Kevyn Adams GM thread

[Jacob582]

KA

G
Patience
Sending Bjork to the AHL


B
Patience - Not making some tweeks to roster construction, even using some of the cap space to do so.

U

Not buying Bjork out last summer

 

[Dingo44]

Easy option would be Ullmark extension. This year I wanted Samsonov and Vanecek. Go look at their stats.

I'm not going to look back on every single season and goalie trade that ocurres while Adams has been in charge but we're talking year 3 and it is still a freakshow.

I would also like to add that my post about Adams was really positive and you decided to get stuck on the goaltending part.

From everything I've read Adams did everything he could to the point of putting all their eggs in one basket to get Ullmark to resign and Ullmark decided to go with the Bruins instead. Not sure what else he could have done there.

Neither Samsonov nor Vanecek had good seasons last year which is why Washington pushed so hard to upgrade to Kuemper. Their resurgences - as well as how well Murray has played lately (who Adams did trade for and then was rejected by Murray) - were not guaranteed. And how well does Samsonov or Vanecek play here with this team defense?

I get the positive side as well. I just see the constant complaint about Adams not getting better goaltending - which is true, but that's not all on Adams.

I'm wondering how good our goaltending coach is - is Mitch Korn still a free agent?

 

[Bendium]

I like most of what KA has done. My concerns are:

1. I thought at the time and still think now, that letting Ulmark go was his biggest mistake so far. He has been trying to fill the hole unsuccessfully ever since.

2. I worry he is on a path to be a lot like Darcy, in that he won't make a move even if the team needs it until he finds a way to win the trade. Sometimes the impact of the right player your team needs is greater than the trade value on paper. That said, I appreciate the long term view of waiting for the right player.

3. Along with 2, I worry they will wait too long for Donnie to do magic on struggling players, hoping to turn coal into diamonds before trading them.

That said:

1. Granato!

2. Eichel trade!

3. Building a top analytics department.

4. Risto trade! (spoiled by losing Borgen)

5. Reinhart trade! (How did we get less for Rhino than Risto?)

6. Tage and Sammy extensions.

There may be some missteps, but the overall body of work is MUCH better than we have seen since Darcy was fired. They are committed to a longterm plan and being patient not to make the hurried missteps that have resulted in 13 years of failure.

 

[haseoke39]

He's getting a huge A+ on the Thompson and Samuelsson extensions.

But the baseline expectation for a competent gm inheriting a rebuild that's already got a ton of assets is that he gets the team into the playoffs. You can't credibly grade this era a success until that happens. It's all incomplete until he takes a promising young roster from below average to merely average.

 

[joshjull]

He's getting a huge A+ on the Thompson and Samuelsson extensions.

But the baseline expectation for a competent gm inheriting a rebuild that's already got a ton of assets is that he gets the team into the playoffs. You can't credibly grade this era a success until that happens. It's all incomplete until he takes a promising young roster from below average to merely average.

What?

He started a new rebuild last offseason when he parted ways with Jack, Risto and Sam.

 

[Chainshot]

One thing is that they seem to have continuity in the front office and bench boss, even with their flaws real or imagined. That's a plus. For a guy who looked like a nepotism hire, he's made strides compared to his predecessors and there appears to be stability.

 

[joshjull]

We never find the Kid Line if he signed a bunch of vets. More likely Peterka and Quinn sit than Olofsson and Mitts.

The lack of quality goalies that were available in the offseason has been discussed on here in multiple threads ad nauseum.

Its amazing but not surprising the usual suspects don’t get that.

As for the goalie situation, we‘ve had a enough reports that goalies don’t want to sign here to understand why its been hard. But some just went to rant and pretend that doesn’t matter.

 

[haseoke39]

What?

He started a new rebuild last offseason when he parted ways with Jack, Risto and Sam.

Silly semantics to what end?

He inherited a ten year old rebuild that had a ton of top picks and prospects already, including most of our current top players. That's not like Darcy in 2012. There's a big difference in where the goalposts are for a guy with no blue chips and small prospect volume who has to take a couple years just to liquidate and tank and stock up, versus a guy who has literally a pair of top centers (Thompson and Cozens) and a top defensive pair (dahlin and Samuelsson) in the pipeline when he's hired.

I'm not judging Adams by how well he tanks or stocks up on picks. That job was done. I'm judging him by whether the team climbs the standings.

