KHL Expansion Part VIII

[Barclay Donaldson]

There are people who want as much money as possible in European club hockey.

You are not such a guy, I would say. Sadly.

I want to see solid and sustainable growth. Not over-reliance on corrupt, government run companies to bankroll hundreds of millions of rubles every single season. You know what happens when you spend money that you'll never get back? Teams become reliant on it as their single source of income. And what happens when Gazprom and OAO don't want to pay the bill anymore? The team folds and hockey is gone. I'd rather see hockey grow slowly but sustainably then ensure eventual collapse by welcoming "as much money as possible in European club hockey." Communism collapsed because the economic system was continuously weakened until the entire thing gave way. The KHL will eventually face that same fate for the same reasons.

 

[vorky]

@Barclay Donaldson

Tell me, what has been the KHL doing to decrease teams´ dependence on money from state-run corporations? I am asking because it seems you have no idea what the KHL is doing right now. I want you to name all the details of all things the KHL has adopted.

You said, "And what happens when Gazprom and OAO don't want to pay the bill anymore?" I can give you a short list of reality.

SKA was not so wealthy in the early years of the league. But later Gazprom decided to sponsor them with much money. According to your theory, Gazprom should abandon sponsoring them.

CSKA was a very average team in money´s department. What did happen? Rosneft started to sponsor them & the team is one of the wealthiest clubs in the league.

Avangard has always been top team, but now GazpromNeft decided to use more money on sponsoring them. Ohh, your theory does not work.

Avtomobilist has always been very poor team financially. Just a few years ago, UMMC decided to sponsor them and they are among top teams now.

Yes, your theory with sponsoring by a state-run corporation is good, but only in theory. It does not work in the KHL. When one sponsor decides to abandon sponsoring, another one will replace that company.

Why do you think Putin talked to French businessmen? Because they need to secure financing of a French KHL club.

So, it does not mean the clubs should be dependant on state-run corporations. Therefore I am asking you, what has been the KHL doing to prevent such a scenario. Please, provide us with all the details!

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

@Barclay Donaldson

Tell me, what has been the KHL doing to decrease teams´ dependence on money from state-run corporations? I am asking because it seems you have no idea what the KHL is doing right now. I want you to name all the details of all things the KHL has adopted.

You said, "And what happens when Gazprom and OAO don't want to pay the bill anymore?" I can give you a short list of reality.

SKA was not so wealthy in the early years of the league. But later Gazprom decided to sponsor them with much money. According to your theory, Gazprom should abandon sponsoring them.

CSKA was a very average team in money´s department. What did happen? Rosneft started to sponsor them & the team is one of the wealthiest clubs in the league.

Avangard has always been top team, but now GazpromNeft decided to use more money on sponsoring them. Ohh, your theory does not work.

Avtomobilist has always been very poor team financially. Just a few years ago, UMMC decided to sponsor them and they are among top teams now.

Yes, your theory with sponsoring by a state-run corporation is good, but only in theory. It does not work in the KHL. When one sponsor decides to abandon sponsoring, another one will replace that company.

Why do you think Putin talked to French businessmen? Because they need to secure financing of a French KHL club.

So, it does not mean the clubs should be dependant on state-run corporations. Therefore I am asking you, what has been the KHL doing to prevent such a scenario. Please, provide us with all the details!

Half of your post makes absolutely no sense.

I never said they should take away sponsoring. I’m saying that permanently funding big team loses isn’t possible.

Putin talked to French companies probably because he knows Russian government companies can’t subsidize teams forever, so he needs outside sources of money.

They wouldn’t be in trouble if the teams didn’t lose hundreds of millions in rubles. KHL people have been saying for years that German, Swedish, and Western Europe investors will come. Where are they? No where. No one wants to spend money they’ll never make back.

 

[vorky]

@Barclay Donaldson
Again, I am asking you, what has been the KHL doing to prevent such a scenario. Please, provide us with all the details!

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

@Barclay Donaldson
Again, I am asking you, what has been the KHL doing to prevent such a scenario. Please, provide us with all the details!

They've been turning to people from outside the country to subsidize the teams. Or they've been looking to simply switch the government company that subsidizes the team. That's not preventing such a scenario. At the very best it's delaying it. It's a parallel to Perestroika. People think it's the solution, but it's a signal that things are ending sooner than you think.

 

[vorky]

They've been turning to people from outside the country to subsidize the teams. Or they've been looking to simply switch the government company that subsidizes the team. That's not preventing such a scenario. At the very best it's delaying it. It's a parallel to Perestroika. People think it's the solution, but it's a signal that things are ending sooner than you think.

So, you have no idea. Just be honest and say it.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

So, you have no idea. Just be honest and say it.

They aren’t reducing their insane expenses, or diversifying their revenues, or building stadiums big enough to offset their expenses. All they’re doing is replacing their sugar daddy. The only thing I have no idea about is how you’re this irrational. And that’s the truth.

