Kevyn Adams GM thread

[haseoke39]

No they shouldn’t. Acquiring talent and doing soemthing with it are two different things. A GM has to be good at both to build a successful team.

Alright, then I hope that's the last time I ever hear you talk about a player having predictably more value in the future than he does right the f*** now.

 

[joshjull]

Listen, I didn't do out and pick a fight with you. You came in here picking a fight with me simply because I said it's too early to judge a guy's success. So if that's not your narrative, leave me alone.

I agree its too early to judge his success. I don‘t take issue with that. But you’ve made a whole bunch of other assertions I have taken issue with.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

I don't get this take at all. We may not be GOOD yet, but we sure as hell don't "suck".

I consider any team on a sub-80-pt pace to basically suck -- even with injuries factored in.

I'm not saying they'll still suck in the future but they need to learn how to prevent so much offense -- it's really important and they're a bottom-5 in the league in that regard.

 

[Djp]

One thing that doesn't get stated enough - Adams should also get credit for sticking with Granato. Don wasn't Adams' hire and he had no previous working experience with him, following the interim phase it would have been easy for Adams to move on from Don and hire "his own guy". I've absolutely roasted previous GMs for their coaching hires, so this is definitely a checkmark in the plus column.

I know there is a loud minority that complains about the coaching both here and on social media, but Granato has been nothing short of phenomenal for the development of numerous core players. His communication skills with the media have also helped tone down a toxic media room from this decade of chaos. The team's record isn't there yet, but I don't think it's long before we turn the proverbial corner.

I’m confused…Kruger was coach when Adams became GM. He got fired thrn Adams hired Granato.

No they shouldn’t. Acquiring talent and doing something with it are two different things. A GM has to be good at both along with others things to build a successful team.

Drafting matters as do trades.

trades are different types..

1. pick/ prospect trades
2. sell of your stars for futures
3 you are the buyer in situation 2.
4. Vet shake up trade

not all GMs are good in all 4 types.

 

[haseoke39]

I agree its too early to judge his success. I don‘t take issue with that. But you’ve made a whole bunch of other assertions I have taken issue with.

I don't f***ing care whether you call it a new rebuild or a continuation of a rebuild. I don't care whether you credit Adams or Botterill for talent of prospects that Botterill acquired and Adams developed. I don't. All I've cared to distinguish is the fact that Adams was not put into a position where his mandate was to sell off everything and go into tank mode while hoarding picks for three years.

That's all my point was. That's all my point was. Because that's the only circumstance where we should be grading a guy based on the good vibes at the bottom of the standings.

Anything I've said about "new" v. "existing" rebuild, or what talent was or wasn't there in 2020, was just in illustration of that point. Adams had a different job in 2020 than Darcy had in 2012, and we should judge him for how he does that job. All the rest of this arguing just feels petty and overwrought.

 

[Fezzy126]

I’m confused…Kruger was coach when Adams became GM. He got fired thrn Adams hired Granato.

Granato was hired by Botterill in 2019 as Krueger's assistant coach. He took on the role of interim coach by default.

 

[Djp]

Granato was hired by Botterill in 2019 as Krueger's assistant coach. He took on the role of interim coach by default.

Adams hired him as head coach

 

[jc17]

Ralph getting fired was the obvious move after the losing streak, but Adams identifying that Don was the guy to stick around, while Steve Smith also found the curb deserves some credit.

I know Smith and Krueger were close, so I wonder if it was a package deal or if Kevyn identified coaching talent.

Ralph getting fired was the obvious move after the losing streak, but Adams identifying that Don was the guy to stick around, while Steve Smith also found the curb deserves some credit.

I know Smith and Krueger were close, so I wonder if it was a package deal or if Kevyn identified coaching talent.

 

[joshjull]

I don't f***ing care whether you call it a new rebuild or a continuation of a rebuild. I don't care whether you credit Adams or Botterill for talent of prospects that Botterill acquired and Adams developed. I don't. All I've cared to distinguish is the fact that Adams was not put into a position where his mandate was to sell off everything and go into tank mode while hoarding picks for three years.

That's all my point was. That's all my point was. Because that's the only circumstance where we should be grading a guy based on the good vibes at the bottom of the standings.

Anything I've said about "new" v. "existing" rebuild, or what talent was or wasn't there in 2020, was just in illustration of that point. Adams had a different job in 2020 than Darcy had in 2012, and we should judge him for how he does that job. All the rest of this arguing just feels petty and overwrought.

No one argued he was tanking and looking to lose for several years like Darcy did. I don’t know why you keep bringing him up.

But Adams without question started selling off pieces of the roster in a tear down after he took full control of the team post Krueger firing. What else would you call trading away Montour, Hall, Staal, Jack, Sam and Risto? While also letting McCabe leave in free agency. The goal was to start over and build a new core group.

