What my concern is the reporting about Panarin. While he is a fantastic player and probably the most skilled player this team could have since Ziggy. Now I'm not sure if this is just Panarin using us a leverage (surely wouldn't be the first time this has happened), but it sounds like impatience. I think that's my only concern going forward with management.

 

[BallPointHammer]

Brown, Quick and Clifford have maintained their roles as the leaders and heart and soul of the team. Kopitar and Doughty are having their worst seasons ever. What gives with these two? Can they get back on track?

Is it fair to say a core/leadership group of DB, JQ, KC, AK and DD could be good enough to anchor the Kings rebuild despite their respective ages, quality of play and contract situations?

Edit: Do we sort of already have our "bridge" players? After the 2020-21 season the following contracts: Brown 1yr, Quick 2yr, Kopitar 3yr and Doughty 6yr. At that point cap relief would be easier to pull off, expansion takes place and the CBA talks begin.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I guess to answer your question then it becomes so be it. I personally don't see the team being truly competitive throughout the duration of his contract. But I'm also going to ask a question of my own, not just to you but to anyone.

When do people see this team becoming competitive again? As in when do you think we can expect this team to start competing in the playoffs again?

Because a lot of the arguments being made about Kopitar is that he is going to hamstring the team or that he won't be worth the cost which he likely won't be the contract at that point. A lot of people have been throwing out 2023 for some reason. If we want to use 2012 as a barometer, Kopitar was 24 and Doughty was 22. Vilardi will be 23, Kupari will be 22, Hughes/Kakko (fingers crossed) will be 21, JAD will be 22. That's a good base for the young core, but I'm not expecting that team to be cup contenders at that point, but they should be on the rise kind of like the Kings circa 2010. But there's also a lot of factor to consider like we have no clue who the coach will be. Are we looking for a stop gap coach like Murray who could only take the team so far, or are we looking for a young coach to grow along with the team. The scouting/development staff need to do their jobs properly too to keep the pipeline fresh.

What my concern is the reporting about Panarin. While he is a fantastic player and probably the most skilled player this team could have since Ziggy. Now I'm not sure if this is just Panarin using us a leverage (surely wouldn't be the first time this has happened), but it sounds like impatience. I think that's my only concern going forward with management.

It completely depends on our lottery picks over the next two years. If we get incredibly lucky and draft two major impact players back to back, we can be back in contention sometime around 2025 when those players are entering their primes and our cap situation has cleared up.

Once upon a time, Lombardi had Frolov-Kopitar-Purcell as our #1 line of the future. Scott Parse and Patrick O’Sullivan were once considered possible core pieces. Prospects come and go, and deals may present themselves that drastically accelerate a rebuild. But the landscape now isn’t pretty.

It will look a hell of a lot better with Hughes or Kakko, though.

 

[johnjm22]

Brown, Quick and Clifford have maintained their roles as the leaders and heart and soul of the team. Kopitar and Doughty are having their worst seasons ever. What gives with these two? Can they get back on track?

Quick is having the worst season of his career and is probably the worst starter in the league. Kopitar is on pace for 24 goals and 61 points.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I think given his size, hockey iq, skill level, and 2 way play a 36 yr old kopi will still be a good 2C. Hes the least of our concerns now or going forward. Im worried about where we will get a second dman that can fill Voynovs shoes which has been never been addressed. Muzzin was overrated and Martinez is/was a 3/4 dman. And what we do about our 2nd line center who is now maybe the worst in the entire league? And how we get at least avg wingers to surround our centers with. We probably also have the worst wingers in the entire league.

 

[KINGS17]

Maybe if the Kings had traded Carter when they should have the Kings wouldn't have the worst wingers in the league. It's a little late to fix it now other than by drafting well.

 

[King'sPawn]

Maybe if the Kings had traded Carter when they should have the Kings wouldn't have the worst wingers in the league. It's a little late to fix it now other than by drafting well.

Or if the Kings developed better so someone can reliably take his spot, they could have traded him sooner.

 

[KINGS17]

Or if the Kings developed better so someone can reliably take his spot, they could have traded him sooner.

Agree, but isn't the world we live in with the team developing forwards for the Kings. Maybe that needs to change?

 

[kingsfan28]

See guys, we aren't that bad even after dropping 11 straight , the Ducks are worse! :

 

[YP44]

Maybe if the Kings had traded Carter when they should have the Kings wouldn't have the worst wingers in the league. It's a little late to fix it now other than by drafting well.

just for argument sake when should LA have traded Carter?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Your stance on keeping Kopitar and Doughty comes down to whether you think their presence on the roster helps or hurts our rebuild. I’m in the camp that they both ultimately prolong the rebuild if retained, which hurts it, IMO. And the only way they help the rebuild is to accelerate it by moving them while they still are a premium asset.

 

[KINGS17]

just for argument sake when should LA have traded Carter?

Been there done this, but the season after they signed Kopitar and the 1st year of the Kopitar contract as he proceeded to **** the bed right after signing his $80M deal.

 

[King'sPawn]

Agree, but isn't the world we live in with the team developing forwards for the Kings. Maybe that needs to change?