 

[vorky]

They aren’t reducing their insane expenses, or diversifying their revenues, or building stadiums big enough to offset their expenses. All they’re doing is replacing their sugar daddy. The only thing I have no idea about is how you’re this irrational. And that’s the truth.

Good. Now you showed you have no idea about the KHL.

So, I will ask you, why do you discuss the KHL if you are not interested in the league?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Good. Now you showed you have no idea about the KHL.

So, I will ask you, why do you discuss the KHL if you are not interested in the league?

You keep outdoing yourself with incoherent posts. I would be surprised to see the ratio of your posts with rational and understandable thoughts and then completely unreasonable.

I am very interested in the league. A league that at one point considered it a serious possibility to have 60 teams stretching from France to East Asia is one that is worth following. Especially one where a team like SKA has no salary cap and has my than 5 times player salaries payable than all other teams. And then the entire system where the team is a social donation, not a business, blows my mind. While I feel bad that they lose and always will lose their best players to the NHL each season, 15 teams joining or leaving in just over 10 years and needing all hockey operations subsidized makes me feel less bad. I criticize it because it's easy, there's a lot to criticize. But, I'm glad it exists. It wouldn't appear I'm the first person you've thrown incoherent thoughts at on these KHL threads.

 

[vorky]

So, you tell me you do not understand the KHL´s steps. Why they happen when they happen. Why such steps. And what will follow next.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

So, you tell me you do not understand the KHL´s steps. Why they happen when they happen. Why such steps. And what will follow next.

You've been saying that the KHL will get European teams for years now on these threads. I think the lack of a KHL European division speaks for how incorrect you are and were. In addition to all potential ownership groups disappearing the second they look at KHL team financial statements. You've been saying they will compete with the NHL for an even longer time. Nigel Dawes, a player who couldn't even crack a NHL roster before getting sent down, being the second highest point producer in the league speaks for how incorrect you and were. When the third highest point producer, Vadim Shipachyov, did so poorly for Vegas they sent him down to the AHL after 3 games, that's just an icing on the cake. When the 5th highest, O'Neil, had 2 NHL points to his name and was then struggling in the AHL, that's just overkill. If there's anyone here who doesn't understand anything about the KHL, it's you. You've been making exaggerated, false, or incoherent claims for years. Then again, I expect nothing less from east Europe propaganda machine.

 

[vorky]

So again, your accusations.

I explained to you why the KHL European expansion has developed in the way it has developed. You can make your own conclusions if you wish.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

Sport Express reporting KHL will go to Dubai for 2021-22 season, 12,000 seat arena has not even broken ground.

I’m guessing those charters will have money stuffed in the hockey bags.

Дубай планирует присоединиться к КХЛ в 2021 году
A potential club from Dubai has negotiated with the KHL and is about to join the Continental League. About this “SE” said the president of the United Arab Emirates Hockey Federation Vladimir Burdun.
The possible date is 2021. By this date it is planned to build a spacious arena (at least 12 thousand). In Dubai there is an arena for 17 thousand, but it is not adapted for hockey.
There is an arena in Abu Dhabi, which meets the requirements of the KHL, but Abu Dhabi is not a truly tourist and international city, so this option does not suit. According to Burdun, he is in touch with many North American legionnaires of the KHL, and they are all ready to move to Dubai if given the opportunity. (Igor Eronko)

 

[GKJ]

Sport Express reporting KHL will go to Dubai for 2021-22 season, 12,000 seat arena has not even broken ground.

I’m guessing those charters will have money stuffed in the hockey bags.

They could build a 20,000-seat arena if they wanted to and do it for nothing. I'm intrigued by this development, though. Dubai is heavy on tourism.

 

[Rigafan]

Sport Express reporting KHL will go to Dubai for 2021-22 season, 12,000 seat arena has not even broken ground.

I’m guessing those charters will have money stuffed in the hockey bags.

This is the kind of expansion that I would not like to see, completely artificial, where will the Emirati players come from? It'd just be a team named Dubai full of Canadians. Finns and Russians

 

[Albatros]

It would signal that any serious European expansion has conclusively failed, and the KHL has ceased even trying to be a European league.

 

[hansomreiste]

Another sign of how much KHL is dependent on sugar daddies and how politics influence the league more than the sport itself. I hope that's just some stupid speculation a bored journalist came up with. It has absolutely nothing to contribute to the hockey scene. If UAE wants to get better at hockey (which I'm sure is something they don't give a flying f*** about) they can do it in their own country and receive help from international actors. Sending some professionals there to help them set up a good programme is much plausible than bringing in a hollow team into KHL. But when politics and hefty contracts are in the play, what hockey fans in and around Russia want surely needs to take a backseat. Moreover, KHL is not in a position to "develop hockey" in other countries. It is not even a strong or decent one in terms of international influence and sustainability. It just pays a little bit more than other leagues of similar stature and that's it.