But the point you tried to illustrate doesn’t really make sense because you ignored the teardown. Plus confused the upside potential of players with actually having an established player of that type. We came into last season with very little established talent on the roster. But it did have upside potential. We were looking to develop that and see what we had by the end of the season. You keep assuming the good things that happened were a given.

I’ll use the centers to further make my point. We didn’t have a single proven top 9 center to start last season. What we had was two former top 10 picks with top 6 upside (Mitts/Cozens). Neither really had franchise center upside to replaced Eichel. Then we had the wild card gamble with Tage at center. Also not remotely expected to replace Jack.

You’re arguing the only way this group can have success is if it makes the playoffs. Thats not a fair framing. What most of us debating with you are saying is Tage’s emergence as a stud #1 center is an example of a huge success for him personally and the orginization as well. Even if there is more work to be done its fair to celebrate that.

As a post script… They are very lucky Granato’s faith in him was warranted and bore unbelievable fruit. Could you imagine the shape our center group would be in if he failed or was a fraction of the player he currently is.

 

[haseoke39]

No one argued he was tanking and looking to lose for several years like Darcy did. I don’t know why you keep bringing him up.

But Adams without question started selling off pieces of the roster in a tear down after he took full control of the team post Krueger firing. What else would you call trading away Montour, Hall, Staal, Jack, Sam and Risto? While also letting McCabe leave in free agency. The goal was to start over and build a new core group.

But the point you tried to illustrate doesn’t really make sense because you ignored the teardown. Plus confused the upside potential of players with actually having an established player of that type. We came into last season with very little established talent on the roster. But it did have upside potential. We were looking to develop that and see what we had by the end of the season. You keep assuming the good things that happened were a given.

I’ll use the centers to further make my point. We didn’t have a single proven top 9 center to start last season. What we had was two former top 10 picks with top 6 upside (Mitts/Cozens). Neither really had franchise center upside to replaced Eichel. Then we had the wild card gamble with Tage at center. Also not remotely expected to replace Jack.

You’re arguing the only way this group can have success is if it makes the playoffs. Thats not a fair framing. What most of us debating with you are saying is Tage’s emergence as a stud #1 center is an example of a huge success for him personally and the orginization as well.

As a post script… They are very lucky Garanto’s faith in him was warranted and bore unbelievable fruit. Could you imagine the shape our center group would be in if he failed or was a fraction of the player he currently is.

Oh my god, get over it already. How many times do I have to say what my only, only, only point is, before you admit that you agree with it, actually, and are still trying to manufacture problems.

 

[elchud]

If we barely miss the playoffs, if we are 3 points out, it will beg the question...you couldn't use 5 to 10 out of the 20 million to make a better roster?

 

[Fezzy126]

Adams hired him as head coach

Adamas wasn't the one that originally hired Granato to work for the Sabres organization. Why is this point even in question?

 

[Djp]

Adamas wasn't the one that originally hired Granato to work for the Sabres organization. Why is this point even in question?

Because he had the option to hire someone else.

 

[Bendium]

I think you're using benefit of hindsight because of the way he has been playing for Boston to justify your overpayment. I think the deal he actually got was 1 mill to 1.5 mill overpay as it is... and then you want to add another 1 to 1.5 mill on top of that.

That is an incredible risk given his track record both injury wise and performance wise here in Buffalo.

I had the same opinion of resigning Ullmark the day they announced him going elsewhere. Its not a hindsight question. Who was going to be the Sabres goaltender? The answer then, was the same as now. Noone under contract had anything proven. UPL was the only one under contract and still very unknown. You were going to have to overpay any decent goalie to come here or spend to many assets in a trade. You had the cap space to overpay Ullmark and didn't do it. It was an error.

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

I had the same opinion of resigning Ullmark the day they announced him going elsewhere. It’s not a hindsight question. Who was going to be the Sabres goaltender? The answer then, was the same as now. Noone under contract had anything proven. UPL was the only one under contract and still very unknown. You were going to have to overpay and decent goalie to come here or spend too many assets in a trade. You had the cap space to overpay Ullmark and didn't do it. It was an error.

How do you know that the Sabres did not make a higher offer to Ulmark?

I guess I’ve heard the “experts “ surmise it. But are you sure the Sabres didn’t offer a big juicy contract?

Oh and please provide links. Not just “ you know they didn’t” or I heard it from a friend that heard it from a friend that heard it from REO speedwagon

 

[Jimmybarndoor2]

How do you know that the Sabres did not make a higher offer to Ulmark?

I guess I’ve heard the “experts “ surmise it. But are you sure the Sabres didn’t offer a big juicy contract?

Oh and please provide links. Not just “ you know they didn’t” or I heard it from a friend that heard it from a friend that heard it from REO speedwagon

I think the Sabres locker room was bad. No one wanted to stay here. No one. Except KO Skinner and Girgs.

 

[Bendium]

How do you know that the Sabres did not make a higher offer to Ulmark?

I guess I’ve heard the “experts “ surmise it. But are you sure the Sabres didn’t offer a big juicy contract?