This is the drum I've been beating, friend.

It doesn't matter how many assets we have or who is traded away, or how many top picks we bring in. Until we start seeing quality forwards churned out on a regular basis as we see with goaltenders, we will constantly bank on hope that year n+1 will suck less than year n.

We could have traded Carter earlier for more assets, but I am still wary of the developmental system until we start seeing better results.

 

[DoktorJeep]

I felt the time to tear it up was after the sweep versus Vegas to end last season. Going into that year, I thought they were a wild card contender at best, and what drove the point home was seeing VGK beat the Kings at their own game.

Moving Carter should have been the first step in rebuilding, not Pearson and Muzzin alone and apart. The time was last summer, but they went in the direction we all know.

 

[YP44]

I felt the time to tear it up was after the sweep versus Vegas to end last season. Going into that year, I thought they were a wild card contender at best, and what drove the point home was seeing VGK beat the Kings at their own game.

Moving Carter should have been the first step in rebuilding, not Pearson and Muzzin alone and apart. The time was last summer, but they went in the direction we all know.

I could see this train of thought. Any earlier and it would be hard to move Carter as the thought was he is part of the solution. Considering his numbers till his injury last year I get that thought.

Even after last year though I bought into the hype of full season of carter plus Kovalchuk will help offset Kopitar regression and improve kings offensive depth.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I could see this train of thought. Any earlier and it would be hard to move Carter as the thought was he is part of the solution. Considering his numbers till his injury last year I get that thought.

Even after last year though I bought into the hype of full season of carter plus Kovalchuk will help offset Kopitar regression and improve kings offensive depth.

It made sense to do so, except to the perennially pessimistic. No one saw the defense dropping as much as it has etc, at least, when it was obvious things had gone south in a hurry, there were moves to signal the direction they were going in.

 

[Master Yoda]

The thing with Carter is that he was always an effortless skater. It was always said that he never looked like he was skating hard but he would be flying.

I think the injury has affected his play more than people realize. It was even said before the season that he wasn't 100% and there were questions about his health. Did he just stop working/training hard? Did he just stop caring? I'm thinking it has more to do with the injury than him just not caring all of a sudden.

He was always the one guy on the team that everyone thought would be scoring 20~30 goals until he was 35, and that's why most people bought into the Kovalchuk addition.

I think Carter could still be a guy that can rebound and have a couple more good years before he retires.

 

[KINGS17]

This is the drum I've been beating, friend.

It doesn't matter how many assets we have or who is traded away, or how many top picks we bring in. Until we start seeing quality forwards churned out on a regular basis as we see with goaltenders, we will constantly bank on hope that year n+1 will suck less than year n.

We could have traded Carter earlier for more assets, but I am still wary of the developmental system until we start seeing better results.

I think in addition to rebuilding the prospect pipeline, maybe Blake has some work to do on the organizational infrastructure as well. A lot of these guys are his friends, so it will be interesting to see how Blake addresses it.

 

[YP44]

The thing with Carter is that he was always an effortless skater. It was always said that he never looked like he was skating hard but he would be flying.

I think the injury has affected his play more than people realize. It was even said before the season that he wasn't 100% and there were questions about his health. Did he just stop working/training hard? Did he just stop caring? I'm thinking it has more to do with the injury than him just not caring all of a sudden.

He was always the one guy on the team that everyone thought would be scoring 20~30 goals until he was 35, and that's why most people bought into the Kovalchuk addition.

I think Carter could still be a guy that can rebound and have a couple more good years before he retires.

I think if LA cannot trade Carter they need to address 2nd line C and move Carter to the wing till he finds his game. Games he has missed this year LA has done better in so I do not think our center depth would be negatively effected.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I would implore some of you to go back and look at our 2014 stanley cup roster and then tell me how far we are away from competing for a Stanley cup again. The talent on that team was so underwhelming.

Just goes to show how close we always are with kopitar and doughty. They literally just need a little bit of help to win.

A good UFA or two, a couple of these prospects hitting and we are right back in it. And only because of the unique ability that those 2 players have to carry a team.

 

[YP44]

I would implore some of you to go back and look at our 2014 stanley cup roster and then tell me how far we are away from competing for a Stanley cup again. The talent on that team was so underwhelming.

Just goes to show how close we always are with kopitar and doughty. They literally just need a little bit of help to win.

A good UFA or two, a couple of these prospects hitting and we are right back in it. And only because of the unique ability that those 2 players have to carry a team.

2 big things were Williams and our defensive depth. Voynov sent this team through the spiral it is still on.

 

[KINGS17]

Distance Kings are from contention:

 

[Rusty Batch]

2 big things were Williams and our defensive depth. Voynov sent this team through the spiral it is still on.

I 100% agreed with this. Just dont feel like those are The most difficult things to find

 

[Sleeping Dog]

2 big things were Williams and our defensive depth. Voynov sent this team through the spiral it is still on.

Will NHL ever decide on this eligibility? Wasted another year of his career. If they don’t rule soon, he’ll just go back to KHL and the NHL’s delay tactics will have won.