 

[Zaschrona]

One have to wonder if it would be just a start of a Gulf KHL division. Money seems to be no problem there - is Dubai just the first team before Abu Dhabi, Doha, Manama, Kuwait, Muscat? KHL could really help the sport to grow there, while they would help a lot by bringing lots of money to help the league to grow. And without a division there the travel would be insane.

So in an ideal world the structure of the league could then look like this:
Western Conference
Tarasov - CSKA, Yaroslavl, Minsk, Sochi, NN, Dynamo St. Petersburg
Bobrov - SKA, Spartak, Dynamo, Helsinki, Riga, Bratislava
Gulf - Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Doha, Bahrain, Kuwait

Eastern Conference
Kharlamov - Kazan, Ufa, Yekaterinburg, Perm?, Magnitogorsk, Chelyabinsk
Chernyshev - Bishkek, Tashkent, Almaty, Nur-Sultan, Omsk, Novosibirsk
Asian - Khabarovsk, Vladivostok, Beijing, Shanghai, Tokyo, Seoul

18 Russian teams, 18 international teams,

Play your division 4 times (20 games) + 2 times the other two divisions in your conference (24 games) + 1 time all teams in the other conference (18 games). Total of 62 games. Top 2 teams from each division + 2 wild-card teams would make the play-offs.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

I thought the KHL was trying to get rid of the joke teams, not add on more. They need to take a few years, stabilize, get their new generation of arenas built, reliable and legitimate revenue streams in order, and go from there. Not add more teams in need of of a sugar daddy to make ends meet.

 

[Rcknrollkillnmachine]

The last thing they need is a Gulf team nor division. It seems any idea of a European league is finished for the KHL if this goes ahead.

 

[Exarz]

I think it's just a matter of an exhibition game. Sure, you could say one thing or another about the KHL management but they're not that stupid

 

[vorky]

Another sign of how much KHL is dependent on sugar daddies and how politics influence the league more than the sport itself. I hope that's just some stupid speculation a bored journalist came up with. It has absolutely nothing to contribute to the hockey scene. If UAE wants to get better at hockey (which I'm sure is something they don't give a flying **** about) they can do it in their own country and receive help from international actors. Sending some professionals there to help them set up a good programme is much plausible than bringing in a hollow team into KHL. But when politics and hefty contracts are in the play, what hockey fans in and around Russia want surely needs to take a backseat. Moreover, KHL is not in a position to "develop hockey" in other countries. It is not even a strong or decent one in terms of international influence and sustainability. It just pays a little bit more than other leagues of similar stature and that's it.

You make conclusions over the unconfirmed report again.

Perhaps you know that there are many people who want to co-operate with the KHL, but it does not mean the KHL is interested in such a co-operation. Of course, the league will always listen to such people. Why not? But to make such conclusions over it? Like really?

 

[hansomreiste]

You make conclusions over the unconfirmed report again.

Perhaps you know that there are many people who want to co-operate with the KHL, but it does not mean the KHL is interested in such a co-operation. Of course, the league will always listen to such people. Why not? But to make such conclusions over it? Like really?

Nothing stops you from speculating about this mysterious European expansion over unconfirmed reports. Why is it a problem when I speak about something that made it to the news? I never said it is going to happen. I'm just saying that I don't like the idea of happening. Moreover, you claim people will be interested in co-operation and KHL will listen them. So what? I'm saying I don't like the idea of cooperating with UAE because it will bring nothing to the hockey scene.

Dude, seriously, you need a break. You are the only person here in this whole section which plays a KHL war in his own mind. There is no "them versus us" here. You don't need to defend KHL from anyone or anything because nobody attacks KHL or anything like that. Not that long ago, you were the main news guy here. Nowadays, nine out of ten of your posts are extremely biased and lunatic. You really don't have to do that.

 

[geri]

i personally would not like team from dubai in KHL, as generally i am not very positive about that region
BUT,
what about NHL? they also have team(s) from regions with no traditional hockey like florida (although in recent years they got a quiet good youth development), or what about las vegas just now?
many NHL teams dont have local guys playing and probably never will..
so IF a team from dubai would join KHL there is actually no difference to a team from las vegas at NHL

 

[Nino33]

i personally would not like team from dubai in KHL, as generally i am not very positive about that region
BUT,
what about NHL? they also have team(s) from regions with no traditional hockey like florida (although in recent years they got a quiet good youth development), or what about las vegas just now?
many NHL teams dont have local guys playing and probably never will..
so IF a team from dubai would join KHL there is actually no difference to a team from las vegas at NHL

The NHL has current players who were born in Florida and in Arizona (and Auston Matthews grew up in Arizona) - does the KHL have current players who were born/raised in Dubai?

And Las Vegas didn't just get a hockey team when the NHL came to town; hockey has been played there for decades Team History at Hockeydb.com - have they been playing hockey in Dubai for decades?