 

[Fezzy126]

Silly semantics to what end?

He inherited a ten year old rebuild that had a ton of top picks and prospects already, including most of our current top players. That's not like Darcy in 2012. There's a big difference in where the goalposts are for a guy with no blue chips and small prospect volume who has to take a couple years just to liquidate and tank and stock up, versus a guy who has literally a pair of top centers (Thompson and Cozens) and a top defensive pair (dahlin and Samuelsson) in the pipeline when he's hired.

I'm not judging Adams by how well he tanks or stocks up on picks. That job was done. I'm judging him by whether the team climbs the standings.

You may want read the board or social media posts from the past before committing yourself to this. What you'll find are the majority of fans believed the following:

- We had absolutely nothing to show from our previous tank and rebuid, as Jack, Sam, Ullmark, and Risto wanted out.​

- Fans were outraged we used an expansion slot on Tage Thompson. Yes, a f***ing expansion slot.​

- Many believed Dahlin was tracking towards bust, and almost everyone wished drafted Svechnikov or Tkachuk instead.​

- The Samuelsson pick was almost universally loathed, labeled him as slow and not in line with analytics-based thinking puck movers.​

- A year ago the narrative about Cozens was that he wasn't Zegras or Caufield. As little as two weeks ago posters on this forum were still complaining about his stone hands and lack of upside.​

 

[Fjordy]

You may want read the board or social media posts from the past before committing yourself to this. What you'll find are the majority of fans believed the following:

- We had absolutely nothing to show from our previous tank and rebuid, as Jack, Sam, Ullmark, and Risto wanted out.​

- Fans were outraged we used an expansion slot on Tage Thompson. Yes, a f***ing expansion slot.​

- Many believed Dahlin was tracking towards bust, and almost everyone wished drafted Svechnikov or Tkachuk instead.​

- The Samuelsson pick was almost universally loathed, labeled him as slow and not in line with analytics-based thinking puck movers.​

- A year ago the narrative about Cozens was that he wasn't Zegras or Caufield. As little as two weeks ago posters on this forum were still complaining about his stone hands and lack of upside.​

These were some weird people.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Its amazing but not surprising the usual suspects don’t get that.

As for the goalie situation, we‘ve had a enough reports that goalies don’t want to sign here to understand why its been hard. But some just went to rant and pretend that doesn’t matter.

I mean some people also complain about how bad the Sabres powerplay is, and they are 3rd at 29%, and tied for first in powerplay goals at 29

 

[haseoke39]

You may want read the board or social media posts from the past before committing yourself to this. What you'll find are the majority of fans believed the following:

- We had absolutely nothing to show from our previous tank and rebuid, as Jack, Sam, Ullmark, and Risto wanted out.​

- Fans were outraged we used an expansion slot on Tage Thompson. Yes, a f***ing expansion slot.​

- Many believed Dahlin was tracking towards bust, and almost everyone wished drafted Svechnikov or Tkachuk instead.​

- The Samuelsson pick was almost universally loathed, labeled him as slow and not in line with analytics-based thinking puck movers.​

- A year ago the narrative about Cozens was that he wasn't Zegras or Caufield. As little as two weeks ago posters on this forum were still complaining about his stone hands and lack of upside.​

I don't know why any of that is really relevant. My point is that Adams came into an organization with a ton of young talent that he didn't have to tear down to accumulate. So the goalposts for him aren't "tear down for three years and get some picks," as they are for a lot of fresh rebuilds. The goalposts for him are, "take all this talent and build it into an average (ie, playoffs or at least bubble) team."

That's the benchmark of success for him, in this period of his tenure.

I don't know what the meaningful counterargument is, unless you'd like to still be tearing down with this group.

 

[Chainshot]

You may want read the board or social media posts from the past before committing yourself to this. What you'll find are the majority of fans believed the following:

- We had absolutely nothing to show from our previous tank and rebuid, as Jack, Sam, Ullmark, and Risto wanted out.​

- Fans were outraged we used an expansion slot on Tage Thompson. Yes, a f***ing expansion slot.​

- Many believed Dahlin was tracking towards bust, and almost everyone wished drafted Svechnikov or Tkachuk instead.​

- The Samuelsson pick was almost universally loathed, labeled him as slow and not in line with analytics-based thinking puck movers.​

- A year ago the narrative about Cozens was that he wasn't Zegras or Caufield. As little as two weeks ago posters on this forum were still complaining about his stone hands and lack of upside.​

Festivus airing of the greivances.