Oh and please provide links. Not just “ you know they didn’t” or I heard it from a friend that heard it from a friend that heard it from REO speedwagon

I am not taking this bait. I started this by listing 6 things I thought KA has done great, 2 concerns I have in the future, and the ONE mistake I think he has made. I haven't heard any of the rest of it talked about.

So, I will simply say this. It is KA responsibility to provide the team with adequate goaltending. They have not had that since Ullmark walked. It was KA job to either keep Ullmark or have a viable plan how to replace him. Hoping prospects sign and develop is NOT an adequate goalie plan. Letting Ullmark walk created a big hole, that to this point KA has shown he was not prepared to fix. It was a mistake in my opinion, and continues forward at this point hurting the team, and still does not have a solution in sight. Neither Levi or Portillo should be counted on to sign, or develop into NHL starters. Even if they do, it is not a near-term solution, likely needing a few years of continued development to be ready. If he signs Ullmark, even at a significant overpay, the team has more support, and KA has a lot more options under less pressure going forward. Mistake.

I think KA has done a very good job so far........but he has failed in the goalie column. Thats my opinion.

 

[joshjull]

Because he had the option to hire someone else.

You’re not wrong when it comes to Adams picking him as the head coach.

@Fezzy126 isn’t disputing that. He’s saying the original hiring of Granato was by Botts/Krueger to be an assistant.

 

[Beerz]

I had the same opinion of resigning Ullmark the day they announced him going elsewhere. Its not a hindsight question. Who was going to be the Sabres goaltender? The answer then, was the same as now. Noone under contract had anything proven. UPL was the only one under contract and still very unknown. You were going to have to overpay any decent goalie to come here or spend to many assets in a trade. You had the cap space to overpay Ullmark and didn't do it. It was an error.

I get you..but just because you have cap space now doesn't mean you should spend it if it means it's on the books for 6 years. If im a GM im not paying Ullmark 8 million a year for 6 years based on what he had shown. That just isn't smart.

There was no need to take that risk when the team went into the season with so many question marks because of all the young guys playing. I don't think the organization expected this team to be this high octane and this competitive.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Kevyn nailed the contract negotiations this past off season. In addition to the Thompson and Samuelsson contracts, he avoided giving Olofsson a bloated long term deal for at least 4 or 5 years. Normally you'd expect that type of contract for a 26 year old 20 goal scorer. A contract like that for Victor would look like a boat anchor already.

 

[Djp]

Kevyn nailed the contract negotiations this past off season. In addition to the Thompson and Samuelsson contracts, he avoided giving Olofsson a bloated long term deal for at least 4 or 5 years. Normally you'd expect that type of contract for a 26 year old 20 goal scorer. A contract like that for Victor would look like a boat anchor already.

apples and oranges

on Olofsson….
you figure
Tuch gets resigned
Quinn
Peterka
Skinner till he retires/ contract ends
21 and 22 drafted forwzrd prospects (6 in first 2 rounds)

therr us a large forward pipeline.

you figure he’s more of a bridge to the youth.

if they had focused more on D in the first then I could have seem signed to 3-4 yrs. With them drafting 3 forwards you look ahead to the 24 summer F roster

Tuck, skinner, Thompson,
cozens, peterka, Quinn,
Krebs, Rosen, Savoie, Kulich, Ostlund
bunch of other F prospects

there isn’t room for him nor Mittlestadt.

 

[michaelsaas]

It seems a lot of people on both sides of this argument are conflating a Good GM with a Perfect GM.

 

[Der Jaeger]

If the Bills taught us anything, it's that it is not enough to have a good coach and a good GM. You need both, and they need a shared vision. I think Adams and Granato are at this point. Granato is developing players, and Adams is supporting him by making the moves (or not making the moves) which allow development to happen.

 

[slip]

Kevyn nailed the contract negotiations this past off season. In addition to the Thompson and Samuelsson contracts, he avoided giving Olofsson a bloated long term deal for at least 4 or 5 years. Normally you'd expect that type of contract for a 26 year old 20 goal scorer. A contract like that for Victor would look like a boat anchor already.

Honestly the Thompson and Samuelson contracts have the potential to be the 2 best contracts handed out by a Buffalo GM in perhaps several decades. I had my doubts early on about KA’s ability to GM, but he’s done far more right than wrong. Respect.

 

[Bendium]

I get you..but just because you have cap space now doesn't mean you should spend it if it means it's on the books for 6 years. If im a GM im not paying Ullmark 8 million a year for 6 years based on what he had shown. That just isn't smart.

There was no need to take that risk when the team went into the season with so many question marks because of all the young guys playing. I don't think the organization expected this team to be this high octane and this competitive.

So now we are stretching the Ullmark argument from the 4x5 he signed, to 6x6 for argument, to now needing a 6x8 assumption to try to defend KA. Ok....sure. If it would have taken 8 mil a year for six years, then he should have turned it down. You win!