 

[Fezzy126]

I don't know why any of that is really relevant. My point is that Adams came into an organization with a ton of young talent that he didn't have to tear down to accumulate. So the goalposts for him aren't "tear down for three years and get some picks," as they are for a lot of fresh rebuilds. The goalposts for him are, "take all this talent and build it into an average (ie, playoffs or at least bubble) team."

That's the benchmark of success for him, in this period of his tenure.

I don't know what the meaningful counterargument is, unless you'd like to still be tearing down with this group.

It's relevant because you said he had a bunch of talent, literally no one thought that at the time.

He had a team that was over the salary cap, had underachieved, and the team's core all wanted out. Their pipeline was classified as "shallow" by multiple pundits with zero elite level prospects.

You want to make a counterargument, find one person on the planet that said the phrase "Adams inherited a team with a ton of young talent".

 

[Fezzy126]

Festivus airing of the greivances.

Looking forward to see how the narrative on Quinn shifts over the next several years

 

[Chainshot]

Looking forward to see how the narrative on Quinn shifts over the next several years

There have been several mea culpas already. That may be a hard shift by next month with how that line is playing.

 

[haseoke39]

It's relevant because you said he had a bunch of talent, literally no one thought that at the time.

He had a team that was over the salary cap, had underachieved, and the team's core all wanted out. Their pipeline was classified as "shallow" by multiple pundits with zero elite level prospects.

You want to make a counterargument, find one person on the planet that said the phrase "Adams inherited a team with a ton of young talent".

I'm gonna use a skill that marriage has taught me and ask whether we're actually having a meaningful disagreement or people are just being contentious. My bottom line is what the benchmark of success for this guy is. Are you saying his job is to tear down what he has? That he gets judged by how many futures he acquires while having a mandate to draft high for several years?

I would say no. Whether the pundits agreed or not, he actually had a lot of talent in the organization when he started, and his job was primarily to develop and surround them. Unlike, say, 2012, when the job was really to gut the roster and start from nothing. That's what most fans think of when they talk about a rebuild, because most teams don't do versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 .... A version 2.2 of a rebuild is a very different beast than 1.0.

That's why I won't say this 2.5 years has been a success yet, because his goalposts aren't about doing a nice gut job, they're about building back up.

And frankly, after a decade, the fans deserve to have standards for the team that aren't about getting a nice pipeline or shifting out problems. We deserve to judge the team on its record. That's a work in progress.

 

[MOGlLNY]

I like most of what KA has done. My concerns are:

1. I thought at the time and still think now, that letting Ulmark go was his biggest mistake so far. He has been trying to fill the hole unsuccessfully ever since.

2. I worry he is on a path to be a lot like Darcy, in that he won't make a move even if the team needs it until he finds a way to win the trade. Sometimes the impact of the right player your team needs is greater than the trade value on paper. That said, I appreciate the long term view of waiting for the right player.

3. Along with 2, I worry they will wait too long for Donnie to do magic on struggling players, hoping to turn coal into diamonds before trading them.

That said:

1. Granato!

2. Eichel trade!

3. Building a top analytics department.

4. Risto trade! (spoiled by losing Borgen)

5. Reinhart trade! (How did we get less for Rhino than Risto?)

6. Tage and Sammy extensions.

There may be some missteps, but the overall body of work is MUCH better than we have seen since Darcy was fired. They are committed to a longterm plan and being patient not to make the hurried missteps that have resulted in 13 years of failure.

Adams offered Ullmark the exact amount Boston offered, he didn't want to be here.

 

[toddkaz]

I would give Adams a B-

Great contract extensions but letting the team struggle at goal and defense and then drafting 3 forwards and a goalie in the 2nd round when there was some great defensive prospects on the board.

Strange drafting, great players but didn't fill holes.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I'm gonna use a skill that marriage has taught me and ask whether we're actually having a meaningful disagreement or people are just being contentious. My bottom line is what the benchmark of success for this guy is. Are you saying his job is to tear down what he has? That he gets judged by how many futures he acquires while having a mandate to draft high for several years?

I would say no. Whether the pundits agreed or not, he actually had a lot of talent in the organization when he started, and his job was primarily to develop and surround them. Unlike, say, 2012, when the job was really to gut the roster and start from nothing. That's what most fans think of when they talk about a rebuild, because most teams don't do versions 1.0, 2.0, 2.1, 2.2 .... A version 2.2 of a rebuild is a very different beast than 1.0.

That's why I won't say this 2.5 years has been a success yet, because his goalposts aren't about doing a nice gut job, they're about building back up.

And frankly, after a decade, the fans deserve to have standards for the team that aren't about getting a nice pipeline or shifting out problems. We deserve to judge the team on its record. That's a work in progress.

There was a lot of talent here? When Adams was hired, they only had Dahlin, Eichel and Reinhart. Tage was a bust and St Louis ripped us off. People were indifferent for the most part about Cozens, and then it became “not Zegras”.

Post Adams hiring:

Quinn was reviled as a terrible pick because it wasn’t Rossi, and then it was worse after he didn’t have a strong showing for Canada at the WJC, despite people not knowing his use and only stat watching.

Power wasn’t in the organization, and the Sabres lucked into being able to draft him.

Our G prospects were 6K, Portillo and Johansson.

He then got Hall, who busted hard for the Sabres. And people said he got ripped off getting a 2nd for him (the Kisakov pick).

Risto became Rosen, an unknown 2nd, and Hagg (who became a 6th rounder and they drafted Gustav Karlsson). And people were upset he was kept, because he wasn’t Borgen, and I highly doubt that you’ll find a single Sabres fan today that are of the opinion of Borgen > Rosen + 2nd + Karlsson.

Reinhart became Kulich and Levi.

The Eichel saga dragged on so long that people were so up in arms that they were ready to trade him for a bernmeister return just to be done with it.

It’s completely revisionist to say there was a bunch of talent in the organization. There wasn’t.

 

[Bendium]

Adams offered Ullmark the exact amount Boston offered, he didn't want to be here.

Of course Ullmark chose Boston given even money. Adams had to give him more money and term. Adams didn't do it. He was looking at UPL, Levi, Portillo and thinking they would get there in time, and didn't want to commit 5-6 years to an oft injured Ulmark. Some was also probably part of the old guard purge as well.

Ulmark was the only known starter quantity in the fold. The rest were all "hope." It was a big miss. Say you sign him to 5x6. Even if UPL does well there is not a starter contraversy (what a dream) for a couple years into the contract. If Levi or Portillo push it is also at least 3 years into the contract. Then you have three good goalies with 2 years left on Ullmarks contract, and you trade one of them. Win!

Letting Ullmark walk was a loss.

 

[Zman5778]

Letting Ullmark walk was a loss.

You're assuming KA had a choice in the matter. IMO, Ullmark was done with Buffalo. I think the plan all along from Ullmark's camp was to string Buffalo along and use them to increase other teams' offers.

I don't think Ullmark was ever coming back to Buffalo aside from a Bob-level offer.

 

[Beerz]

Of course Ullmark chose Boston given even money. Adams had to give him more money and term. Adams didn't do it. He was looking at UPL, Levi, Portillo and thinking they would get there in time, and didn't want to commit 5-6 years to an oft injured Ulmark. Some was also probably part of the old guard purge as well.

Ulmark was the only known starter quantity in the fold. The rest were all "hope." It was a big miss. Say you sign him to 5x6. Even if UPL does well there is not a starter contraversy (what a dream) for a couple years into the contract. If Levi or Portillo push it is also at least 3 years into the contract. Then you have three good goalies with 2 years left on Ullmarks contract, and you trade one of them. Win!

Letting Ullmark walk was a loss.

How do you justify an Ullmark contract of that nature?

I just don't see it. Even the one he got was a hefty price given his body of work. To add more?

 

[sabresfan129103]

I think the whole rebuild at this point hinges on on a few things. One of them being if Levi actually pans out. I really do think they're "all in" so to speak on that. If he doesn't then IDK WTF they're gonna do.

 

[Zman5778]

I think the whole rebuild at this point hinges on on a few things. One of them being if Levi actually pans out. I really do think they're "all in" so to speak on that. If he doesn't then IDK WTF they're gonna do.

Right now the way things stand, this rebuild hinges on our ability to defend well as a team. Yes, doing so might result in a slight decrease in the offensive end.

But, I do see Donnie's rationale -- it's often easier to teach kids to go balls-to-the-wall offensively and then rein them in a bit than it is to teach them to be responsible and then open them up.